Hitting kids
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Don't try and use a twisted Ayah to carry on with a regime of oppression san,
be a peace loving individual, thanks.
3844
"And take in thy, hand/benefit/possession/ favor/ generosity the confusion, and strike it and break not (thy oath)." Truly We found him full of patience and constancy. How excellent in Our service! ever did he turn (to Us)!See its wasn't beating up the person but rather sorting out the confusion.
God Bless.
What do you mean, carry on with a regime of oppression? I have no such intention. )
Thanks anyway, because i noticed my mistake Take in your hand a "bunch" and "strike" her with it and do not break your oath. There was no "her" in the verse. Previously i thought it was a very soft but gentle move (i.e., the emotional message/expression carried without causing any physical pain), considering how they left him (if i got the story right, that is). I still don't get the complete picture but let me take the possibility that it has nothing to do with striking the wife at all. All the better then.
So my correction would be
Re ?the rod? to be "allegorical" (i.e. no belts, hickory switches, paddles, and the like) i may have something to support that from AQ
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Well. No finding about "hitting kids" in AQ, actually. Even with something as important as Salat, we are ordered to command/enjoin our family with patience, not with rod. (20132)
Doubtful content removed. Thanks and pardon me for the confusion. Be a peace loving individual, aye, i want to.
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So what do you do in this Situation?
I was Observing my Cousin and this was my Conclusion.- The Child Wants an Item.
- After a Calm and Polite "No" and a Valid and Simple Logical Explanation why the Item cannot be Purchased, The child still done not Understand, or Rather He MAY understand, but your Valid Logical Points mean nothing to him because His Want is much more Important in his eyes than what you have to say.
3.He KNOWS that He Depends on you to Buy the Item, and He KNOWS that Making a Public Scene will embarrass you in front of everyone, So he Intentionally Threatens to scream and embarrass you unless you give in to his requests. (like a Bank Robber holding Hostages)
4.He Starts Screaming and making a Scene and wont stop until you give in.
You can try to talk to him, explain why you cannot afford it, explain why it is better to not have it, but anything out of your mouth is insufficient at this point to him.
SO what do you do Then? Just let him keep screaming...(Hes going to later be angry at you and hate you for neglecting his wants)...
I would rather, Tell him from the beginning why he cannot have the item.What age? The kid wants what he sees. Why let the kid see what you don't want to get for him?
In fact, I know I am going out on a Limb here...but ....I think Actually Perhaps...NOT Hitting your children could be detrimental.
There are some children Who have NEVER been Hit...and they have grown up to be very Spoiled, Egotistic, and even Possibly Ironically Rebellious and a danger to society in some ways.Wile other children who HAVE been hit a couple times when needed, have grown to be respectful humble people...
Assumption or Where Is The Logic In That?
Slapping/Hitting is of course the quickest and easiest, but is it relevant? Even just plain outburst without hitting is just not relevant.
FYI, i got a nephew too, 2-yrs old (though more like 3-4 if you talk to him). And before him, a niece of mine had problem with uncontrolled behavior and temper-tantrums as well. The problem with forcing kids to conform to our wishes is that with each conflict, more force is needed . Just like addiction (more dose, please). So yes, the niece is now more silent with the force of a father she can't beat. Civilized behavior--at what cost? I have no idea.
I know that little kids though I am talking about like 3 are probabily okay with hitting.
Like forinstance, i seen some parents talk to the little 3 yrold and tell them not to touch something dangerious...
and of course the curious kids will. But then the parent will slap the kids hand. and then the kids will be like "WOAH! Im not going to touch that"...Slapping I feel is like a Simple minded punishment. They are able to Quickly and simply understand Slap=no.
First, I'd minimize dangerous situation. Preparation/prevention is worlds better than "conflict management".
Second, on unexpected situation, I would grab the kid's hand, not slap it. Then while still holding the hand (if he/she unleashed a temper tantrum, then wait until it wears off, with his/her hand still held gently in my hand), i'd make myself much more calm than the kid (neutral face and low, gentle voice), then i'd begin the "explanation". Complete with animate example, illustration (use your head, lips, hands, fingers, body, whatever it takes to explain).
It works for us. This, however, will only work with the person the kid is listening to, so if you don't have that covered, you must work on that first. In my experience, maintaining physical/skin contact while gently communicating the important message, works worlds better than than trying to explain the why's after giving a short momentum with a slap/hit (strong, mild or whatever).
I'm 100% sure the method above won't work with dogs, unless you're the parent of one (or you speak their language).
