What's so bad about Interest?
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peace
I was thinking...why is charging interest such a bad thing?
Making an agreement which obliges you to pay interest is no different than any other agreement or contract. Two people can agree on whatever they want, as long as they both agree, it's fair.
And why would it be wrong for me to charge someone interest?
I mean, it's a way of making money, and I think it's the only reason that people are able to borrow money because very few people are willing to do favors without getting something in return.Well, I looked up the definition of "usury" and the first meanings given usually said "exorbitantly high/illegal rate of interest."
From the looks of it, the quran forbids people making "outstanding" amount of money and "gorging" themselves with usury...so I guess it is using the stricter definition.
We can charge interest, but not at an unfairly high rate?
But then, what decides what's unfair? How high is too high?
I mean, the quran doesn't forbid buying and selling, but a person can sell at an exorbitantly high price.Thoughts?
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Peace "lobster",
I thought i cleared this up in the "riba" thread. "Interest" is nothing more than a rent charged on currency and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. Riba is an INCREASE as the word itself implies. What cracks me up even more is that so called "Islamic" banks use the contractum trinius to fool the people theyr interest free. Infact they make a contract with a person who wants to buy a good. Then they buy the good at the usual market price and sell it off to the person at a higher price which he pays in installments. At the same time they make another security contract which completely insures that they get the money from the person. THIS INCREASE("MURABAHA" AS IT IS CALLED; NOTE THE ROOT RIBA IN IT AND THATS "ISLAMIC" LOL) IS EQUAL TO THE INTEREST CHARGED IN MOST WESTERN COUNTRIES OR EVEN GREATER. So what the hell is the difference? GOD Bless! -
Peace "lobster",
But then, what decides what's unfair? How high is too high?
I mean, the quran doesn't forbid buying and selling, but a person can sell at an exorbitantly high price.JK- Three words "THE SCIENTIFIC METHOD". This also varies from region to region depending on the conditon of the people and hence needs to be thoroughly worked out through proper scientific market analysis. GOD Bless!
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Salaam lobster
I agree with Johny that "ribaa" is excessive profit in selling and buying any commodity, including monopoly of an item with the intent of selling it at a very high price. That's why God says "And they say trade is like ribaa, and God makes trade (bai`/bai3) lawful and prohibits "ribaa". If ribaa is interest on money, why would people say trade is like ribaa? That's what they are doing now, as from the example of islamic banks given by Johny pretend to being engaged in trade while in fact they are committing ribaa, because they are both of the same nature (normal trade and excessive profits).
So most probably you got it right ;D
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Peace "yosemite",
When you got your money in a bank account every year you receive a percentage of your total money, like 2 or 3 % of your money every year. SOme say this form of interest is forbidden.
???
JK- Yes and they do so because they are either ignorant or theyr deliberately fooling people. When one places a currency in a bank, he/she is GIVING A LOAN to it and can demand a "rent" i.e. intrerest for it. But obviously the bank pay out less interest to its investors than it takes for lending out a currency otherwise they wouldnt make any profit but loss. GOD Bless!
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But then, what decides what's unfair? How high is too high?
The thing is it's subjective (high profit); I think it imo probably means contrasted to something else. What we have as a standard would be the market value/rate and if it costs/is costing way above that, the only way to do/charge so would be a monopoly, not a free market ('cause no one would buy it and the guy out of business). Thus, to keep it at the same level would be encouraging/sustaining a free market and not a monopoly/cartel.
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When you take a loan, you often do it out of choice.. so you agree to pay interest. So the bank is allowed to charge interest. Both parties enter the agreement willfully by choice.
The problematic situation is when a person is in dire need of money, and the lender puts a high interest rate just because he can, because the needy has to borrow, and has no option but to go along with whatever the lender says. This is exploitation. -
Selling something at excessive profit is unethical perhaps, but classifying it as "riba"? Evidence please.
Agreed, it's a bit fuzzy.
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God didn't say "Give money to your children." when God told us about inheritance, rather, wrote a few volumes on the topic, but when God forbids us usury, he tells us nothing. Hmmph...
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riba is taking advantage of people's inability to repay loans,
which increases the divide between rich and poor.What God is saying is that don't do money lending unless you are
willing to write-off your losses (as way of charity).But firstly, don't lend money unless you are willing to make a loss.
In trade (business) you can make profit as well as loss. Infact that is the definition of business.The kind of money-lending we see today the banks never make a loss. That is not trade that is riba.
When banks say they have written-off losses, they are lying ... they get it all back with interest through
insurance.God isn't stopping you from making money from lending money, but he wants you accpet your losses aswell.
Ofcourse God doesn't want you to go crazy with the charity thing and loose all your money, it about doing
things justly and accepting losses where the client has no means to pay you ... not reposses everything he owns and drive him further into debt. In most cases you can always recover the orginal sum. -
The kind of money-lending we see today the banks never make a loss. That is not trade that is riba.
When banks say they have written-off losses, they are lying ... they get it all back with interest through
insurance.I do not totally agree here. Insurance is for when the borrower loses their job or be sick (loses means of getting money), and it is voluntary. Yet, without insurance there are other ways the bank writes off their loans, and that's through bankruptcy and voluntary insolvency, or even debt management when the installments are high compared to income. Some debt management companies succeed in freezing the interest and the borrower pays what they can, or be directed to insolvency or bankruptcy.
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Who's justifying what now?
I thought i cleared this up in the "riba" thread. "Interest" is nothing more than a rent charged on currency and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that.
That's why God says "And they say trade is like ribaa, and God makes trade (bai`/bai3) lawful and prohibits "ribaa". If ribaa is interest on money, why would people say trade is like ribaa?
so "riba" is overly excessive profit. that makes sense.
in memory of this http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=14716.0
When you take a loan, you often do it out of choice..
Layth posted this story a good while back.
I Want the Earth Plus 5%
http//www.gold-eagle.com/editorials_99/hannigan092099.htmlChildren used to, when asked, "What do you want to be when you grow up?" say certain occupations like, "I want to be a fireman" etc.. etc... today studies have found most children answer the question with "I want to be rich!"
Generation Me.
http//www.generationme.org/Born to Buy
http//www.amazon.com/Born-Buy-Commercialized-Consumer-Culture/dp/068487055Xetc...
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) in memory of this http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=14716.0
Layth posted this story a good while back.
I Want the Earth Plus 5%
http//www.gold-eagle.com/editorials_99/hannigan092099.htmlChildren used to, when asked, "What do you want to be when you grow up?" say certain occupations like, "I want to be a fireman" etc.. etc... today studies have found most children answer the question with "I want to be rich!"
Generation Me.
http//www.generationme.org/Born to Buy
http//www.amazon.com/Born-Buy-Commercialized-Consumer-Culture/dp/068487055Xetc...
That story is a very good piece, sums up my thoughts on usury.
Usury is forbidden, no additional details are given, period.
