7 heavens
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7 Layers of Heaven
Arabic Translation
By Ali Sina
Dear Ali,
Please explain the claim that Muhammad predicted the layers of the atmosphere 1400 years ago when this knowledge was not yet known. Here is the claim
The Layers of the Atmosphere
One fact about the universe revealed in the verses of the Qur'an is that the sky is made up of seven layers.
"It is He Who created everything on the earth for you and then directed His attention up to heaven and arranged it into seven regular heavens. He has knowledge of all things."
(The Qur'an, 229)"Then He turned to heaven when it was smoke. In two days He determined them as seven heavens and revealed, in every heaven, its own mandate."
(The Qur'an, 4112)The word "heavens", which appears in many verses in the Qur'an, is used to refer to the sky above the Earth, as well as the entire universe. Given this meaning of the word, it is seen that the Earth's sky, or the atmosphere, is made up of seven layers.
The Earth has all the attributes that are needed for life. One of them is the atmosphere, which serves as a shield protecting living things. Today, it is an established fact that the atmosphere is made up of different layers lying on top of one another. Just as it is described in the Qur'an, the atmosphere is made up of exactly seven layers. This is certainly one of the miracles of the Qur'an.
Indeed, today it is known that the world's atmosphere consists of different layers that lie on top of each other. Furthermore, it consists, just as is described in the Qur'an, of exactly seven layers. In a scientific source, the subject is described as follows
14 centuries ago, when the sky was believed to be one unified body, the Qur'an miraculously stated that it consisted of layers, and what is more, "seven" layers. Modern science, on the other hand, discovered the fact that the atmosphere surrounding the Earth is made up of "seven" basic layers only very recently.
The above claim was made by Harun Yahya in his site but after I published the following rebuttal he removed that page from his site. You can still find what he wrote in this Islamic site.
The Truth About 7 Layers of HeavenThe pre Copernican concept of the universe was geocentric, i.e. they thought that the Earth was flat and was located at the center of the universe. They believed that the Sun and the Moon along with Saturn, Jupiter, Mars, Venus and Mercury that made the seven known objects of the heaven were deities. These were the only objects people could observe with their naked eyes moving in the sky while the stars appeared to be fix.
Pre-Copernican Universe Notion
They believed that these planets or ?gods? each had its own sphere. These layers are not the same as the orbits that we know. The planets did not orbit the Sun but they all revolved around the flat Earth in this order
Ancient Egyptians and Greeks both concocted myths about the moon to explain why year length had changed from 360 to 365 days. Speculation about Archangels quotes the Catholic Encyclopedia as saying 'The name Lucifer originally denotes the planet Venus...' View a Martian Calendar There have been at least six different notions about Saturn thru the ages.
Moon Mercury Venus Sun Mars Jupiter SaturnThe closest to the Earth was the Moon and the farthest, was the Saturn. Therefore the concept of the 7 layers of heaven is based on ancient astronomy, where each celestial body occupied a crystal sphere one placed on top of the other like layers of an onion. .
Both Judaism and Christianity make reference to these layers of heaven. For example Dante in his Divina Comedia refers to it and Paul the apostle, in 2 Corinthians 122 says ?I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven. Whether it was in the body or out of the body I do not know?God knows.?
The heaven was the physical world above. The concept of a spiritual heaven is a new concept. In the mind of the ancient man the distinction between physical heaven (sky) and spiritual heaven was fuzzy. For example ?cielo? in Spanish still means both sky and heaven.
Not only the Heaven had seven layers, the Earth also had seven layers and it represented the underworld or the Hell. Dante, for example on visiting the lowest level of Hell meets two men with their bodies split and he learns that they were Muhammad and Ali. He describes his encounter with these two wretched men graphically
?Truly cask, by losing mid-board or cross-piece, is not so split open as one I saw cleft from the chin to where the wind is broken between his legs were hanging his entrails, his inner parts were visible, and the dismal sack that makes ordure of what is swallowed. Whilst all on seeing him I fix myself, he looked at me, and with his hands opened his breast, saying, "Now see how I rend myself, see how mangled is Mahomet. Ali goeth before me weeping, cleft in the face from chin to forelock; and all the others whom thou seest here were, when living, sowers of scandal and of schism, and therefore are they so cleft.?
The number seven was so engrained in the mind of the ancient man that you can find it everywhere.
Seven planets or gods had been identified and the phases of the moon changed every seven days. The Bible states that God rested on the seventh day after he completed his Creation. And every seventh year was sabbatical and that the seven times seventh year ushered in the Jubilee year.
The Pagans divided their weeks in seven days each day representing a deity.
