17:78 traduction question
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You shall hold the connection during the setting of the sun till the twilight; and the Qur'an at dawn; the Qur'an at dawn is witnessed. 17 78
Traduction from the quran from Freemind.org
http//img520.imageshack.us/img520/5351/sanstitrefffit4.jpg
From QXP traduction of Shabbir Ahmed.
So Why is salat traducted differently here?
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Salaam Yosemite
Just a little help
Traduction (Fr) Translation (Eng)
Traduire/ traduit(e) To translate/ translatedleast some might be confused.
I would stick with Free-minds translation
Peace sis Samia,
Thanks for the help, I've learned a new word today "traduction".
And here is the FM translation
Free Minds Thou shall hold the contact-method until the dipping of the sun; until the darkness of the night; and the Quran at dawn, the Quran at dawn has been witnessed.
And I understood nothing from this FM's translation. Would you please explain what does this verse say?
Shabbir's traduction is also copied from the parwez's exposition of Quran. But atleast he has explained enough to understand what verse is saying though according to his own understanding. Not saying Right or wrong.
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Peace Hamsa,
And here is the FM translation
Free Minds Thou shall hold the contact-method until the dipping of the sun; until the darkness of the night; and the Quran at dawn, the Quran at dawn has been witnessed.
I don't know where you are getting FM translations from. Please go to the main home page of free-minds.org and click on Quran to get the latest online FM translation
1778 You shall hold the connection during the setting of the sun till the twilight; and the Qur'an at dawn; the Qur'an at dawn is witnessed.
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Peace Hamsa,
I don't know where you are getting FM translations from. Please go to the main home page of free-minds.org and click on Quran to get the latest online FM translation
1778 You shall hold the connection during the setting of the sun till the twilight; and the Qur'an at dawn; the Qur'an at dawn is witnessed.
Peace brother Tanveer,
From here http//www.islamawakened.com/Quran/
and the Qur'an at dawn; the Qur'an at dawn is witnessed.<<would you please elaborate this as well.
And I will check the latest translation as well, thanks.
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Peace Hamsa,
The dawn connection is mentioned in 2458 and also referred to by the "two edges of the daytime" in 11114. In 4103, we hear the salaat/connection being a "timed book", which implies reading from the book during salaat at regular times. The context of 17105-111 clearly implies reciting from the Qur'aan in context of salaat. Putting all those signs together with 1778, it becomes clear that "the Qur'aan at dawn" or "the dawn reading" refers to the reading of the God's words during the dawn salaat.
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Salaam Yosemite
Just a little help
Traduction (Fr) Translation (Eng)
Traduire/ traduit(e) To translate/ translatedleast some might be confused.
I would stick with Free-minds translation
Haha i'm busted. D
I thought traduction was also english not only french.
Okay i still don't get why the arabic words have been translated with so much difference.
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Haha i'm busted. D
I thought traduction was also english not only french.
Okay i still don't get why the arabic words have been translated with so much difference.
I think the person who has translated it differently can reply it better. What do you think?
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peace
i have a question about "setting of the sun till the twilight" part.
is that setting at the horizon (implying sunset)?
or declining from the middle of the sky (implying noon)?i've heard both translations one time or another. which one is the correct one?
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Peace nerspi,
1778 You shall uphold the salaat from the sun's "DULUK", to darkness of the night, and the Qur'aan at dawn; the Qur'aan at dawn is witnessed.
What is "DULUK" ? This word is mentioned only one time in the Qur'aan. Its root is DLK, which means "to rub or to massage". "Duluk" can also mean "declination" but it does not mean "declination at noon". The sun can only appear to be "rubbing" when it rubs the horizon at sunrise and at sunset, but when it rubs at sunrise, it is not declining but ascending. The context (177 implies the meaning "the rubbing of the sun at sunset" (the context of the verse suggests that it is at sunset and not at sunrise).
When the sun rubs the horizon at sunset, it is also declining at that time, thus both meanings "rubbing" and "declination" fit.
LI DULUKI AL-SHAMSI can only be interpreted as the sun's rubbing of the horizon and declination at sunset. With the preposition LI, which means (in this case) just after, the very precise interpretation of "li duluki al-shamsi" would be just after the sun goes beyond the horizon. So if we take this interpretation, then the first part of the verse would be translated as follows
"Uphold the "salaat"/connection from when the sun goes beyond the horizon (after sunset) up to darkness of the night (twilight)".
The Qur'aan at dawn is synonymous with the salaat al-fajr; as one of the most important parts of upholding salaat is oration/reading of the Qur'aan.
Therefore this verse also confirms the same two times of upholding salaat as 2458 and thus 2458 is consistent with 1778.
