Got som important Questions about Adultery?
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salam siki. you ask me.
So if this is how Allaha conveys prostitution, then why are you mixing it up with Zina ?
albagha, obnoxious things, are a supercategory. there are many things that are obnoxious, backbiting, slander, drunkenness, and prostitution. they all fall in this supercategory. zina, prostitution, is a subcategory. there is only one thing that is prostitution, only this falls in this subcategory. backbiting, slander, and drunkenness are not zina.
you can say zina is baghees, you cannot say all baghees are zina. there are times allah wishes to talk about a broad supercategory of issues. there are times when allah wishes to talk about a narrow subcategory of issues. therefore, this is not mixing it up, this is understanding the categories.
allah is the truth.
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salam siki. you ask me.
albagha, obnoxious things, are a supercategory. there are many things that are obnoxious, backbiting, slander, drunkenness, and prostitution. they all fall in this supercategory. zina, prostitution, is a subcategory. there is only one thing that is prostitution, only this falls in this subcategory. backbiting, slander, and drunkenness are not zina.
Al Arf salam
I have absolutely no problem in agreeing with your understanding of the above Quote.
salam siki. you ask me.
you can say zina is baghees, you cannot say all baghees are zina. there are times allah wishes to talk about a broad supercategory of issues. there are times when allah wishes to talk about a narrow subcategory of issues. therefore, this is not mixing it up, this is understanding the categories.
allah is the truth.
I understand what you are saying, But i am talking about precision, absolute precision here.
As you seem to know, how arabic works , so, you shall be able to make out if you ponder over the last three sentences of this aya.
siki
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salam siki. you mention the last three verses of this aya. and did not identify the verses of the aya.
english chapter = arabic sura, english verses = arabic aya or ayaat.
how can there be three verses of an aya. this makes no sense, explain yourself. you are saying there are three aya of an aya.
allah is the truth.
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As you seem to know, how arabic works , so, you shall be able to make out if you ponder over the last three sentences of this aya.
siki
Those who cannot afford to get married shall maintain morality until GOD provides for them from His grace. Those among your servants who wish to be freed in order to marry, you shall grant them their wish, once you realize that they are honest. And give them from GOD's money that He has bestowed upon you. You shall not force your girls to commit prostitution, seeking the materials of this world, if they wish to be chaste. If anyone forces them, then GOD, seeing that they are forced, is Forgiver, Merciful.
siki
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salam liquiddharma. when you are deprived of your tools of mockery, pictures, what emerges is your revulsion for what is divinely ordained.
the belief that god could appear in human form is christian blasphemy, transubstantiation. you mouth this concept because you believe it to be possible. i, however, being muslim, utterly reject such nonsense. there is nothing wrong with being an arab.
the revulsion of everything medieval is a christian attitude, indeed medieval christianity was a revolting time in christianity. however, medieval islam was no different to modern islam, there is no such difference in islam. your attempt to foist your christian prejudices on islam is projection and exposes your thoughts.
submission to the will of allah, to you, would read "allah has imposed an exploitative custom on you" i suppose having to pray, giving charity, going on pilgrimage are all divinely ordained exploitative customs.No, only slavery - be it based upon race or sex. And that's why your ideas are so ugly. There's nothing wrong with being arab, but there is something wrong with believing only one language/culture has all the ideas that every have value in all of time. Especially when they lead you to think male promiscuity is divinely ordained. Because, the fact is, that without sexual self-discipline, religion has very little value. So when you try and frame arguments based on the quran to undermine male sexual morality, your screwing up completely. Entirely. Absolutely. I can't help making jokes about it when your ideas are a joke.
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salam liquiddharma. again, your medieval christian reasoning rears its ignorant head.
No, only slavery - be it based upon race or sex
it is christians who have enslaved people based on race and sex. to this day christians cannot let go of their race and gender based slavery notions.
when they lead you to think male promiscuity is divinely ordained
given the number of christian single mothers, christian children without fathers, and christian men who abandon their children, it appears that christians believe promoscuity is divinely ordained.
when you try and frame arguments based on the quran to undermine male sexual morality
more christian jibberish. if you were better educated you would know morality is created by men, and subjective. morality is a pagan law. the quran rejects all pagan laws.
I can't help making jokes about it when your ideas are a joke
you cant help making jokes, because that is your avocation, a clown.
allah is the truth.
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salam siki. i am going to guess as to what you are asking me. the best guess i have is you want to know what this means.
You shall not force your girls to commit prostitution, seeking the materials of this world, if they wish to be chaste. If anyone forces them, then GOD, seeing that they are forced, is Forgiver, Merciful
2433 in part ...
do not browbeat your young to the obnoxious, when they wish to be good, if they were browbeaten and altered with wordly goods, allah is after such dissaproval forgiving merciful.
these last three sentences are clear dissaproval of allah of browbeating the young into the obnoxious with wealth. both the browbeater and the young who were altered are both dissaproved, however allah may forgive what happened before, this is clear warning not to do this after being told not to do so in this verse. i believe forgiving and mercy in this verse is for those who did not know of this verse before, now that they know it, the forgiveness and mercy may not apply to them if they violate the command not to browbeat with promises of wealth.
there are households in which parents force their children into marraiges with promises of wealth and ease, and in some cases the parents benefit with gifts as well. i believe allah prohibits this practice and calls it obnoxious.
allah is the lawgiver.
