Where is this Verse?...
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Salam,
I was speaking to a practicing Chrisitian friend who said how the Qur'an said "Words of God cannot be changed", but could not cite a reference.
He thinks there is a contradiction as previous Sciptures have been altered according to the Qur'an.
To those aquanted with the Qur'an, these sorts of arguments are refuted very easily. I explained two Verses to him on the PC, he accepted that they are refering to the Qur'an alone.
But I needed to read the Verse itself, he said he read it a while ago in his Yusuf Ali translation. He quoted ""Words of God cannot be changed"
Does anyone know which Verse this is in Yusuf Ali's translation?
Many thanks, May Allah reward you.
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hey Ace maybe these ayat
634
6115
1064
1827
Allah bless and sustain you, brother. i have a dear friend who is fundamentalist Christian, and "inter-faith dialogue" with him is one of my favorite pastimes. especially if it gets us kicked out of Wal-Mart for being loud.
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Nowhere does it say the previous scripture had been altered in the Quran.
If you look, we have always had "Hadeeth" of the prophets.
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I have looked into the Verses. Two of them most probably contain the Verse he (the Christian friend) was refering to.
I have concluded that these Verses refer to God's decree when it says kalima or kalimaat (word/words), and not the directly revealed Scriptures of God.
Lets look at the following Verse
"Messengers before you were denied, but they were patient for what they were denied, and they were harmed until Our victory came to them; there is no changing the words of God. News of the messengers has come to you."
Lets look at the discussion of the Verse. It continues the discussion from the previous Verse, of the disbelievers rejecting the Messenger. It consoles the Prophet by saying how Messengers before were denied, how they were patient in the face of harm. However, the Verse states how God's victory came to them (at a predetermined time). To emphesise that it is God's decree that God will help his messengers by sending 'victory' after hardship, God says 'There is no changing the words of God'. The words of God, is the 'decree' of God. This is supported by the following Verses where 'words' of God have been explicitly used to refer to the 'decrees' of God
"The angels called out to him while he stood praying in the sanctuary, 'God gives you news of John, confirming a word from God"
The above Verse, the word "word" is used to refer to a decree of God that John will be born. So the 'word (decree) of God' is that John is to be born, and the comming of John is now "confirming a word (decree) of God".
Also note the same in the following Verse
"The angels said, 'Mary, God gives you news of a word from Him, whose name will be Massiah, Jesus son of Mary, who will be held in honour in this world, and the next, who will be one of those bought near to God" "
Again note, the "word" from God, is the 'decree' of God, which is that the comming of Jesus, son of Mary. If we go back to the original Verse under discussion
"Messengers before you were denied, but they were patient for what they were denied, and they were harmed until Our victory came to them; there is no changing the words of God. News of the messengers has come to you."
Looking at the Verse, the sudden mentioning of "there is no changing the words of God" makes sense only if we interpret it correctly to mean there is no change in the 'decree' of God. The decree of God in this Verse being the fact that God's will was that he will send victory to the messenger. If we read the Verse while interpreting it to mean 'Scriptures of God', it would like the following
"...and they were harmed until Our victory came to them; there is no changing the words of God (scriptures?). News of the messengers has come to you."
The sudden change of context to mention there is no change in God's Scripture, and then back to the original context would not be fitting. It is actually all under one context because as we have seen, 'words' mean the promise, which is the victory in this Verse. We can now see that the word 'word' has been used in the Qur'an to refer to God's decrees or promises.
Now let's look at the the other Verse which uses 'words of God' to refer to God's decrees and promises
"For God's allies, there is no fear over them nor will they grieve. Those who believed and were aware, for them are glad tidings in the worldly life and in the Hereafter. There is no changing the words of God. Such is the great success."
In the above Verse, the word of God, that is, the decree of God, is that for 'those who believed and were aware' they will have "glad tidings in the worldly life and in the Hereafter. That is the promise and decree of God, the word of God. If we interpret it to mean 'Scriptures of God', then it would not make as much sense to have a sudden jump in the context, notice the change in context while you interpret "words" as 'scriptures'
"...for them are glad tidings in the worldly life and in the Hereafter. There is no changing the words (sciptures?) of God. Such is the great success."
