Quran the Criterion?
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Peace Samia,
I think you have mixed up the translation of 22 with 2185. The translation of 22 should stop after God fearing people.
22 That book ,whereof there is no doubt, a guidance to the righteous/God fearing people.
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Blessed is He who sent down the Criterion to His servant, that it may be an admonition to all creatures (251)
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Peace Samia,
I think you have mixed up the translation of 22 with 2185. The translation of 22 should stop after God fearing people.
22 That book ,whereof there is no doubt, a guidance to the righteous/God fearing people.
Oh dear! And I was saying "where did this verse go?" and had to type it again!!
Blame it on...never mind -
peace all,
Savage, you saidI think another issue here is of morality. Where does morality come from and why/how do we choose to make it into a criterion to live our lives by. I don't think it's all subjective and/or complicated, I believe that there is objective truth and if one is sincere (in wanting to know, thereby erasing bias/ego/other factors as much as they can, using reasoning and logic etc eventually there comes a point of certainty), one will be guided to it regardless of where that guidance comes from (explained a bit further below). I like the story of Abraham here. I also think that a total clampdown on emotion is not right (just read your entire post now). I have always seen a true harmony like a balance. Everything working in tandem with the other and when they all point to the same thing, it's like you've hit gold.
I'm sincere, and I want to know. But the thing is even if I know, can I distinguish between what's right and what's wrong ?
From what I've experienced, when we see something, we instinctively know what is the right thing and what's not.
Even people who believe in stoning people to death for adultery have to come up with excuses for the punishment. It shows that even if we believe in the wrong thing, that instinct of right and wrong is still there.
but for now, I'll stop thinking and follow Tay's advice. -
Peace,
But the thing is even if I know, can I distinguish between what's right and what's wrong ?
Yes, not just by gut but by examining it critically and seeing if everything (mind/gut/reason/logic/self etc) comes together.
From what I've experienced, when we see something, we instinctively know what is the right thing and what's not.
I've experienced that my gut can be overwhelmed by other factors thereby confusing my judgement.
Even people who believe in stoning people to death for adultery have to come up with excuses for the punishment. It shows that even if we believe in the wrong thing, that instinct of right and wrong is still there.
It could be that they are not comfortable with it yet don't want to openly risk others wrath or be ostracised, or to go all the way, find out why/how and reject it decisively. Sure that instinct can be there like I said, it can also be ignored/played down/rejected due to various factors.but for now, I'll stop thinking and follow Tay's advice.
Good call imo )
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Salam,
D ..was browsing for answer, came to read wakas' article on Does God Exist, and tada! Quran's characteristics..
from http//mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/think-786/DGE_science_koran_quran.htm
Probability Values for Each Section
Part 1 ? Science in The Quran = ?1 in 1 billion?Part 2 ? Literary Quality of The Quran = ?1 in 10 million?
Part 3 ? Prophecies Within The Quran = ?1 in 1 million?
May i add, what i found amazing about the quran is that, the author (if one wants to see it that way) of this book did say he is but a messenger, and he tells the reader to worship God alone, worship God alone, worship God alone.
Now, which book author, in addition to have written such a simple, in an authoritative way yet force no ideas down the readers' throut, detailed book full of wisdoms, did not ask us to look up to him but worship God alone, worship God alone, worship God alone... that's the main point of the book...
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Peace all,
Mind/gut/reason/logic/self/instinct can all be used to come to the conclusion of what is right or wrong, but the only ABSOLUTE way to confirm that conclusion will be to compare it with the criterion given in the Qur'aan.
The problem is that we can never be one hundred percent sure about the truthfulness of our conclusion as to what is right or wrong, because the evil hidden side of our nafs keeps putting the wrong thoughts (wasaawis) in our mind, thereby clouding/confusing/tainting the issue, so we cannot rely ONLY on our minds/gut/reason/logic/instinct etc, and need an ABSOLUTE criterion to verify our tainted conclusions.
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Peace Tanveer,
Very well stated, although I slightly disagree.
