Voices of the Minority!
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Recently I was accused of slander due to my harsh and true criticism of Progressive Muslim (PM) Movement by many of it followers. Then I was threatened by a moderator with disciplinary action because according to him, I didn?t present ?evidence? for my statements against PM (although the majority of posting by other members contradicts this ruling). This thread is not about those previous allegations, but about the voice of the minority.
The more I discuss the above issues, the more I realize that such disciplinary action was most likely already taken. It is currently my belief now that I was maybe banned for a week. Although I am not certain since I received no warnings, the only evidence I have is being unable to login to free-minds.org for an entire week. Whenever I did from any computer (home, work, publics library), I was prompted with ?Sorry, you SantanHatesMe have been banned from this site.? Although at first glance I thought it was a computer server error (and created a new account called BannedSHM because of that prior belief), such glitches don?t last an entire week. So it is currently my belief that I was banned.
But the point of that story is that it is possible to be target simply because you are the minority. Now I am not stupid like they will like you to believe. I am fully aware that character assassination is a tactic employee by many within a debate or argument. I am also aware that my criticism of PM providing no conclusive answers, having no consensus, and contributing to the denigration of Islam will never been welcome on free-minds/progressivemuslim.org with a fair response (due to the sites affiliation). But I am just curious, how many members within free-minds.org experience or feel that their views are not being welcome fairly?
How many have been targeted by moderators or other members simply because you are the minority voice within this forum who disagrees with majority of PM views? How many of you were called names, had Quran verses thrown at you in an attempt to demean your character? How many of you felt insult by members who joke about your views? How many of you was ban without warning? I want to hear here the voice of the minority.
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Recently I was accused of slander due to my harsh and true criticism of Progressive Muslim (PM) Movement by many of it followers. Then I was threatened by a moderator with disciplinary action because according to him, I didn?t present ?evidence? for my statements against PM (although the majority of posting by other members contradicts this ruling).
Strawman. You're getting into similar arguments as those who dislike Islam do - repeating something that has been proven wrong several times over. Nobody calls criticism of PM "slander", but saying "PM seeks to demolish Islam", and has "a hidden agenda", THAT is slander.
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Nobody calls criticism of PM "slander", but saying "PM seeks to demolish Islam", and has "a hidden agenda", THAT is slander.
If I had a brain tumor which effect my judgment and believe that statement as true, my ?ban? happened before that statement unless a moderator can confirm that I was banned for other reasons.
OPF, Do you even know what 'criticism' means? Because if you did, you wouldn't have made such an illogical statement above. Such statements are criticism. Plus you are doing exactly what I am talking about. Naming calling.
Plus you are not even the voice of the minority. I am speaking to them. Please read thread's title. Thanks.
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Yes, but you're propagating something you've already been called out on before.
That isn't ONLY criticism, that's ALSO slander.
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Peace SHM,
Since we have no unity here at PM., as you have so eloquently explained to us, one would be compelled to conclude that every voice would be that of a minority. With so many flourishing minorities here at PM, one can hardly say that conditions are as bad as you find them.
Why do so many blossom, if PM is barren?
Nadeem
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That isn't ONLY criticism, that's ALSO slander.
Ok. Ok. You got me. Thanks OPF for your lecture. Although I stated at the top of this thread that I not taking about my allegations, I talking to people you have similar allegations and bias action against them. Yet you continue to speaking for them. Strange. Well thank you anyway OPF. Thanks you for calling me a slander. Thanks for calling me names. I always like to be disrespected by you since I am a ?strawman? and that what strawmen do. And thanks for speaking when not spoken too. I completely understand your point. I am a slander. If it makes you feel better, I think I am a slander too. I spoke slander. How dare I say criticize PM. Although they produce no conclusive answers and have no agreement on anything, how dare I mention such things. Evil indeed is such a statements. How dare I say PM Movement is indirectly demolishing Islam by simply eliminating essence of Islam ?just because? it is a traditional view? What the hell is wrong with me? I must be smoking crack!?
Now that OPF is happy.
Can I hear from the voice of the minority and not OPF?
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With so many flourishing minorities here at PM, one can hardly say that conditions are as bad as you find them.
I think you may have to provide evidence for that statement since I am always demand to provide any evidence for what I say about PM but?.
..that?s why I ask the question. I really want to know is it just the criticism of PM or have other faced similar actions because of other things. When I criticize PM, sudden I need/may been ban?
It seems any utterance of PM as an organization in the negative is simply not welcome here. And if that is true, it is sad because no ?progress? will be made if such views are held within the organization (especially within this site).
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Peace SHM,
There are several proofs. Take a peek at the statistics.
Everyday here at free-minds forums
- About 3 new member register .
- Seven new topics are started.
- 122 new posts are written.
- 47 people online everyday
Other stats
5. The top ten posters are from all walks of life.
5a. One of these incline strongly towards symbolic interpretations, whilst another towards literal ones.
6. The as 5 with "top topic starters", but with different users.
7. 165 threads in the "How you came to god alone" shows that many find FM a place where they can grow.No one is to say that FM does not care for diversity.
Nadeem
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Peace SHM
I believe that this forum is mainly a discussion board. It should not be the main source by which you learn how to practice Islam. Some of the articles are great and some I personally do not agree with. The point is that we are all seeking to understand God's words and with so many points of views we are more likely to reach a truthful/balanced consensus than if we were all to isolate ourselves with our own beliefs. However it is good to read the Quran on your own and perhaps if something is confusing this website may offer guidance. But if you are fairly certain about something than it is up to you whether you are going to post it on Free Minds or not.
If you do post something on Free Minds you must be ready for attempts to debunk your theory because not everyone is on a consensus and you could be (hypothetically) misguided without knowing it. I would spend more time researching whatever idea you would post on Free-Minds so that you have a greater chance of convincing other people.
