Hi an ex-Muslim
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Peace cosmicdancer,
Are you now comfortable with your beliefs, and in being an "ex-Muslim"?
If so, why are you on this forum? (not meant to be attacking, it is a serious question.)
peace
I am going through a difficult time and feel quite isolated and unsure of where to go next.
I am here because someone invited me to read this forum.
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Peace and welcome, cosmicdancer,
Thank you for sharing your story and fielding questions. If you don't mind one more...
By leaving the religion called "islam", you've essentially left the structure and security of a large group and pretty much isolated yourself. I imagine this has given you tremendous insight into previous pitfalls and thus a keen recognition of future ones. That being said, have you felt an alignment with any existing beliefs/systems/religions, or are you just sort of floating around?Peace,
Tay -
One is less likey to question things when one is comfortable and happy within the security of of one's comfort zone. Once those things were taken away I began to question everything much more than I previously did. When September the 11th happened, I found myself questioning Islam more and more. I began to exammine my own beliefs much harder than I had ever done before. I saw things differently for the first time.
I tend to look back to that year as a turning point as it was then that I started having serious doubts.
Before that I was happy to coast along within the security of my family, job and community without questioning my beliefs.
For some these (type of) incidences would make them angry, or cause them to pull away from their 'faith', while for others it would further strengthen their resolve. I'm guessing for you it was the culmination of those events, perhaps all happening at about the same time... maybe that's what 'tipped you over'? I have spoken to a number of people who tend to look back at 9/11 as their 'turning points'. Turning, in the sense, looking deeper into their religion. Studying more, changing their belief system, etc.
Anyways, I'll step aside here now, but I'd like to invite you to look into threads with 9/11 here.
Peace be with you. )
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I no longer see the Qur'an as the word of God - but the word of man.
Cosmicdancer,
Would you please share
- Why you initially believed that Quran in the word of God.
- Why eventually you changed your position to "Quran is authored by man".
I am not a muslim; but a monotheist. I believe in a God. I dont have any position on Quran however I am analyzing this book so that I could reach a conclusion.
I am interested in listening to your views.
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Hi Tay
floating around?
Floating around is the right word. Questions about where does one get standards of morality, what is right and wrong have been troubling me.
But I have come to the conclusion that human conscience knows these things instinctively - without the need for religion.
Sure we may differ about what is right and wrong.
But so do those who follow religion - even those who follow the 'same' religion differ - sometimes quite wildly.
I'm not sure there are any absolute standards of right and wrong - but if they are I am certainly no worse of struggling to find these without religion.
As for other religions - I am not interested in them at all. The word 'frying pan' and 'fire' come to mind
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Hi Tay
Floating around is the right word. Questions about where does one get standards of morality, what is right and wrong have been troubling me.
But I have come to the conclusion that human conscience knows these things instinctively - without the need for religion.
Sure we may differ about what is right and wrong.
But so do those who follow religion - even those who follow the 'same' religion differ - sometimes quite wildly.
I'm not sure there are any absolute standards of right and wrong - but if they are I am certainly no worse of struggling to find these without religion.
As for other religions - I am not interested in them at all. The word 'frying pan' and 'fire' come to mind
Sorry to intrude, but I completely agree that we know these things instinctively. However, I don't see how that goes against something being from God. In fact, it seems like evidence for that.
Peace
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Cosmicdancer,
Would you please share
- Why you initially believed that Quran in the word of God.
- Why eventually you changed your position to "Quran is authored by man".
I am not a muslim; but a monotheist. I believe in a God. I dont have any position on Quran however I am analyzing this book so that I could reach a conclusion.
I am interested in listening to your views.
If I may I will answer that question when I get back tonight, as it requires more thought.
Bye for now.
)
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Peace cosmicdancer and all
May I ask all of you a question
If a person is committed to implementing and upholdding following values.
Treating people with justice and equality
Respectting people and there property
Being tolerant and compassionate towards others
Taking responsibility for ones own actions
Working in ethical employment/self employment
Upholding ones commitments
Dealing with others in a peaceful manner
Continuously working to self improve and also if possible helping others to develop
Being generous and charitable towards others
Committed to the principle of Earth care ,People Care , and fare share for all
Being prepared to deffend the above even if it means that you may lose your life
Would you consider them Peaceful (MUSLIM) .
Peace Salim
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Peace Samia
If I may ask you a Question what would change the world dramatically if every body believed in God or every one becomes Peaceful .
Peace Salim
Salaam salgan
That depends on what you mean by (believe in God). I take the prevailing state of humans
If everybody believes in God nothing would change, because many people aready believe in God but do not abide with His laws outcome they are equal to those who neither believe in God nor abide with His laws, and worse than those who do not believe in God but abide with His laws.