Deep meditation/prayer transcends the chatter of the nafs and is thus immune to the influence of the ego/iblis. When we have the qur'anic guidance in mind, the deep reflection puts it into the proper perspective. It is the combination of knowledge and meditation/prayer that solidifies the concepts.Peace,
Tay -
I agree with both Tanveer and Tay in a way. The problem is, on one hand giving the only absolute criterion in a book that is the only absolute way, how does one relate such to someone who doesn't have/can't read the quran for themselves? That's the major problem that I see here and therefore, maybe an alternate is present. I think a person can make it without and that route has it's ups and downs as well. Peace.
but the only ABSOLUTE way to confirm that conclusion will be to compare it with the criterion given in the Qur'aan
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peace Tay, all,
Deep meditation/prayer transcends the chatter of the nafs and is thus immune to the influence of the ego/iblis.
I assume by the above you are implying one can reach objective criterions in this state. If so, any evidence? Also, how does one assess if they truly have transcended the "chatter of the nafs and is thus immune to the influence of the ego/iblis"?
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Peace Wakas,
I assume by the above you are implying one can reach objective criterions in this state. If so, any evidence?
Well, my next sentence was essential to what I was expressing..."When we have the qur'anic guidance in mind, the deep reflection puts it into the proper perspective."
As for evidence - what would qualify?
I mean, anything I say can be written off as my subjective experience, since we're dealing with transcendence of the mind.Also, how does one assess if they truly have transcended the "chatter of the nafs and is thus immune to the influence of the ego/iblis"?
Good question. In my own experience, the normal chatter that I'm used to hearing throughout my day simply fades away. Then I reach a state of "quiet". It's difficult to express in words but the best way to describe it is once I'm in that state, the feeling of warmth and peace takes over. You reach a point of clarity and a freedom from preconception, from reference points. And then it's like an open channel to God. You ask, and the answers come.
Now I'm sure anyone can say, "well, how do you know it's not ego/iblis that you're mistaking for God?". I guess you just know by the feeling generated and the effects of the guidance received. To me, if everything turns out positive and one feels peaceful and content, then we must be on the right path. For God to allow ego/iblis that level and depth of deception would be probably the most wicked thing imaginable, and frankly, not the God I want to obey.
Peace,
Tay -
peace Tay,
Thanks for the reply.
As for evidence - what would qualify?
I mean, anything I say can be written off as my subjective experience, since we're dealing with transcendence of the mind.Exactly, so your statement of reaching an uninfluenced/immune/objective state of mind is subjective and cannot be assessed. That is what I wished to highlight.
I do agree, however, that being in such a state can be helpful but I wouldn't give it a truly objective status as you were implying. -
Peace Wakas,
Exactly, so your statement of reaching an uninfluenced/immune/objective state of mind is subjective and cannot be assessed. That is what I wished to highlight.
Fair enough.
I do agree, however, that being in such a state can be helpful but I wouldn't give it a truly objective status as you were implying.
My apologies for conveying that implication. As you may know, for me, there is very little that is truly objective.
Peace,
Tay -
Peace sis SC, all,
The problem is, on one hand giving the only absolute criterion in a book that is the only absolute way, how does one relate such to someone who doesn't have/can't read the quran for themselves?
I think The God will judge everyone based on their real limitations, so someone who doesn't have/can't read the Qur'aan will be judged differently than someone who has the Qur'aan and has read it, provided the person who didn't have access to/didn't understand the Qur'aan really didn't have access/didn't understand after making genuine attempts to do so and not just because that person didn't make any efforts to have access and understand it. Only He knows the true extent of someone's understanding after genuine attempts, and the genuine efforts one made to implement and follow those understandings.
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Peace bro Tanveer,
I agree with everyone will be judged on their merits/demerits/limitations/various factors. Exactly my point Tanman . I like that name. peace
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Peace SC,
Thanks for liking the name. It was given to me more than a hundred full-moons ago by my friend Richard P In the free-mind world I am Tanveer and in the gaming world I am Tanman !!
