According to the quran, what is the lowest heaven?
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Oh please. NEXT !!!
As usual when you have no answers.
How about every single thread I've started. Well, let's be clear. You answered them, but your answers were holier than swiss cheese and I showed you precisely why. No, just because you can type an answer does not mean you have settled the issue, so quit trying to pretend you have. It doesn't work.
And I answered your "answers". So what are you talking about here?
Citing? I haven't seen much of that, but go ahead, just make the claim.
That's your problem. I do cite my arguments.
Doesn't your answer have to at least add up or is that not a requirement for you? As far a sources go, I'm the one who provides the multiple translations for the verse, the Arabic text of the verse, the tafsir for the verses, and even some related hadiths if desired. Me. Not you. Me.
And I've already told you that I do not often consider traditional "Tafsir" or "Hadiths". I also provided verses with Arabic translations.
I said translators, not tafsir. Pay attention. Stop flubbing it.
they translate it according to the "Tafsir" of Ibn Kathir and the likes.
Are you insane or something?. I'm the guy who has provided the most sources, you have provided the most imagination.
See above.
Are you just trying to parrot what I say and then swap it around for no particularly good reason? It doesn't work. Try something else.
No.
Thank you.
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Oh, I completely understand, regardless of my "dummy"-ness. I agree the truth is inside of us. However, I do not see how this means it is impossible for the truth to be elsewhere, in order to help us find the truth within. I asked a simple question regarding the Bible - assuming you believe it is, at some point, from God. If you do not, then disregard my question and we will continue the current discussion.
Do yo want the truth? The truth is beyond words. Finding the truth is directly proportional to the amount of falsehoods one identifies. Truth can never truly be put into words sufficiently, because the truth isn't something we invented. But falsehoods can certainly be perfectly described by words because we invented falsewords, and we used our own words to do so. Therefore, falsehoods easliy fit into words. The truth isn't something that is found, because it's always right next to you. But, if you think it's something else, then you will search and search, to no avail.
Again, look above. The truth is inherently within us, which we do need to "find." We (can) do this by getting help from an external source that also contains the truth. But this seems to offend you.
. It doesn't offend me, what I said apparently flew completely over your head, based on the direction of your response. No biggie.Pure subjectivity. The thing you need to understand is, there are some people with beliefs - yes, actual individual beliefs that differ from others! Yes, some concepts can be found anywhere, but we believe the quran is the direct word of God so we choose to follow it, Others don't, fine. This seems to deeply bother you. You seem to rejoice in statements like "but when it comes to deeper wisdom, I could blow the Quran away."
To you are your beliefs, to me are mine. Sorry if this bothers you.
Heh, i show you things. You don't like them? Fine. Doesn't bother me at all. I show things, and generally, people here are the ones who get upset, not me. So why would you try to make me out as being bothered in anyway? I meant what I said. The Quran, from a spiritual perspective, is rather childish. For example, yes, I know it's supposed to be a warning, but it can't even seem to go more than 20 or 30 verses without mentioning punishment and reward. and if they reject guidance.....and if they accept guidance.....over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again. I remember thinking, geez, would you shut up already? I heard you the first time. ;D Seems like in many suras, he might run out of real points to make, so he always uses the threats and rewards, and long descriptions of them as a filler of sorts to fill out the sura
Now, while it mentions some good social rules (and maybe some not so good ones, depending on who you talk to), these rules are not what I would qualify as wisdom. They are common sense thinking from someone who seemed to want to create a social system of fairness. But I can't find anything deep or esoteric in the Quran. What verses of the Quran would you consider to be wisdom? For the most part, the Quran is nothing but a constant repeat of the same basic ideas that are merely repeated in different but similar ways. Those ideas are.
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There is only one God, and Muhammad is his last and most prominent messenger
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If you reject guidance, you'll drink molten lava. And you will cry out to the people that you see in paradise for a drink, and they will tell you that they are not allowed to help you. And your face will be burned, and then healed so that it can be re-burned. And Allah will rebuild you so that he can subject you to the torture of hell.
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If you accept guidance, you will be in paradise with rivers of wine that doesn't make you hung over, and gardens and couches, and (ahem) companions who nether man nor jinn have (ahem) touched, and you will wear green silk and silver bracelets, and apparently, you will see those in hell who's fate was different than your's and you will rejoice that you did not make the same mistakes. And you will feel vindicated and justified (your breast healed)
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Christians worship 3 Gods, the father the mother and the son. They are wrong and are going to hell for associating partners with Allah. And they have said a monstrous charge by claiming God had sex with Mary from behind in the missionary position, and that God has taken a human wife and son.
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Jesus was not crucified, God only made it look that way to deceive the Jews, after he had already saved Jesus and lifted him up. So the issue between Christians and Jews is settled, and both should be Muslims.
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Jews have always been rejectors and will surely go to hell as well.
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Both the Christians and Jews have purposefully corrupted their scriptures and the Quran is the only thing that is valid.
Fight the unbelievers, and spread the religion for Allah's sake until Allah's law rules all.
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Social recommendations and laws, including the infamous inheritance laws.
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Ideas of how Allah created everything and how things operate.
I'd say that's most of it right there. That's essentially the message of the Quran
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I read some mystics, and then went back and read the NT, and suddenly it was an entirely different book. Almost made me giggle.
Does it still contain the same errors? How did it almost make you "giggle"? You sound like a Sufi Muslim.
