Who built the kaaba that is in Mecca?
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Salaam
Why dont you take literal meanings? I am thinking how can I udnerstand these verses if I take literal meanigns and dont look at history of hadith and without adding my own words?.....
Just how I am not taking literal meaning? And who is adding words or looking at history of hadith? I explained what I understood and why, from the verses that follow. Anyways, thanks for your input.
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Salaam Hamsa
I think the Messenger was sent amongst the predominantly Arabic speaking pre dominantly Nabataean people living east of the Jordan River and the Peninsula. The reason for using ?pre-dominantly? in both accounts being there were Arabic speaking Jews and Christians and Aramaic/Greek speaking Nabataeans. I think whoever who was not a Jew or a Christian was known as a gentile and the Messenger was sent amongst them. The Nabateans, with the large Jewish Population living amongst them and the influence of Christianity backed by the powerful Roman Empire and also due to contacts between the Arabs and the Romans would be familiar with the teachings they refer to as promises. The promise people say they received does not mean that there has been a Warner or Messenger sent by Allah amongst them. The concepts of these promises are in the teachings of Judaism and Christianity as well.
The verses do not say the Messenger was only for his people.
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Just how I am not taking literal meaning? And who is adding words or looking at history of hadith? I explained what I understood and why, from the verses that follow. Anyways, thanks for your input.
I have just asked the question and not really added anything, but thanks to you sis that you explained, though I am not in agreement at the moment. I'll have to see other occurances where prophet talk to his people and I let the quran explain itself.
Thanks again.
Salaam
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Salaam Hamsa
I think the Messenger was sent amongst the predominantly Arabic speaking pre dominantly Nabataean people living east of the Jordan River and the Peninsula. The reason for using ?pre-dominantly? in both accounts being there were Arabic speaking Jews and Christians and Aramaic/Greek speaking Nabataeans. I think whoever who was not a Jew or a Christian was known as a gentile and the Messenger was sent amongst them. The Nabateans, with the large Jewish Population living amongst them and the influence of Christianity backed by the powerful Roman Empire and also due to contacts between the Arabs and the Romans would be familiar with the teachings they refer to as promises. The promise people say they received does not mean that there has been a Warner or Messenger sent by Allah amongst them. The concepts of these promises are in the teachings of Judaism and Christianity as well.
The verses do not say the Messenger was only for his people.
So is history important to well explain the verses of quran? How can we understand those verses if we dont use history at all?
Salaam
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Salaam Hamsa
Good question. Most of these things are in the Quraan. Ummieena should mean Gentiles. Also see the verse ?..Two people were given the book before us?.? The Quraan mentions of Allat, Uzza and Manat which is the Nabataean pantheon and about giving daughters to Allah. There are many verses which puts all these things together and possibly what is not inportant for us is left out.
Also there can be certain things we can not prove if people childishly start arguing for instance that Egypt was in America and Pharaoh was an ex-president of USA.
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Ummieena should mean Gentiles.
Salam bro
Can you please elaborate regarding the above statement?, what Gentiles means excatly?
Thanks
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Until Messiah Ayman and his followers in the 21st century realised that every Muslim had been completely duped and Kabba & Mecca had no connection and Mohd neve did Haj in Mecaa and it was all a conspiracy. Exactly who, where and when this conspiracy tooke place the EVIDENCE IS ZERO. But eh so what why let this minor matter get in the way of Messiah Aymans thoeries based on Quranic verses which have very little to do with the point he is making. Yet Messiah's followers are convinced that every interpertation of the Quran is wrong other than his.
Nice; very nice.
Agentxxx
As you can see the YOU in 2846 and the HE in 2847 is not Moses but Mohammad.
And the words ?you were not there? is to indicate that the prophet was informed of the past events by Wahi.
So? What did I wrote? do you even read the post before responding?
AgentXxx
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raj-ah Therefore Quran correctly says "So you can warn a people who received no warner before you" (to tell them the story of Moses).According to your interpretation Warning is just telling the story of Moses
This quote of yours further assures you did not read my post, or you did not understand it.
You are just trying to put words in my mouth, What I said is thisThe story of Moses and Pharoh is being explained to the Arabs/Meccans through Muhammad so they may get lessons from this story.
