STILL DEBATING SALAT?!?
-
Four years ago, salat was being debate and I used to debate it. Now it 2007, Free-Minds/Progressive Muslims are still debating salat?!?
There will never be a consensus of personal opinions. Thats why everyone have there own person interpretation of salat. The reason there is no consensus on what salat mean is due to that fact the "redefinition" of salat is base on no solid foundation and context (the foundation is the Koran context in which it was delivered). No context means no foundation. And no foundation means no consensus, no answers, no solutions, because anything goes. Everyone will create his or her opinion, which simply create dust and confusion, and follow it.
Just a friendly reminder. But when do you each a point where you realize that there may not be a "problem" with the original definition since for four years now there is no answers? 10 more years, 20 more years, even 50 more years? Just a simply question.
-
I'd say 5-23 years is a good limit, seeing as how a "consensus" on alcohol took that roughly long according to hadith.
rotfl
-
I'd say 5-23 years is a good limit, seeing as how a "consensus" on alcohol took that roughly long according to hadith.
rotflrotfl
Well at least I got 23 years before OPF throws in his towel. -
Nope, I have a "consensus" on Salat (for now).
-
Nope, I have a "consensus" on Salat (for now).
Yeah. I'm sure YOU do. But everyone don't agree to it. SO it not a consensus is it.
-
Well, I agree with Wakas p
-
You don't have to agree with anyone. It's between you and God. So we must all follow what makes sense to us individually. A consensus is unnecessary and even harmful.
A consensus is needed on the law verses, division is unnecessary and harmful in that case. But as evidenced by today, the consensus is not a good one whatsoever.
Islam, checks and balances, etc.
-
As Salaamu Alaikum Forum,
I think a consesus would be very helpful for most of those that follow Quran only, IMHO. Al Quran has enough detail about As-Salaat for there to be some consensus on certain things. I think the biggest obstacle is that some members don't want to acknowledge the "physical" aspect of the "ritual" of performing As Salaat, and therefore they focus primarily on the mental and spiritual function of its purpose. Either they reject the physical aspect, or don't see a need to define or perform it because they feel it is not necessary to acheive the mental and spiritual results they recognize as its purpose. I think the aspect that some find it hard to prostrate or submit to Allah in that physical way, also makes it problematic for some. Many just can't see a connection with the benefits by performing the physical element of As-Salaat, which I think is unfortunate, Allah knows best.
{59}
But after them there followed a posterity who missed prayers and followed after lusts soon, then, will they face Destruction,-{60}
Except those who repent and believe, and work righteousness for these will enter the Garden and will not be wronged in the least,-{61}
Gardens of Eternity, those which (Allah) Most Gracious has promised to His servants in the Unseen for His promise must (necessarily) come to pass.As-Salaamu Alaikum, peace
-
A consensus is needed on the law verses, division is unnecessary and harmful in that case. But as evidenced by today, the consensus is not a good one whatsoever.
that's why I think there are no laws in the quran. although it's just a conjecture at this point.
-
that's why I think there are no laws in the quran. although it's just a conjecture at this point.
This is wrong...
I have read laws in the quran myself.
-
Can this thread be the begining of some real "progress" for the progressive muslins? Honestly, a consensus, even if the agreement is right or wrong, will surely expressive growth and a bit of purpose to the debate. although I think re-definition is hopeless, a consensus at least within progressive muslin says something (that four years wasnt wasted).
Honestly, the lack on agreement just testify everyday that this debate is somewhat pointless. Especially when everyone and anyone can simply state and feel like what Lobster said that "...we must all follow what makes sense to us individually" and "A consensus is unnecessary and even harmful."?!?
If individually opinion was necessary to be guidance what is the need for the Koran. If everyone opinions was authority enough, what is the need for the Koran.
-
To do that, you have to bring together all the evidence. As I said before, Side A is bringing 1 third, Side B is bringing another third, and neither get anywhere.
-
To do that, you have to bring together all the evidence. As I said before, Side A is bringing 1 third, Side B is bringing another third, and neither get anywhere.
I thought thats what this "forum" was for? What did Wakas called....an "information platform" to consolidated information. But are you suggesting that even though one presents evidence everyone will still debate and follow their desire? Hmm. Seriously, like why are people still debating this?
-
{59}
But after them there followed a posterity who missed prayers and followed after lusts soon, then, will they face Destruction,-{60}
Except those who repent and believe, and work righteousness for these will enter the Garden and will not be wronged in the least,-{61}
Gardens of Eternity, those which (Allah) Most Gracious has promised to His servants in the Unseen for His promise must (necessarily) come to pass.Salaam IQO, all
IQO, I think the verse you quote might just be against your argument
-
1959 "But after them"....After whom? Do you think God is talking about our forum?
-
1960-61 "Except those.....", I understand that this is a description for those who did not lose the "salaat". Is it also the definition of "salaat"?
-
-
Peace,
It seems as if there is no satisfying the critics, not that any of us ever wanted to.
If we think for ourselves, we're priests, interpreting as we deem fit . If we submit to a single idea, we're a cult and brainwashed.
We cannot force a consensus. We must patiently await its arrival. Muhammad himself struggled to unify Arabia for more then decades. Four years is next to nothing in comparison.
Nadeem
-
But nadeem,the quran has been around for 1400 years.....And the quran does mention 'shurah',i dont think its meant to mean 4 years and running......
-
As-Salaamu Alaika Samia,
Quote from ImamQuranonly on Yesterday at 050957 PM
{59}
But after them there followed a posterity who missed prayers and followed after lusts soon, then, will they face Destruction,-{60}
Except those who repent and believe, and work righteousness for these will enter the Garden and will not be wronged in the least,-{61}
Gardens of Eternity, those which (Allah) Most Gracious has promised to His servants in the Unseen for His promise must (necessarily) come to pass.Salaam IQO, all
IQO, I think the verse you quote might just be against your argument
-
1959 "But after them"....After whom? Do you think God is talking about our forum?
-
1960-61 "Except those.....", I understand that this is a description for those who did not lose the "salaat". Is it also the definition of "salaat"?
-
To me 1959 can refer to any people that lived after those mentioned in 1958, which would include any people alive now or in the future.
-
No, it is not the definition of As-Salaat, that is clearly detailed and defined in Al Quran for those whom Allah chooses to bless with understanding. According to some here, my "ritual" portion of the function of As-Salaat would not be As-Salaat at all, and therefore I would have "missed, lost" my Salaat. Likewise, I believe that those who ignore the clear commands to perform the physical ritual portion of As-Salaat are "missing, losing" their Salaat. But Allah knows best, in my eyes, Al Quran is clear on the subject and only those who wish to deviate seek for other meanings. Surely they probably feel the same about me.
As-Salaamu Alaikum, peace
-