If they do, surprisingly they KNOW they did something wrong and will go hide...because theyll look at you with the "Oh Sh**" face and go hide. lol
And i'm sure you don't want the situation above (text in bold) happens to your kids.
So, Id say Hitting is Okay with small children. the older they grow the less hitting you do and more Logical Explanation/punishment you do...
Agree?With little children who got used to hitting, the older they grow, the more hitting you'll need to maintain the expected effect. At some point in their life (young or old) the chain must be broken, for them to live without any hidden fear. So why procrastinate until then?
Key Note, Why do Kids always say "I dont know"...its like they act dumb on purpose. They Know what they did. I remember when I was in school, I used to do the same thing at like 7... I remember Id say "I dont know....and look at the ground."....I think they DO know...they are just Ashamed (obviously).. damn kids! laugh
They fear the consequence of saying the truth. This happens on any punishment-based culture/tradition, i think. Don't forget that even kids can predict the future just by reading your face. And your voice, gesture and anything to do with your presence. In short, they as human beings sense other human beings.
What if i challenge you to try no-hit approach to the kids near you?
Peace peace
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Peace,
The mother should discipline the children otherwise it may happen as during this Eid party a while back a little boy was running around unruly and as the mother tried to grab him, all of a sudden the kid slapped her (hard!).
Personally, would correct them right away before they get to their mid-teens; example, while coaching a traveling youth soccer team had my 12 year old nephews along and after getting up to contest a call, soon as I turned around the spoiled one quickly sat in my chair. I asked him nicely to get up; he refused saying
?You snooze you lose!?
Instantaneously pulled him by his ear out of the seat and told him unlike his parents, I will slap him in front of all the people. Anyway ever since that incident he immediately offers his seat in the presence of elders tells his siblings to also get up.
Reminds me of the story of the troublemaker youth?
1874 So they set out until when they met a boy, so he killed him?
1880 And as for the boy, so his parents were believing, so We feared that he oppresses them (with) tyranny and disbelief.
1881 So We intended that their Lord substitutes (for) them better than him and correction and closer (in) relation. -
Peace,
The mother should discipline the children otherwise it may happen as during this Eid party a while back a little boy was running around unruly and as the mother tried to grab him, all of a sudden the kid slapped her (hard!).
Slap or get slapped! << (?)
to me it only shows that something's already wrong during the normal days.
Personally, would correct them right away before they get to their mid-teens; example, while coaching a traveling youth soccer team had my 12 year old nephews along and after getting up to contest a call, soon as I turned around the spoiled one quickly sat in my chair. I asked him nicely to get up; he refused saying
?You snooze you lose!?
Instantaneously pulled him by his ear out of the seat and told him unlike his parents, I will slap him in front of all the people. Anyway ever since that incident he immediately offers his seat in the presence of elders tells his siblings to also get up.
With all due respect sir! That must have been a very important chair!
... but i thought of something funnier handcuff / tie / duct-tape him up to the chair so he could have it for the day. Of course i'd let the team participate peace
P.S. are you a soccer player?
Reminds me of the story of the troublemaker youth?
1874 So they set out until when they met a boy, so he killed him?
1880 And as for the boy, so his parents were believing, so We feared that he oppresses them (with) tyranny and disbelief.
1881 So We intended that their Lord substitutes (for) them better than him and correction and closer (in) relation.o >> kill the troublemaker youth! << wait... for "Khidr" only.
peace
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Peace,
Reminds me of the story of the troublemaker youth?
1874 So they set out until when they met a boy, so he killed him?
1880 And as for the boy, so his parents were believing, so We feared that he oppresses them (with) tyranny and disbelief.
1881 So We intended that their Lord substitutes (for) them better than him and correction and closer (in) relation.& ..........the quran says.......No it doesn't though, just a stupid translation..thank God yay
Here is what i meant
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9599213.0
peace
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& ..........the quran says.......No it doesn't though, just a stupid translation..thank God yay
Here is what i meant
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9599213.0
peace
) i've read that, simple. but is that all? your response to "killing a boy"?
...and i get the "regime of oppression" remark for translating "striking with a bunch of grass"! Do you get your head straight today? (Hey!) laugh
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Slap or get slapped! << (?)
to me it only shows that something's already wrong during the normal days.
He slapped her hard in public and yes during normal days because he was spoiled and knew he could.
With all due respect sir! That must have been a very important chair!
Wasn?t about the chair ? rather about the attitude, the smirk, the language used, and disrespect shown.
Would've done the same over a glass of water or a tooth pick. The item was not the issue.