This is not only place where Allah has used this way of speech, for example in Surah Hood, in Surah Imran 44 and Surah Yousaf 102, similar type of wording is used please read them carefullyBut in this particular Surah Allah is telling the story of Moses through Muhammad to the Meccans, therefore Warning in this particular verse is regarding MOSES and To Meccans.
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Raj-ah-Abraham rebuilt/rennovated the Kaaba that is in Mecca as ordered by Allah, and was inviting the People of Allah to the house of Allah.For what? did god just ordered him to rebuilt and then get out of there for good, never to return again.
For piligrimage; and Abraham assinged his Son there and left because he was assigned somewhere else.
Also read this by AhmadBahgat
Also mate, Ibrahim was never caled Rasool in the Quran, he was only called Nabi as far as I remember, i.e. Ibrahim was never sent to any people with a message from God, He was only a Nabi, i.e. He was to tell the people (no specific people) around him about God and the JD, no laws to follow
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Tanveer
There is ZERO evidence of existence of Mecca during the revelation of the qur'aan.
There is ZERO evidence of existence of the so called Kaaba in Mecca during revelation of the qur'aan
As Abraham raised the foundations of the shrine, together with Ismail (they prayed) "Our Lord, accept this from us. You are the Hearer, the Omniscient
"Our Lord! make of us Muslims, bowing to Thy, and of our progeny a people Muslim, bowing to Thy (will); and show us our place for the celebration of (due) rites; and turn unto us (in Mercy); for Thou art the Oft-Returning, Most Merciful.Is this Prayer of Abraham and Ismail still unanswered??
If these prayers are been answered then KAABA in MECCA is the Place and Surely Abraham and ISmail have built it.The best speculation a sincere and logical person can come up with is that Ka?ba was undoubtedly established and Hajj instituted some time during the the visit of Abraham to Mecca. There is, in fact, evidence that can prove this speculation. For example, the examination of pre-Islamic Arab poetry.
"Mecca," is the word, "makorba," or "temple." The religion of the pre-Islamic Arabs was a mixture of Bedouin polytheism, Judaism, and a little bit of Christianity. The pre-Islamic Arabs worshipped three goddesses, al-Lat, al-Uzza, and Manat, who were all daughters of one god, Allah?this one god was probably derived from the monotheistic religions of Judaism and Christianity. Mecca was the center of this religion with its Ka'ba, or "Cube," which served as the temple for the religion.This exactly tallies with what Quran tells us; The religon of Abraham has been corrupted and people had made daughters of Allah, therefore you (Muhammad) have been sent to bring them back to the original.
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Hajj - The pilgrimage to Mecca required of every Muslim at least once in his life.
Haji - 1. A Muslim who has made the pilgrimage to Mecca. 2. In the Near East, a Christian who has made a pilgrimage to the Holy Sepulcher at Jerusalem.
(The Reader?s Digest Great Encyclopedic Dictionary)
Therefore the concept of Piligrimage is not so unique among Muslims. As some of brothers are so impressed by Westeren and non muslim propganda they have started their own version regarding this, we should look in to matter further deeply
It is curious that the concept of hajj pilgrimage is no longer known in the Western Judeo-Christian traditions, although as pointed out by the definitions quoted at the beginning of this article, a pilgrimage with a similar name is still practiced by the Eastern Christians.
These are some of the prophets whom GOD blessed. They were chosen from among the descendants of Adam, and the descendants of those whom we carried with Noah, and the descendants of Abraham and Israel, and from among those whom we guided and selected. When the revelations of the Most Gracious are recited to them, they fall prostrate, weeping.After them, He substituted generations who lost the Contact Prayers (Salat), and pursued their lusts. They will suffer the consequences.
