Hell
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Look at the wording difference. Jannat can only be described as eternal, but a different word is used for hell, which indicates longevity, as far as I see.
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11106 As for those who are distraught, they will be in the Fire; in it for them is a sighing and a wailing.
11107 They will abide in it as long as the heavens and Earth exist, except for what your Lord wishes. Your Lord does as He pleases.
11108 As for those who are fortunate, they will be in Paradise; in it they will abide as long as the heavens and Earth exist, except for what your Lord wishes, a giving without end. -
You... have no problem with HUMANS prosecuting and punishing people for there ENTIRE life in jail. Yet you have a problem with GOD doing the same? This is illogical.
I have no problem with God doing the same thing.
But he doesn't.
God tortures people.
What's more he tortures people who don't believe in him.
If any human tortured people for disbelief in God I would be against it.
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I have no problem with God doing the same thing.
But he doesn't.
God tortures people.
What's more he tortures people who don't believe in him.
If any human tortured people for disbelief in God I would be against it.
You have the right to like/dislike this torture (it is human nature, in any case), but can you please explain how it impacts your life now? In other words, how does God saying he will "torture" people who deserve it in the afterlife affect your actions in this life?
408, 5331, and others can set it into perspective. The torture is purely what they have earned. Don't attribute to God something you yourself would not do in the capacity of being merciful.
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Peace Lobster,
But in 18 years at this job, I have never seen any evidence of life after death.
You can live 180 years and you won't 'see' evidence of life after death. For that you have to die.I guess it would be fair if people could know about it without any doubt.
Those who believe have no doubt.I agree we get a lot of chances in this life. An infinite amount. As many as we like. That's mercy.
If we are in a "bad" state, we feel bad, and the only way to get out of it is to change ourselves. So unbelievers are always in hell, because if they aren't in hell, they aren't unbelievers.
That's why I believe god is merciful, because if we decide to change ourselves, god changes our condition.
I have no problem with that reasoning.and there is fear in the Quran. Every few verses there is a description of what will happen to people in hell, and it's equally scary every time. I don't have a problem with it telling us how it is, but it is the constant repitition that gets to me. Why is the quran pounding this fear of hell into us?
That means it's done it's job, i.e. being a reminder. Hell is not a pretty place to be, there's no use sitting and being afraid of it.I spoke to a lady one the phone today... she said her name was Heaven.
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I reckon you've got proof for this claim
Have you read the a book called the Qur'an?
Here's just a couple of verses
As for those who reject Our Signs, We will roast them in a Fire. Every time their skins are burned off, We will replace them with new skins so that they can taste the punishment. Allah is Almighty, All-Wise.
As for those who disbelieve, garments of fire will be cut out for them; boiling fluid will be poured over their heads, melting that which is in their bellies and their skins too, and for them are hooked rods of iron. Whenever, in their anguish, they try to escape they are driven back therein and (it will be said) Taste the doom of burning
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You have the right to like/dislike this torture (it is human nature, in any case), but can you please explain how it impacts your life now?
It affects my decision whether or not to believe that the Qur'an is the word of God.
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It affects my decision whether or not to believe that the Qur'an is the word of God.
Is it simply the supposed contradiction between "merciful" and "eternal hell" or anything else?
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Is it simply the supposed contradiction between "merciful" and "eternal hell" or anything else?
Other things too.
But they are not the subject of this thread.
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So if the quran said everyone was going to heaven and the world is a very happy place, would you be more inclined to believe it is from God?
Just asking. Personally, I think we should primarily look at objective, empirical evidence as opposed to personal desires and what doesn't sound appealing to us.
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So if the quran said everyone was going to heaven and the world is a very happy place, would you be more inclined to believe it is from God?
Just asking. Personally, I think we should primarily look at objective, empirical evidence as opposed to personal desires and what doesn't sound appealing to us.
If it said that I suspect I wouldn't have had so much problem believing - but don't know for sure.
What are the objective reasons for believing that the Qur'an is the word of God?
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If it said that I suspect I wouldn't have had so much problem believing - but don't know for sure.
What are the objective reasons for believing that the Qur'an is the word of God?
Oh alright
There are plenty. Here are a few http//www.quran.org/code/allmmlh.htm
If you click on "Quran and Science" and look at the pull down menu on the top right, there are a lot more as well.
