Confused, almost a quran only, but not.
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giveup I really am confused. I don't know what to believe.
I am a Sunni Syafi'i Muslim from Malaysia, I guess I still am because I still practice the 5 pillars. I've always wondered about the quran only movement for a long time now. From a philosophical point of view, it makes sense. Man is fallible, he makes mistakes, he is corruptible. The only work we have that is divine in origin is the Holy Quran, the word of God, all other works are suspect simply because of their human origins.
This realization is purely from a philosophical, theological perspective of my own, without input from others. This until of course I realize there's a whole movement on this, stumbling on to your website.
I have many many questions, hopefully the brothers and sisters out there can help me out.
How does one pray? Where does one perform pilgrimage? What about Zakat?
The most important question is, from your point of view, is it wrong for me to still practice my rituals of prayer the way I have been brought up? The Shahada, the 5times daily prayer?
It's a big step to take to become a Quran Only. In Malaysia anything that deviates from the mainstream form of Islam, specifically the Sunni Syafi'i madhab is not taken lightly. This not just includes the Quran only practitioners but also Shi'ites and Sufi's. Freedom of religion exists in this country but not towards Muslims. So I tread carefully, I want to know as much as I can before I take this leap of faith, insyallah.
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peace,
How does one pray? Where does one perform pilgrimage? What about Zakat?
The answer is within The Quran. Study it, take it slowly.
The most important question is, from your point of view, is it wrong for me to still practice my rituals of prayer the way I have been brought up? The Shahada, the 5times daily prayer?
I think you answered your question below
I want to know as much as I can before I take this leap of faith, insyallah.
Change your practice to suit your knowledge at the time, i.e. if during your study of The Quran you feel something you practice is wrong, change it to reflect your new understanding.
Always keep the basics in mind.
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Salams,
Thank you for your support and reply. My question still remains, I hope you can answer it, from your point of view is it wrong for me to practice the 5daily prayers, or say the shahada?? Must I abandon my mainstream rituals of prayer?
I dont think so. I still uphold my daily ritual salat every day. You do not need to abandon anything so long as they do not do harm on yourself and others or lead you to idolworship.
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Peace
Welcome Rumi. There are different boards here where you can seek opinions to your questions. If you check there is a salat/zakat section and a pilgrimage section. I thought Malasyia was sympathetic to the movement of people returning to the quran.
Joe
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Peace Rumi,
Welcome to the board. And all I can add to the above is, take your time. No need to follow what others are doing, or not doing for that matter. I think your realization says a lot;
From a philosophical point of view, it makes sense. Man is fallible, he makes mistakes, he is corruptible. The only work we have that is divine in origin is the Holy Quran, the word of God, all other works are suspect simply because of their human origins.
If you truly believe this, then you know that studying quran and taking it to heart, asking God for guidance and help, is all you need. The rest is extra. You want to uphold the '5 pillars' that's really up to you. But try and break them down, see what they mean, are they in harmony with what the God says?.. can they be made so?... or are they the suspect works you talked about.peace
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Salam Rumi. Saya pun dari Malaysia.
We have the same situation. Don't worry, no need to be confuse. Islam come to Malaya in 1400 during the time when the Golden Age has passed and the door for "ijtihad" is closed. Sunni/Syafie version of Islam is passed down to us and it has served well to unite and bring light to Malaya. Even though we have been colonized for 400 years by Portuguese, Dutch and Finally British, it's hard to find any Malay convert to Christian. This show the strength of Muslim solidarity in Malaya.
When we achieve independence, Malaysia inherited a secular and efficient administration from British, but Islam is put at a special place as the "official religion". The Government have done their best to protect muslim in this country from "deviant" teaching especially involving superstitious belief. Unfortunately, most Malays while claiming they are muslim, never read the Qur'an (translation). Fortunately, in the 70s Islamic revival begin in Malaysia where woman start to wear scarf and there are call to return to the Islamic value. But, even then majority of Muslim still does not read the Qur'an, even though they are aware of their obligation as a muslim, they are more comfortable to hear from their religious scholar and dare not to read the Qur'an.