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Does it still contain the same errors? How did it almost make you "giggle"? You sound like a Sufi Muslim.
I am probably similar. Sufis have some interesting things to say, although they didn't get most of their concepts from the Quran because the Quran does not have deep concepts in it. They mostly borrowed from eastern thought.
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although they didn't get most of their concepts from the Quran because the Quran does not have deep concepts in it.
The Quran is all about deep concepts. You can ask one of them.
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I'd say that's most of it right there. That's essentially the message of the Quran
Nope.
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Well, perhaps you can give me a few deep concepts.
Even the fanatic Christians admit to deep concepts in the Quran. It'd be a waste of time explaining them to you.
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I am probably similar. Sufis have some interesting things to say, although they didn't get most of their concepts from the Quran because the Quran does not have deep concepts in it. They mostly borrowed from eastern thought.
You did not answer the questions.
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The core message of the Quran is in 6151-160.
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there aren't any to waste your time with. I've read it.
Billions have read it and found it full it full beauty, deep concepts etc.
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Who?
Many missionaries.
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What questions?
After doing your mystics, how did it "suddenly" become a completely different book? Did it still contain the same errors? How did it almost make you giggle?
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The core message of the Quran is in 6151-160.
006.151
YUSUFALI Say "Come, I will rehearse what Allah hath (really) prohibited you from" Join not anything as equal with Him; be good to your parents; kill not your children on a plea of want;- We provide sustenance for you and for them;- come not nigh to shameful deeds. Whether open or secret; take not life, which Allah hath made sacred, except by way of justice and law thus doth He command you, that ye may learn wisdom.Don't kill somebody unless they deserve it.
006.152
YUSUFALI And come not nigh to the orphan's property, except to improve it, until he attain the age of full strength; give measure and weight with (full) justice;- no burden do We place on any soul, but that which it can bear;- whenever ye speak, speak justly, even if a near relative is concerned; and fulfil the covenant of Allah thus doth He command you, that ye may remember.Don't touch an orphan's property except to add to it until he gets older. Are these orphans from battle?
006.153
YUSUFALI Verily, this is My way, leading straight follow it follow not (other) paths they will scatter you about from His (great) path thus doth He command you. that ye may be righteous.Do what I say.
006.154
YUSUFALI Moreover, We gave Moses the Book, completing (Our favour) to those who would do right, and explaining all things in detail,- and a guide and a mercy, that they might believe in the meeting with their Lord.God gave Moses a book that showed him the way
006.155
YUSUFALI And this is a Book which We have revealed as a blessing so follow it and be righteous, that ye may receive mercyTorah or Quran? It's not clear. I think somehow that it quickly switched to the Quran
006.156
YUSUFALI Lest ye should say "The Book was sent down to two Peoples before us, and for our part, we remained unacquainted with all that they learned by assiduous study"006.157
YUSUFALI Or lest ye should say "If the Book had only been sent down to us, we should have followed its guidance better than they." Now then hath come unto you a clear (sign) from your Lord,- and a guide and a mercy then who could do more wrong than one who rejecteth Allah's signs, and turneth away therefrom? In good time shall We requite those who turn away from Our signs, with a dreadful penalty, for their turning away.Now there are no excuses as Allah has finally delivered the right, non tamperable book, so pay sparse attention to the past scriptures for they are corrupted and replace them with the Quran
006.158
YUSUFALI Are they waiting to see if the angels come to them, or thy Lord (Himself), or certain of the signs of thy Lord! the day that certain of the signs of thy Lord do come, no good will it do to a soul to believe in them then if it believed not before nor earned righteousness through its faith. Say "Wait ye we too are waiting."Are they expecting to see miracles? That's not going to happen. The Quran is the miracle and that is sufficient. Reference the infamous phrase, if the mountain will not come to Muhammad, then Muhammad will go to the mountain.
006.159
YUSUFALI As for those who divide their religion and break up into sects, thou hast no part in them in the least their affair is with Allah He will in the end tell them the truth of all that they did.Don't break up into sects
006.160
YUSUFALI He that doeth good shall have ten times as much to his credit He that doeth evil shall only be recompensed according to his evil no wrong shall be done unto (any of) them.God has an accountant and a points redemption system
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After doing your mystics, how did it "suddenly" become a completely different book? Did it still contain the same errors? How did it almost make you giggle?
Oh, that one. Yes, it still contained errors. So what? It's a recounting of events. The errors or discrepancies don't affect the meaning as far as I'm concerned. Remember, as I keep saying, it's not the Gospel of Jesus, it's the Gospel according to (fill in the apostle's name). There is nothing that is being hidden about that fact. Not one single Christian will tell you that Jesus wrote the Gospels, or if they do, they are wrong. The titles clearly say it all right in front of you. According to Mark, or Luke, etc etc....meaning their recall and inspiration from God. We learn about Jesus not by being told specifically what to think about him, but by what occurs and what he said in the stories, or recountings. Who cares if there is a contradiction about the fig tree, That would probably happen with two different people's recall. But it was supposed to represent a larger deeper meaning anyway, so the exact details really aren't very important. If one is seeing every little detail of the New Testament, then one is not grasping the deeper meaning the New Testament.
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If one is seeing every little detail of the New Testament, then one is not grasping the deeper meaning the New Testament.
Haha, got to love the double standards.
As for your commentary on those verses, the book is the same for all things. It's a reference to the scripture sent to all messengers.