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'Christians' and 'Muslims' are not homogeneous collective entities capable of enslaving anyone. It is individual people who happen to be Christian or Muslims who commit crimes including slavery. It just so happens that western countries abolished slavery long, long before the arab world, and the belief held by many Muslims that the Quran allows slavery is partly responsible for this, and your belief that men and women are not equal is pretty close to it.
I live in a Christian society, but I haven't personally never met a Christian who thinks promiscuity is divinely ordained. So I think you're going to have to keep that specialness to yourself.
Morality isn't a 'pagan law' - try learning the English Language.
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salam liquiddharma. yes, you should not be allowed to have slaves, we on the other hand may have slaves, we know how to treat another human being.
christian and western societies implemented race and gender based slavery. muslim societies never had this kind of nonsense. christian and western societies brutalized their slaves selling off their children, raping them, torturing them. muslims never behaved in this savage manner with their slaves, on the contrary most slaves were considered respectable members of the family as those the right hand possess.
your myopic world view living in a western christian country which fills your ears with your supposed superiority, is condemned by the fact that you cannot act decently to another human being, as a result of which you had to outlaw slavery. muslim countries dont abuse slaves as a result of which no draconian laws are needed to regulate slavery.
little does your small minded world view inform you that the guardians of the prophets mosque and the haram sharif are descendants of the slave, belal, who was chosen by muhammad to lead the first call to prayer. in our world slaves are honorable decent human beings, unlike your pathetic excuse for the maltreatment you call your enlightenment.
spare me your arrogance. go bang your drum somewhere else. i for one am not impressed.
allah is the way and the light.
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Al Arf, salam
I am sure , you are quite capable of comprehending the following explanation.
"Bagha", in general means wrong and i am in agreement with you on this. But the meanings become "specific" in relation to the subject of a sentense.
You could have been right if this sentense had finished at,---- "And do not compel your Young females to commit wrong.......... it would have opened its application in "general "to all aspects of "wrongs" in life.
But Brother! what follows after this sentense is, ----"If they are desirous of being chaste" this particular phrase , puts precision back into the first sentense, of "wrong" and locks the meanings of Bagha in specific to sexuality.
what all can be committed wrong in sexual terms of a young female? Fornication , may be , but then we have to further modify it , because a certain sentense has been inserted here, AARZUL--HAYATUL--DUNIYA, (SEEKING THE MATERIAL GAINS OF THIS WORLD )
Meaning, " you are forcing her to commit a wrong, which is in sexual context, (fornication) to gain the materials in this world",
what else can we call the above ? other than " Prostitution"
peace
siki
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Al Arf salam.
Now lets move on to the subject,
WHAT all in the great reading has led you to believe that sexual relations between male and female are allowed other than wives and Ma Malakat Emnakum?
I seriously want to analyse your arguments and evaluate weather, is there a room for that, or not ?
siki
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salam liquiddharma. yes, you should not be allowed to have slaves, we on the other hand may have slaves, we know how to treat another human being.
christian and western societies implemented race and gender based slavery. muslim societies never had this kind of nonsense. christian and western societies brutalized their slaves selling off their children, raping them, torturing them. muslims never behaved in this savage manner with their slaves, on the contrary most slaves were considered respectable members of the family as those the right hand possess.
your myopic world view living in a western christian country which fills your ears with your supposed superiority, is condemned by the fact that you cannot act decently to another human being, as a result of which you had to outlaw slavery. muslim countries dont abuse slaves as a result of which no draconian laws are needed to regulate slavery.
little does your small minded world view inform you that the guardians of the prophets mosque and the haram sharif are descendants of the slave, belal, who was chosen by muhammad to lead the first call to prayer. in our world slaves are honorable decent human beings, unlike your pathetic excuse for the maltreatment you call your enlightenment.
spare me your arrogance. go bang your drum somewhere else. i for one am not impressed.
allah is the way and the light.
I do not go about looking for places to bang any drum about slavery and equality, in fact I never thought I would have to, particularly not on this website of free thinking people.
But in a free society, and in a globalised world, we must make our cases strongly, and in detail, and never be too proud to defend the truth. So I'll spell it out for you.
The reason you think that 'islamic' slavery is less bad than 'christian' slavery is because the evils of slavery in the west have been written about far more than the evils of slavery in the Arab world. This is because westerners write far more books and make far more films. They communicate better. Not because 'muslim' slavery is less evil. It is not.
The reason you think women are not equal to men is because you were brought up badly and have a phallic obsession. Allah gave us all brains and the capacity to look after ourselves.
To be forced to give up your free will is like having a part of your body cut off, not being able to use one of your organs. That?s why the Quran says that no prophet is allowed to have any prisoners except what they capture in battle ? captivity is a punishment ? this fits in with the Geneva Conventions which allow forced labour of prisoners of war. So in fact the United Nations says the same things about slavery (forced labour) as the Quran.