Once you start to read the Qur'an, you will find some contradiction with some long held believe. Example is 262
"Surely those who believe; and those who are Jewish, and the Christian, and the Sabians, whomever of them believes in God and the Last Day and does good work; they will have their reward with their Lord, with no fear over them, nor will they grieve."This verse clearly show that plurality in monotheistic religion is accepted by God. If you ask any ustaz, they will say that this verse is not applicable after prophet Muhammad come. Here you can see this ustaz is denying and manipulating a straighforward verse to suit his own desire.
Now, the situation in Malaysia is quite liberal, we can even see a mufti give an opinion in favor of liberal idea. We also can see the Salafi is gaining ground here and they clash with the syafie traditionalist. If you really want to make a meaningful contribution for Malaysian Muslim, we must act as a moderator between these group and bring them closer to the light of the Qur'an.
Rumi, since you are here, we can discuss more, especially the situation in Malaysia.And If you get confuse, it is better if you join an Islamic NGO/Community. I join an Islamic NGO, I admire them, they strive with their money and their lives. We have discussion, classes, outdoor activity and charity work.
Thanks.
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Salam Rumi, all,
There is always a time when ppl start to do their studies and before they realiase the truth there will be a confusion state where we dont know what to believe in. I believe all of us have gone thru that..well at least I did..and the sad part is that i have no one to talk to about it.
I think the best way to overcome this is to be really objective instead of emosional about it. If your objective is to find the truth then state what resource. And your 1st resource in your list should be the Quran.
However we are encourage to ask ppl who read the book before us if we we are in doubt(1094). Your doubt have to be answerd and not just leave it as it is because Allah will divert people with doubt in their minds(4034). Have trust(tawakal) in Allah, He wont divert someone unless they are disobey Allah's orders(fasiq)(226)- Yang benar adalah daripada Pemelihara kamu, maka janganlah kamu termasuk orang-orang yang ragu-ragu.
ps you may want to try to pick a Literal translation in Bahasa, I would recomend Bacaan (the only literal translation in Bahasa Melayu i knw), which can be found here
www.e-bacaan.com
Happy reading!salam
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Rumi, since you are here, we can discuss more, especially the situation in Malaysia.And If you get confuse, it is better if you join an Islamic NGO/Community. I join an Islamic NGO, I admire them, they strive with their money and their lives. We have discussion, classes, outdoor activity and charity work.
Thanks.Salam Nusii,
What NGO are you attached to? Now im bored being alone. However last ramadhan i meet two friends with similar mind set at my work place. They are helpfull at times. Maybe ill be interested in your NGO, (im in penang by the way)
I know situation in malaysia have changed, recently i read a book by syed akhbar ali, (malaysia and the club of doom). Quite a controversial book from a Sunni stand point i guess. It is a revelation that the book is still selling at major book stores here. If a book like this would come out in the 90s, it will surely get banned..fast..
salam
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Peace to all, thanks for the input, support and replies.
I'd like to address everyones comments, firstly my fellow Malaysians. Nusii, I disagree with your comment that Islam being quite liberal in Malaysia. In my university days overseas we had a visit from one of our politicians a former interior deputy minister, (you know the whole spiel when they go overseas and meet Malaysian students studying abroad). He said that in the capacity of a minister with his portfolio he keeps tabs on Islamic practices in Malaysia, a striking note was that the shiites here are being monitored. If we had a truly liberal form of Islam we would let people practice the religion the way they see fit, not via a government which dictates form of Islam is allowed, Shia Islam is the wrong kind of Islam apparently since it's not sanctioned by the government. Its arrogance when people start saying what kind of Islam, what practices are allowed.
Secondly, on the freeminds.org website books section there's an author by the name of Kassim Ahmad, a Malaysian who writes HADITH A RE-EVALUATION. http//free-minds.org/books/kassim.htm . We can't get this book in Malaysia, not only that the author himself has been labeled an anti hadis, an apostate of Islam, a heretic, even when all he's done is to ask for dialogue with the Islamic authorities, with his main message being to return to the teachings of the holy Quran.