Most of them forgot the actual teachings and stopped HAjj and Salat and other duties. They for got what is written in BIble
How lovely is Your dwelling place, O Lord Almighty! My soul yearns, even faints for the courts of the Lord; my heart and my flesh cry out for the living God. Even the sparrow has found a home, and the swallow a nest for herself, where she may have her young a place near your altar, O Lord Almighty, my King and my God. Blessed are those who dwell in Your house; they are ever praising You. Blessed are those whose strength is in You, who have set their hearts on pilgrimage. As they pass through the Valley of Baca, they make it a place of springs; the autumn rains also cover it with blessings...? (Psalm 841-6)
This psalm is also known as the psalm of the pilgrimage. It seems to reflect the children of Israel?s ancient longing for the House of God that their patriarch Abraham had built in Baca (Becca), and their ancient practice of making a pilgrimage there. In a sense, it confirms what historian Ibn Ishaq wrote in the 8th century AD about the ancient Jews who used to make a pilgrimage to their patriarch Abraham?s temple in Mecca, centuries before Ibn Ishaq?s time. They stopped the practice when the inhabitants of the city turned into ?unclean polytheists.? Their setting up of idols around the Ka?ba, and the blood which they shed there, presented an insurmountable obstacle for them (Guillaume, op.cit., p.9).
The Holy Scriptures of the Jewish Publication Society retained the name Baca, but used ?the highways? instead of ?pilgrimage? (although still in the context of the road to pilgrimage). The crucial passage is now read ?Happy is the man whose strength is in Thee; in whose hearts are the highways. Passing through the valley of Baca...? The New American Bible?s 1977 edition of the Catholic church, on the other hand, kept the word ?pilgrimage? but translated the proper name ?Baca? using its secondary meaning ?the mastic tree.? The passage read ?Happy the men whose strength you are! Their hearts are set upon the pilgrimage. When they pass through the valley of the mastic trees,....? and its true meaning is irreparably lost.
Indeed, in Arabic and Hebrew, the word becca/baca also means ?the mastic or the balsam tree.? Another meaning of the word is ?the overflowing tears.? These two meanings fit the description of Mecca as well. Mecca is a place where these evergreen trees are found in abundance (the Meccan balsam is a well known name in pharmacopeia). Furthermore, the commemoration of God?s Name - and God alone - during hajj, truly brings tears to many a pilgrim?s eyes.
Needless to say, the most reliable source from a Muslim?s perspective is the word of God in the Quran. Historical records also supported the Quranic assertions that the concept of one God, as well as the salat, hajj, fasting and charity practices of Abraham were apparently preserved by his descendants from Ismail. This could have been one of the reasons, and certainly God planned everything, that the Final Testament - the Quran - was sent down to complete the religion of Abraham through Muhammad of Arabia, who came from Ismail?s line.
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Also mate, Ibrahim was never caled Rasool in the Quran, he was only called Nabi as far as I remember, i.e. Ibrahim was never sent to any people with a message from God, He was only a Nabi, i.e. He was to tell the people (no specific people) around him about God and the JD, no laws to follow
Salam
Peace
Er..
I believe a Prophet is automatically a Messenger but a Messenger is not necessarily a Prophet... ( a bit off topic, worth noting though ) -
Peace all,
As Abraham raised the foundations of the shrine, together with Ismail (they prayed) "Our Lord, accept this from us. You are the Hearer, the Omniscient
"Our Lord! make of us Muslims, bowing to Thy, and of our progeny a people Muslim, bowing to Thy (will); and show us our place for the celebration of (due) rites; and turn unto us (in Mercy); for Thou art the Oft-Returning, Most Merciful.Is this Prayer of Abraham and Ismail still unanswered??
If these prayers are been answered then KAABA in MECCA is the Place and Surely Abraham and ISmail have built it.This is clear proof how some people are twisting and distorting The God's words for their desires.
Firstly, the word is "bayt"/house and NOT "shrine". Shrine is a pagan tample containing pagan idols.
Secondly, the relevant sign NEVER says that Abraham raised the foundation of the house, but CLEARLY says that Abraham raised the foundations FROM/"MIN" the house. It is "qawa3id MIN/FROM albayt", not "qawa3id albayt".
2127 And as Ibraheem raised the foundations FROM/MIN the house with Ismaeel "Our Lord accept this from us, You are the Hearer, the Knowledgeable."
Thirdly, nowhere does al-qur'aan say that the house is in Mecca, but CLEARLY says "bibakkata" (396). The God does not make typos, unlike some people who believe so.
