A Quranist and Quran translation tampering QXP

unknownuser

^

If you are correct, then I would advise that people be mindful of 378 also.

Leoxyz

^

If you are correct, then I would advise that people be mindful of 378 also.

Thanks a lot that you agreed to my point of viewThe aya referred by you
378
(37 And there is a party among them who twist their tongues while reciting the Book to make you think that it is part of the Book when in fact it is not. They say 'It is from Allah', when in fact it is not from Allah. They falsely fix a lie upon Allah, and do so wittingly.

This is what I am saying "Tahreef" in Holy books is a crime

Tay

Peace,

It might be relevant if the text claimed itself to be a translation. Fortunately for the authors, it does not. Please refrain from baseless accusations, particularly in thread titles.

Peace,
Tay

Leoxyz

Peace,

It might be relevant if the text claimed itself to be a translation. Fortunately for the authors, it does not. Please refrain from baseless accusations, particularly in thread titles.

Peace,
Tay

Dear Brother
How can you call it as "accusation".I provided the proof.
Accusation is when it is false.
What I have pointed out if this is wrong,I will apologize to the author and all of you.
But first prove that author's translation is correct.

Wakas

But first prove that author's translation is correct.

That is the point - it is not a translation. More correctly, you should say "prove that author's interpretation/explanation is correct". For this, you'd have to ask the author, who as far as I'm aware is not a member of the forum, so asking here is pointless. His email is on the ourbeacon.com site.

Leoxyz

That is the point - it is not a translation. More correctly, you should say "prove that author's interpretation/explanation is correct". For this, you'd have to ask the author, who as far as I'm aware is not a member of the forum, so asking here is pointless. His email is on the ourbeacon.com site.

Dear Waqas
I do not want to know why he has done.This is expected.I just to let the readers know what is there.
Don't you bash the traditionlist interpretation ?
If not aware read whole of Literature by G.A Perwez.
The Holy Quran says
613
Is this not so??

arnoldyasin

Salaam Aleikum,

AKUM vs IKUM - Wudhu

Posted By Dr. Shabbir - Florida
Date Tuesday, 28 November 2006, at 408 a.m.

Email

56 O You who have chosen to be graced with belief! When you congregate for Salat, wash your faces and your forearms, hands to the elbows. Lightly rub your heads and your feet to the ankles. ---.

"56. Ya ayyuha allatheena amanoo itha qumtum ila alssalati faighsiloo wujoohakum waaydiyakum ila almarafiqi waimsahoo biruoosikum waarjulakum ila alkaAAbayni

****faighsiloo wujoohakum = wash your faces,(notice the end of the word ..akum)

****waimsahoo biruoosikum = wipe your head,(notice the end of the word ..ikum)

****waarjulakum = and your feet ,(notice the end of the word ..akum)

Because the word waarjulakum is written with .....lakum, it follows the washing of the face.....lakum, grammatically.

For the feet to follow the wiping of the head it should have been writttten as waarjulikum , that is .....likum and NOT ....lakum as it is in the verse."

I have discussed this with several arabic speaking persons, and most confirm the verse says 'rub your head and feet'. But still i would like to understand the above better.

A questioner

Answer

IKUM and AKUM are not grammatically important here.

KUM is sufficient (YOUR in plural). The flow of the verse here means 'wipe your feet'. Shias are right here but for the wrong reason.

The Sunnis write AKUM.

The Shias write IKUM from the so-called non-existent QIR'AT IBN 'ABBAS (Abdullah bin Abbas bin Abdul Muttalib.)

Hazrat Abdullah bin Abbas was the son of the exalted prophet's paternal uncle, Hazrat Abbas). How could the prophet's cousin have a different copy of the Qur'an.

Interestingly, through the same non-existent QIR'AT IBN 'ABBAS, the Shias bring support for MUT'AH (temporary marriage.) They maintain that that QIR'AT said, "Marry women ILA AJALIM-MUSAMMA" (Marry women for an appointed or pre-determined time).

Allah says in 2231 - DO NOT MAKE ALLAH'S VERSES A LAUGHING STOCK.

You know QIR'AT means a way of reciting and not writing.

I hope, I am clear.

-SA

Tay

Peace Leoxyz,

How can you call it as "accusation".I provided the proof.

The accusation that the translation is "tampering" the quran is baseless because the text you are quoting from is not a translation. The text, called QXP, is self-described as "more of an understanding from within the Qur?an itself" as Arnold quoted for you in the preface. Thus, any and all criticism regarding it's worthiness as a translation is completely irrelevant.

The authors clearly went to great lengths to explain their goals and probably to avoid this very type of misunderstanding. I would suggest reading the preface again to better grasp this.

Peace,
Tay

unknownuser

Would it be better called exegesis/tafseer?

