no miracles?
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Peace Aaron
I meant 56.
Agree on the purification and good that you brought the issue on root JNB. From the use of the derivatives in the Quran the meanings that I found were distant, distance (not necessarily meaning far) also I guess ?side?. I did not find any connection to sex as some people and lexicons indicate. Thanks for the clue.
I can not agree on a mental Salat or only on mental purification . I believe salat and purification are both physical and mental according to the Quraan.
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Agree on the purification and good that you brought the issue on root JNB. From the use of the derivatives in the Quran the meanings that I found were distant, distance (not necessarily meaning far) also I guess ?side?. I did not find any connection to sex as some people and lexicons indicate.
strange isn't it?
I can not agree on a mental Salat or only on mental purification
what do you agree on?
I believe salat and purification are both physical and mental according to the Quraan.
how so? now having established that you don't agree with the meaning of jnb as relating to sexual intercourse what do you infer we are being told then?
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Peace Aaron
It?s not strange really but the all too familiar case of misunderstood Quranic words infiltrating in to the language with the wrong/misunderstood meaning. Then the carnival starts; linguists inventing roots, derivatives, genders and start grammar and linguistic rules and then pre date the word few centuries before the Quraan.
Like I said Salat has its physical aspects. My definition of salat, according to the Quraan, is reaching out. Which can also mean connect or connection and it?s done for the remembrance of Allah. Time, tone of reciting, standing are the physical aspects. I have not seen evidence from the Quran for the canonical, structured, synchronized 5 times salat of traditionalists including the 2,4,4,3,4 rakahs and the fard and the sunna , different recitations and actions including bowing and prostrating. My understanding is remembrance of Allah has to be mind as well as body.
I am still not certain about zakat mentioned with salat many times in the Quraan. Can this be mental purification achieved from salat or purification by belief , good deeds and repentance.
I honestly did not fgure out the connection you indicated between JNB in 443, 56 and the non physical salat. Can you please explain your understanding in detail.
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here's a small tidbit...
"maintain the prayer and give charity"
vs
"establish the connection and bring forth the evolution"
remember that the divine is one... and into "adam" was blown the ruwh... therefore a portion of the oneness is within us all... therefore we are all part of the oneness... therefore we must establish our connection to said oneness... this will bring forth evolution
I honestly did not fgure out the connection you indicated between JNB in 443, 56 and the non physical salat. Can you please explain your understanding in detail.
i would like to explain it in detail for you but honestly i have not yet worked out all the details
perhaps something along the lines of purifying your might, purifying that on which you stand that supports you, purifying that facet which you present, and thus if you are distant (from god, of course) then elevate yourself.
hope that helps a little )
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remember that the divine is one... and into "adam" was blown the ruwh... therefore a portion of the oneness is within us all... therefore we are all part of the oneness... therefore we must establish our connection to said oneness... this will bring forth evolution
rotfl rotfl rotfl
So part of that oneness will be barbecued in hell?
rotfl rotfl rotfl
i would like to explain it in detail for you but honestly i have not yet worked out all the details
brickwall brickwall brickwall
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i don't know ahmed, why don't you let me know when you get there?
Do you want me to go to hell?
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personally i don't care that much what you do
usually in my experience with such self righteous people they are alot more "self" than "righteous"
enjoy yourself mr "native arabic speaker free from mistakes and totally not guilty of following any sort of conjecture"
anyways... does anybody that actually counts have anything to ask, say, or otherwise contribute? feel free )
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The metaphorical and logical meaning of Noah living with his people for 950 years, is that his message lived with them for 950 years, and that after 950 years a new messenger came.
As for Surah 18 the cave, is in nature and language is very metaphorical, I believe it cannot be taken literally. Please see for example QXP at www.ourbeacon.com or the translation of Muhammed Asad who also beautifully explained it, see www.islamawakened.org for Muhammed Asad's translation and explanation.
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Well well well;
The thread is locked which was started by me, Ok; no problemo, Ahmad already predicted that.
So Arnold would you like to answer my questions now
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What is a Miracle?
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How did you arrived at the conclusion that there are no miracles mentioned in Quran?
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What is "Duwaa"?
Arnold wrote
This is also why the Quran rejects the idea of miracles. As miracles would mean deviating from the roads, and thus deviate from its original Goal.
