is following quran alone even quranic?
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Do you accept Quran as the Criterion or Bukhari is the Criterion?
Do you think this is not a relevant or important question but just superfluous?
Quran and Bukhari both superfluous? Is this the koh noor heera from you to me.
Mazhar Please .A serious discussion is going on.Do not try to detrack it ,otherwise
I assure you we will discuss it but certain questions need to be settled.If not then I will be sure you shed only "PEARLS AND DIAMONDS"{Leoxyz}Any discussion on any point before deciding/determining as to what is the criterion to arrive at the final conclusion about any matter is a waste of time, energy and falls in the category of . I don't mind even if you say that Bukhari is the ultimate criterion then at least we have a common base to discuss about some matter and get verdict from an authority.
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peace
ok i heard from some guy who follows hadith that certain hadith were from Allah, like Allah told muhammad all that was in quran and also some other things that they wrote outside of quran and wrote it in hadith, what do you all think of that?
also, the same guy gave me a verse from quran (i forgot the number), but it's saying that muhammad was given right to forbid or allow thing for people on his own... if anybody remembers that verse, i'd like to hear it, and know what it means
also saying muhammad was an example for us (also mentioned in quran) and we should follow what he did, as described in authentic hadith... what do you all think?
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peace
ok i heard from some guy who follows hadith that certain hadith were from Allah, like Allah told muhammad all that was in quran and also some other things that they wrote outside of quran and wrote it in hadith, what do you all think of that?
also, the same guy gave me a verse from quran (i forgot the number), but it's saying that muhammad was given right to forbid or allow thing for people on his own... if anybody remembers that verse, i'd like to hear it, and know what it means
also saying muhammad was an example for us (also mentioned in quran) and we should follow what he did, as described in authentic hadith... what do you all think?
Yes dear
That is true.
Muslims aer bound to to obey Prophet PBUH and He PBUH is an example for "MUSLIMS" but not for "NON MUSLIMS".332
(332) Say 'Obey Allah and obey the Messenger.' If they turn away from this then know that Allah does not love those who refuse to obey Him and His Messenger. -
peace
ok i heard from some guy who follows hadith that certain hadith were from Allah, like Allah told muhammad all that was in quran and also some other things that they wrote outside of quran and wrote it in hadith, what do you all think of that?
also, the same guy gave me a verse from quran (i forgot the number), but it's saying that muhammad was given right to forbid or allow thing for people on his own... if anybody remembers that verse, i'd like to hear it, and know what it means
also saying muhammad was an example for us (also mentioned in quran) and we should follow what he did, as described in authentic hadith... what do you all think?
A) Hadeeth Qudsi, they are called. I say, read the first part of 693.
B) 597, 7157. Messenger is a role, not a person and the goal of that role is to deliver the message.
C) Islam is described as the millat (i.e. religion) of Ibrahim, not of Muhammad (227. This must get the Muhammad worshippers' blood boiling. As for authentic hadeeth, correct. Now, show me a hadeeth which you yourself have verified to be authentic according to Quranic guidelines. The verification must be concrete and have no conjecture (something prevalent in the psuedoscience of hearsay).
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peace all
ok what's going on with this
7157 "Those who follow the Gentile messenger prophet whom they find written for them in the Torah and the Injeel; he orders them to goodness, and deters them from evil, and he makes lawful for them the good things, and he forbids for them the evil, and he removes their burden and the shackles that are upon them. So those who believe in him, and support him, and help him persevere, and follow the light that was sent down with him; these are the successful."
597 And whatever God provided to His messenger from the people of the townships, then it shall be to God and His messenger, and the relatives, and the orphans, and the poor, and the wayfarer. Thus, it will not remain monopolized by the rich among you. And you may take what the messenger gives you, but do not take what he withholds you from taking. And be aware of God, for God is mighty in retribution.
says in hadeth he said it's wrong to sleep on your left side, to eat with left hand, to enter a room with left foot, said that Allah hates people who sleep on their front side... and many more
who is muhammad to forbid things on his own, that are not forbidden in quran?
why is he allowed to just forbid and allow things left and right on his own, why?
and where are these things written which he forbade or allowed? in hadeth? -
Messenger is a role, not a person and the goal of that role is to deliver the message.
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Messenger is a role, not a person and the goal of that role is to deliver the message.