Saturday which was the first day of the week (as it still is in Islamic countries) was dedicated to Saturn (Dies Saturni),
2.Sunday to Sun (Dies Solis),
3.Monday to Moon (Dies Lunae),
4.Tuesday to Mars (Dies Martis),
5.Wednesday to Mercury (Dies Mercurii),
6.Thursday to Jupiter (Dies Jovis), and
7.Friday to Venus (Dies Veneris).
Out of this order come the familiar seven Archangels which include Michael, Gabriel, Raphael, Uriel, Raguel, Sariel, and the fallen Lucifer.
The pagan concept of the seven layer of Heaven crept into Judaism and the number seven can be found in Judaism more than anywhere else. Why? Because Midrash teaches, there are seven layers of Heaven, obviously an influence of Paganism in Judaism.
?When Adam sinned, the Shechinah departed to the First Heaven. The sin of Kayin forced it to the Second Heaven; the Generation of Enosh to the Third; the generation of the Flood to the Fourth; The generation of the Dispersion to the Fifth; Sodomites, to the Sixth; Egypt of Avraham's day, to the Seventh ... (Bereishis Rabbah 197)?
According to Judaic scriptures, creation took 7 days; Naaman had to wash 7 times in the Jordan to be cleansed from leprosy; the Israelites had to march around Jericho 7 days and 7 times on the 7th day; they had to set aside one day in 7 for rest and worship. There was a 7-armed lampstand in the temple, etc. In the last book, Revelation, we find mentioned 7 spirits, 7 lampstands, 7 churches, 7 stars, 7 seals, 7 trumpets, 7 vials, 7 thunders, 7 plagues, 7 mountains and 7 kings. The tribulation period is to be 7 years being the last "week of years" of Daniel's 70 weeks (Dan 924 ff).
Muhammad did not invent the concept of the seven layers of Heaven. He merely parroted it without understanding the Pagan origin of this idea. He wrote
?So He ordained them seven heavens in two periods, and revealed in every heaven its affair; and We adorned the lower heaven with brilliant stars? ?(Fussilat 41 12)
This verse has nothing to do with layers of the atmospheres as claimed by the charlatan Harun Yahya. It has to do with the geocentric concept of the universe that was prevalent at the time of Muhammad. Note also that according to Muhammad, stars are lamps that are affixed to the ceiling of the lower layer of the Heaven for adornment purposes. The lower level is the sphere of the Moon. Obviously stars are not in the same layer where Moon is and neither the Moon nor the stars are in the lower atmosphere of the Earth.
In fact the concept of the layers of heaven as mentioned in the Quran is so unrelated to the layers of the atmosphere that the Islamic site www.understanding-islam.com tries to give a completely mystical significance to that verse and claims that it talks about the "spiritual heavens" which the soul will encounter after the death.
?The reference to the fact that God has created seven heavens has generally been given in the Qur?an, in reply to the skepticism shown by the disbelievers regarding the possibility of life after death. ? it refers to the vastness of His creation. It says that God has not just created one sky -- i.e., one universe, but seven such skies -- or seven universes.
It seems that the huge universe that we live in, the one whose boundaries are not yet known to man, is just one of these heavens (universes) there are seven others, of which we -- with all our scientific developments -- do not know anything about. Certain verses of the Qur?an clearly indicate that the whole huge mass of space around us is just one of these universes...?
The Islamic site www.pakistanlink.com quotes Maududi, the renowned Muslim scholar and the interpreter of the Quran who says
?It is difficult to explain precisely what is meant by the ?seven heavens?. In all ages man has tried, with the help of observation and speculation to conceptualize the ?heavens?, i.e. that which lies beyond and above the earth. As we know the concepts that have thus developed have constantly changed. Hence it would be improper to tie the meaning of these words of the Qur?an to any one of these numerous concepts. What might be broadly inferred from this statement is that either Allah has divided the universe beyond earth into seven distinct spheres, or that this earth is located in that part of the universe which consists of seven different spheres."
From the Ahadith (especially the Hadith of Mi?raj) we learn that the first heaven is the one that is closest to the earth. So the order begins from the earth and the highest heaven is the seventh heaven .
As one can see the real scholars of Islam are unable to explain the meaning of the seven heavens mentioned in the Quran and try to give esoteric significance to it. If we had to believe that the seven heavens is an allusion to the seven layers of the atmosphere then we have to assume that stars must be no more than eleven kilometers above the Earth, because as the verse 4112 says the lower heaven is adorned with brilliant stars. The Troposphere ends at about eleven kilometers above the surface of the Earth.
Not only Muhammad, like other men of his time, believed that the sky had seven layers, he also thought that the Earth was made of seven layers too.
?Allah is He Who created seven Firmaments and of the earth a similar number??
