Who built the kaaba that is in Mecca?
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I always wondred, why is the Kaaba so important? Wasn't it once a pagan shrine?
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the story of him building a black cube with pagan symbols on it still doesn't make sense
Can you please elaborate?
(with your own words, not a direction to the article)
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http//www.indigogroup.co.uk/edge/paphos3.gif
http//members.aol.com/Sokamoto31/hatshepsut.jpg
peace Al Quraishi,
if you've ever gone to Mecca for Hajj, you must have seen these symbols there. The first is the black stone of aphrodite, the goddess of fertility, and the second is an example of a phallic symbol from Egypt. What are they doing there?
and what's up with the flowers on the feet of abraham? that's very pagan too.
what's all this pagan stuff doing in the center of Monothiesm, Mecca? -
peace lobster.....
Where about is the phallic symbol from egypt located in mecca? near the kaaba? and do you have photos for the flowers on the feet of abraham?
Has there ever been historical data about the kaba? who built it? when? when was the black stone put into place? when was its silver vulva shaped frame put on it? does anyone have this sort of info? when was "maqam ibrahim" built/discovered?
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peace ay,
here's a picture of a penis being stoned. I thought I'd just post the link.
http//www.hasanpix.com/data/media/57/HS2002c57i357.jpgI couldn't find a close up picture of the footprints where you could see the flower pattern. I remember Ayman posting pictures of this stuff on another thread, I'll try to find them for ya.
and I don't know anything about it's history, except that it was a pagan shrine, and regardless of what the hadith say, it never changed. -
peace lobster,
thanks for the pic - but this is old - now the stoning of the penis is no longer stoning a penis - it is a big wall....or 3 big walls... there is a small pic here www.altmuslim.com/perm.php?id=1851_0_25_0_C44
i dont know when they changed them though!to be honest i think the phallic symbolism that was there, was lost on the saudi government.... and the vast majority of people....
oh also i forgot to add... please do look for the image of the flowers on the footprints!
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peace
Yeah, the people who the pilgrimage and all the rituals don't know what these symbols are, or that they even exist. But they're there.
I tried to find a better pic on google, but here's a pic Ayman posted (look at his post on the page)
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=13210.570 -
By the way, Layth's article, "where was mohammed?" is also relevant to this question. And that goes well with lots of the directed context/audience said so many times in the quran like "O Children of Israel" and "O people of the Scripture".
http//free-minds.org/articles/history/moh.htm
As for my own understanding of "who" actually built the one at Mecca, I think these verses might refer to them
9107 And there are those who establish a temple to do harm and cause rejection, and to divide between the believers, and as an outpost for those who fought God and His messenger before. They will swear that they only wanted to do good, and God bears witness that they are liars.
9108 Do not maintain in it ever. A temple that is founded on righteousness from the first day is more worthy that you maintain in it; in it are men who love to be cleansed. And God loves the cleansed.
9109 Is one who lays his foundation on obtaining righteousness from God and His acceptance better, or one who lays his foundation on the edge of a cliff which is about to crumble, so that it crumbled with him into the fires of Hell? God does not guide the wicked people.
9110 Such a structure that they erect will continue to cause doubt in their hearts, until their hearts are severed. God is Knowledgeable, Wise.May God Guide
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agentxxx - i don't know if any of that information is based on any outside verified archaeological proof, but i think it's just history based on the bible...
think about it now... if mecca wasn't a place, but a word, as some say... then was ur a place? was jerusalem a place?
were any of these words that we now take as place names really meant to be places or were they concepts? who knows, but i personally don't rely too much on biblical history
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Peace bro Zidane,
As for my own understanding of "who" actually built the one at Mecca, I think these verses might refer to them
9107 And there are those who establish a temple to do harm and cause rejection, and to divide between the believers, and as an outpost for those who fought God and His messenger before. They will swear that they only wanted to do good, and God bears witness that they are liars.
9108 Do not maintain in it ever. A temple that is founded on righteousness from the first day is more worthy that you maintain in it; in it are men who love to be cleansed. And God loves the cleansed.
