can you scientifically prove there's only one God?
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Ok,i know sometimes things are hard to put into words.....So your saying god is essentially supernatural and all-powerful? We could never discover the unseen without his permission,and maybe he will never give that permission? (sounds highly anthromorphic hey?!) So science is forever excluded from these issues?
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Nope. As you note the difficulty in putting this in writing, I am saying that this anthropomorphism we attribute to God, may not be in the sense we percieve it - i.e. that this "God" exists well out of the bounds of sapience, logic, reasoning, sight, hearing, etc. In other words, this God could be an aether, we do not know. But an aether has a materialistic implementation - so it cannot be this God we search for.
Now, it may be that this God, again, let me remind you - out of the domain of sapience and human reasoning - does not permit us to do this, for reasons we cannot percieve. Considering this God also exists out of the domain of time, there is no "without and will never" either. Imagine this God as a chess-computer that can calculate an infinite number of possibilities of chess moves - this God does not just know determinism, this God originates determinism itself.
Science, is not excluded from this whatsoever. Science, I would say is excluded from the knowledge of the "unseen", however. But do we know what we do not know? I've found even George Bush with his "Known knowns" speech recognizes this. In order to know what we do not know about what we do not know, we must know what we do not know - impossible through any avenue. In other words, the unseen God is out of the bounds of perception.
Now, science, I keep stating this in other places, only accounts for ONE piece of the "why are we here" puzzle - the how we were here. Can we seriously prove anything of this puzzle from that? No. That's why, I could never be atheist. I recognize that there may be things I cannot percieve, or that no human can percieve. And history shows that such things exist (of course, the group of things we cannot percieve depend on the means we have at the time). Did any human prior to 3000BC know of things such as pulsars, or the Big-Bang, or evolution? I doubt it. Could original man fathom the existance of Uranium-238 and then fathom the power this would bring? I doubt this also. It is out of the bounds of perception given the means. Sure, they may fathom it, but can they prove it? Not without the means. Without such a thing, they would have been thought of as crackpots. But hey, U-238 exists, and we learnt its painful power... Fire exists, I imagine early humans may have learnt of that thing's painful power too. Now, the other peice of the puzzle is our own logic, reasoning and philosophy, backed up by the first third. The final third is what we find after we die - the answer.
But what we see is that there is intelligence in cause and effect - when there are a bazillion variables, it is shown to result in reversal of entropy - the core of the evolution theory...
Reversal of entropy indicates order - order indicates God.
Well, there's a painfully punched out version of what I percieve as God. You will notice that I steer clear of labelling "him" as of any form, for the simple reason that I don't know, you don't know, I don't think the prophets knew, Bob the milkman doesn't know, Hawking the physicist doesn't know, etc, etc, etc.
Now, let me be blunt. You cannot empirically prove that which is not there.
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You are assuming that which is not there is real.....
All the examples you gave have been discovered now,but you say god will never be discovered so the analogy is not relevant.....I know you cant disprove the supernatural totally,but you can live life without considering it meaningful,applicable or likely... You cant disprove the existance of an invisible group of aliens applying gravity to the planet,because by definition they are invisible,yet you can appreciate empirically the gravity they cause,no?......I hope you can see that attributing gravity or some cause and effect to a supernatual entity is fraught with illogic,mystery and cannot be disproved totally,but can be considered neglible and illogical...I mean nobody takes seriously the premise that these 'invisible' aliens exist,so just attributing empirical real life cause and effect to god or supernatural entities i feel is wholly misleading.....
ps; i could also say that these 'invisible' aliens are responsible for the 'supposed harmony' of gravity,and you couldnt disprove this notion empirically.... -
But then these "invisible aliens" would fit into the concept of "God"!
Of course, you can disregard the supernatural totally and live your life so. I implicitly covered that - God (as defined) clearly does not employ an interventionist policy, he says "Be", and the universe comes into being, in this state, as an isolated cocoon.