In this verse the number of the earths is not in question. It assumes that everyone agrees that there are seven earths. The emphasis is on the claim that Allah is the creator of these seven earths. The reason is because just like the seven heavens, the ancient people had agreed that there were also seven layers of earth. Muhammad was simply stating what seemed to be obvious to the people of his time but of course he was dead wrong according to the modern science.
What are these seven earths that Muhammad was talking about? If there were seven continents on Earth, the Muslim apologists would not waste time to claim this verse is a miracle. But we do not have seven continents. Muhammad is talking about the seven layers of Earth. He is talking about the same layers that were described by Dante in his Inferno. Several hadith make this clear. Here is one
Allah's Apostle said, "Whoever usurps the land of somebody unjustly, his neck will be encircled with it down the seven earths (on the Day of Resurrection). "
Down the seventh earth is allusion to the bottom of the Hell, where Dante found Muhammad and Ali with their bodies torn asunder. It is interesting to note that both Muhammad and Ali raided innocent people killed them or exiled them and usurped their lands unjustly. Fadak was a beautiful village with many gardens that Muhammad usurped from the Jews of Khaibar after annihilating them and gave it to his daughter Fatima the wife of Ali. I am surprised Dante did not see Fadak around the neck of Muhammad and Ali when he saw them in Hell. Isn't this another proof that even their description of Hell was wrong?
The detailed description of these seven earths is given by Muhammad ibn 'Abd Allah al-Kisa'i
?... There are seven earths. The first is called Ramaka, beneath which is the Barren Wind, which can be bridled by no fewer than seventy thousand angels. With this wind God destroyed the people of Ad. The inhabitants of Ramaka are a nation called Muwashshim, upon whom is everlasting torment and divine retribution. The second earth is called Khalada, wherein are the implements of torture for the inhabitants of Hell. There dwells a nation called Tamis, whose food is their own flesh and whose drink is their own blood. The third earth is called Arqa, wherein dwell mulelike eagles with spearlike tails. On each tail are three hundred and sixty poisonous quills. Were even one quill placed on the face of the earth, the entire universe would pass away. The inhabitants thereof are a nation called Qays, who eat dirt and drink mothers' milk. The fourth earth is called Haraba, wherein dwell the snakes of Hell, which are as large as mountains. Each snake has fangs like tall palm trees, and if they were to strike the hugest mountain with their fangs it would be leveled to the ground. The inhabitants of this earth are a nation called Jilla, and they have no eyes, hands or feet but have wings like bats and die only of old age. The fifth earth is called Maltham, wherein stones of sulphur hang around the necks of infidels. When the fire is kindled the fuel is placed on their breasts, and the flames leap up onto their faces, as He hath said The fire whose fuel is men and stones (224), and Fire shall cover their faces (1450). The inhabitants are a nation called Hajla, who are numerous and who eat each other. The sixth earth is called Sijjin. Here are the registers of the people of Hell, and their works are vile, as He hath said Verily the register of the actions of the wicked is surely Sijjin (837). Herein dwells a nation called Qatat, who are shaped like birds and worship God truly. The seventh earth is called Ajiba and is the habitation of Iblis. There dwells a nation called Khasum, who are BLACK and short, with claws like lions. It is they who will be given dominion over Gog and Magog, who will be destroyed by them?
It is not hard to see these tales are nonsense. These are fairy tales that even children today would laugh at.
As it has been proven time and again, Quran is wrong in almost all its assertions. One error would have been enough to prove Muhammad was not a messenger of God but a liar. We have shown that there are hundreds of errors in the Quran. Yet Muslims desperately keep looking for ?miracles? to fool themselves and find validation for their belief.
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Saba means 7 or Several in Classic Arabic. In the Quran, it is always used as Several and NOT as 7.
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Decked the lower heavens with stars? wtf??
sounds like it was written by a professional astronomer.seriously, though, "heavens" isn't what we think it is. It can't possibly be talking about the universe because it just makes absolutely No sense.
or maybe it's talking about something we'll find out thousands of years later. yeah, that makes perfect sense.
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Okay.....I'm back.....
As I can see and understand at this point in my development, with my inclinations to look at the natural world around me for clues into the deeper meanings of things, the saba'a samawaat refers to the seven natural laws that govern and characterize all of creation as we know it -- which fits beautifully in the below quoted verses
It is He Who created everything on the earth for you and then directed His attention up to heaven and arranged it into seven regular heavens. He has knowledge of all things."
(The Qur'an, 229)"Then He turned to heaven when it was smoke. In two days He determined them as seven heavens and revealed, in every heaven, its own mandate."
(The Qur'an, 4112)?Allah is He Who created seven Firmaments and of the earth a similar number??