Half correct Messenger is a role
Half Wrong the goal is to deliver the message
His Duties are
3164
(3164) Surely Allah conferred a great favour on the believers when He raised from among them a Messenger to recite to them His signs, and to purify them, and to teach them the Book and Wisdom. For before that they were in manifest error.1Recitation of Verses
2Teaching of the Book and philosophy
3 Purification of SoulsWakas has issued me first warning.
Why do you people spread PEARLS AND DIAMOND ??
When I pick them up "warning is issued" FIRST WARNING -
Half correct Messenger is a role
Half Wrong the goal is to deliver the message
His Duties are
3164
(3164) Surely Allah conferred a great favour on the believers when He raised from among them a Messenger to recite to them His signs, and to purify them, and to teach them the Book and Wisdom. For before that they were in manifest error.1Recitation of Verses
2Teaching of the Book and philosophy
3 Purification of SoulsWakas has issued me first warning.
Why do you people spread PEARLS AND DIAMOND ??
When I pick them up "warning is issued" FIRST WARNINGSo if the aya said "Surely Allah conferred a great favour on the believers when He raised from among them a postman to deliver the letters, and to fight crime, and to make pizza. For before that they were in manifest error", then "postman"'s role is to deliver letters, fight crime, and make pizza? Another pearl from a hadeethist. Such logic is not unexpected from those who believe in magical flying horses and super-Arabs and those who believe Yusuf Ali is "Quranist".
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So if the aya said "Surely Allah conferred a great favour on the believers when He raised from among them a postman to deliver the letters, and to fight crime, and to make pizza. For before that they were in manifest error", then "postman"'s role is to deliver letters, fight crime, and make pizza? Another pearl from a hadeethist. Such logic is not unexpected from those who believe in magical flying horses and super-Arabs and those who believe Yusuf Ali is "Quranist".
The Cat is out the bagThis is mentality of the Quranists
What an exposure of the intentions !!!!All muslims should know.A clear Attack on the integrity of the Holy Prophet and the Holy Quran.
A few days back one Quranist talked about the "FACE of Allah " and this poster tried to prove "FOOT of allah"
Where are moderators now ??.
To call the quranists as brainless is a "CRIME" on this forum and a warning has been issued to me.
What should I call this ?? Brainful post
Wakas !!!
I want to know where do you stand ? -
A clear Attack on the integrity of the Holy Prophet and the Holy Quran.
Where are moderators now ??.
To call the quranists as brainless is a "CRIME" on this forum and a warning has been issued to me.
What should I call this ?? Brain ful post
Wakas !!!
I want to know where do you stand ?Please underline the "clear attack on the integrity of the Holy Prophet and the Holy Quran".
Seems like our troll has gotten too big for his bridge...
Please tell me
A) Who is "Buraq"?
B) What happened when Muhammad supposedly spat into a well or some dried source of water, with hundreds/thousands of thirsty people nearby, according to hadeeth?
C) Did you or did you not accuse Yusuf Ali's translation of being "Quranist" and "tampering"?
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Please underline the "clear attack on the integrity of the Holy Prophet and the Holy Quran".
Seems like our troll has gotten too big for his bridge...
Please tell me
A) Who is "Buraq"?
B) What happened when Muhammad supposedly spat into a well or some dried source of water, with hundreds/thousands of thirsty people nearby, according to hadeeth?
C) Did you or did you not accuse Yusuf Ali's translation of being "Quranist" and "tampering"?
What you are telling me in this post,did I ever mention them?
Then Wakas says ,I call Quranists "Brainless".
Tell me how I can answer those things which I have never mentioned .
Have I ever quoted any Hadith ?
Rather I have objection that Quranists quote Hadiths ?
Let me know you intentions about attacking the integrity of
1Holy Prophet
2Quran
3Allah (where you tried to prove His "Foot" -
ok i heard from some guy who follows hadith that certain hadith were from Allah, like Allah told muhammad all that was in quran and also some other things that they wrote outside of quran and wrote it in hadith, what do you all think of that?
That's ridiculous!
Makes al-quran pointless don't you think? what would be the point of 'sending al-quran down'.
Realize bukhari clamied to have collected over 600,000 hadeeth, that would mean that if he didn't sleep or eat ... he would be collecting a single hadeeth every 28 minutes. Another hint, they didn't have cars then. Also, he originated from Iran (not exactly across the street).
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Dear
That is true
Quran has1Words
which cannot by changed because Allah is by himself custodianUnfortunately this custodianship was not held for the books of hadith and sunna, and this is a good portion of the problem.