There is ZERO evidence of existence of a town in Arabia called Mecca prior to the 8th century CE.
Since Abraham lived many centuries prior to the 8th century CE, then he couldn't have been to a town called Mecca.
The best speculation a sincere and logical person can come up with is that Ka?ba was undoubtedly established and Hajj instituted some time during the the visit of Abraham to Mecca.
Subhanallah, He makes Rajah accept from his own words that he is SPECULATING !!
6116 And if you obey the majority of those on Earth they will lead you away from God's path; that is because they follow conjecture, and that is because they only guess.
1036 Most of them only follow conjecture. While conjecture does not avail against the truth in anything. God is aware of what they do.
There is, in fact, evidence that can prove this speculation. For example, the examination of pre-Islamic Arab poetry.
What is considered pre-islamic poetry has been CLEARLY proven to be POST-QUR'AANIC INVENTIONS. Please see the following
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=8182.0
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9527.0
"Mecca," is the word, "makorba," or "temple."
More evidence of clear cut twisting !! The word used in al-qur'aan is "makkata" meaning "destruction", and has nothing to do with the so called Mecca or "makorba" or "temple". There is ZERO evidence of the existence of a town called Mecca prior to 8th century CE, and this name was hijacked from the common noun "makkata" from al-qur'aan later on.
There is also no evidence in al-qur'aan of the house being in Mecca. According to the qur'aanic evidence, the so calld Kaaba in Mecca does not meet ANY requirements of "albayt alharaam" and thus cannot be what is mentioned in al-qur'aan.
Mecca was the center of this religion with its Ka'ba, or "Cube," which served as the temple for the religion.
There is ZERO evidence of existence of a town called Mecca or the so called Kaaba during the time of revelation of al-qur'aan.
This exactly tallies with what Quran tells us; The religon of Abraham has been corrupted and people had made daughters of Allah, therefore you (Muhammad) have been sent to bring them back to the original.
The religion of Abraham has indeed been corrupted. Evidence of this corruption is the so called Kaaba in Mecca, in the form of a black cuboid idol which symbolizes the pagan idols and the stone in a dilated vulva shaped enclosure symbolising the crown of the newborn fertility goddess coming out of a dilated vulva, and the "foot print idol", and the pagan rituals of mindlessly spinning seven times around those idols and kissing them.
All this has NO BASIS from al-qur'aan and clearly indicates a continuing love for those filthy pagan idols and rituals. These pagan practices were incorporated into the islamic system ater the death of the Prophet by the pagan hypocrites and it is degrading and insulting to the Prophet to insinuate that he must have sanctioned these filthy pagan practices.
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Peace all,
Indeed, in Arabic and Hebrew, the word becca/baca also means ?the mastic or the balsam tree.? Another meaning of the word is ?the overflowing tears.? These two meanings fit the description of Mecca as well. Mecca is a place where these evergreen trees are found in abundance (the Meccan balsam is a well known name in pharmacopeia). Furthermore, the commemoration of God?s Name - and God alone - during hajj, truly brings tears to many a pilgrim?s eyes.
More misleading statements.
Following are the meanings of "BKK" from Lane Lexicon
= Ba-Kaf-Kaf (e.g. bakka) = pounding or crushing (al-&unuqa (on) the neck) (daqqul-&unuqa), distinguishing/ranking above others (farraqahu, kharaqahu), jostling, pressing or crowding(crowdszahm), any crowding(or crowds), competition. (izdihaam) heaping/piling together/amassing (taraakib), super-imposition of things on top of other things (taraakim), a man/male having or the trying to have sex with a female, denial or rejection a thing or person's dignity, to humiliate, cancellation/dissolution/breaking, being in need or being stout, muscular or rough, from activity.
bakkah n. 396
As clear from al-qur'aan, following are the criteria for the house
- First and foremost it is anywhere the people who administer it do not setup any partners with The God (2226).
- In this location, the people who administer it invite ALL PEOPLE to the "hajj" (2227), not just people from a certain religion.
- They purify it from all forms of idolatry (2226).
- The house is not just a place of assembly but it is a SAFE place of assembly (2125).
