Who built the kaaba that is in Mecca?
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Peace bro Hamsa,
You beat me to it !!! )
There is one more relevant sign
4142 No falsehood could enter it, presently or afterwards; a revelation from a Most Wise, Praiseworthy.
Believe me, if The God had not protected His message and allowed falsehood to enter it, our fate would have been no different than the followers of Jesus and Moses. At least we know with certainty what the truth is and what the falsehoods are because of the protected message, and can still follow with certainty the straight path and the true examples of the messengers.
Salaam bro Tanveer,
Thanks, and there are countless to reflect. Thanks to God He has saved me from one more Shirk and I pray for others as well.
Thanks )
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Peace all,
Would someone please clarify the following
It seems to me that the following verses are about the people of prophet
2382 They say What! When we are dead and become dust and bones, shall we then be raised?
Only pagans didn't believe in life hereafter, as for I know christians and jews did believe in it.2383 Certainly we are promised this, and (so were) our fathers aforetime; this is naught but stories of those of old.
qstn If no warner came to them before Prophet Mohammed then why did they say that our forefathers were also promised the same?2384 Say Whose is the earth, and whoever is therein, if you know?
2385 They will say, "To Allah!" say "Yet will ye not receive admonition?"
qstn If no warner came to them before prophet Mohammed then how did they know everything belongs to Allah? See also Soorah az-Zukhruf (43) 9, Soorah az-Zukhruf (43) 87 and Soorah al-Ankaboot (29) 63.Read 2385-91 as well.
366 That you may warn a people whose fathers were not warned, so they are heedless.
323 Or do they say He has forged it? Nay! it is the truth from your Lord that you may warn a people to whom no warner has come before you, that they may follow the right direction.
2846 And you were not on this side of the mountain when We called, but a mercy from your Lord THAT YOU MAY WARN A PEOPLE TO WHOM NO WARNER CAME BEFORE YOU, that they may be mindful. 2846.
Thanks
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AOA
I do not know if there were left any true believers or not but why the enemies of Islam couldn't destroy it completely is because of God's true promise to save His message
159 Surely We have revealed the Reminder and We will most surely be its guardian.
Let me see from a fanciful theory (now it is being quoted as though it is fact-just look at your above statement) that enemies of Islam overwhelmed the true believers and destroyed every thing converted a building in Mecca into the Kaaba. Overnight rewrote the entire Muslim History. Oh yes they were so powerful that only did the destroy the Muslims in their own region but the entire planet so that not a peep could ever come out. Made Hitler seem Like Mother Theresa. Whats even more astonishing that until you Guys now with infinite wisdom and insight into the past no one had even vaguely noticed this event for 1400 years. There is famous saying that common sense is not very common...is amply demonstrated by this site.
I noticed that the comaprison with Hadith and Jesus appear to have been conveniently dropped...As Ahmed seems to have predicted about your very selective use of points when cornered just ignore and raise another completely irrelevant point i.e create enough smoke to hide your beyond fantasy land theories.
Regards
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salaam brother,
Well, I can understand your position, but brother when people did not listen to the prophet how can they listen to you and me? Signs of God couldn't help Pharoah to believe in God, they couldn't help people of Saleh, they couldn't help people of Moses and they still worshiped the idol. And there are many other examples where people failed to see clear signs of God. We can try to convey the messsage only. Rest is upto God and only He can guide, we can only convey.
And honestly, I do not know what happend to the believers, I only know that God has promised to save His Message and that is enough for me.
Thanks for your reply, may God accept our efforts to understand His Message.
Salaam
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Peace brother Hamsa,
2382 They say What! When we are dead and become dust and bones, shall we then be raised?
2383 Certainly we are promised this, and (so were) our fathers aforetime; this is naught but stories of those of old.From the second part of the sign "this is naught but stories of those of old", it is obvious that the first part of the sign "Certainly we are promised this, and (so were) our fathers aforetime" is being said sarcastically, like yeah right yeah
2384 Say Whose is the earth, and whoever is therein, if you know?
2385 They will say, "To Allah/the god !" say "Yet will ye not receive admonition?"The pagans believed in the god but only after setting up partners, like Allat etc. whom they thought were daughters of the god.
12106 And most of them will not believe in God except while setting-up partners.
Even the pagans had a notion of there being THE GOD, but they also set up partners with that god. This notion probably comes from the internal compass that is present in everyone (see 3030).
3030 So establish yourself to the system of monotheism. It is the inclination that God has nurtured the people on. There is no changing in God's creation. Such is the pure system, but most people do not know.
The misunderstanding arises from not translating Allah to its meaning "the god". Please see the following
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=11105.msg106231#msg106231
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Peace bro Tanveer,
Thanks for your reply, however both of my questions are not answered, without a wahy no one can know there is a one Creator THE GOD, not everyone believes in a god so compass doesn't work. For the first question its not showing any sarcasm please read the Arabic text and see the context as well.
Lets see how others interpret it.
Salaam
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Salaam bro Hamsa,
without a wahy no one can know there is a one Creator THE GOD, not everyone believes in a god so compass doesn't work.
