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Focal Point

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved Questions/Comments on the Quran
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  • L Offline
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    Leoxyz
    wrote on last edited by
    #94

    Can you tell me where Britannica got their source from?

    History is always from authenticated sources.Or is there any other source for history?
    Ok You give the proof of Non existance of Mecca.
    -Any world History
    -Any other Encyclopedia.

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      unknownuser
      wrote on last edited by
      #95

      History is always from authenticated sources.Or is there any other source for history?
      Ok You give the proof of Non existance of Mecca.
      -Any world History
      -Any other Encyclopedia.

      I wish to know a simple fact. Where did Britannica get this information from? Of what source? Please do not dance around the question. There is no such thing as "non-proof".

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        Leoxyz
        wrote on last edited by
        #96

        I wish to know a simple fact. Where did Britannica get this information from? Of what source? Please do not dance around the question. There is no such thing as "non-proof".

        I have given you my source;Encyclopedia Britanica Edition 2005
        From where did they get can be answered by only Encyclopeia Editorial team more accurately.

        I think Mecca is present nowadays.It must be having its history somewhere else also i.e the time it was founded.
        If Encyclopedia Britannica is unreliable (I do not know whether you mean this) Please give the History of Mecca from some other source;
        -History Book
        -Encyclopedia.
        I am in search of authenticated information.

        Following is the Reference Encyclopedia Encarta

        Mecca, also Makkah (ancient Macoraba), city in western Saudi Arabia, located in the Al ijz (Hejaz) region, near Jiddah. Mecca is the birthplace of the Prophet Muhammad (the founder of Islam), the center of pilgrimage for Muslims, and the focal point of their daily prayers. In Arabic, the city is known as Makkah al-mukkaramah (?Mecca the blessed?). Pilgrimage to the city is one of the Five Pillars of Islam and is required of all able adult Muslims at least once in their lifetimes. The pilgrimage (hajj in Arabic) is the defining factor in the growth and life of the city. The influx of close to 2 million pilgrims each year during the last month of the Islamic calendar is a grand human spectacle as well as one of the largest logistical and administrative undertakings in the world.

        Referencehttp//encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761577367/Mecca.html

        Encyclopedia Orient

        'Mecca was a central point on the caravan routes running over the Arabian peninsula at the time of Muhammad. Mecca was revered as a holy city even before the first revelations came to Muhammad."

        Reference http//lexicorient.com/e.o/mecca.htm

        Wikipedia

        "Importance of Makkah

        Picture of the Kaaba taken in 1880Academic historians, however, state with certainty only that Makkah was a shrine and trading center for a number of generations before Prophet Muhammad . The extent of Makkan trade has been hotly debated. Some historians believe that Makkah was a waypoint on a land route from southern Arabia north to the Roman and Byzantine empires, and that Arabian and Indian Ocean spices were funneled through Makkah. Patricia Crone, in her book Meccan Trade and the Rise of Islam, argues that the Meccans were small merchants dealing in hides, camel butter, and the like."

        Reference http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mecca

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          unknownuser
          wrote on last edited by
          #97

          http//www.sacredsites.com/middle_east/saudi_arabia/mecca.html

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            SwedenMajidah
            wrote on last edited by
            #98

            Peace,

            If Makka existed during the time of Abraham, why it's not mentioning in the Bible. The Bible are known for it's many and colorful stories often in details.

            Majidah

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              unknownuser
              wrote on last edited by
              #99

              I have given you my source;Encyclopedia Britanica Edition 2005
              From where did they get can be answered by only Encyclopeia Editorial team more accurately.

              Please, when it comes to historical information about the deen, I do not want www.blablablah, I want a simple primary or secondary source, with physical (written or otherwise) evidence, not oral hearsay. Encyclopedia Britannica is no authority on the subject, neither is Wikipedia or www.blablapedia, until we get a primary or secondary source.

              Surely there must be a mound of physical evidence from "Islamic sources", dated to pre-600AD? Very strange that Allah would leave out this slight detail in his deen.