By the way, there is a hadeeth about people nitpicking every single fault baselessly while ignoring themselves. I'll find it, God willing.

Leoxyz

Peace Leoxyz,

The accusation that the translation is "tampering" the quran is baseless because the text you are quoting from is not a translation. The text, called QXP, is self-described as "more of an understanding from within the Qur?an itself" as Arnold quoted for you in the preface. Thus, any and all criticism regarding it's worthiness as a translation is completely irrelevant.

The authors clearly went to great lengths to explain their goals and probably to avoid this very type of misunderstanding. I would suggest reading the preface again to better grasp this.

Peace,
Tay

Which interpretation/tafseer of this aya signifies "rub the feet".??

Tay

Peace Leoxyz,

It appears Arnold has posted an email from one of the authors that addresses this very question.

Leoxyz

Peace Leoxyz,

It appears Arnold has posted an email from one of the authors that addresses this very question.

Dear
Thanks for this info.
I am anxiously waiting for it.Because if my conception is wrong ,I will be extremely happy on its rectification.

unknownuser

I hope you have booked your appointment. May I suggest that going through the NHS can get you a slight discount on the price of the frame.

Answer

IKUM and AKUM are not grammatically important here.

KUM is sufficient (YOUR in plural). The flow of the verse here means 'wipe your feet'. Shias are right here but for the wrong reason.

The Sunnis write AKUM.

The Shias write IKUM from the so-called non-existent QIR'AT IBN 'ABBAS (Abdullah bin Abbas bin Abdul Muttalib.)

Hazrat Abdullah bin Abbas was the son of the exalted prophet's paternal uncle, Hazrat Abbas). How could the prophet's cousin have a different copy of the Qur'an.

Interestingly, through the same non-existent QIR'AT IBN 'ABBAS, the Shias bring support for MUT'AH (temporary marriage.) They maintain that that QIR'AT said, "Marry women ILA AJALIM-MUSAMMA" (Marry women for an appointed or pre-determined time).

Allah says in 2231 - DO NOT MAKE ALLAH'S VERSES A LAUGHING STOCK.

You know QIR'AT means a way of reciting and not writing.

I hope, I am clear.

-SA

I also wonder what happened to Little Old Lady, did "her" proxy break down?

Leoxyz

I hope you have booked your appointment. May I suggest that going through the NHS can get you a slight discount on the price of the frame.

I also wonder what happened to Little Old Lady, did "her" proxy break down?

Dear '
Do not take the shelter of Weak and Fabricated "Hadiths" (what a pity taking shelter of Fabricated Hadiths and www.blablabla.)
My authority is Quran

Translate it and prove it .
The second source of this Quranic aya;
http//www.islamicity.com/MOSQUE/ARABICSCRIPT/AYAT/5/5_6.htm

In other words you are trying to tell me that Maazullah this Aya is not correct .
2156

Samia

In other words you are trying to tell me that Maazullah this Aya is not correct .
2156

Salaam Leoxyz

It's not about a verse being correct or incorrect. No one is saying it's incorrect. It's about vocalization of the word "arjulakum or arjulikum". If one adopts the fisrt one, and on mere grammatical grounds, it will follow wash your faces wujuuhakum", so it will mean wash your feet.

On the other hand, if one adopts wa arjulikum", it will follow rub your heads ru'uusikum" and it will mean rub your feet.

or

And for your information, no one here messes with qur'aan, quite the opposite. If some people divide their efforts between the quraan and some twenty-hundreds other books, we concentrate ALL our efforts on the quraan. Keep an open mind and try to read more than talk.

Leoxyz

Salaam Leoxyz

It's not about a verse being correct or incorrect. No one is saying it's incorrect. It's about vocalization of the word "arjulakum or arjulikum". If one adopts the fisrt one, and on mere grammatical grounds, it will follow wash your faces wujuuhakum", so it will mean wash your feet.

On the other hand, if one adopts wa arjulikum", it will follow rub your heads ru'uusikum" and it will mean rub your feet.

or

And for your information, no one here messes with qur'aan, quite the opposite. If some people divide their efforts between the quraan and some twenty-hundreds other books, we concentrate ALL our efforts on the quraan. Keep an open mind and try to read more than talk.

Dear Samia
Thanks for reply
Arabic is read and translated according to voweling (ihraab).
according to illiterate people like me.Please correct if I am wrong.
you have quoted two ayaas with two different vowelling.Only one is correct.Naturally both cannot be correct at the same time.

Please give the correct Aya.Which one is correct??
So according to you (the criteria of reading) if someone reads/writes the word ( ) as "aalimulghab or aalamulghab" per your arabic and Quranists's lingual somersault ,it does not make any difference.It is ok to pronounce and write both ways.

Leoxyz