I only want to Know how did you arrive at this above conclusion of yours "Quran rejecting idea of Miracles"?
which some of our so called free-minds did not liked. -
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Dear Arnold I would also like to know
You wrote
The Malikah listen to Allah without any rebellion, as it is Allah who writes these Laws into the fabric of the Universe.then you wrote
This is also why Iblis is called a Malikah. As Iblis comes from Balasa, which means 'something in despair and frustration'. It refers to our rebellious side, the side that wants to go against the Laws, wants to go against our Ultimate Outcome.
So Malikah is a force,lawof gravity etc. etc. who listen to Allah without any rebellion as Quran states it
Quran
To GOD prostrates everything in the heavens and everything on earth - every creature - and so do the Malaika; without the least arrogance.But then you wrote Malikah is "Iblis" which is our rebelious side o o
So what is Malikah according to you becuase Quran tells us that
Quran
They reverence their Lord, high above them, and they do what they are commanded to do.Our rebelious side "Iblis" does not do as commanded and always rebels, therefore disobeying Allah, so either You are wrong Or I misunderstood becuase Quran cannot be wrong.
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personally i don't care that much what you do
Hold on, I will feed your statement in my lie detector device
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'I dont know, it came back that your statement is a clear cut lie, I guess Santa won't come to you next Xmas
usually in my experience with such self righteous people they are alot more "self" than "righteous"
LOL, I have seen many of those who fake their humbleing (self righteous ) so they earn a bit of a crowd, there is a lot of them on FM btw
enjoy yourself mr "native arabic speaker
LOL, it came to a point in the past when I realized that a lot of so called Muslims on this web site suffer from a high degree of envy towards my Arabic flunecy, you and moderator tay confirmed it in the last few days
well, keep it envy
free from mistakes and totally not guilty of following any sort of conjecture"
sounds like you think a lot about me, well you should not because I dismissed ya and now seeing the amount of envy you have, your dismissal can never be reveresed
anyways... does anybody that actually counts have anything to ask, say, or otherwise contribute? feel free )
Another non sense by you magi, you are http//free-islam.com/extraimages/dismissed5.gif
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So Malikah is a force,lawof gravity etc. etc. who listen to Allah without any rebellion as Quran states it
QuranThis is a common misconception, that the Malaikah (Angels) are forces of nature, like gravity, wind, etc.
All of these notions are false and have no basis in the Holy Quran. On the contrary, we read
Praise be to Allah, Who created (out of nothing) the heavens and the earth, Who made the angels, messengers with wings, two, or three, or four (pairs) He adds to creation as He pleases for Allah has power over all things (351)The Angels are clearly beings, which have wings, ranging from two to four pairs.
Whoever is an enemy to Allah and His angels and apostles, to Gabriel and Michael, Lo! Allah is an enemy to those who reject faith (29
There are many other verses which prove that Angels are not the forces of nature, but are actually intelligent beings which Allah created to discharge various other-worldly functions, including the delivering of revelation to man.
Also, there is not a single verse which says that Iblis (Beelzebub) is a Malak (Angel). On the contrary, Iblis is clearly identified as a jinn in the Holy Quran
Behold! We said to the angels Bow down to Adam They bowed down except Iblis. He was one of the jinns, and he broke the command of his Lord. (1850)
You see, Angels submitted without question to Allah's command, but Iblis, who has free will and was NOT an Angel, did not submit to the command.
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peace
angels according to the Quran
http//19.org/index.php?id=91,552,0,0,1,0about the noah thing again. ok, so maybe he didn't live 950 years, but how long did it take him to build that boat? i assume he wasn't alone and i don't know where did they get the wood at that time in the desert.
and where did the water come from? it's a desert. did it rain? i mean, at least the water in the desert must be some kind of a miracle.
but if there's a good explanation for that too, i'd love to hear it. -
peace
there's no such things as "angels" and the quran never mentions such creatures, no matter how cute and happy they may seem. And Yusha, the quran says we must lower our wings to our parents, does that mean we have wings too? Or maybe, just maybe, "wings" is being used metaphorically there?
I have never seen angels. I have never seen anyone live for 950 years. I've never seen a sea split into two, or a stick turn into a snake. I haven't, and no one who has ever lived over the past few millenia has ever seen anything like it.
And I've read a lot of history books, and all the people in them have LAST NAMES. Why do Adam, Abraham, Noah, Imran, Jacob, Jesus all have just one name? -
there's no such things as "angels" and the quran never mentions such creatures, no matter how cute and happy they may seem. And Yusha, the quran says we must lower our wings to our parents, does that mean we have wings too? Or maybe, just maybe, "wings" is being used metaphorically there?