              My eyes are decieving me, because I cannot see the very important trading hotspot, Makkah, on this map http//nabataea.net/trader.html

              Here again, zero mention of a very important hotspot http//www.metmuseum.org/TOAH/hd/silk/hd_silk.htm

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              • L Offline
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                Leoxyz
                wrote on last edited by
                #100

                Please, when it comes to historical information about the deen, I do not want www.blablablah, I want a simple primary or secondary source, with physical (written or otherwise) evidence, not oral hearsay. Encyclopedia Britannica is no authority on the subject, neither is Wikipedia or www.blablapedia, until we get a primary or secondary source.

                Surely there must be a mound of physical evidence from "Islamic sources", dated to pre-600AD? Very strange that Allah would leave out this slight detail in his deen.

                My eyes are decieving me, because I cannot see the very important trading hotspot, Makkah, on this map http//nabataea.net/trader.html

                Here again, zero mention of a very important hotspot http//www.metmuseum.org/TOAH/hd/silk/hd_silk.htm

                I was expecting such annoyance which is very common when one becomes speechless because of no argument.

                Is Mecca present nowadays or not ??

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                  unknownuser
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #101

                  I was expecting such annoyance which is very common when one becomes speechless because of no argument.

                  Is Mecca present nowadays or not ??

                  It's a shame you have nothing but www.blablabla.com that do not state their own sources to back up your arguments whereas well-known trade routes have no mention of the holy city.

                  Is Mecca present nowadays or not ??

                  rotfl

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                    Leoxyz
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #102

                    It's a shame you have nothing but www.blablabla.com that do not state their own sources to back up your arguments whereas well-known trade routes have no mention of the holy city.

                    rotfl

                    What a speechlessness

                    1781
                    (1781) And declare, "The Truth has come and falsehood has vanished for falsehood is a thing that must by its nature vanish

                    Honestly speaking,after observing your mental capability I have created more faith in the Holy Book which says

                    7179
                    (7179) And certainly We have created for Hell many of the jinn and mankind; *140 they have hearts with which they fail to understand; and they have eyes with which they fail to see; and they have cars with which they fail to hear. They are like cattle - indeed, even more astray. Such are utterly heedless

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                      unknownuser
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #103

                      If Makka existed during the time of Abraham, why it's not mentioning in the Bible. The Bible are known for it's many and colorful stories often in details.
                      SwedenMajidah, have you studied the entire Bible or Psalms? Have you done a thorough research on Mecca? Keep in mind that many names of places, persons, events, businesses, etc., have changed and do change from time to time, while the source remaining intact/existant.

                      Peace!

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                        unknownuser
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #104

                        What a speechlessness

                        1781
                        (1781) And declare, "The Truth has come and falsehood has vanished for falsehood is a thing that must by its nature vanish

                        Honestly speaking,after observing your mental capability I have created more faith in the Holy Book which says

                        7179
                        (7179) And certainly We have created for Hell many of the jinn and mankind; *140 they have hearts with which they fail to understand; and they have eyes with which they fail to see; and they have cars with which they fail to hear. They are like cattle - indeed, even more astray. Such are utterly heedless

                        Please point out Makkah on those trade routes instead of resorting to idle talk and baseless accusation.

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                          Leoxyz
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #105

                          Please point out Makkah on those trade routes instead of resorting to idle talk and baseless accusation.

                          Please read my references carefully if they prove existance of Mecca at the time of Prophet or not.
                          BTW My Prophet PBUH was born in Mecca.Where was your prophet born ??