How can "bakkata" imply Mecca when the so called Kaaba in Mecca does not meet ANY requirements/criteria of "albayt alharaam" laid out in al-qur'aan ?
Please see the following again
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=14268.msg128048#msg128048
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AOA
there is ZERO evidence of existence of a town in Arabia called Mecca prior to the 8th century CE.
So the historically established and accepted facts that Mohd being orphan, brought up by his uncle, having a cousin named Ali, Mods grandchildren being involved in a battle at Karbla, migrating and returning to Mecca etc are all fabricated & no one has noticed these minor errors in history.
Secondly I suppose you will now able to present the evidence that the Town called Mecca in South Arabia was established in the 8th century as you do not believe what the history books tell us about Mohd or Mecca. If you wish to turn history inside out then you must provide strong evidence.All this has NO BASIS from al-qur'aan and clearly indicates a continuing love for those filthy pagan idols and rituals. These pagan practices were incorporated into the Islamic system after the death of the Prophet by the pagan hypocrites and it is degrading and insulting to the Prophet to insinuate that he must have sanctioned these filthy pagan practices.
No doubt you will now qualify your statement by providing some evidence as to when, where and by whom these practices were incorporated into Islam. If you are unable to do so then you fall outside any recognised form of Islam as you will be practicing a religion which has never been practiced by anyone before.
regards
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AOA Ra-jah
Nice; very nice.
Thank you.
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Hi, other than the Hadith, I would LOVE, I mean this literaly, LOVE to see a source showing that Muhammad was a orphan, brought up by his uncle, had a cousin, Ali, whose children were involved in a battle at Karbala, and who returned to Mecca.
Frankly, I don't know what on Earth to believe from that period of time aside from this lovely book. Mainly, I want to see evidence that Abraham moved to Mecca, which is miles and miles away from his starting point. I also want to know, why God, who all this time based his AO (area of operations) in Jerusalem, suddenly decided Mecca would be a nice resort to conduct from.
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Peace all,
Who cares exactly when, where and by whom the pagan practices were adopted. The qur'aanic evidence proves that the Prophet did not indulge in those pagan practices, but apparently the qur'aanic evidence is not enough for some.
3936 Is God not enough for His servant? And they frighten you with others beside Him. And whomever God sends astray, then for him there will be no guide.
The system of islam has been practiced by plenty of people before. Does Noah, Abraham, Ismaeel, Ishaaq, Moses, Jesus etc. ring any bell ?
4213 He has decreed for you the same system He ordained for Noah, and what We inspired to you, and what We ordained for Abraham, Moses, and Jesus "You shall uphold this system, and do not divide in it." Intolerable for those who have set up partners is what you invite them towards. God chooses for Himself whomever He wills; He guides to Himself those who repent.
The part in red above is a perfect illustration of the behavior of those who love the filthy pagan idols, and who will come up with any excuse to keep loving their filthy pagan idols.
The staunch disbelievers will not believe even when the clear qur'aanic proofs are presented to them.
6104 "Visible proofs have come to you from your Lord; so whoever can see, does so for himself, and whoever is blinded, does the same. I am not a watcher over you."
4083 Then, when their messengers came to them with clear proofs, they were content with what they already had of the knowledge. And that which they ridiculed became their doom.
My response to those who insist on idol worship
4066 Say "I have been forbidden from serving those whom you are calling upon besides God, since the proofs have come to me from my Lord. And I have been commanded to submit to the Lord of the worlds."
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Idol worship or not, could you substantiate your claims with more evidence? Otherwise you reduce yourself to a Sunni's argument.
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AOA all
48;24
And He is the One who withheld their hands against you, and your hands against them in the interior of Mecca, after He had made you victorious over them. God is Seer of what you do.
Free minds translation, or check any other translation. Not Arabic speaking but the word Mecca seem even obvious to me. Is this another pagan conspiracy?
regards
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AOA all
48;24
And He is the One who withheld their hands against you, and your hands against them in the interior of Mecca, after He had made you victorious over them. God is Seer of what you do.
Free minds translation, or check any other translation. Not Arabic speaking but the word Mecca seem even obvious to me. Is this another pagan conspiracy?
regards
bravo