I have never seen angels. I have never seen anyone live for 950 years. I've never seen a sea split into two, or a stick turn into a snake. I haven't, and no one who has ever lived over the past few millenia has ever seen anything like it.
And I've read a lot of history books, and all the people in them have LAST NAMES. Why do Adam, Abraham, Noah, Imran, Jacob, Jesus all have just one name?Hello all
Again an ignorant trying hard to mislead young Muslims with non sense and lies, see what he said above ? the quran says we must lower our wings to our parents,?, now I will prove to you that The Quran never said so, this means whoever said the above is a clear cut ignorant and what he says should only resides in the rubbish bin
Now we know that in any language there are different meaning words that have the same bloody identical letters, this does not made the two words one, or a meaning of one can be swapped with the other within any context, this is ridiculous, I agree it will be harder to know what the word means if we have identical letter words, but this confusion will only occur if you study the word on its own after stripping it from its sentence, only ignorant do that and it applies on any language for sure, not just Arabic, let me prove my point with the word ?Janah?
The word can mean many things
- Sort of a location or a place, like A HOSPITAL WING, in fact we the Arabs use the same word ?Janah? to refer to a hospital wing ?a Place? , in this case its use is mostly in singular format, unless we are talking about many hospital wings at the same time but as far as I know it is very rare even in the English language, therefore you will find its use in such context most (if not all) the times in a singular format, this is what the verse you brought in means metaphorically "a place of respect and kindness" and many other verses indeed mean the same, it means ?an area of? as far as the context goes, let?s look at a few verses that gives us that context which is the only one to control the meaning of the identical letters words as I explained earlier
Move thy hand into thy bosom, and it will come forth white without stain (or harm), and draw thy hand close to thy side (to guard) against fear. Those are the two credentials from thy Lord to Pharaoh and his Chiefs for truly they are a people rebellious and wicked.
(32)
-> See, the word Janah in here is referring to a place ? draw thy hand close to thy side ?, it is also worth noting that the word is singular, therefore it can't mean the literal wing, because we need bloody two wings at least to fly. Remember what the ignorant said about the Quran, ? the quran says we must lower our wings to our parents,?, see, he said ?WINGS?, a plural while when it is used as a metaphor it has to be singular as we have seen above in 2832, we will also see that in regard to the parents verse he still got it totally wrong.
-> Can I ask everyone a question?, how many wings the Boeing 747 has?, hmmm please don?t say two, because it also has another two at the back, i.e. it has 4 wings to fly, the bottom line is, simply you need TWO WINGS at least to physically fly
In the following example I will bring the 3 most popular translations
YUSUFALI And lower thy wing to the Believers who follow thee.
PICKTHAL And lower thy wing (in kindness) unto those believers who follow thee.
SHAKIR And be kind to him who follows you of the believers.
(215)
-> Again in the above verse the word Janah must be referring to a place or an area, like the top part of the body, the torso being lowered, it is only a metaphor to show respect and kindness, it can?t mean the literal wing that is used for flying because we need at least TWO WINGS to physically fly, the word Janah here is singular as you can see, so from the above 3 translations, I will throw Yusuf Ali and Pickthal ones in the rubbish bin and will uphold Shakir?s one because he understood the context perfectly. Please remember what mister lobster said about the Quran , ? the quran says we must lower our wings to our parents,?, see, he said ?WINGS?, a plural while when it is used as a metaphor it has to be singular as we have see above in 26215, sounds like we have another fallacy that is common on FM web site, the fallacy is simply considering the plural as singular, sort of like the Tutty Fruity fallacy (considering apples identical to mangos) that is very popular of FFI web site, I must make up a name for the FM fallacy of considering singular words as plural, what you guys think of a name?, hmmm, how about the Sin-Plural fallacy?, looks good to me
An identical example to the above is below
YUSUFALI Strain not thine eyes. (Wistfully) at what We have bestowed on certain classes of them, nor grieve over them but lower thy wing (in gentleness) to the believers.
PICKTHAL Strain not thine eyes toward that which We cause some wedded pairs among them to enjoin, and be not grieved on their account, and lower thy wing (in tenderness) for the believers.
SHAKIR Do not strain your eyes after what We have given certain classes of them to enjoy, and do not grieve for them, and make yourself gentle to the believers.