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What are the objective reasons for believing that the Qur'an is the word of God?
NONE whatsoever! -
NONE whatsoever!
Salams
An honest question to Genteel and CosmicDancer
If you are convinced that Quran is not a word of God then what are you doing on this forum?
There are two kinds of people in this forum
- those who are convinced that Quran is the word of God and wish to explore Quran.
- those who want to find out if Quran is the word of God or not.
Those who are convinced that it is not the word of God spend their time elsewhere; unless they know deep down that they are wrong.
Also how would you explain the word count miracle? Is the word count miracle a deception? Or was Mohammad super super smart to hide this mirale himself in Quran?
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Oh alright
There are plenty. Here are a few http//www.quran.org/code/allmmlh.htm
If you click on "Quran and Science" and look at the pull down menu on the top right, there are a lot more as well.
What if you discovered these "Mathematical Miracles" were false?
The first one on that link says "The word a day (yewm) is used 365 times in the Quran."
What if you discovered that this was not true.
Is your belief in the Qur'an based on these mathematical miracles?
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NONE whatsoever!
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Salams
An honest question to Genteel and CosmicDancer
If you are convinced that Quran is not a word of God then what are you doing on this forum?
There are two kinds of people in this forum
- those who are convinced that Quran is the word of God and wish to explore Quran.
- those who want to find out if Quran is the word of God or not.
Those who are convinced that it is not the word of God spend their time elsewhere; unless they know deep down that they are wrong.
Also how would you explain the word count miracle? Is the word count miracle a deception? Or was Mohammad super super smart to hide this mirale himself in Quran?
Why am I here?
I believed the Qur'an was the word of God for 48 years.
Do I doubt myself sometimes? All the time.
Do I think deep down I am wrong about the Qur'an? No.
But I do wonder if there is something I missed. Some angle I overlooked? Some interpretation that I was unaware of?
I have a need to test my limits. Look in every corner and under every rock - probe and poke at every question. I do that here but even more on other internet forums. At the moment the internet is my only outlet as I am now isolated from my old community and friends.
The more I probe and look - the more convinced I am that the Qur'an is false.
Why are you here?
As for the two groups you mention
- those who are convinced that Quran is the word of God and wish to explore Quran.
- those who want to find out if Quran is the word of God or not.
I suspect group 1 have many doubts about Islam also and The Qur'an only group is their last desperate attempt at holding onto their faith. Many come here to seek validation and have their beliefs confirmed so they can feel good about themselves.
As for group 2 - I suspect there are very few of those here.
Most people on this forum have made their mind up already - one way or the other.
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What if you discovered these "Mathematical Miracles" were false?
My friend, the "what if" can go either way.
I think it has been proven beyond reasonable doubts that the count is true. Here is a long debate. Ultimately the opponent ate humble pie and agreed on the count.
http//www.yuksel.org/e/religion/365days.htm
Another way to prove is to do a count yourself.
Whichever way you do, the burden to verify this is on your shoulder.
Lets suppose for the sake of discussion we both have agreed that the count is correct. What would you say? Can a human write such a book 1400 years ago? I am a computer programmer and I think I am good at math (what a show off I am). I certainly dont think a human can do this. Yes my belief is augmented due to the count and it is enough for me. I accept the book as it is. I try to explore Quran more. There are tons of things that I dont understand. There are things that dont make sense to me. I accept Quran even with all this. On the other hand you want to know why God wrote what he wrote before you accept his words. I dont think it could work this way.
The correct sequence is
YOU SEE MIRACLE -> YOU ACCEPT THE BOOK AS IT IS-> YOU STUDY IT TO LEARN -> YOU ACT ON IT
The wrong sequence is
YOU UNDERSTOOD WHY BOOK SAID WHAT IT SAID -> YOU ACCEPT THE BOOK BECAUSE ALL OF IT MADE SENSE TO YOU-> YOU ACT ON IT
In approach 2 we are assuming we can read God's mind.
People who dont use their brains following sequence 3 which is wrong as well
YOU ACCEPT THE BOOK BECAUSE YOUR MOM (PARENTS/CULTURE) SAID SO-> YOU OPTIONALLY STUDY IT TO LEARN -> YOU OPTIONALLY ACT ON IT