Kassim Ahmad's more recent books have also been banned in Malaysia!!
http//www.mois.gov.my/opencms/export/KKDN/BhgPQ/senaraiharam2006.html
Are these the symptomatic conditions of a liberal Islam being practiced in Malaysia as you claim? Karim Ahmad from my understanding denies the label a Quran only follower. Yet by quoting and examining the various problems with the hadis (hadith) with respect to the teachings of Quran, he's landed himself in quite a predicament. Just the fact that a large number of books banned in Malaysia are religious in nature is troubling for me, I would need to fly to Singapore to be able to read Kassim's books. What the banning of books implies is that you and I, Malaysians as a whole are too ignorant to make up our own minds about these literary contributions, their ideas. It is the government who knows what is best for us and since some of the books banned concern religion, it is the government who know's best on religion, on how it is to be practiced. From the banning of Kassim Ahmads books on re examining the hadith, I guess Malaysia doesn't not look favorably on the Quranist movement.
I can go on and on about this, from how the government treats apostates, to its role in policing khalwat laws, to the politicization of Friday prayer khutbahs.
Saying the situation in Malaysia is quite liberal with respect to Islam would not be my choice of words, I wouldn't associate the conditions here as "liberal".
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Peace Rumi,
Welcome to the board. And all I can add to the above is, take your time. No need to follow what others are doing, or not doing for that matter. I think your realization says a lot;If you truly believe this, then you know that studying quran and taking it to heart, asking God for guidance and help, is all you need. The rest is extra. You want to uphold the '5 pillars' that's really up to you. But try and break them down, see what they mean, are they in harmony with what the God says?.. can they be made so?... or are they the suspect works you talked about.
peace
Thank you for your kind words. I've always believed my realization for a long long time. You see, I had to learn to read the Quran when I was young, it was the thing that Malaysian muslims send their children to do, we call it "mengaji" in Malay (it consist of reciting the Quran in Arabic). Even then at a young age, I've pondered why there was an overwhelming emphasis on reciting the Quran, the overwhelming emphasis on the Arabic. I can say with some certainty that the majority of Malaysian Muslims can and have recited the Quran in Arabic. Personally however I think that reading the Quran, understanding it should have been of greater importance and emphasis. The vast majority of Malaysians do not understand Arabic, so in essence what Malaysian youths do (such as myself once upon a time) recite and chant melodic verses without proper understanding, without meaning. It left me hungry for knowledge, I was quite a dissatisfied and self critical, questioning youth, a pain to my elders and religious mentors. It has been an incredible intellectual journey of discovery since.
I have broken up the 5 pillars according to the Quran, I have been trying to make them in harmony with what the Quran truly dictates, the problem lies with the lack of justification that is to be found for them within the Quran. It is distressing and I fear of being labeled a heretic, an apostate, by family members and friends.
Peace
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Salam Rumi, all,
There is always a time when ppl start to do their studies and before they realiase the truth there will be a confusion state where we dont know what to believe in. I believe all of us have gone thru that..well at least I did..and the sad part is that i have no one to talk to about it.
I think the best way to overcome this is to be really objective instead of emosional about it. If your objective is to find the truth then state what resource. And your 1st resource in your list should be the Quran.
Salam Loli, I don't consider myself to be overly emotional. Confusion lies with what sort of belief structure I should follow. The belief structure given to me, the mainstream Sunni teachings, they are a comfort zone. Is it completely wrong to follow believe them? That's my worry. If that's the case, my parents, my family and friends would be in the wrong. Ultimately it is not up to us mere mortals to judge others, since ultimately we do not know for certainty, to say we do is presumptuous. I am fearful for their fate, as I am for mine in the hereafter. If only life was simpler, the only thing I can do as mentioned by Zenje is ask Allah for guidance and I do.
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I dont think so. I still uphold my daily ritual salat every day. You do not need to abandon anything so long as they do not do harm on yourself and others or lead you to idolworship.
Salam,
By keeping your ritual salat, what does this really entail? Is the Shahadah and Salat an nabi included?