P.S. are you a soccer player?
Yeah -- soccer, boxing/martial arts, chess, ping pong, pool, golf, physics, supercomputing, history, and a bit math ? lol
o >> kill the troublemaker youth! << wait... for "Khidr" only.
Who mentioned anyone called by that name?
& ..........the quran says.......No it doesn't though, just a stupid translation..thank God yay
Here is what i meant
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9599213.0
peace
If you disagree with what is written in Qur'an then that is your issue. Also before calling things stupid suggest reading in context starting here 1865 where the reason is clearly explained?
so they (both) found a worshipper of our worshippers?
qala lahu moosa - said to him Moses?
He said "That you will not be able (to have) patience with me."
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so he killed him...And as for the boy, so his parents were believing, so We feared that he oppresses them (with) tyranny and disbelief. So We intended that their Lord substitutes (for) them better than him and correction and closer (in) relation.
...that explanation what you were not able (to have) patience on it.
peace
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i've read that, simple. but is that all? your response to "killing a boy"?
...and i get the "regime of oppression" remark for translating "striking with a bunch of grass"! Do you get your head straight today? (Hey!) laugh
I like it the way its screwed peace
But it is worth using the dictionary such as "the quranic dictionary" or the one by lanes.
But if you don't want to investigate- its probably not worth the effort, but saying that i am glad i did.
Good hunting.
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He slapped her hard in public and yes during normal days because he was spoiled and knew he could.
Wasn?t about the chair ? rather about the attitude, the smirk, the language used, and disrespect shown.
Would've done the same over a glass of water or a tooth pick. The item was not the issue.
Yeah -- soccer, boxing/martial arts, chess, ping pong, pool, golf, physics, supercomputing, history, and a bit math ? lol
Who mentioned anyone called by that name?
If you disagree with what is written in Qur'an then that is your issue. Also before calling things stupid suggest reading in context starting here 1865 where the reason is clearly explained?
so they (both) found a worshipper of our worshippers?
qala lahu moosa - said to him Moses?
He said "That you will not be able (to have) patience with me."
...
so he killed him...And as for the boy, so his parents were believing, so We feared that he oppresses them (with) tyranny and disbelief. So We intended that their Lord substitutes (for) them better than him and correction and closer (in) relation.
...that explanation what you were not able (to have) patience on it.
peace
No it isn't stupid but just to me maybe, may be i am stupid to you also , never mind .......
God Bless All.
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He slapped her hard in public and yes during normal days because he was spoiled and knew he could.
Wasn?t about the chair ? rather about the attitude, the smirk, the language used, and disrespect shown.
Would've done the same over a glass of water or a tooth pick. The item was not the issue.
Yeah -- soccer, boxing/martial arts, chess, ping pong, pool, golf, physics, supercomputing, history, and a bit math ? lol
Who mentioned anyone called by that name?
If you disagree with what is written in Qur'an then that is your issue. Also before calling things stupid suggest reading in context starting here 1865 where the reason is clearly explained?
so they (both) found a worshipper of our worshippers?
qala lahu moosa - said to him Moses?
He said "That you will not be able (to have) patience with me."
...
so he killed him...And as for the boy, so his parents were believing, so We feared that he oppresses them (with) tyranny and disbelief. So We intended that their Lord substitutes (for) them better than him and correction and closer (in) relation.
...that explanation what you were not able (to have) patience on it.
peace
The link is a good reading, although only partly translated using the dictionary.
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9599213.0
the reason was good to change the guy,but with force which unfortunately kills the poor fellow and that wasn't the intention of Moses........
proof;
028.014
YUSUFALI When he reached full age, and was firmly established (in life), We bestowed on him wisdom and knowledge for thus do We reward those who do good.
028.015
YUSUFALI And he entered the city at a time when its people were not watching and he found there two men fighting,- one of his own religion, and the other, of his foes. Now the man of his own religion appealed to him against his foe, and Moses struck him with his fist and made an end of him. He said "This is a work of Evil (Satan) for he is an enemy that manifestly misleads!"
028.016
YUSUFALI He prayed "O my Lord! I have indeed wronged my soul! Do Thou then forgive me!" So (Allah) forgave him for He is the Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.See Moses Quivering before God for what had happened- wasn't his intention at all.
The Rod can lead to an unforseen end thus it is ill adviced.
God Bless.
peace
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A word that has made all the differance in 1881, i think;
BADDAL = TO CHANGE AND TO EXCHANGE, but here it is to change the guy.
some other ayah's which may clarify the word usage.