While I cannot speak for everyone here, for myself at least I can tell you that it's not that I do not want to follow the prophet. Most of us here, I'm sure, would love to have heard directly what The Prophet said about any given subject, and I'm positive there was a lot he said that would be followed as it would have fit the quran like a glove.
The problem we run into is that since the sayings and doings of the prophet outside of the recitation of the quran were not afforded the same protections by Allah, they are all suspect. Even the books that have been written over the centuries can only conjecture as to the strength of certain hadith (The science of hadith is constantly growing and expanding so that they feel they can be more and more certain, but still they cannot ever be 100% certain). This leaves us with the position that the only book we can truly trust is the Quran itself. Sure we can read through books of hadith and get a general idea of how certain things may have been taught in the time of the prophet, but these can not be accepted as fact.
Even if the isnad of the strongest hadith was 100% accurate, passed down through only the most knowledgable and learned men and women from the prophets time until even the first books of hadith were compiled in a single short century from the death of the Messenger, there is still the possibility of miscommunication. Not because I want there to be, but because humans are frail and, weak, and not very understanding.
Allah promised that the Quran would remain unchanged, I accept that promise and I accept the Quran, he did not promise to keep any other text safe, and therefor I can not accept any other text.
Nurd
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Salaam Nurd,
The problem we run into is that since the sayings and doings of the prophet outside of the recitation of the quran were not afforded the same protections by Allah, they are all suspect.
Prove that the Qur'an was protected from other than what the Qur'an says.
Hussein
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Salaam Nurd,
Prove that the Qur'an was protected from other than what the Qur'an says.
Hussein
I'm afraid I dont understand the wording of the question. Could you clarify so that I know precisely that of which you are asking of me?
And at the same time realize that I do not know Arabic at all.. I have read many english translations and transliterations but I do understand that there is not a 11 ratio of Arabic to English, so you will have to forgive me in advance if I find what appears to be a proper answer but turns out to be poorly translated.
Thank you and Peace,
Nurd
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When you claim that the Qur'an was completely protected, you need to support it with evidence. This is so especially when you use that criterion to reject Hadeeth. So, the Question is
How did you prove that the Qur'an was protected? To prove this, you will need to bring evidence from outside of the Qur'an. Why? because it is the work in question.
Take care and have a great day.
Hussein
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When you claim that the Qur'an was completely protected, you need to support it with evidence. This is so especially when you use that criterion to reject Hadeeth. So, the Question is
How did you prove that the Qur'an was protected? To prove this, you will need to bring evidence from outside of the Qur'an. Why? because it is the work in question.
Take care and have a great day.
Hussein
Ahh I understand now.. and I believe, to a certain degree, that you misunderstood. My rejection of hadith is solely on the basis that each hadith should not be taken at face value as fact. The entire work of hadith should be used to give us an idea of how the people of the prophets time and possibly the prophet himself viewed both Islam and the message of the Quran. Amongst every peoples their words, their fables, their old wives tales taken as a whole show us a lot about the people of that era
In order to accept the Quran, I have to accept what the Quran says, I do not need a second book to tell me how to accept the words of the Quran.. The Quran itself tells me that it is protected. If you look back, historically, at the Qurans of older times, the message is the same. This combined with the wording in the Quran that it will be protected is proof enough for me. If the books of Hadith were to remain exactly the same for all time, it would still not be proof enough because they were not guaranteed the same protection.
Peace,
Nurd
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How did you prove that the Qur'an was protected? To prove this, you will need to bring evidence from outside of the Qur'an. Why? because it is the work in question.
It's not just the work in question but what is in the works. Nothing wrong with gang-rape and all right?
Al-quran goes through the same verification process. That's for each person to decide. You don't supplement Lord of the Rings with Star wars.
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Correct Dargento. The Qur'an proves itself as a book that is slef consistent. How do you prove that nothing was added to it or subtracted from it?
Nurd, we all need tools of one sort or another to help us understand something else, whether Qur'an or anything else.
Take care all
Hussein
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Correct Dargento. The Qur'an proves itself as a book that is slef consistent. How do you prove that nothing was added to it or subtracted from it?
Nurd, we all need tools of one sort or another to help us understand something else, whether Qur'an or anything else.
Take care all
Hussein
Is it needed to "prove nothing was added to it or subtracted from it"? Such thinking gives precedence to people such as Rashad Khalifa. It is very silly to believe that the word of an omnipotent God could be modified. If the Quran was modified, what would stop God from sending the message down again, as per Torah and others?