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                          • A Offline
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                            ayman
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #106

                            Peace Genteel,

                            http//www.sacredsites.com/middle_east/saudi_arabia/mecca.html

                            From the reference that you cited

                            Adam was formed by god out of a handful of dust taken, according to tradition, from the Holy Rock of Sakhrah in Beyt el Maddas. When god formed Adam He left the figure lying lifeless for forty days, some say forty years, while notice was given to the Angels and the Jinn to be ready to worship him as soon as god put breath into his nostrils. At first Adam was male and female in one body, man on one side and female on the other. In due time the female part separated from the male and became a complete woman. Adam and the woman mated but they were not happy as the female refused to submit to Adam, saying that as they were made from the same dust, he had no right to order her about. So she was turned out of Paradise and, consorting with Iblis (Satan), became the mother of devils. She is called El-Karineh by the Arabs, both Christian and Muslim, and Lilith by the Jews (La Brusha by the Sephardim Jews). She is the deadly enemy of all women, especially those who have recently become mothers. When El-Karineh was driven out of Paradise, god created Eve out of one of Adam's ribs, which had been extracted while he slept. Adam and Eve were happy together until Satan succeeded in getting back into Paradise concealed in a serpent's fangs. Once there, Satan persuaded Eve to eat of the forbidden fruit. Adam, having been persuaded by his wife to share her offense, was, as a punishment, cast out of Paradise together with Eve, Satan and the Serpent. All four of them fell to the earth, each coming to a different place Adam at Serendib or Ceylon; Eve at Jiddah; Satan at Akabah; and the Serpent at Isfahan in Persia. Two hundred years passed before Adam and Eve met once more at Jebel Arafat, the mountain of Recognition, near Mecca. During these two hundred years, Eve had borne offspring of the seeds of devils and Adam had many children by female Jinns.

                            These idiotic stories are the sort of references that you want us to believe in Mecca based on!!!

                            Peace,

                            Ayman

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                              ayman
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #107

                              Peace Leoxyz,

                              Please read my references carefully if they prove existance of Mecca at the time of Prophet or not.

                              They don't. None of the references that you provided date to the time of the prophet. They all ultimately get their stories from late Abbassid-era storytellers. This is a fact.

                              BTW My Prophet PBUH was born in Mecca.Where was your prophet born ??

                              So if Mecca cannot be proven to exist prior to the 8th century CE, will you stop believing in the prophet? Who is more important to you, the prophet or Mecca?

                              Peace,

                              Ayman

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                              • U Offline
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                                unknownuser
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #108

                                Please read my references carefully if they prove existance of Mecca at the time of Prophet or not.
                                BTW My Prophet PBUH was born in Mecca.Where was your prophet born ??

                                They show zero primary sources and zero physical evidence. So they are about as authentic as me claiming Muhammad was born in Atlantis.

                                As for the prophet, I genuinely do not care. The prophet is not important, the message is.

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                                • L Offline
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                                  Leoxyz
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #109

                                  They show zero primary sources and zero physical evidence. So they are about as authentic as me claiming Muhammad was born in Atlantis.

                                  As for the prophet, I genuinely do not care. The prophet is not important, the message is.

                                  I know it .I smelled your anti-islamic intentions long time ago.Now the Cat is Out of Bag.

                                  Listen the Quranic Decree;
                                  298
                                  (29 (If their enmity to Gabriel is due to this, let them understand that) whoever is enemy to Allah, His Angels, His Messengers, Gabriel and Michael, Allah is enemy to such disbelievers."

                                  4136
                                  (4136) Believers! Believe *166 in Allah and His Messenger and in the Book He has revealed to His Messenger, and in the Book He revealed before. And whoever disbelieves *167 in Allah, in His angels, in His Books, in His Messengers and in the Last Day, has indeed strayed far away.