You know the saying, when someone fails at something blindingly obvious - "There is no God... sigh" - Maybe we are a device for this God to empirically verify that there is a God? rotfl
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Just saw this thread.
I think you can logically prove that IF God exists, then logically, the most likely scenario would be one God.
The Quran applies some logic with reference to this point here
If there were gods in them (heaven and earth) except for God, then they would have been ruined...
God has not taken a son, nor is there with Him any god. If it were so, then every god would have taken what He created and they would have tried to overtake each other. God be glorified against what they describe!
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I posted a Big Presentation on another Forum about some of the Questions like this regarding God, His Attributes, and the Dogmatic elements.
But...unfortunately, it got Deleted accidentally. So Inshallah I will re-make it and post it here. (I should have saved it)anyways,
I used to be an Atheist...("weak atheism" which was due more to rebellion not actual belief).
I think One of the MOST IMPORTANT Lessons in Life to know is this
YOU CANNOT Prove Allah's Existence... Because.... it is NOT your Duty. It is NOT your Job.
Your Job is ONLY to Give Dawah.(Deliver a Message)...It is ALLAH who then "Reveals" Himself to the Individual. Allah does it Himself with his Infinite Knowledge. You cannot Prove His Existence, because...that is NOT Your job to do.
Once you realize that, Things Get much easier for you.
what you can do...is Show what HE has Created.
Mathematics. Codes (19), Big bang, Life, Death, Etc....
If I were to talk to an Agnostic person, I'd First Give him the Quran (Illuminating Book)...
Then If he asks for more...Show him the Quran's Scientific Miracles, and the Quran's Mathematic Codes that preserve the scripture.
if Allah wills, He will Submit. Allah knows All. -
peace
YOU CANNOT Prove Allah's Existence...
o
can't you? hmmof course you can
what is bringing about the goodness in the universe?the evolution over millions of years?
do people like what has been brought about over time?
of course they do ........so follow it.
peace
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peace
o
can't you? hmmof course you can
what is bringing about the goodness in the universe?the evolution over millions of years?
do people like what has been brought about over time?
of course they do ........so follow it.
peace
well, let me rephrase that... WE (you and me) can agree and Prove or Understand Divine Truth in refference to Allah's existance.
But to an Atheist or Agnostic.... WE are just full of B.s.
Even if we were to show the Atheist All of the Beautiful things we know about the Quran, Logic, Science, Etc...
...They will still think we are full of it...and Still believe there Is No God.
So therefore, There is Really Nothing we can do to prove Allah's Existence to him. ONLY Allah can do that.
And really, its not even our duty. Our Duty is Simply to give him (the atheist) the Message.
Then ALLAH will reveal the Unexplainable Things to him.DO you get what I am trying to say?
Its like, If I say "Look! Alhumdulilah (praise be to God), He has Created Mountains"....The Atheist will think I am crazy, and will not understand. He will just say... Uh, actually Mountains were created over Millions of years of Stress and tectonic plates, that came from the Earth...That came from the Big bang, that came from.....Coincidental Creation..(Not God).
So, Its only Allah who can do the rest. Not Us. Only Allah can open his Mind to let him Know about Allah. ;D
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well, let me rephrase that... WE (you and me) can agree and Prove or Understand Divine Truth in refference to Allah's existance.
But to an Atheist or Agnostic.... WE are just full of B.s.
Even if we were to show the Atheist All of the Beautiful things we know about the Quran, Logic, Science, Etc...
...They will still think we are full of it...and Still believe there Is No God.
So therefore, There is Really Nothing we can do to prove Allah's Existence to him. ONLY Allah can do that.
And really, its not even our duty. Our Duty is Simply to give him (the atheist) the Message.
Then ALLAH will reveal the Unexplainable Things to him.DO you get what I am trying to say?
Its like, If I say "Look! Alhumdulilah (praise be to God), He has Created Mountains"....The Atheist will think I am crazy, and will not understand. He will just say... Uh, actually Mountains were created over Millions of years of Stress and tectonic plates, that came from the Earth...That came from the Big bang, that came from.....Coincidental Creation..(Not God).