The Quran has a story about those 3 messengers in a town who were preaching. Only 1 person believed them! so being united or a majority is not important. You are right in saying minorities can be oppressed but that 1 man who believed in the truth got the ultimate reward that can be achieved in this lifetime!
Do not grief SHM, because God has promised that with hardship comes relief. And try not to argue because argument can cause major grief.
Sincerely
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No one is to say that FM does not care for diversity.
You are indeed correct. There is great diversity here. And someone can easy conclude that it flourishes with minorities.
Yet within this great flourishing diversity, the aspect that deliver criticism to PM is subjectively targeting. That is base on my experience, so I am asking if anyone experience the same when criticizing PM.
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When I criticize PM, sudden I need/may been ban?
Once again, no-one would be banned for critiquing (I did this quite cleary about the PM trans. which you seem to conveninetly forget). You were banned for slanderous comments. ) Still preferring a strawman I see.
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Do not grief SHM, because God has promised that with hardship comes relief. And try not to argue because argument can cause major grief.
Honestly Aalmakto, with all sincerity, I am not arguing for argument sake. I actually trying to help PM. Yet many don't understand.
I must be frank with my concerns and criticism of the organization. Beating around the bush doesn't help. Yet I was ban because of that.Wakas just confirmed that I was indeed ban. I appreciate his sincerity. But the ban was done with great misjudgment. To classify my statement about PM as slanderous is misguided. plus I corrected my previous generalization of the phrase "PM seeks to demolish Islam" since it spoke on people intention which I know nothing about. Yet I was still banned?!?
What does that tell you.
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SHM
Your whinning is really becoming annoying. By now you know the rules for posting and I'm sure you're intelligent enough to change your approach to meet the rules. Its been explained we're open to your critiques as long as you
support any and all claims with evidence. So please post something of substance and stop wasting precious bandwith. This is beyond ridiculous, we don't come here for your pitty party.Peace
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Your whinning is really becoming annoying. By now you know the rules for posting and I'm sure you're intelligent enough to change your approach to meet the rules. Its been explained we're open to your critiques as long as you support any and all claims with evidence. So please post something of substance and stop wasting precious bandwith. This is beyond ridiculous, we don't come here for your pitty party.
I dont seek other people sympathy and if that is the majority view, then I will not post in this thread again.
You are right. It is pointless to complain about being treated unfairly unless I do something about it. It can indeed get annoying to a degree. So i will stop. -
I was prompted with ?Sorry, you SantanHatesMe have been banned from this site.? So it is currently my belief that I was banned.
Just wondering, how long did it take you to discover that it wasn't a glitch or server error?
If you want the voice of a "minority" under the definition you speak of I'll say a few words. I feel that I am a Christian-Muslim-Jew only because there is no known title for someone of all or in between. (Abrahamic Monothiest?) I have beliefs that blatanly contradict the Quran (Jesus and Mohammed died) and some that are no where near what would be accepted in any muslim society. I've even promoted ideas of paganism and a femenine deity. (http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=14760.0)
But have I ever been persecuted? No, because there is one unofficial rule here, you must have logical and/or Quranic reasoning/support behind an argument. I am very young according to the average here. (14) But I have never seen a post here where someone won an argument without logic.
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I guess Satanhatesme isn't online anymore?
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Just wondering, how long did it take you to discover that it wasn't a glitch or server error?
If you want the voice of a "minority" under the definition you speak of I'll say a few words. I feel that I am a Christian-Muslim-Jew only because there is no known title for someone of all or in between. (Abrahamic Monothiest?) I have beliefs that blatanly contradict the Quran (Jesus and Mohammed died) and some that are no where near what would be accepted in any muslim society. I've even promoted ideas of paganism and a femenine deity. (http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=14760.0)
But have I ever been persecuted? No, because there is one unofficial rule here, you must have logical and/or Quranic reasoning/support behind an argument. I am very young according to the average here. (14) But I have never seen a post here where someone won an argument without logic.
I think Mohammed and Jesus died too.
But I havent face the same "fairness" as you. Trust me, attack PM for the no concensus, contradictionary nature and demolishing islam (directly or indirectly) and you will see if you get banned. -
I think Mohammed and Jesus died too.
But I havent face the same "fairness" as you. Trust me, attack PM for the no concensus, contradictionary nature and demolishing islam (directly or indirectly) and you will see if you get banned.There have been many saying similar things (hlatif I see as one) yet they do not get banned. Perhaps because they put evidence forward.
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I think Mohammed and Jesus died too.
But I havent face the same "fairness" as you. Trust me, attack PM for the no concensus, contradictionary nature and demolishing islam (directly or indirectly) and you will see if you get banned.Honestly I've read things here and disagreed with them, like how there seems to be no condemnation of suicide bombers in Iraq or Israel and that has bothered me. But I dont really think the people here are demolishing Islam, I bet the only probalem with this group and many other Islamic groups is that they once believed that there was once only one interpretation of the Quran, which I bet with a little research I can disprove.
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Honestly I've read things here and disagreed with them, like how there seems to be no condemnation of suicide bombers in Iraq or Israel and that has bothered me. But I dont really think the people here are demolishing Islam, I bet the only probalem with this group and many other Islamic groups is that they once believed that there was once only one interpretation of the Quran, which I bet with a little research I can disprove.
I don't believe in banning. Anyways these suicide bombers do not subscribe to anyone here point of view and would view all of us here as infidels. So whats the point? They are not going to listen. Anyways the suicide bombers follow Ibn Taymiya and other Sunni clerics who believe in the infallibility of Bukhari's hadiths and others. They also believe those who question them are infidels as the case with Al Azhar recently that labelled Quranist like Dr. Subhi Mansour as a "kaffir". So why bother?