And with the definition from the Project Root List for "S-M-W"
"ismun - mark of identification by which one is recognised. It is a derivation of wsm (pl. asma). ism - stands for a distinguishing mark of a thing, sometimes said to signify its reality."
However, I will be the first to admit that this view has been formed in my heart and mind as I have accumulated knowledge in general, and I have not pursued an in depth analysis...
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Decked the lower heavens with stars? wtf??
sounds like it was written by a professional astronomer.seriously, though, "heavens" isn't what we think it is. It can't possibly be talking about the universe because it just makes absolutely No sense.
or maybe it's talking about something we'll find out thousands of years later. yeah, that makes perfect sense.
Hehe, I can see what you mean, but the verse doesn't directly instruct the reader to look for signs in this ^_^
I still think it means universes - or something to that effect because of the following verses
037.006
YUSUFALI We have indeed decked the lower heaven with beauty (in) the stars,-
PICKTHAL Lo! We have adorned the lowest heaven with an ornament, the planets;
SHAKIR Surely We have adorned the nearest heaven with an adornment, the stars,037.007
YUSUFALI (For beauty) and for guard against all obstinate rebellious evil spirits,
PICKTHAL With security from every froward devil.
SHAKIR And (there is) a safeguard against every rebellious Shaitan.037.008
YUSUFALI (So) they should not strain their ears in the direction of the Exalted Assembly but be cast away from every side,
PICKTHAL They cannot listen to the Highest Chiefs for they are pelted from every side,
SHAKIR They cannot listen to the exalted assembly and they are thrown at from every side,037.009
YUSUFALI Repulsed, for they are under a perpetual penalty,
PICKTHAL Outcast, and theirs is a perpetual torment;
SHAKIR Being driven off, and for them is a perpetual chastisement,037.010
YUSUFALI Except such as snatch away something by stealth, and they are pursued by a flaming fire, of piercing brightness.
PICKTHAL Save him who snatcheth a fragment, and there pursueth him a piercing flame.
SHAKIR Except him who snatches off but once, then there follows him a brightly shining flame.037.011
YUSUFALI Just ask their opinion are they the more difficult to create, or the (other) beings We have created? Them have We created out of a sticky clay!
PICKTHAL Then ask them (O Muhammad) Are they stronger as a creation, or those (others) whom we have created? Lo! We created them of plastic clay.
SHAKIR Then ask them whether they are stronger in creation or those (others) whom We have created. Surely We created them of firm clay.Saba means 7 or Several in Classic Arabic. In the Quran, it is always used as Several and NOT as 7.
Are you sure?
2196, 1243 (and following verses), 1587 (interesting one in itself), 1822, 69007 (definitely 7 since it has 7 days vs 8 nights) all have 7 as the number and not as "several".
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Peace OPF,
Thanks for the correction. What I meant was when Saba is used with Creation or examples it means several, same accounts for Yauw which can be Period and Day, with creation it is six periods, not six days.
Saba in classic Arabic is used for several. For example this verse was misunderstood to be talking about Surah Al-Fatiha, but then it would fall out of context with the surroundign verses.
1587 We have given you several examples from history that repeats itself, and We have given you this Sublime Qur?an
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It may please be noted that Quran e Majeed has never said that the sky of the earth is adorned with stars.
In na_ zay yan nas sama_ ad dun ya_ bizinatinil kawa_kib
We have adorned the lower sky with Planets. {3706}Root can never be translated as ?star? since Quran e Majeed has made a clear distinction between the celestial bodies. First time this word occurs in 676
Falamma_ janna 'alaihil lailu ra'a_ kaukaba_(n)Here one thing has been made conspicuous ?darkness of the night? and he saw one . At night there are numerous stars visible to naked eye. Quran e Majeed came in 7th century but people have known the distinction between stars and planets from couple of centuries BC.The basic difference between both, as we know, is that stars emit light but planets don?t have own light, they reflect light. How both could have same meanings and termed as stars?
After sun and moon, planet Venus is the mist shining object. It is visible on sky three hours before sunrise and for three hours after sunset. After these three object planet Jupiter is the brightest object. It is three times brighter than the brightest star Sirius. Because of its prominence, the Romans had given it name Jupiter after the name of their bigger god, idol.
Al Qurtabi says
Al Jalalain saysWho was right?
The difference between Venus and Jupiter is that Venus after three hours disappears and is not visible till three hours before sunset. Jupiter, when it is visible from earth, does not disappear but remains visible. And Quran e Majeed tells that the planet which was seen by Ibrahim {Peace is upon him} had then disappeared {} from their sight. Thus it is clear that he had pointed towards Venus after quite some time of sunset but within three hours of the sunset.Quran has drawn a vivid distinction between planets and stars. It says
Wa huwal lazi ja'ala lakumun nuju_ma litahtadu_ biha_ fi zulumatil barri wal bahr(i), qad fassalnal a_ya_ti liqaumiy ya'lamu_n(a).
