One God vs Many Gods
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Phoenix ( I do not have to continue greeting in a volley)
In the Quraan, Bible even in Vedas one God is claiming all this with powerful arguments. The name may be different but finally it leads up to one God in all these books. Tell me the reason for other Gods to be silent and gloss over the issue. What is with you impotent gods and angelina jolies ? I hope this doesnt get locked as well. Is A. Jolie a banned word in FM.
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Yes, one god is everywhere in religious scriptures, but my argument is that people are looking at this concept of "god" as a superhuman who has emotions and would have to fight with other gods for power or whatever. This is the kind of god that is forced into our reality, because it's signs are not visible, we KNOW nothing about this god.
If every scripture talks about a god, then it has to be something that is present in our reality (and in our everday reality not scientific reality, because these books were written thousands of years ago). It's something that is there and is being described as god. Not something that's not there and we just have to believe in it because it's a test.I like impotent Gods because if it was just Jolie, the impotent gods, and me in heaven, she wouldn't go for the impotent gods would she?
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Hey Phoenix
I did not really understand your point. The nature around us the universe its presence is reality. You will know God by His signs in the earth and the heaven and within us. the message is also the sign the explanation and confirmation of His existence. Or do you want a God who lives in a stone house or lives next door to yours.I know someone who used to live in the same neghbourhood as Bono.
It's something that is there and is being described as god. Not something that's not there and we just have to believe in it because it's a test.
This you should explain bit more.
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This verse is what I tried to explain, here it is clear that polytheism means believing in more than one God and not the act of seeking intercession. Its not the act that is shirk but the belief. The person who believes in musltiple gods seeks intercession in a different way and for different reasons than the tawassul that some muslims do. The belief that these gods created different things or that God created then relied on partners to run things, another words there is more than one creator or more than one sustainer, so here the Quran says then why this harmony if there are multiple of gods in action. Therfore why would not these gods each take his creation(oceans, wind, rain, moon, sun, earth etc) and take off. Also if there were other sustainers then there can be a conflict between the wind and rain and the sun and the moon and how can they get along so well to keep the universe in harmony.
Thanks, it is a valid logic of course
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Phoenix ( I do not have to continue greeting in a volley)
Hello
LOL, I say you better play it safe, the same verse says "Allah takes account of everything"
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Salam all,
thanks for the inputs, i hope we get more inputs so we are able to widen our perception, God willing
I hope the compartmentalization of points from everyone's post is helpful. .. i have a feeling the answer to enquire's question is emerging (What if there are multiple gods that are not conflicting?-- is this even possible??)
i believe logical reasoning(plus experience) would lead us to truth..and truth leads us to God, thus this topic.
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disorder, chaos, conflict > as voiced out by hajirfm, lostphilosopher, and enquirer
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power and the matter of proving it > aknowledged (conciously or subconciously) by phoenix/lobster, warner and sarat
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truth > as brought up in al-quraishi's post and Yusha's
4)harmony/ smooth run among creations > reminded by Bigmo
"Allah takes account of everything"
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peace warner,
the nature around us, our reality, doesn't point to a god who is like a person. The signs don't point to a god who sends messengers, writes books, gets angry with people, and fights with other gods (if they exist). There's no way you can even get close to proving that there's sort of a "superhuman" being out there. This god is a god which has been created to explain things we don't understand, not a god which we know exists by studying this world. -
Peace Pheonix
The computer can not grasp its creator, the cell developed in the laboratory can not grasp its developer, the animation can not grasp the animator and People who lived 100 years ago can not grasp the lives and the ways of the people of today. What makes you think what is beyond our perceptions is non existent. When you agree we do not understand things within our nature how do you expect us to understand what is beyond. It was necessary to send a human messenger to Pharaoh who lived over 3000 years ago not a SMS. Writes books, gets angry and fights are your thinking they are not in the Quraan.
Have you read any Deepak Chopra books ?
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peace Warner,
I have not read any Deepak Chopra books (I'll try to find a summary of his writings somewhere in the meantime).
Why can't the computer or the cell grasp it's creator? Fine, a cell doesn't have a brain, but computers in the future will have artificial intelligence, what'll stop them?
There's no reason to believe that something that has been created cannot understand it's creator.
But let's just assume that we can't understand God.
You are saying that only messengers who are special creations of god can understand it?You keep saying that it's impossible for us to know what god is, yet you claim that god sends messengers. If you don't understand god, how do you know he sends messengers? how do you know that it was necessary to send a messenger 3000 years ago? How do you know what the quran says is true about god? that god is merciful and beneficient and what not.
oh, and I never said god was beyond our perception, and I didnt' say god didn't exist.
I just think that we can't believe what we haven't seen.
If we can't understand god, we can't make assumptions about god. -
Easy folks. I would suggest people read and ponder lobsters posts very carefully here...He is asking a lot of very pertinent questions,and disclosing a lot of excellent food for thought...If we know so little of god,how can we say he is merciful or sends messengers etc? And are we not projecting our concept of god onto reality rather than taking our concept of god from reality? Doesnt the quran ask to ponder/study the signs of the universe,didnt abraham study nature to discover god rather than get his concept from a book or from pre-conceived/untested concepts?
Finally,when we see all the conflict(as well as harmony) in the world why cant there be conflicting gods,competing gods,or even incompetent/indifferent gods... -\ ) o -
If we can't understand god, we can't make assumptions about god.
I agree.
Do you agree if God says our purpose is to obey God, then it is our purpose to do so...regardless if we understand God or not?It is already made clear that Quran is from God (and it confirms there's only One God), none can produce it like it is.. why do you still question after your doubt is cleared? Or do you simply deny the truth?
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peace Katara,
how does the quran confirm there's only one god? and no, it's not clear that the quran is from god. If it's all true, then it is, but we don't know if all of it is true yet. At least I don't.
If we don't understand god, we can't tell what's from god and what isn't, and we certainly can't tell what god told us to do. -
Easy folks...What if there are multiple gods that are not conflicting?
Multiple gods that are not conflicting, working together in harmony..can only mean, they have to be dependent on each other. Being dependent on each other also equals to dependency on the created system. The universe's Creator cannot be bounded by His own creation.
Both's plan cannot work if either one (out of the many gods) decided to change = hence, both are not omnipotent.
Multiple gods makes no sense,
because a creator cannot be dependent on his creation -
Salam,
What is the Illogical reason(s) for many Gods?
Can someone pls help provide the verse which says if there's many gods, they'll fight or sumthing...
thanks )Peace,
Respectfully.If there were many gods, then several questions come to mind How do you know which is the real god, how can you tell which is your creator, how can you tell the difference between the two or more gods, if god needs assistance of another god, then how come that makes him allpowerful and most importantly wouldn't it be weird running from one god to another, if you didn't like something?
Needless to say there is no go but One God.
Glory be to The Exalted God AllPowerful.
God bless you.
Peace. -
god is the source. god is the absolute. god is oneness. god just is.
multiple god's would be to split the source, the one. we humans are also one but divide through racism, sexism, etc...
successful is the one who realizes that we are all one.In the name of God, the Almighty, the Merciful.
1121 Say ?He is God, the One,?
1122 ?God, the Absolute,?
1123 ?He does not beget, nor was He begotten,?
1124 ?And there is none who are His equal.? -
Peace,
Respectfully.GOD bears witness that there is no god except He, and so do the angels and those who possess knowledge. Truthfully and equitably, He is the absolute god; there is no god but He, the Almighty, Most Wise.
Glory be to our God.
God bless you all.
Peace. jedi