I have a hard time abandoning the shahada since I haven't abandoned it yet, I know from my readings of the Quran, it's not sanctioned, also with the Quran stipulating that we must profess faith in the One God and not call on anyone else. (GOD does not forgive idolatry, but He forgives lesser offenses for whomever He wills. Anyone who sets up idols beside GOD, has forged a horrendous offense.) Quran 448
But boy do my old habits die hard!!!! It's really hard to let this go, its easier for me to let go of salat an nabi than the shahadah. Is it really Idol worship to just attest that the prophet is god's messenger???
I guess this is a question for a different post and thread.
Peace.
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But boy do my old habits die hard!!!! It's really hard to let this go, its easier for me to let go of salat an nabi than the shahadah. Is it really Idol worship to just attest that the prophet is god's messenger???
I guess this is a question for a different post and thread.
Peace.
Dont be too hard on yourself. God is forgiving and merciful.
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Salam Rumi,
welcome to the forum brother !
Is it really Idol worship to just attest that the prophet is god's messenger???
It is not idol worship but hypocrisy !
This has been discussed before here
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=10906.msg114444#msg114444
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=10906.0
Also please see the following articles
http//free-minds.org/articles/hadith/testimony.htm
http//free-minds.org/articles/gods_system/pillars.htm
There is no such thing as "five pillars" according to al-qur'aan. Once I counted more than 15 "pillars"
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=12990.msg107049#msg107049
The above combined with the commandments in 6151-153 lead to more than 20 "pillars" !!
Read the Qur'aan with understanding and ask The God to guide you and be patient and there won't be any confusion anymore !
20114 Then High above all is God, the King, the True. And do not be hasty with the Qur'an before its inspiration is completed to you, and say "My Lord, increase my knowledge."
3918 The ones who listen to what is being said, and then follow the best of it. These are the ones whom God has guided, and these are the ones who possess intelligence.
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Salam Loli.
What NGO are you attached to? Now im bored being alone. However last ramadhan i meet two friends with similar mind set at my work place. They are helpfull at times. Maybe ill be interested in your NGO, (im in penang by the way)
I am not an active member. But personally I think they are the best Islamic NGO in Malaysia. However they are quite exclusive and conservative. You know, their operation is like freemason, they follow the method of Ikhwanul Muslimin of Egypt.
If you are interested to join, you must start with usrah with a senior member. Here we start by discussing that Islam is a way of life and it is our responsibility to 'convey' this message to society. Eventhough they are sunni, their idea is quite liberal than the traditional muslim. Of course you cannot profess you are a qur'an alone, but you can have a lot of benefit from their classes, activity and charity work.
Thanks.
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I tested the waters about Quranist beliefs with my mother. It was scary. I knew it would be hard, I guess it was expected but it is just amazing how much the hadith has influenced positions found within the Quran, even when verses are very much unambiguous. Well, I feel a little bummed out honestly. Quranists in the view of my mother aren't Muslims, because the hadith is vital as it is needed to understand the holy Quran. So much for me trying to be open about it, guess I have to keep my beliefs in secret. Nonetheless, I don't think I can turn back now, I guess this thread is really starting to be one that is documenting my shift in becoming a Quranist.
To my fellow Malaysians, how have you experiences been? I guess Malaysians have to keep a low profile about it huh?
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I tested the waters about Quranist beliefs with my mother. It was scary. I knew it would be hard, I guess it was expected but it is just amazing how much the hadith has influenced positions found within the Quran, even when verses are very much unambiguous. Well, I feel a little bummed out honestly. Quranists in the view of my mother aren't Muslims, because the hadith is vital as it is needed to understand the holy Quran. So much for me trying to be open about it, guess I have to keep my beliefs in secret. Nonetheless, I don't think I can turn back now, I guess this thread is really starting to be one that is documenting my shift in becoming a Quranist.
To my fellow Malaysians, how have you experiences been? I guess Malaysians have to keep a low profile about it huh?
You should not say you do not believe in hadiths. Instead you should say you believe that hadiths exist inside Al Quran.