Allah is one who has appointed for you stars so that you may guide/find direction yourselves with their help through the dark {unmarked} spaces of land and sea We have made distinct Our Ayat so that people may know/get informed. {697}
wa bin najmi hum yahtadu_n(a).
And with one star they get the direction/destination/guidance.{Ref 1616}Quran has never said that people can get guidance/direction from Kwakib, Planets. And neither said that the sky of earth is adorned with Najoom, stars.
Distinction between them is also visible from their end.
Wa idzal kawa_kibun tatsarat
Wa idzal biha_ru fuj jirat {Ref 8202-03}?un tatsarat? and ?fuj jirat? have the commonality of ?scatter?. Both reflect light and absorb light.
And the end of Stars is this
Wa idzan nuju_mun kadarat
When the stars fall losing their luster/light; {Ref 8102}Fa iza nuju_mu tumisat
Wa izal jiba_lu nusifat
Then when the stars become scattered;
When the mountains are scattered (to the winds) as dust ;{ Ref 77 08, 10}Faka_nat haba_ am mun bats sa_
{Mountains} Becoming dust/Gases scattered {Ref 5610}
And we know stars are massive shining sphere of hot gas {dust like}.As regards Harun Yahya?s opinion
?The word "heavens", which appears in many verses in the Qur'an, is used to refer to the sky above the Earth, as well as the entire universe. Given this meaning of the word, it is seen that the Earth's sky, or the atmosphere, is made up of seven layers. (Layers of Atmosphere-Miracles of Quran-Harun Yahya)It is not correct. It amounts to negating the vastness of words/concepts of Arabic Language and also negates what Quran calls about its Ayat ??.
We are not yet aware of the vastness of skies and will never be able to conceive/perceive it since it is expanding all the time. But Quran has given details of our solar system in an elaborate manner. When one sky has that vastness how can this word be used for seven layers of atmosphere?
Perhaps seven layers of atmosphere are mentioned here
Wa laqad halaqnal insa_na min sula_latim min tin
Sum ma jaalna_hu nutfaran fi qara_rim makin
Sum ma halaqnan nutfata alaqatan fahalaqnal alaqata mudgatan fahalaqnal mudgata iza_man fa kasaunal iza_ma lahma_ sum ma ansana_hu halqan a_har fataba_rakal la_hu ahsanul ha_liqin
Sum ma in nakum bada za_lika lamay yitu_n
Sum ma in nakum yaumal qiya_mati tubasu_n
Wa laqad halaqna_ fauqakum saba tara_iq wa ma_ kun na_ anil halqi ga_filin
And in the past We had made above you seven tracts; and We are never unmindful of (safety of our) Creation {2312-16}Wa banaina_ fauqakum saban syida_da_
And (have We not) built over you the seven firmaments {Ref 7812}And perhaps reason for these seven layers is told in the next verse
Wa ja'alna_ sira_jaw wah ha_ja_Nature of sun is explained by the word wah ha_ja. This is dangerous. These seven layers protect from this feature of the sun.
May Allah guide us all. -
Salaam bro Mazhar,
Thank you for this excellent understanding.
It may please be noted that Quran e Majeed has never said that the sky of the earth is adorned with stars.
In na_ zay yan nas sama_ ad dun ya_ bizinatinil kawa_kib
We have adorned the lower sky with Planets. {3706}Root can never be translated as ?star? since Quran e Majeed has made a clear distinction between the celestial bodies. First time this word occurs in 676
Falamma_ janna 'alaihil lailu ra'a_ kaukaba_(n)Here one thing has been made conspicuous ?darkness of the night? and he saw one . At night there are numerous stars visible to naked eye. Quran e Majeed came in 7th century but people have known the distinction between stars and planets from couple of centuries BC.The basic difference between both, as we know, is that stars emit light but planets don?t have own light, they reflect light. How both could have same meanings and termed as stars?
After sun and moon, planet Venus is the mist shining object. It is visible on sky three hours before sunrise and for three hours after sunset. After these three object planet Jupiter is the brightest object. It is three times brighter than the brightest star Sirius. Because of its prominence, the Romans had given it name Jupiter after the name of their bigger god, idol.
Al Qurtabi says
Al Jalalain saysWho was right?
