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  3. Questions/Comments on the Quran
  4. 5:38

5:38

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved Questions/Comments on the Quran
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  • A Offline
    A Offline
    Angel
    wrote on last edited by
    #4

    The next verse, which states "And if they repent, they shall be forgiven", maybe?

    yea so?

    i'm talking about the punishment mate, not the forgiveness part.

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    • N Offline
      N Offline
      nadeem
      wrote on last edited by
      #5

      Peace angel,

      The forgiveness part is crucial. It implies that the punishment should be reversible, in case the thief repents. Cutting hands seems fairly irreversible to me. What do you think?

      Nadeem

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      • U Offline
        U Offline
        unknownuser
        wrote on last edited by
        #6

        Cutting thieves hands is horrendous and barbaric. Perhaps the verse 538 and especially 533 may have been painfully and unduly misunderstood in my opinion.

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        • J Offline
          J Offline
          jankren
          wrote on last edited by
          #7

          JudgeYou are guilty of theft and your hand shall be cut off dude.
          DefendantOh man that sucks for me coz I didnt do it, seriously.
          ExecutionerShut up! Take this! (Censored)

          Sometime Later

          LawyerAccording to newly found evidence my client is not guilty.
          JudgeHmm ... you are right. Ok then so you are not guilty dude.
          DefendantThank God. But wait, how about my chopped off hand?
          JudgeWell, it is too late buddy. You should have presented the evidence before you got your hand chopped off.
          DefendantGod dammit ...

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          • U Offline
            U Offline
            unknownuser
            wrote on last edited by
            #8

            yea so?

            i'm talking about the punishment mate, not the forgiveness part.

            And logic dictates that we take things in context, not as we will. Mate.

            Oh, and in a few years when medicine sufficiently expands, we shall be able to choose either meaning. Yay!

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            • K Offline
              K Offline
              Katara
              wrote on last edited by
              #9

              Perhaps we're supposed to give the thief a second chance when it seems he's really afraid of the punishment or says he'll stop.., it is only by giving a second chance that we get to see if he really repents..

              in other words, the punishment is suspended../ the thief is put on probation..

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              • K Offline
                K Offline
                Katara
                wrote on last edited by
                #10

                And logic dictates that we take things in context, not as we will. Mate.

                Oh, and in a few years when medicine sufficiently expands, we shall be able to choose either meaning. Yay!

                Salam OPF,
                you said "not as we will" but then said "we shall be able to choose.."
                ..and, "either meaning"... i'm confused..

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                • U Offline
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                  unknownuser
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #11

                  Perhaps we're supposed to give the thief a second chance when it seems he's really afraid of the punishment or says he'll stop.., it is only by giving a second chance that we get to see if he really repents..

                  in other words, the punishment is suspended../ the thief is put on probation..

                  No, the order of the verses shows a due process

                  a) accusation

                  b) apprehension of suspect

                  c) trial & jurisdiction

                  d) punishment (chance to repent here)

                  e) repentance, again

                  Now, substitute "cutting off hands" and "cutting off wealth" into d) and see that the prior is not logical.

                  Salam OPF,
                  you said "not as we will" but then said "we shall be able to choose.."
                  ..and, "either meaning"... i'm confused..

                  Prosthetics, cybernetic augmentation, neurology!

                  I.e. when humankind advance such far, the cutting of the hand will be indistinguishable from the cutting of the wealth, likewise, the cutting of the hand can be restored if the thief repents!

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                  • A Offline
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                    Andya_Primanda
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #12

                    so why are quran aloners so inclined to believe that the punishment is not amputating the hands of thieves?

                    I don't have problems with that, personally.

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                    • S Offline
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                      Samia
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #13

                      so why are quran aloners so inclined to believe that the punishment is not amputating the hands of thieves?

                      Because cutting does not mean amputating, even in Arabic ;D

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                      • U Offline
                        U Offline
                        unknownuser
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #14

                        JudgeYou are guilty of theft and your hand shall be cut off dude.
                        DefendantOh man that sucks for me coz I didnt do it, seriously.
                        ExecutionerShut up! Take this! (Censored)

                        Sometime Later

                        LawyerAccording to newly found evidence my client is not guilty.
                        JudgeHmm ... you are right. Ok then so you are not guilty dude.
                        DefendantThank God. But wait, how about my chopped off hand?
                        JudgeWell, it is too late buddy. You should have presented the evidence before you got your hand chopped off.
                        DefendantGod dammit ...

                        rotfl Hey, perhaps in time he may be accused of theft again and there goes his other hand. elektro

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                        • U Offline
                          U Offline
                          unknownuser
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #15

                          JudgeYou are guilty of theft and your hand shall be cut off dude.
                          DefendantOh man that sucks for me coz I didnt do it, seriously.
                          ExecutionerShut up! Take this! (Censored)

                          Sometime Later

                          LawyerAccording to newly found evidence my client is not guilty.
                          JudgeHmm ... you are right. Ok then so you are not guilty dude.
                          DefendantThank God. But wait, how about my chopped off hand?
                          JudgeWell, it is too late buddy. You should have presented the evidence before you got your hand chopped off.
                          DefendantGod dammit ...

                          Oh my god....that is really hilarious .... rotfl rotfl rotfl

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                          • K Offline
                            K Offline
                            Katara
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #16

                            Salam,

                            I hope we're not interpreting an ayat according to our interests.. like, saying hell isn't forever or it is on earth, just because God doesn't show us the true logic of it...

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                            • U Offline
                              U Offline
                              unknownuser
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #17

                              Salam,

                              I hope we're not interpreting an ayat according to our interests.. like, saying hell isn't forever or it is on earth, just because God doesn't show us the true logic of it...

                              Alright, resolve the slight problem of "repenting" after your hands have been cut off, and get back to me.

                              Great general wisdom in that post, however.

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                              • J Offline
                                J Offline
                                Jack
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #18

                                what if he's accused of theft more than 2 times? what gets cut off then?

                                great post jankren

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                                • U Offline
                                  U Offline
                                  unknownuser
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #19

                                  We move onto his feet, duh.

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                                  • J Offline
                                    J Offline
                                    Jack
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #20

                                    or between his feet

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                                    • U Offline
                                      U Offline
                                      unknownuser
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #21

                                      I think

                                      or between his feet

                                      What if it's a woman? A lot of women seem to be accused of theft, based on this, in the Sudan and Somalia?

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                                      • K Offline
                                        K Offline
                                        Katara
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #22

                                        538
                                        And the male thief/robber and female thief/robber, so cut off their (B)'s hands, a reward because what they (B) gathered/acquired, severe exemplary punishment from God, and God (is) glorious/ might, wise/judicious.

                                        539
                                        So who repented from after his injustice/oppression, and he corrected, so that GOD forgives on him, that God (is) a forgiving, merciful.

                                        Impt Question how do we know if God forgives someone or not?

                                        Our duty is as decribed in 538,
                                        while 539 is saying simply what it says..
                                        no contradiction, no complication..

                                        538 is a concept of you reap what you sow/ cause and effect, while forgiveness/repentent is a different story.
                                        for example, someone gossiped about you, you found out about it and the knowledge creates resentment/embarrasment.. but then it is up to you to forgive or not.. resentment/embarrasment is bound to happen..cause and effect.

                                        salam.

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                                        • J Offline
                                          J Offline
                                          jankren
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #23

                                          what if he's accused of theft more than 2 times? what gets cut off then?

                                          great post jankren

                                          How could he steal if he didnt have hands any longer? D

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