If everyone becomes peaceful according to your definitionon the previous post (to which I may answer Yes), I think the world will be very boring. Just like if veryone is young, pretty and rich.
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Peace samia
(If everyone becomes peaceful according to your definitionon the previous post (to which I may answer Yes), I think the world will be very boring. Just like if veryone is young, pretty and rich.)
Why would a peaceful world be a boring world ?
Peace Salim
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Peace cosmicdancer and all
May I ask all of you a question
If a person is committed to implementing and upholdding following values.
Treating people with justice and equality
Respectting people and there property
Being tolerant and compassionate towards others
Taking responsibility for ones own actions
Working in ethical employment/self employment
Upholding ones commitments
Dealing with others in a peaceful manner
Continuously working to self improve and also if possible helping others to develop
Being generous and charitable towards others
Committed to the principle of Earth care ,People Care , and fare share for all
Being prepared to deffend the above even if it means that you may lose your life
Would you consider them Peaceful (MUSLIM) .
ABSOLUTELY.Although I do believe in an ultimate Supreme Force (a controlling factor), my views are that peace has nothing to do with a "God" in person. Belief in "God" is a concept, an object of thought, a superimposition to living a life essentially out of fear emanating from ancient polytheistic times from idolworship and continuing, nothing else. Peace is a universal rule and every government/societies have general earthly laws and conditions constituted, dictated by circumstance and nature. It is a different matter when people don't uphold righteousness and they get punished Here and Now, either by suffereings or death. What happens after death, if there's such a thing called 'soul', is unknown. Our bodies get dissipated/depleted, recycled and nourished (read Death to Dust). Scientists are busy experimenting upon creating a life form out of matter.
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Peace Genteel and Samia
I my self also believe in a Supreme Force by choice but that does not mean that The supreme force will put me in to hell or heaven as I believe hell and heaven are basically the following concepts heaven = being at peace.Hell being in turmoil depressive nature and we our self are capable of putting our self's in any of any of these concepts by the way we live our daily lives we our selves will be the judge and jury.
samia
If things are recognised from there opposites what is the opposite of God and if there is a opposite does that mean there are 2 Gods.
Peace Salim
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Peace Genteel and Samia
I my self also believe in a Supreme Force by choice but that does not mean that The supreme force will put me in to hell or heaven as I believe hell and heaven are basically the following concepts heaven = being at peace.Hell being in turmoil depressive nature and we our self are capable of putting our self's in any of any of these concepts by the way we live our daily lives we our selves will be the judge and jury.
samia
If things are recognised from there opposites what is the opposite of God and if there is a opposite does that mean there are 2 Gods.
Peace Salim
The opposite of God is no God.
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Sorry to intrude, but I completely agree that we know these things instinctively. However, I don't see how that goes against something being from God. In fact, it seems like evidence for that.
Peace
Possibly.
I do not deny there is a God.
My position is an Agnsotic one. I believe such things are unknowable for certain in this world.
It is organised religion I reject.
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...Would you consider them Peaceful (MUSLIM)
I would consider them peaceful.
I'm not sure what you mean by Muslim though?
If you mean do they follow Islam and the teachings of the Qur'an - obviously it depends if they do or not.
If you mean the Arabic word 'Muslim' is a synonym of 'peaceful' - then no - it is not a direct synonym of the word 'peaceful'
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Cosmicdancer,
Would you please share
- Why you initially believed that Quran in the word of God.
- Why eventually you changed your position to "Quran is authored by man".
I am not a muslim; but a monotheist. I believe in a God. I dont have any position on Quran however I am analyzing this book so that I could reach a conclusion.
I am interested in listening to your views.
I was born a Muslim and the Qur'an was always assumed to be the word of God - it was a natural thought since I was very young. I started actively practising when I was 20 after reading the Qur'an while on holiday in my father's country. It was an emotional and very spiritual time for me. I was searching for meaning to life and the words of the Qur'an seemed tp speak to me and moved me. I had no doubt it was the word of God speaking to my soul.
For the next 20 years or so I never doubted for one minute the Qur'an was the word of God.
Then September 11th and other events shook me to the core. I began to ask questions like "How could people be so convinced and so certain they are following the truth - yet be so dreadfully wrong and blind?" I wondered if I could be like that. Not in the sense of holding extreme views - which I never did - but in the sense of being totally convinced of something - yet in fact completely wrong?
The more I thought about this the more I started to ask "Why I believe in what I do". I started looking at the Qur'an with a much more detached and dispassionate logic. I found things that had troubled me in the past now stood out painfully. Verses such as being able to hit one's wife or verses about torturing unbelievers over and over in Hell by burning their skins of then replacing them so they can keep suffering. It seemed sadistic and without logic.
My perception gradually changed. Until I no longer saw these words as the words of God. But the words of a man from a harsh 7th century desert environment - where such behaviour and imagery was the order of the day.