The difference between Venus and Jupiter is that Venus after three hours disappears and is not visible till three hours before sunset. Jupiter, when it is visible from earth, does not disappear but remains visible. And Quran e Majeed tells that the planet which was seen by Ibrahim {Peace is upon him} had then disappeared {} from their sight. Thus it is clear that he had pointed towards Venus after quite some time of sunset but within three hours of the sunset.Quran has drawn a vivid distinction between planets and stars. It says
Wa huwal lazi ja'ala lakumun nuju_ma litahtadu_ biha_ fi zulumatil barri wal bahr(i), qad fassalnal a_ya_ti liqaumiy ya'lamu_n(a).
Allah is one who has appointed for you stars so that you may guide/find direction yourselves with their help through the dark {unmarked} spaces of land and sea We have made distinct Our Ayat so that people may know/get informed. {697}
wa bin najmi hum yahtadu_n(a).
And with one star they get the direction/destination/guidance.{Ref 1616}Quran has never said that people can get guidance/direction from Kwakib, Planets. And neither said that the sky of earth is adorned with Najoom, stars.
Distinction between them is also visible from their end.
Wa idzal kawa_kibun tatsarat
Wa idzal biha_ru fuj jirat {Ref 8202-03}?un tatsarat? and ?fuj jirat? have the commonality of ?scatter?. Both reflect light and absorb light.
And the end of Stars is this
Wa idzan nuju_mun kadarat
When the stars fall losing their luster/light; {Ref 8102}Fa iza nuju_mu tumisat
Wa izal jiba_lu nusifat
Then when the stars become scattered;
When the mountains are scattered (to the winds) as dust ;{ Ref 77 08, 10}Faka_nat haba_ am mun bats sa_
{Mountains} Becoming dust/Gases scattered {Ref 5610}
And we know stars are massive shining sphere of hot gas {dust like}.As regards Harun Yahya?s opinion
?The word "heavens", which appears in many verses in the Qur'an, is used to refer to the sky above the Earth, as well as the entire universe. Given this meaning of the word, it is seen that the Earth's sky, or the atmosphere, is made up of seven layers. (Layers of Atmosphere-Miracles of Quran-Harun Yahya)It is not correct. It amounts to negating the vastness of words/concepts of Arabic Language and also negates what Quran calls about its Ayat ??.
We are not yet aware of the vastness of skies and will never be able to conceive/perceive it since it is expanding all the time. But Quran has given details of our solar system in an elaborate manner. When one sky has that vastness how can this word be used for seven layers of atmosphere?
Perhaps seven layers of atmosphere are mentioned here
Wa laqad halaqnal insa_na min sula_latim min tin
Sum ma jaalna_hu nutfaran fi qara_rim makin
Sum ma halaqnan nutfata alaqatan fahalaqnal alaqata mudgatan fahalaqnal mudgata iza_man fa kasaunal iza_ma lahma_ sum ma ansana_hu halqan a_har fataba_rakal la_hu ahsanul ha_liqin
Sum ma in nakum bada za_lika lamay yitu_n
Sum ma in nakum yaumal qiya_mati tubasu_n
Wa laqad halaqna_ fauqakum saba tara_iq wa ma_ kun na_ anil halqi ga_filin
And in the past We had made above you seven tracts; and We are never unmindful of (safety of our) Creation {2312-16}Wa banaina_ fauqakum saban syida_da_
And (have We not) built over you the seven firmaments {Ref 7812}And perhaps reason for these seven layers is told in the next verse
Wa ja'alna_ sira_jaw wah ha_ja_Nature of sun is explained by the word wah ha_ja. This is dangerous. These seven layers protect from this feature of the sun.
May Allah guide us all. -
Ya ! i agree too, kokab is not a meteor but a planet, this further endorses brother Edip's view of 11 planets in solar system as per yousaf's dream.
12-4 Recall that Joseph said to his father, "O my father, I saw eleven planets (kokabaa, not Najoom), and the sun, and the moon; I saw them prostrating before me
siki
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It may please be noted that Quran e Majeed has never said that the sky of the earth is adorned with stars.
In na_ zay yan nas sama_ ad dun ya_ bizinatinil kawa_kib
We have adorned the lower sky with Planets. {3706}Peace Mazhar,
Great work! Thank you for sharing it with us. sun
This makes a big difference in how we can look into this subject. In fact, it makes me wonder, is there a relationship between Venus as described in AQ and times that we are to connect with God??
God bless!
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Thanks sisters and brothers for encouragement.
Quran says
Wa huwal lazi ja'ala lakumun nuju_ma litahtadu_ biha_ fi zulumatil barri wal bahr(i), qad fassalnal a_ya_ti liqaumiy ya'lamu_n(a).
Allah is one who has appointed for you stars so that you may guide/find direction yourselves with their help through the dark {unmarked} spaces of land and sea We have made distinct Our Ayat so that people may know/get informed. {697}
wa bin najmi hum yahtadu_n(a).