5661
from changing your Forms and creating you (again) in (forms) that ye know not.4823
(Such has been) the practice (approved) of Allah already in the past no change wilt thou find in the practice (approved) of Allah.3323
Among the Believers are men who have been true to their covenant with Allah of them some have completed their vow (to the extreme), and some (still) wait but they have never changed (their determination) in the leasthaven't you ever wanted to streighten out someones mischievous child whose parents are very good!? maybe not for fear of the consequances handshake
But peace
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Salaam
I feel as do my husband that alot ogf parents take it past spanking. I feel that if a child is being abusive to his classmates or teachers etc that he deserves to spanked(hit back) to show that it does not feel good and that it is not the right thing to do. My husband only spanks our children when they have hit someone first. We teach them to be defenders not attackers and that by hitting first that they were being attackers. Alot of parents take hitting beyond a parenting spanking and will punch, kick and throw and beat the child up I am totally against that but I do advocate spanking in a loving parenting matter in moderation only when child is doing some serious bad aggresive hurtful behaviour. -
Salaam
I feel as do my husband that alot ogf parents take it past spanking. I feel that if a child is being abusive to his classmates or teachers etc that he deserves to spanked(hit back) to show that it does not feel good and that it is not the right thing to do. My husband only spanks our children when they have hit someone first. We teach them to be defenders not attackers and that by hitting first that they were being attackers. Alot of parents take hitting beyond a parenting spanking and will punch, kick and throw and beat the child up I am totally against that but I do advocate spanking in a loving parenting matter in moderation only when child is doing some serious bad aggresive hurtful behaviour.Be very very careful with that. I don't know how that's related to stuff like BDSM but childhood experiences do get deep-rooted in the psyche--more than most ppl are conscious of... Why i related "spanking" to BDSM... well, you might want to know a bit about this "interpersonal relationship" they feel about being the punisher and the punished. Goes deep, doesn't it? And there's a lot more to it...
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Peace be upon you,
Is hitting kids in Islam condoned? >(
Hitting kids IMO is just plain cruel, a slap lasts a second, the physical pain lasts a minute, but the emotional pain lasts a lifetime. '(
peace
I got slapped a lot as a kid, no emotional pain here. In a matter of fact when I got slapped it put me in my place - as opposed to my two younger brothers ,whom my parents never use physical pain on, they're disrespectful and just plain mean kids, especially the youngest one. A slap would sit well every ones in a while.
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I got slapped a lot as a kid, no emotional pain here. In a matter of fact when I got slapped it put me in my place - as opposed to my two younger brothers ,whom my parents never use physical pain on, they're disrespectful and just plain mean kids, especially the youngest one. A slap would sit well every ones in a while.
well Br.
I wouldn't even say its okay, especialy if you live in england;
I know someone who tried that, hit his kid ,the kid told a friend and the friend told the teacher the teacher called in the social services the social services brought the police the police took the man and locked him, whilst the child was taken away by the social services . the man went to the main jail until the kid interviewed by his dad's solicitor said he will not bring charges against his dad and the police had to dropped all the charges.
I know another such family where the dad got locked up and then got freed but the children are in the custody of the social services.
simple message , don't use physical violence, learn to use reasoning.
I know of another young lad who got hit with a frying pan and know is partially mental.
And as i gave the story above , Moses tried to streigten out a young guy but accidently killed him and had to run away from Egypt-a mighty lesson for us all-i think.
peace to you.
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well Br.
I wouldn't even say its okay, especialy if you live in england;
I know someone who tried that, hit his kid ,the kid told a friend and the friend told the teacher the teacher called in the social services the social services brought the police the police took the man and locked him, whilst the child was taken away by the social services . the man went to the main jail until the kid interviewed by his dad's solicitor said he will not bring charges against his dad and the police had to dropped all the charges.
I know another such family where the dad got locked up and then got freed but the children are in the custody of the social services.
simple message , don't use physical violence, learn to use reasoning.
I know of another young lad who got hit with a frying pan and know is partially mental.
And as i gave the story above , Moses tried to streigten out a young guy but accidently killed him and had to run away from Egypt-a mighty lesson for us all-i think.
peace to you.
Frying pan is just a bit to far. I'm not saying parents should use real strength to put the kid into a lot of pain - a slap on the cheek will make it a little red for a few minutes then its back to normal - but u don't want another one so u behave, lol. But if i had kids i would never kick their ass or hit them seriously - that's just wrong.