(8
-> See how we have to throw Yusuf Ali and Pickthal translations in the rubbish bin and will uphold Shakir?s one, the word Janah is again singular,
Hey everyone can an airplane fly with one wing?, Remember what the ignorant said about the Quran, ? the quran says we must lower our wings to our parents,?, see, he said ?WINGS?, a plural while when it is used as a metaphor it has to be singular as we have see above in 1588, again we will also see that in regard to the parents verse he still got totally wrong.
Another identical example is this
YUSUFALI "Now draw thy hand close to thy side It shall come forth white (and shining), without harm (or stain),- as another Sign,-
PICKTHAL And thrust thy hand within thine armpit, it will come forth white without hurt. (That will be) another token.
SHAKIR And press your hand to your side, it shall come out white without evil another sign
(22)
-> What is not identical though is why the hell Yusuf Ali and Pickthal didn?t translate the singular word Janah as "wing" as they did in all the previous verses? , it seems they sensed that many Muslims will throw their silly translation for the other two verses in the rubbish bin I guess. But again can you see that the word is singular, i.e. a metaphor to indicate a place. Remember what the ignorant said about the Quran, ? the quran says we must lower our wings to our parents,?, see, he said ?WINGS?, a plural while when it is used as a metaphor it has to be singular as we have see above in 2022, we will definitely see that in regard to the parents verse he still got totally wrong.
Let?s look at an example where the word Janah MUST mean wings to fly with, we should expect it not to be singular the least
There is not an animal in the earth, nor a flying creature flying on two wings, but they are peoples like unto you. We have neglected nothing in the Book (of Our decrees). Then unto their Lord they will be gathered.
(3
-> See, the word Janah is dual ? ?, ?Bi Janahaihi? haha, so it can mean the literal meaning of wings because we need two wings at least to fl, anmd the verse is telling us about BIRDS THAT FLY ? nor a flying creature flying on two wings,?, ? ?, but mister ignorant wants it to be plural when it is used as a metaphor, so he has to manipulate his flawed translation to successfully mislead the misinformed young Muslims, remember what he said ? the quran says we must lower our wings to our parents,?, while we expect now that it has to be singular because it is a metaphor, we will see later if mister manipulator is truthful or not regarding his use of the word ?WINGS? in the parents verse.
Now let?s look at a new meaning for the word ?Janah? with a dummah on the first letter pronounced "Jonah" that was used 24 times in the Quran to express a totally different meaning, this will make it by far the common meaning of the word Janah
It is no sin in you that you enter uninhabited houses wherein you have your necessaries; and Allah knows what you do openly and what you hide.
(29)
-> 24 times the word was used to mean ?a sin?, therefore this is a clear evidence that the word can mean many things, what worth noting is this, when it is used to express a place or an area of something or a sin it always said in SINGULAR form as seen above, while for the literal meaning of flying it has to be at least DUAL as we have seen in 638, this is confirmed when we look at the verse describing the angels wings
Praise be to Allah, Who created (out of nothing) the heavens and the earth, Who made the angels, messengers with wings,- two, or three, or four He adds to Creation as He pleases for Allah has power over all things.
(1)
-> Subhan Allah, this verse should demolish the silly argument presented by many Arabic language ignorant on this web site, firstly when Allah described the angels He stated that they have ? ?, ?Ajniha? ?WINGS?, in plural, ? ? i.e. ? Who made the angels, messengers with wings,?, secondly, He even stated the number of those wings STARTING WITH THE NUMBER TWO ? two, or three, or four?, ? ?, see, you need at least two wings to fly, that is why the angles must be a flying creature.
Now let me ask you all, if Janah in 351 means something else but wings, sort of a metaphor of power, kindness, respect etc etc, why the hell you need 2, or 3 or 4 powers, kindness, respects, etcs etcs?, this is funny.
Finally here the same word Janah expressed as a verb and clearly it means heading to a direction or inclining to, it can?t mean to fly
And if they incline to peace, then incline to it and trust in Allah; surely He is the Hearing, the Knowing.
(61)
Now let?s look at the parents verse and we should see clearly how he got it wrong
YUSUFALI And, out of kindness, lower to them the wing of humility, and say My Lord! bestow on them thy Mercy even as they cherished me in childhood.
PICKTHAL And lower unto them the wing of submission through mercy, and say My Lord! Have mercy on them both as they did care for me when I was little.
SHAKIR And make yourself submissively gentle to them with compassion, and say O my Lord! have compassion on them, as they brought me up (when I was) little.