And with one star they get the direction/destination/guidance.{Ref 1616}While studying Quran e Majeed to find the facts/information/data about the Universe {}and writing them down under the caption ?Quran in the 21st Century?, the above two verses caused me sadistic pleasure since someone inspired that I have caught a contradiction in Quran. At one place it has used plural ?? who give direction and in the second it uses single star ??. But thanks to Allah, it immediately came to mind that should I refuse even if I could not comprehend it.
The beauty of Quran is that it was initially addressing the desert men and was meant for the posterity of humanity in time and space. The statement was comprehensively understandable to the desert men, since more than two stars serve as pointers and one star, pole/north star is the one with which direction is determined.
And today we can more appreciate and enjoy the beauty and precision of Quran when we know that even ?Pole/North Star? is not the one but many in the passage of time. Today Pole Star is Polaris. But in 7500 there will be some other star as Pole Star; and in 15000 there will still be another one and after 9000 years today?s Pole Star Polaris will again be the North/Pole Star.
Quote with thanks from Encarta
?North Star or Polestar, conspicuous star in the northern hemisphere, located closest to the point toward which the axis of the earth is directed, thus roughly marking the location of the north celestial pole. A polestar has been used by navigators throughout recorded history for charting navigation routes and is still used for determining true azimuth and astronomic latitude. The positions of the celestial poles change as the earth's axis moves with the earth's precessional motion (see Ecliptic), and as the north celestial pole assumes different positions relative to the constellations, different stars become the North Star.
Big Dipper, common name applied to a conspicuous constellation in the northern celestial hemisphere, near the North Pole. It was known to the ancient Greeks as the Bear and the Wagon and to the Romans as Ursa Major (the Great Bear) and Septentriones (Seven Plowing Oxen). The seven brightest stars of the constellation form the easily identified outline of a giant dipper. In Europe, the pattern is known as the Plow, Charles's (Charlemagne's) Wain, and the Wagon; among the Hindus, it represents the seven rishis, or holy ancient sages. Of the seven stars constituting the Big Dipper, six are of the second magnitude and one is of the third magnitude. Two of the second-magnitude stars, alpha (a) and beta (?) Ursa Major, which form the outer edge of the bowl, point directly to the North Star, or Polaris, and hence are called the Pointers?Now consider the similarity between the Messengers and Pointers. All of them pointed towards only one source for guidance, the Book of Allah. Messengers, like the North Star kept changing in time and space, but the location of point of guidance remained the same. If a group of people differs in the unmarked areas of earth and waters about the direction, which will come to their guidance? North Pole, none else. Anyone who takes it as a guide to know the right direction will find the path and the one who refuses to take it as a guide shall remain wandering. This suggests Quran Alone if one wishes to reach the destination safe and sound. But this is the dilemma of humanity that while they know vividly that there cannot be two sources of guidance, yet run away from the Book to meet their own desires and choices in life.
For Urdu readers there is a topic on my website ?What is Hidayat? Where can we find it?? ??Quran e Majeed is Al Huda and Hadi {The Guide}? on this link http//haqeeqat.org.pk/book_6/20/slides/1.html -
Peace siki,
Ya ! i agree too, kokab is not a meteor but a planet, this further endorses brother Edip's view of 11 planets in solar system as per yousaf's dream.
12-4 Recall that Joseph said to his father, "O my father, I saw eleven planets (kokabaa, not Najoom), and the sun, and the moon; I saw them prostrating before me
siki
The dream was a metaphor (parents and brothers bowing) see verses 125 and 12100?
12100 And he raised his parents high on the throne (of dignity), and they fell down in prostration, (all) before him. He said "O my father! this is the fulfilment of my vision of old! Allah hath made it come true! He was indeed good to me when He took me out of prison and brought you (all here) out of the desert, (even) after Satan had sown enmity between me and my brothers. Verily my Lord understandeth best the mysteries of all that He planneth to do, for verily He is full of knowledge and wisdom.
1246 "O Joseph!" (he said) "O man of truth! Expound to us (the dream) of SEVEN fat kine whom SEVEN lean ones devour, and of SEVEN green ears of corn and (SEVEN) others withered that I may return to the people, and that they may understand."
Alam taraw kayfa khalaqa Allahu sabAAa samawatin tibaqan
7115 "'See ye not how Allah has created the SEVEN heavens one above another,WajaAAala alqamara feehinna nooran wajaAAala alshshamsa sirajan
7116 "'And made the moon a light in their midst, and made the sun as a (Glorious) Lamp?Says look at the sky and see the SEVEN HEAVENS (metaphoric for plentiful grandeur).
http//www.vbcsanrafael.com/images/84/Sun%20and%20Moon%20at%20North%20Pole.jpg
Peace sun
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12100 And he raised his parents high on the throne (of dignity), and they fell down in prostration, (all) before him. He said "O my father! this is the fulfilment of my vision of old! Allah hath made it come true! He was indeed good to me when He took me out of prison and brought you (all here) out of the desert, (even) after Satan had sown enmity between me and my brothers. Verily my Lord understandeth best the mysteries of all that He planneth to do, for verily He is full of knowledge and wisdom.{Nun de plume}
What has been said is the statement and perception of the translator; not the words of Allah.
