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  3. Questions/Comments on the Quran
  4. a good Christian and a bad Muslim

a good Christian and a bad Muslim

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved Questions/Comments on the Quran
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  • J Offline
    J Offline
    Jack
    wrote on last edited by
    #9

    Peace,

    Okay here's what I came up with about Idolaters

    296 They are obsessed with living extremely long lives.

    2105 They wish ill-will towards believers..

    3186 While believers face worldly tests; idolaters insult them

    582 Jews and idolaters have great animosity towards believers, while christians/nazerenes are closer in affection.

    622-23 Idolaters are asked about the partners they set up besides God (on judgement day) and they deny being idolaters swearing by God !.

    6121 Obeying the devils (laws not authorized by God) = idolatry

    6137 Their idols cause them to do atrocious things like killing their own children, inflicting great pain, and confusing the religion for them..

    6148 They follow conjecture.

    94 You are to be truthful and keep your word when dealing with idolaters, as long as they don't plan to attack.

    95 If they refuse to uphold peace, we are to make war against them

    96 However, if they come in peace, they should be allowed to be part of the group.

    97 Again, exempted are those who are looking for peace.

    917 Not to frequent God's temples; their works have fallen.

    933 The religion of truth will prevail in spite of idolatry

    936 Allowed to declare all-out war against idolaters if they declare all out war.

    9107 They divide the believers, and lie about their intentions.

    12106 Majority of the believers in God are idolaters

    1635 They prohibit things not authorized by God, and distort the message of the messengers.

    1686-87 Idolaters invent idols; Their idols disown them on judgment day.

    2230 "So avoid the foulness of idols and avoid saying false statements."

    3031-32 Splitting up the system/religion into sects is idolatry

    3042 Idolaters dig their own grave (in the hereafter), so to speak.

    3965 Idolatry cancels all works.

    4213 They love to split up the system i.e. cause chaos

    486 Their evil will come back to haunt them

    981 They insist on their ways despite the proof.

    Please verify it yourself. This is the message I saw in the respective verses/signs.

    Why idolatry is unfair

    3028

    Khalifa
    He cites for you herein an example from among yourselves Do you ever elevate your servants or subordinates to the level where they rival you, and to the point that you pay them as much allegiance as is being paid to you? We thus explain the revelations for people who understand.

    -Imran

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    • B Offline
      B Offline
      Bigmo
      wrote on last edited by
      #10

      The first question you need to ask is 'What makes someone a submitting person (muslim)?'

      The criteria of a submitting person (muslim) are belief in God along with the hereafter and lead a righteous life so if someone does not practice any of them then he is not a submitting person (muslim). It is as simple as that.

      I will second that. Very good point.

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      • A Offline
        A Offline
        amuslim
        wrote on last edited by
        #11

        Peace

        262
        Those who believe (in the Qur'an), and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Christians and the Sabians,- any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.

        569
        Those who believe (in the Qur'an), those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Sabians and the Christians,- any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness,- on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.

        Of course this isnt talking about modern day Christians, because they practice shirk. They can say its a monothiestic religion but I can say the same by saying that I worship 1 God but with 4 aspects a father, a mother, a son, and a daughter. If I brought this up to even a trinitarian they would tell me that it was polytheistic yet that is exactly what they do. The Quran categorizes these people separately

        572
        Laqad kafara allatheena qaloo inna Allaha huwa almaseehu ibnu maryama waqala almaseehu ya banee isra-eela oAAbudoo Allaha rabbee warabbakum innahu man yushrik biAllahi faqad harrama Allahu AAalayhi aljannata wama/wahu alnnaru wama lilththalimeena min ansarin

        572
        Certainly they disbelieve who say "Allah is Christ the son of Mary." But said Christ "O Children of Israel! worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord." Whoever joins other gods with Allah,- Allah will forbid him the Garden, and the Fire will be his abode. There will for the wrong-doers be no one to help.

        We are also born with the natural instinct of God in us, I think that I can equate it to that of like the animals however we are able to choose whether to follow it or not, while the animals cannot choose and are always submitting to God in that fashion amongst others.

        Same goes for this "muslim" that you are comparing/contrasting with the Christian. He is not a Muslim, it is only a name to him. Had he been a true Muslim, he would have followed the Quran. A lot of people are like this, be it Christian, Muslim, etc., its all a namesake. A true Christian actually follows monotheism, as stated in the above verses to attain paradise. Where this trinity comes in is all hearsay. You shouldn't need a book to know God. Even in this book called the New Testament, Jesus never claims such a divinity.

        In all, judgements are done only by Allah, Al Hakeem Al Hakam.

        Peace

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        • A Offline
          A Offline
          Allen
          wrote on last edited by
          #12

          Peace

          .

          Of course this isnt talking about modern day Christians, because they practice shirk. They can say its a monothiestic religion but I can say the same by saying that I worship 1 God but with 4 aspects a father, a mother, a son, and a daughter. If I brought this up to even a trinitarian they would tell me that it was polytheistic yet that is exactly what they do. The Quran categorizes these people separately

          This concept of trinity /shirk was present even during the period when Quran was revealed.It is not something afterthought.

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          • U Offline
            U Offline
            unknownuser
            wrote on last edited by
            #13

            This concept of trinity /shirk was present even during the period when Quran was revealed.It is not something afterthought.