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I once came across an old Persian Proverb, which said 'the man who does not beat his child, will beat his breast', and I found this on the BBC website, if you scroll down they usually have quotes from various places, strange to see this on a BBC website. My opinion is artificial punishment doesn't work, kids will ask what's that supposed to mean, especially boys, girls yes you don't have to beat them and it is wrong to do so, but sit them in the corner and this will suffice, boys on the otherhand, like the old Arabs argued, 'what good is an offspring whose only concern is beauty and is not any good at war' which you find stated in the Quran, referring to female children, but boys will fight, if there is two of them they will fight, to hit them isn't all to bad as long as no malice is intended, in that no weapons were used or any other object apart from flesh. Just in order to discipline them, some children are fearful of a grown up even shouting at them not even hitting them, these are experiences with my older brothers children. Give them the freedom, but guide them and provide correct discipline. My dad went berserk on me when I got caught smoking, but there was no mental scar, just love that someone cares enough about you to not see you ruin yourself.
peace
Seek guidance from God, and be pleasing unto Him.
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especially boys, girls yes you don't have to beat them and it is wrong to do so, but sit them in the corner and this will suffice, boys on the otherhand, like the old Arabs argued, 'what good is an offspring whose only concern is beauty and is not any good at war' which you find stated in the Quran, referring to female children, but boys will fight
Are you suggesting girls are by nature more well-behaved and easier to discipline than boys? That's not true at all ...
I think physical punishment is always wrong. And slapping the face is a big no-no imo, it's humiliating. (
Reasons not to spank
Spanking is hitting, and hitting hurts physically, emotionally and socially.
Hitting people is wrong ? and children are people, too.
Children who are spanked are more likely to be aggressive. This can lead to other problems, like bullying.
Spanking can result in fear, not respect. A child who fears a parent may learn to hide behaviour and lie rather than trust that parent to guide and teach.
Spanking may get a quick reaction, but next time you may end up hitting harder. And when you?re angry and stressed, it?s easy to injure your child.
Spanking doesn?t teach the right lesson. It shows a child that hitting is a way to solve problems.
http//www.toronto.ca/health/children/discipline.htm
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Are you suggesting girls are by nature more well-behaved and easier to discipline than boys? That's not true at all ...
I think physical punishment is always wrong. And slapping the face is a big no-no imo, it's humiliating. (
I agree any form of slapping to humiliate the other person is wrong, put some actions are not based on this premonition, it is hard to understand the will, the intention and the action. We are all not computer programs that can go wrong, in some instances people just do out of love not hate, thinking if we admonish the person the person will sooner regard his/her actions as wrong, and make the will to change them. Sometimes it is a case of humiliation, like for example the punishment for fornication or adultery, certain stripes, but they supposed to be performed ceremoniously not in order to exact pain and to torture the person, as Rashad teaches.
I'm just saying kids do not understand much more than sibling rivalry and selfishness, if you think all forms of hitting and I'm not talking of spanking, or torture or sadism, but if all forms of hitting is wrong, I seem to feel if children among themselves fight, then if they get hit then they cannot argue against it, but if they do not fight and get hit then there may be a case to answer to. Fear in children may be a good thing than a bad, they may try and hide things from the parents, but who cares, as long as there is respect for them. To honour your parents and to be obedient, as the Quran teaches. And if your parents remain constant then you too will try to turn in the same direction.
Nowadays , everyone seems to be looking for their own gratification, rather than trying to solve weaknesses and ill informed judgements. I can only talk through experience of the children from my older brothers, I have no children, but I recognise ego, I recognise selfishness, and jealousy on the part of my eldest brothers children. These have never been hit by any member of our family, on film they look cute but in real life you will understand they are made of something other. But they start crying if a grown up raises their voice to them, but will play fight or really fight forever.
With my second oldest brother his two boys, soon to be joined by a third there is sometimes even violence against the elder sibling by the second one, to the extent of wacking the other with the hard part of the toy light saber, and scratching and pulling hair. With these my brother tries to discipline without hitting them, by putting them on the naughty corner or trying to make them say sorry. But they had really bad experiences at a nursery and now they have tantrums as if they are being tortured or worse like something terrible has happened. At such an early age too, I had tantrums when I was 22-23 when I got detained in a mental hospital. But now while there parents are away at work others in the family take turns to look after them, like my wife and my mum.
If it is an act of love we will understand, if it is an act of hatred it can have certain repercussions.
what about when they sedate people for days, or put them on horrible anti-psychotics or detain them for ages or a long time. Who will lose it, same with these children who were taken from their homes and parents and given to complete strangers to look after. Locked up for 9 hours a day.