(24)
-> There is no doubt that the word Janah can?t mean ?wings of flying? in this verse, can you guess why?, well simply because it is singular ??, ?Janah?, ?WING?, remember what the ignorant said ? the quran says we must lower our wings to our parents,?, he made it plural, looks like the Sin-Plural fallacy, but that was not his only mistake, he also claimed the wings mentioned are OUR WINGS, i.e. ?The Human Wings? but the verse never said OUR WINGS, it said, , ?Janah Al Zul?, i.e. literally ?The Wing of Al Zul? not the wing of a human as mister ignorant claimed, so it has to mean something else, clearly the most accurate translation must be SHAKIR, because he is smart enough to come up with a translation that does not confuse his non Arabic speaking Muslim brothers and sisters ? And make yourself submissively gentle to them with compassion?
There you have it, what should be noted that the above is an extract from a reply I made a few months back on my web site to the same person who is a member on my web site, yet he continues to promote his non sense and ridiculous claims against our religion, this does not mean he is an ignorant any more, he only insists to stay ignorant, his ignorance was exposed and cleared yet he insists on it, this means he is an enemy to our religion and his claims must be fought an exposed by any sincere Muslim, I have created a module on my web site to expose the shameless that I meet on cyber world mostly from FFI web site, however lobster must be added to that list which I will do today so young Muslims around forums be warned of his deceptions and manipulations, don?t forget that he likes calling himself Allah as well, , he is the most kafir with no shame calling himself a Muslimthat I have ever seen.
Salam all
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The metaphorical and logical meaning of Noah living with his people for 950 years, is that his message lived with them for 950 years, and that after 950 years a new messenger came.
Hello all
It time to expose another malice ignorant who insists on his ignorance despite being refuted using the Arabic language of the Quran that he claims to believe in
See what he said above ? his message lived with them for 950 years?, by looking at the Arabic verse we will see clearly that the above can never be true even metaphorically.
And certainly We sent Nuh to his people, so he remained among them a thousand years save fifty years. And the deluge overtook them, while they were unjust.
(14)
-> See how the verse started ? ?, ?Wa Laqad Arsalnaa Nuhan Ila Qawmihi?, i.e. ? And certainly We sent Nuh to his people,?, the verse never said that a message was sent, it says clearly that what was sent is Nuh, if it is the message that was sent then it has to be like this ? ?, ?Wa Laqad Arsalanaa Al Zikr Ila Qawm Nuh?, i.e. ? And certainly We sent Al Zikr to Noah?s people? , I chose the word Zikr to represent the message as alleged by Arnie due to the fact that the verb ?Labatha? is masculine in the following sentence that should be talking about what was sent, ? ?, ?Fa Labatha Fihum?, i.e. remained among them, i.e. ?What was sent remained among them, therefore what was sent MUST BE MASCULINE, I could not work out any other masculine word to represent the message other than ?Zikr?, even if there is any other words like ?Waeed? ?Warning? which is masculine etc etc, this argument can never be accepted because non of these words were mentioned as being the one to be sent, what was sent was already told to us in the first 3 words in the verse, here it is again, ? ?, ?Wa Laqad Arsalanaa Nuha?, i.e. ? And certainly We sent Nuh?, i.e. the masculine verb ? ? ?Labatha?, ?Remained? is about what was sent, i.e. Nuh was sent and he remained among them 950 years it can?t be anything other than that whatever the amount of manipulations and surgeries those so called Arabic experts are telling us
Here is the ironic part of all this, Arnie claims to be a believer but he refuse TO BELIEVE THE ABOVE CLEAR ARABIC WORDS WHILE TELLING US HE IS AN ARABIC EXPERT and the words means something else, if this is one off this is fine, but you will see him refusing adamantly to believe all other miracles in the Quran yet he calls himself a believer, what a joke
Salam dunk all
http//free-islam.com/extraimages/slamdunk.gif
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Thank you for the explanation Ahmed. Shakir's translation certainly makes sense.
But my point wasn't that humans have wings, I can see that we don't. My point was that in that verse, "wings" or "wing" is being used metaphorically, or that word is being used in such a way that it doesn't mean wings with feathers which are used to flying. I suggested that maybe, just maybe it's being used similarly in the "angels have wings" verse.
Can you please explain that one? Does it say that these angels have wings like birds?
Nice slam dunk, btw.
peace!this is the "ignorant" comment I made
And Yusha, the quran says we must lower our wings to our parents, does that mean we have wings too? Or maybe, just maybe, "wings" is being used metaphorically there?