9109 Is one who lays his foundation on obtaining righteousness from God and His acceptance better, or one who lays his foundation on the edge of a cliff which is about to crumble, so that it crumbled with him into the fires of Hell? God does not guide the wicked people.
9110 Such a structure that they erect will continue to cause doubt in their hearts, until their hearts are severed. God is Knowledgeable, Wise.Thank you for the excellent understanding bravo
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peace Aaron,
agentxxx - i don't know if any of that information is based on any outside verified archaeological proof, but i think it's just history based on the bible...
Yes bro, this information from Encarta is based on the bible.
think about it now... if mecca wasn't a place, but a word, as some say... then was ur a place? was jerusalem a place?
were any of these words that we now take as place names really meant to be places or were they concepts? who knows, but i personally don't rely too much on biblical history
That is exactly what I want to find out?the purpose of this thread is to understand and try to resolve some of the confusions relating to such issues.
peace
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peace Zidane,
thank you for the link bro.
9107 And there are those who establish a temple to do harm and cause rejection, and to divide between the believers, and as an outpost for those who fought God and His messenger before. They will swear that they only wanted to do good, and God bears witness that they are liars.
9108 Do not maintain in it ever. A temple that is founded on righteousness from the first day is more worthy that you maintain in it; in it are men who love to be cleansed. And God loves the cleansed.
9109 Is one who lays his foundation on obtaining righteousness from God and His acceptance better, or one who lays his foundation on the edge of a cliff which is about to crumble, so that it crumbled with him into the fires of Hell? God does not guide the wicked people.
9110 Such a structure that they erect will continue to cause doubt in their hearts, until their hearts are severed. God is Knowledgeable, Wise.Wow. I have never pondered on these verses ?in relation with KAABA??
Traditionally these verses are explained in connection to some ?MASJID-A-ZARAR? which was eventually demolished by the prophet??.so I need some time to understand before I fully agree with bro tanveer.peace
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By the way, Layth's article, "where was mohammed?" is also relevant to this question. And that goes well with lots of the directed context/audience said so many times in the quran like "O Children of Israel" and "O people of the Scripture".
http//free-minds.org/articles/history/moh.htm
As for my own understanding of "who" actually built the one at Mecca, I think these verses might refer to them
9107 And there are those who establish a temple to do harm and cause rejection, and to divide between the believers, and as an outpost for those who fought God and His messenger before. They will swear that they only wanted to do good, and God bears witness that they are liars.
9108 Do not maintain in it ever. A temple that is founded on righteousness from the first day is more worthy that you maintain in it; in it are men who love to be cleansed. And God loves the cleansed.
9109 Is one who lays his foundation on obtaining righteousness from God and His acceptance better, or one who lays his foundation on the edge of a cliff which is about to crumble, so that it crumbled with him into the fires of Hell? God does not guide the wicked people.
9110 Such a structure that they erect will continue to cause doubt in their hearts, until their hearts are severed. God is Knowledgeable, Wise.May God Guide
Salam (Greeting) Zidane
I don't understand what you mean, is what you are saying that 9107-110 are talking about Al Masjid Al Haram?
Thanks
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Salaam Ahmed,
According to Layth's article, "Where was mohammed?", in part 2 at http//free-minds.org/articles/history/moh2.htm, the Masjid Al Haram or the Sacred Mosque/Temple was rather the one at the "Dome of the Rock" in Jerusalem rather than the one at Mecca.
Clearly, I don't think those verses refer to the real Masjid Al Haram. Using this understanding, I think they refer to a Temple that was built to emulate it - thus "do harm and cause rejection, and to divide between the believers, and as an outpost for those who fought God and His messenger before" - this might be the "kaaba" at Mecca (which also has many pagan symbols/rituals with it).
Again, this is just my understanding, I am well aware that many do agree and many don't agree with the whole theory itself and I respect that different people can see the same thing in different ways. To me, this is whole issue not of real significance, because either way they are both "rocks/stones". The real objective of us all is to worship God alone and do good. The small issues caused so much trouble in the past and they continue to do so today - I hereby apologize to anyone whom my understandings might seem offensive. Yes, we can be different and work together for an overall better community that tries its best to please God. )
May God Guide.