TWO POINTS
Firstly, if "duluk" is interpreted as "declination at noon", then how come the noon salaat is not mentioned in 2458, where salaat al-fajr and salaat al-isha are mentioned ?
Secondly AND MORE IMPORTANTLY
Even if this verse is wrongly translated as mentioning decline of sun from noon up to the darkness of the night, still Allah is mentioning ONE TIME PERIOD and referring to ONE SALAAT in that time period because it says "uphold the salaat (singular) from the sun's duluk until darkness of the night" in 1778, and not "uphold the SALAWAAT (plural) .............".
How can someone interpret this one salaat in that one time period as two salaats (noon and isha), when clearly that time period is mentioned for singular SALAAT in 1778 ? The false "noon" meaning is PURE CONJECTURE based on excess baggage of the sectarian notion of al-islaam based on the fabricated hearsays falsely attributed to Prophet Muhammad. 1778 refers to one salaat during that one time period of "from the sun's duluk to the darkness of the night", which is salaat al-isha, and to one salaat at dawn signified by the dawn Reading, and thus the correct translation can only be "from the setting of the sun to darkness of the night".
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Peace Warner,
The words in the signs referenced by you are from the root DLL, and not DLK.
According to Lane Lexicon
Dal-Lam-Kaf = rubbing, squeezing, pressing, decline, sinking, become red, set.
The whole phrase "duluk-as-shams" defined as "sunset" by Lane.
dalaka vb. (1) n.vb. 1778
Lane's Lexicon, Volume 3, pages 72, 73
Dal-Lam-Lam = To show, point out, indicate, direct, point at, guide, delude, discover, lead.
dalla vb. (1)
perf. act. 3414
impf. act. 2040, 20120, 2812, 347, 6110Lane's Lexicon, Volume 3, pages 66, 67, 68
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Peace Tanveer
Please check the verses 2040, 20120, 2812, 347, 6110 in Arabic, the letters are Dal-Lam-Kaf same as duluk in 1778. I am not sure how the words in these few verses got listed under the root Dal-Lam-Lam.
Salaam warner
Brother Tanweer is right.
The words (actually sentences) are
adullukum I point out to you (plural)
adulluka I point out to you (singular)
adullukum as no. one
nadullukum We point out to you (plural)
adullukum respectivly.This is the verb "dalla, root dal - laam - laam to point out "something" to some one. If you notice, they are all followed by "3ala a preposition that stands for "out" in "to point out", e.g.
What confuses you is the "kaaf" towards the end. It is the suffixed pronoun (you s. & p) ka; kum.
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Salam.
So this verse refer to only one Solat time/Solat Maghrib, which we are to perform starting from the sunset until the ends of the twilight when the reddish glow in the western sky dissappear. Next we are encourage to read the Qur'an at dawn.
I agree with this interpretation. Maghrib time which is the transition from day to night is the best time that we clean ourself and do some solat or prayer, it's not recommended that we still busy doing something else. Time to relax our mind, it is also not a good time to nap, because I will get headache if I sleep during maghrib.
Meanwhile, dawn is the best time to read the Qur'an, where our mind is fresh.
About Solat, another occurence is Solat Fajr and Solat Isya. So, it's three times a day. Fajr, Maghrib and Isha?
This way, solat will never interfere with our working hours or productivity.We start our day by praying/praising God during solat fajr and then read some Qur'an as daily reminders/guidance.
Then we can fulfills our commitments the whole day of whoever we are, students, workers, parents etc.Then when the sunsets, we stop and clean ourself and relax our body and mind with solat/prayers.
Last, before we go to sleep, we perform one more solat/Isha, then we can do some introspection.
And for additional benefit, we can wake up early in the morning before dawn to perform tahajjud by praying/praising and repenting to God and to read the Qur'an in the serenity of the night.(Surah 73)
Thanks.
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Salaam all
This second time for salaat starts from when the sun rubbs the horizon (just before it sets) to its complete disappearance and just before the fall of night. This period is what's known as "3ishaa'"
The complete sunset being the time of salaat is not true, as per the explanation of 3ishaa' in this verse, and per verse 2458 where this salaat is explicitly called (salaatul 3ishaa'.
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peace all,
With reference to the "quran al fajr / reading at dawn" statement. Perhaps it would be fruitful to consider what acts 'al quran' specifically mentions for us to do daily, at a set time.
What one may find is it is only 'salat al fajr', 'salat al 3isha', 'quran al fajr / reading at dawn'.
And as brother Tanveer has already pointed out, it is also my belief, that 'salat al fajr' & 'quran al fajr' are synonymous, i.e. the same thing.