So, Its only Allah who can do the rest. Not Us. Only Allah can open his Mind to let him Know about Allah. ;D
Why can't the subsequent forces after the big bang be Allah?
And so the way the agnostic understands is with a different visual interpretation thus he does believe in Allah.
peace
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Why can't the force that caused the big bang be Allah (God)? Or the "before" the big bang? as well as after?
Certainly........... bravo
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http//scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2009/12/the_god_equation.php?utm_source=mostactive
This is interesting.
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I guess this is a little abstract...perhaps simple or ambiguous...but I see it this way...
People say to me... "you mean to tell me Allah (God) is Eternal? that doesn't make sense. Thats Dogmatic! how can something be Before the Before...and After the After...? IMPOSSIBLE...NOTHING is Constant and NOTHING is Infinite! LIAR!""
So My reply is that Allah God is the Greatest Mathematician. He Created the entire Universe and All and he is Eternal (before the before/After the after), I say to them that HE created Good and Created bad, and Created the Universe in Many Ways...
Literally,(Physically)...Symbolically(Spiritually)...and in many languages... The UNIVERSAL language is MATH.
Therefore hence when you see a Snow Crystal...it is a Physical thing...bound by Physical Laws of Physics and Science...
But also a Spiritual thing which effects your Spirit (water compounds) and It is Represented in Numbers also...I look at life in two ways... Physical... and Also Mathematical...
Think about the Matrix the movie as a Visual... in One Part Neo is a Mad with Black Sunglasses...Then the Screen Changes...and neo is a bunch of Green Numbers adding up on a Black Background. So Neo is both a Physical person...and also Translation; a Number pattern.Or watch the movie Pi and you'll understand that Numbers and patterns are in the universe around. The Books "Torah" "Ingil" and "Quran" all are composed of Number Sequences...
Then Ill explain the Eternal Part....
Numbers Are Eternal.... They Go from ....to infinity.......-5,-4,-3,-2-1, 0, 1,2,3,4,5.......To infinity.
You can see that in an essence... Numbers are eternal... Before the before...after the after....
Now, I am NOT saying Numbers are God... That is Shirk. ALLAH AKBAR...All I am doing is illustrating that I believe ALLAh who is "The Source" Communicated in a Number of ways.....
Through the use of Numbers. And if this Simple Communication (Numbers) is the ONLY example we can think of Physically that is Eternal...
Then we can establish a fact that...Allah (The Creator) is Above All...and is Omnipotent Omnipresent. He is Beyond the the Human Intellect can even Dream or Imagine. Far more superior than what our Logic and Comprehension may be.I see The Smoke.... But I dont see the One with the Gun.... Meaning....
I see Trees, Mountains, Planets, Space, The Sun, the Moon, and Even NUMBERS!....= All signs of a Creator...(ie Smoke)....
But I DO NOT see the One Holding the GUN. (i.e. I do not see the Creator who Created all of Creation)...
which makes Perfect Sense, Since the Creator (Source) Would have to be Unseen...Hidden because HE is above "Light Complextion, mass, weight, color, Smell, taste, etc... (all attributes of creations).
I see the Bread crumbs...I just dont see the one who left them...and perhaps I will never see the One...because Once you "See" the One...You realize...then...That THAT is NOT the One... because the ONE is above ALL Visual Limitations.
All we can feel is the Spirit that was breathed inside of us. ie. we all have a special connection with the source.
Maybe if we do what He says... we can get Closer to the Source.Also NOTE Allah's Attributes are "The Hidden One" "The Unseen".
I think after an Atheist Thinks about that ...His head will just explode... lol
I think the atheist will just give up giveup and say... "wow, I dont know it all"
I think the Muslims will just give up giveupand say...."wow, I dont know it all either"...
and Inshallah All of Mankind and Jinn will give up giveup and realize they they are the Servant NOT the master.Allah Humbles us. Allah knows All. and is Superior.
Know your place... hail
angel peace