                                  But remember inspite of all these efforts

                                  933
                                  (933) He is Allah Who has sent His Messenger with Guidance and the Right way so that He may make it prevail over all other ways, *32 even though the mushriks be much averse to it.
                                  Ishallah

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                                  • U Offline
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                                    unknownuser
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #110

                                    From the reference that you cited

                                    Adam was formed by god out of a handful of dust taken, according to tradition, from the Holy Rock of Sakhrah in Beyt el Maddas. When god formed Adam He left the figure lying lifeless for forty days, some say forty years, while notice was given to the Angels and the Jinn to be ready to worship him as soon as god put breath into his nostrils. At first Adam was male and female in one body, man on one side and female on the other. In due time the female part separated from the male and became a complete woman. Adam and the woman mated but they were not happy as the female refused to submit to Adam, saying that as they were made from the same dust, he had no right to order her about. So she was turned out of Paradise and, consorting with Iblis (Satan), became the mother of devils. She is called El-Karineh by the Arabs, both Christian and Muslim, and Lilith by the Jews (La Brusha by the Sephardim Jews). She is the deadly enemy of all women, especially those who have recently become mothers. When El-Karineh was driven out of Paradise, god created Eve out of one of Adam's ribs, which had been extracted while he slept. Adam and Eve were happy together until Satan succeeded in getting back into Paradise concealed in a serpent's fangs. Once there, Satan persuaded Eve to eat of the forbidden fruit. Adam, having been persuaded by his wife to share her offense, was, as a punishment, cast out of Paradise together with Eve, Satan and the Serpent. All four of them fell to the earth, each coming to a different place Adam at Serendib or Ceylon; Eve at Jiddah; Satan at Akabah; and the Serpent at Isfahan in Persia. Two hundred years passed before Adam and Eve met once more at Jebel Arafat, the mountain of Recognition, near Mecca. During these two hundred years, Eve had borne offspring of the seeds of devils and Adam had many children by female Jinns.

                                    These idiotic stories are the sort of references that you want us to believe in Mecca based on!!!
                                    Hello Ayman,

                                    You picked a portion near the end of that article from that entire site whose sub-heading reads "Folklore notes on Adam". Many similar and other fanciful stories are embedded in "holy books" as well, perhaps not as detailed. Certainly these are idiotic stories descended from ancient times.

                                    Peace!

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                                    • L Offline
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                                      Leoxyz
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #111

                                      Peace Leoxyz,

                                      They don't. None of the references that you provided date to the time of the prophet. They all ultimately get their stories from late Abbassid-era storytellers. This is a fact.

                                      So if Mecca cannot be proven to exist prior to the 8th century CE, will you stop believing in the prophet? Who is more important to you, the prophet or Mecca?

                                      Peace,

                                      Ayman

                                      Ok tell me when this present Mecca was founded ??

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                                      • W Offline
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                                        warner
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #112

                                        Salaam

                                        If the whole world can be fooled by a non existent city of Jerusalem and the City of David is it a big deal to fool some Arabs with a non existent Mecca?

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                                        • U Offline
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                                          unknownuser
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #113

                                          I know it .I smelled your anti-islamic intentions long time ago.Now the Cat is Out of Bag.

                                          Listen the Quranic Decree;
                                          298
                                          (29 (If their enmity to Gabriel is due to this, let them understand that) whoever is enemy to Allah, His Angels, His Messengers, Gabriel and Michael, Allah is enemy to such disbelievers."

                                          4136
                                          (4136) Believers! Believe *166 in Allah and His Messenger and in the Book He has revealed to His Messenger, and in the Book He revealed before. And whoever disbelieves *167 in Allah, in His angels, in His Books, in His Messengers and in the Last Day, has indeed strayed far away.

                                          But remember inspite of all these efforts

                                          933
                                          (933) He is Allah Who has sent His Messenger with Guidance and the Right way so that He may make it prevail over all other ways, *32 even though the mushriks be much averse to it.
                                          Ishallah

                                          You are correct, I am Dajjal, I have one eye, and I have a pink complexion, and I am here to steal your women )

                                          Please answer the very simple question instead of resorting to idle talk. Also, please stop trash-talking using the Quran, it does not look good.

                                          933
                                          (933) He is Allah Who has sent His Messenger with Guidance and the Right way so that He may make it prevail over all other ways, *32 even though the mushriks be much averse to it.

                                          Who is closer to shirk, the one upholding God alone or the one upholding God alone + spinning round the Arab cube + invoking Amun-Ra 5 times a day?

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