The compass works perfectly, it's some people who don't bother to look at it
For the first question its not showing any sarcasm please read the Arabic text and see the context as well.
Do you think that the pagans did not use sarcasm to make fun of the message ? "This is naught but stories of those of old", the THIS/"HAATHA" clearly refers to what was said just before it making it sarcastic.
Sure, let's see what the others have to say about this.
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The compass works perfectly, it's some people who don't bother to look at it
Yes, the pagans bother to look at it and it worked for them. But they bother more than required I think thats why compass broke and they believed in other gods as well. Ah, our compasses ;D
Do you think that the pagans did not use sarcasm to make fun of the message ? "This is naught but stories of those of old", the THIS/"HAATHA" clearly refers to what was said just before it making it sarcastic.
They are accepting that their forefather were also promised the same (but nothing happend), they are denying resurrection and saying these are stories of old because same thing was promised to their forefathers as well, so they are saying that these are same stories actually. So its not a sarcasm in here at all.
Thanks
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Peace bro Tanveer,
Thanks for your reply, however both of my questions are not answered, without a wahy no one can know there is a one Creator THE GOD, not everyone believes in a god so compass doesn't work. For the first question its not showing any sarcasm please read the Arabic text and see the context as well.
Lets see how others interpret it.
Salaam
Salaam Hamsa
Why, without wahy one cannot know there is one God? They do, and did, they may not know a god they can't perceive. Warners usually tell them who God is, not just there is God. People worshiped nature or its components, people, statutes...all this show that the concept of a god could be there. Warners come to clarify and correct this concept. they can even believe in another life (Ancient Egyptians, Greeks, Incas, old Africans religions...).
I do not see any contradictions in these verses.
In fact, my problem is different I do not know how the prophet was sent to people to whom no warner was sent before. This contradicts the fact that he was sent to the whole world whether they had warners before or not.
This could also be the basis of Christians (or at least Copts in our region) who believe that Muhammad was sent to people who did not have a Warner before, but since they have one (or two) they are not concerned. They believe in Muhammad as (our) warner, and Jesus as (their warner).
So, was the prophet sent to people who were warned before or not? Why?
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Salaam Samia
Why, without wahy one cannot know there is one God? They do, and did, they may not know a god they can't perceive. Warners usually tell them who God is, not just there is God. People worshiped nature or its components, people, statutes...all this show that the concept of a god could be there. Warners come to clarify and correct this concept. they can even believe in another life (Ancient Egyptians, Greeks, Incas, old Africans religions...).
So you mean people are born with a raw/wrong concept of god and prophets come to correct it? Also I said THE GOD and not gods. People always believed in gods and prophet came to tell them that there is only one GOD creater of everything and everything belongs to HIM. The people of prophet had the same concept they believed everything belongs to Allah. Also It is very clear in the verse they said, our forefathers are also promised the same.
I do not see any contradictions in these verses.
I am sorry but followers of hadith also see no contradiction in hadith and you know it very well.
In fact, my problem is different I do not know how the prophet was sent to people to whom no warner was sent before. This contradicts the fact that he was sent to the whole world whether they had warners before or not.
This as well.
This could also be the basis of Christians (or at least Copts in our region) who believe that Muhammad was sent to people who did not have a Warner before, but since they have one (or two) they are not concerned. They believe in Muhammad as (our) warner, and Jesus as (their warner).
Does it matter what christian believe?
So, was the prophet sent to people who were warned before or not? Why?
Prophet was sent to everyone, and quran also asks people of the book to believe in quran.
Thanks for your reply.
Salaam
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So you mean people are born with a raw/wrong concept of god and prophets come to correct it? Also I said THE GOD and not gods. People always believed in gods and prophet came to tell them that there is only one GOD creater of everything and everything belongs to HIM. The people of prophet had the same concept they believed everything belongs to Allah. Also It is very clear in the verse they said, our forefathers are also promised the same.
Salaam Hamsa
Well, if you mean if people need "wahy" to believe in God; I would say yes, with exceptions.
I am sorry but followers of hadith also see no contradiction in hadith and you know it very well. This as well.
So, the analogy is that, hadithists think there are no contradictions in hadiths, but there are, and I see there are no contradictions in these verses but there are?
Then that's your problem, not mine. Try to figure out how verses of the qur'aan are contradictory.Does it matter what christian believe?
Did I say it does, or this is what you understood from an example I used to explain what I meant? It seems the example did not work.
Prophet was sent to everyone, and quran also asks people of the book to believe in quran.
So, what about the verses you quoted saying that he was sent to people to whom warners were not sent before?
If you believe he was sent to everyone, and you have no problem with verses you quote, what was your question then?
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In fact, my problem is different I do not know how the prophet was sent to people to whom no warner was sent before. This contradicts the fact that he was sent to the whole world whether they had warners before or not.
So, was the prophet sent to people who were warned before or not? Why?Hello Samia
For the question that is puzzling you, here is my take on it
Let's say today is 1/1/2007, in about 150 years or less from now about 1/1/2150, every single human on earh will be replaced, i.e. all 7 billions (or whatever the number is ) who are living right now in every inch on earth MUST BE DEAD in about 150 years, so the whole earth population will be replaced with no expception to any human, that means the Quran statement is 100% accurate because the last menssenger that was sent to the people was about 500 years prior, so the people who was living at Mohammad time, NEVER EVER RECEIVED A WARNER
Salam
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Then that's your problem, not mine. Try to figure out how verses of the qur'aan are contradictory.