            A bit misunderstood; God and Holy Spirit really no difference and 3rd person in trinity was/is?

            CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH
            http//www.scborromeo.org/ccc/p122a3p2.htm

            495 Called in the Gospels "the mother of Jesus", Mary is acclaimed by Elizabeth, at the prompting of the Spirit and even before the birth of her son, as "the mother of my Lord".144 In fact, the One whom she conceived as man by the Holy Spirit, who truly became her Son according to the flesh, was none other than the Father's eternal Son, the second person of the Holy Trinity. Hence the Church confesses that Mary is truly "Mother of God" (Theotokos).

            (&#1638

            5116 And when All?h will say "O 's, son of Maryam! Did you say unto men 'Worship me and my mother as two gods besides All?h?' "He will say "Glory be to You! It was not for me to say what I had no right. Had I said such a thing, You would surely have known it. You know what is in my inner-self though I do not know what is in Yours, truly, You, only You, are the All-Knower of all that is hidden.

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            • A Offline
              A Offline
              Allen
              wrote on last edited by
              #14

              A bit misunderstood; God and Holy Spirit really no difference and 3rd person in trinity was/is?

              CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH
              http//www.scborromeo.org/ccc/p122a3p2.htm

              495 Called in the Gospels "the mother of Jesus", Mary is acclaimed by Elizabeth, at the prompting of the Spirit and even before the birth of her son, as "the mother of my Lord".144 In fact, the One whom she conceived as man by the Holy Spirit, who truly became her Son according to the flesh, was none other than the Father's eternal Son, the second person of the Holy Trinity. Hence the Church confesses that Mary is truly "Mother of God" (Theotokos).

              (&#1638

              5116 And when All?h will say "O 's, son of Maryam! Did you say unto men 'Worship me and my mother as two gods besides All?h?' "He will say "Glory be to You! It was not for me to say what I had no right. Had I said such a thing, You would surely have known it. You know what is in my inner-self though I do not know what is in Yours, truly, You, only You, are the All-Knower of all that is hidden.

              What can be talked about persons who 'follow the Shaitaan" (number one ).

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              • U Offline
                U Offline
                unknownuser
                wrote on last edited by
                #15

                Peace all,

                1. A PERSON CAN BELIEVE IN GOD AND STILL BE AN IDOLATER

                12106 And most of them will not believe in God except while setting-up partners.

                1. BOTH BELIEF IN GOD AND GOOD DEEDS NECESSARY, NOT JUST ONE OF THEM

                Progressive Muslims (en)

                262 Surely those who believe; and those who are Jewish, and the Nazarenes, and the Sabians, whomever of them believes in God and the Last Day and does good work; they will have their reward with their Lord, with no fear over them, nor will they grieve.

                569 Surely those who believe; and those who are Jewish, and the Sabians, and the Nazarenes, whomever of them believes in God and the Last Day and does good work; then they will have nothing to fear nor will they grieve.

                Also see

                225 262 282 2277 357 4122 4124 4173 569 593 104 109 1123 1329 1423 1697 179 182 1830 18107 1960 1996 2075 20112 2194 2214 2223 2250 2256 2455 2570 26227 2867 2880 297 299 2958 3015 3045 318 3219 3319 344 3437 357 3824 3828 3910 4058 418 4222 4223 4226 4521 4530 4620 472 4712 4829 649 6511 8425 8511 956 987 1033

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                • G Offline
                  G Offline
                  Glory_be_to_allah
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #16

                  More opinions

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                  • L Offline
                    L Offline
                    Lena
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #17

                    The first question you need to ask is 'What makes someone a submitting person (muslim)?'

                    The criteria of a submitting person (muslim) are belief in God along with the hereafter and lead a righteous life so if someone does not practice any of them then he is not a submitting person (muslim). It is as simple as that.

                    The difficulty occurs when considering the phrase "and leads a righteous life". Quran 2177 defines righteousness. Besides setting slaves free (how many Muslims/ Christians/ Hindu etc are financial supporters of Anti slavery International or other organisations that tackle modern day slavery issues?) the definition includes "and they observe the contact prayers " / "performs As-salat". There are considerable differences in interpretation of the meaning of the Arabic words aqaamas - salaata. Some see it as ritual prayers due to time frame requirements, ablution and actual names of prayers mentioned in Quran (Fajr, Al Wustaa, Isha) and some don't. If it is important to our salvation shouldn't there at least be a consensus what is salat?

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                    • Z Offline
                      Z Offline
                      Zulf
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #18

                      If it is important to our salvation shouldn't there at least be a consensus what is salat?

                      Nope, because consensus is useless in that it can be either right or wrong. The %age of people agreeing to something doesn't make it more right or more wrong. But I understand what you're saying.

                      Perhaps we are approaching salat from the wrong end. We are trying to disect it using cross-reference and etymology and whatever it is called that people do... and that is all good I think, because it can remove alot of falsehood and invented lies, however, maybe we can be guided towards doing salat by God even without knowing that it is salat we are doing. Perhaps we are too stuck up with the word sometimes. This might sound odd since the word is in the quran... but in the end, what is important is what we live/do in our lives and why... it is the output and intentions that matter.... not what we call it. As far as the word salat is concerned, I don't think there ever will be a consensus.

                      Also, our footprint on our own soul won't depend on our understanding of a word. We'll do what we feel i right, not what we think a word means...

                      Peace and best wishes.

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