My little understanding of Arabic notwithstanding, may I suggest that the translation and perception being drawn from it do not go along with the words used in the verse. 11 brothers were not taken to the throne. Only father and mother were taken up the throne. Two in Arabic does not make plural. For plural there has to be more than two. And statement of Quran is this
Wa rafa'a abawaihi 'alal 'arsyi wa kharru_ lahu_ sujjada_(n),
?And Yousaf took his father and mother upwards to throne; and they all fell into Sajda for Him {Allah mentioned immediately before it by Yousaf in 1299}?Brothers have not been taken to the throne. They have not performed Sajda. Yet kharru has been used, it is plural. If only father and mother would have went into Sajda before Yousaf {peace is upon him} this word could not be used. The people who went to Sajda on the throne are more than two. The third one is Yousalf {Peace is upon him}. Yousaf took/accompanied his father and mother to the throne. When all three reached up on the throne they three fell for Allah into Sajda.
The only difference between the ?Sajda? of everything in Universe and that of human beings is kharru_ and touching their forehead on ground.
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Peace siki,
The dream was a metaphor (parents and brothers bowing) see verses 125 and 12100?
12100 And he raised his parents high on the throne (of dignity), and they fell down in prostration, (all) before him. He said "O my father! this is the fulfilment of my vision of old! Allah hath made it come true! He was indeed good to me when He took me out of prison and brought you (all here) out of the desert, (even) after Satan had sown enmity between me and my brothers. Verily my Lord understandeth best the mysteries of all that He planneth to do, for verily He is full of knowledge and wisdom.
peace NUN
No body is doubting the above understanding for yousaf, but what i am trying to say is, "This points towards another important message from almighty to us humans as well, which is;
Planets are 12.
peace
siki
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What has been said is the statement and perception of the translator; not the words of Allah.
My little understanding of Arabic notwithstanding, may I suggest that the translation and perception being drawn from it do not go along with the words used in the verse. 11 brothers were not taken to the throne. Only father and mother were taken up the throne. Two in Arabic does not make plural. For plural there has to be more than two. And statement of Quran is this
Wa rafa'a abawaihi 'alal 'arsyi wa kharru_ lahu_ sujjada_(n),
And Yousaf took his father and mother upwards to throne; and they all fell into Sajda for Him {Allah mentioned immediately before it by Yousaf in 1299}Brothers have not been taken to the throne. They have not performed Sajda. Yet kharru has been used, it is plural. If only father and mother would have went into Sajda before Yousaf {peace is upon him} this word could not be used. The people who went to Sajda on the throne are more than two. The third one is Yousalf {Peace is upon him}. Yousaf took/accompanied his father and mother to the throne. When all three reached up on the throne they three fell for Allah into Sajda.
The only difference between the Sajda of everything in Universe and that of human beings is kharru_ and touching their forehead on ground.
yes Seems logical to me. Samia ! any opinions ?
siki
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What has been said is the statement and perception of the translator; not the words of Allah.
YES the words of Allah?
124 Behold! Joseph said to his father "O my father! I did see eleven stars and the sun and the moon I saw them prostrate themselves to me!"
125 Said (the father) "My (dear) little son! relate not thy vision to thy brothers, lest they concoct a plot against thee for Satan is to man an avowed enemy!
Why not tell his brothers?
1299 Then when they entered the presence of Joseph, he provided a home for his parents with himself, and said "Enter ye Egypt (all) in safety if it please Allah."
12100 And he raised his parents high on the throne (of dignity), and they fell down in prostration, (all) before him. He said "O my father! this is the fulfilment of my vision of old! Allah hath made it come true! He was indeed good to me when He took me out of prison and brought you (all here) out of the desert, (even) after Satan had sown enmity between me and my brothers. Verily my Lord understandeth best the mysteries of all that He planneth to do, for verily He is full of knowledge and wisdom.
Qur?an says earlier vision in 124 was fulfilled thus THEY above implies ALL!
Peace siki,
No body is doubting the above understanding for yousaf, but what i am trying to say is, "This points towards another important message from almighty to us humans as well, which is;
Planets are 12.
We can?t go by that since there are numerous asteroids, comets, and perhaps billions of other planets in our universe and remember Pluto was relegated to another rock.
Peace