I am trying to undertand them, however haven't seen any satisfying reply. May God help.
Did I say it does, or this is what you understood from an example I used to explain what I meant? It seems the example did not work.
Yes I couldn't get.
So, what about the verses you quoted saying that he was sent to people to whom warners were not sent before?
I dont know.
If you believe he was sent to everyone, and you have no problem with verses you quote, what was your question then?
Yes, I believe prophet was sent to everyone, but what those verses mean I dont know.
salam
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Salaam,
It seems quite logical that the people of prophet actually didn't receive any warner before, but they said 2383 Certainly we are promised this, and (so were) our fathers aforetime;. Unless its not a lie, their forefathers received warners not them, but what about this
366 That you may warn a people whose fathers were not warned, so they are heedless.
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Salaam,
It seems quite logical that the people of prophet actually didn't receive any warner before, but they said 2383 Certainly we are promised this, and (so were) our fathers aforetime;. Unless its not a lie, their forefathers received warners not them, but what about this
366 That you may warn a people whose fathers were not warned, so they are heedless.
I understand it as "they were warned, but did not listen to the warning, so they were not warned". In Arabic, I do not think there is a verb as "yuntatharu" which would give this meaning, so the same verb is used for the passive and the participle.
The verses that follow made me think of this understanding367 they deserved the punishment as they do not believe.We put around their necks iron collars reaching to the chins....
Then there is the example (3613) of the man who advised his people to accept what the messengers came to tell them....
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Salaam
I understand it as "they were warned, but did not listen to the warning, so they were not warned". In Arabic, I do not think there is a verb as "yuntatharu" which would give this meaning, so the same verb is used for the passive and the participle.
The verses that follow made me think of this understanding367 they deserved the punishment as they do not believe.We put around their necks iron collars reaching to the chins....
Then there is the example (3613) of the man who advised his people to accept what the messengers came to tell them....
Why dont you take literal meanings? I am thinking how can I udnerstand these verses if I take literal meanigns and dont look at history of hadith and without adding my own words?.....
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Peaple of prophet didn't receive any warner before him. 2846, 323
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Their forefathers also didn't receive any warner. 366
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People of prophet said, their forefathers received the same promise. 2383 (if they are not lying I dont know)
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They already believed in Allah as creator and Lord of everything in the earth and heavens. az-Zukhruf (43) 9, Soorah az-Zukhruf (43) 87 and Soorah al-Ankaboot (29) 63. 2385-91
May God guide.
Thanks
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Salaam
Why dont you take literal meanings? I am thinking how can I udnerstand these verses if I take literal meanigns and dont look at history of hadith and without adding my own words?.....
Just how I am not taking literal meaning? And who is adding words or looking at history of hadith? I explained what I understood and why, from the verses that follow. Anyways, thanks for your input.
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Salaam Hamsa
I think the Messenger was sent amongst the predominantly Arabic speaking pre dominantly Nabataean people living east of the Jordan River and the Peninsula. The reason for using ?pre-dominantly? in both accounts being there were Arabic speaking Jews and Christians and Aramaic/Greek speaking Nabataeans. I think whoever who was not a Jew or a Christian was known as a gentile and the Messenger was sent amongst them. The Nabateans, with the large Jewish Population living amongst them and the influence of Christianity backed by the powerful Roman Empire and also due to contacts between the Arabs and the Romans would be familiar with the teachings they refer to as promises. The promise people say they received does not mean that there has been a Warner or Messenger sent by Allah amongst them. The concepts of these promises are in the teachings of Judaism and Christianity as well.
The verses do not say the Messenger was only for his people.
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Just how I am not taking literal meaning? And who is adding words or looking at history of hadith? I explained what I understood and why, from the verses that follow. Anyways, thanks for your input.
I have just asked the question and not really added anything, but thanks to you sis that you explained, though I am not in agreement at the moment. I'll have to see other occurances where prophet talk to his people and I let the quran explain itself.
Thanks again.
Salaam
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Salaam Hamsa
I think the Messenger was sent amongst the predominantly Arabic speaking pre dominantly Nabataean people living east of the Jordan River and the Peninsula. The reason for using ?pre-dominantly? in both accounts being there were Arabic speaking Jews and Christians and Aramaic/Greek speaking Nabataeans. I think whoever who was not a Jew or a Christian was known as a gentile and the Messenger was sent amongst them. The Nabateans, with the large Jewish Population living amongst them and the influence of Christianity backed by the powerful Roman Empire and also due to contacts between the Arabs and the Romans would be familiar with the teachings they refer to as promises. The promise people say they received does not mean that there has been a Warner or Messenger sent by Allah amongst them. The concepts of these promises are in the teachings of Judaism and Christianity as well.
The verses do not say the Messenger was only for his people.
So is history important to well explain the verses of quran? How can we understand those verses if we dont use history at all?
Salaam