We can draw an analogy of this Qur'anic expression with the english expression 'he kept his words', or 'I will keep my word' etc.
Note that these Verses we have discussed do also refer to the promises made in the previous Scriptures (Torah, Gospels etc.) as well as the Qur'an. Even if the previous Scriptures have been altered, the decrees and promises made in the previous Scriptures are a hundred percent true promises that God will keep to, even if the actual words of the Scriptures have been altered. Thus even if we were to take the expression 'there is no chaning in the God's words' to refer to previous Scriptures, it is still valid, because it is refering the God's binding promises and decrees of those Scriptures that were originally revealed ie. promises of the reality of the Hereafter, Resurrection, Heaven, Hell, the fact that the evil ones are punished with evil and the good ones are rewarded with good etc..
Ok that will be it. However, I would be greatful if anyone here knows of any other Verses which uses the word 'word' (kalima) in this way, so I can use it to further back up the interpretation (just like the Verse of Mary and Zacharia). Many thanks, and thanks for reading.
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Note that these Verses we have discussed do also refer to the promises made in the previous Scriptures (Torah, Gospels etc.) as well as the Qur'an. Even if the previous Scriptures have been altered, the decrees and promises made in the previous Scriptures are a hundred percent true promises that God will keep to, even if the actual words of the Scriptures have been altered.
hey, Ace.
i would agree. also, there is a phrase which comes up numerous times in the Quran, Ummi al-Kitab, the Mother of the Book, which has been described as the eternal codex of the Quran or of God's Word which is with God, and is perfect and ineffable. it is apparently a separate thing from the Quran that we could hold in our hands here, but the revealed Quran is, perhaps you could say, a manifestation of the Ummi al-Kitab.
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Peace AceOfHearts,
I agree with your excellent understanding.
Following are some more verses supporting this understanding
2124 And Abraham was tested by commands/decrees (bikalimaatin) from His Lord, which he completed. He said "I will make you a leader for the people." He said "And also from my progeny?" He said "My pledge will not encompass the wicked."
7137 And We let the people who were weak inherit the east of the land and the west of it which We have blessed. And the good word/decree/command (kalimatu) of your Lord was completed towards the Children of Israel for their patience; and We destroyed what Pharaoh and his people were doing, and what they contrived.
87 And God promises you that one of the two parties will be defeated by you; and you wish that the one least armed be the one. But God wishes that the truth be manifest with His words/decrees/commands (bikalimaatihi), and that He eliminates the remnant of the rejecters.
1019 The people were but one nation, then they differed. And had it not been for a previous command/decree (kalimatun) from your Lord, the matter would have been immediately judged between them for what they differed.
1033 It was thus that your Lord's command/decree (kalimatu) came against those who were wicked, for they do not believe.
11110 We have given Moses the Scripture, yet they disputed in it; and had it not been for a word/decree/command (kalimatun) which was already given by your Lord, their case would have been judged immediately. They are in grave doubt concerning it.
11119 Except whom your Lord has mercy upon; and for that He has created them. And the word/decree/command (kalimatu) of your Lord came true "I will fill Hell with the Jinn and the people together!"
20129 And had it not been for a word/decree/command (kalimatun) already given by your Lord, they would have been held to account immediately.
37171-173 directly proves from al-qur'aan that WORD = DECREE/COMMAND according to context.
37171 Our word/decree/command (kalimatuna) had been passed to Our servants who were sent.
37172 That they would be made victorious.
37173 And that Our soldiers are the winners.3919 As for those who have deserved the decree/command (kalimatu) of retribution; can you save those who are in the Fire?
406 And as such, the word/decree/command (kalimatu) of your Lord has come to pass upon those who rejected, that they are the dwellers of the Fire.
4145 And We have given Moses the Scripture, but it was disputed in. And had it not been for your Lord's predetermined decree/command (kalimatun), they would have been judged immediately. Indeed, they harbor many doubts about it.
4214 And they only divided after the knowledge had come to them, due to resentment among themselves. And had it not been for a predetermined decree/command (kalimatun) from your Lord, they would have been judged immediately. Indeed, those who inherited the Scripture after them are full of doubts.
4221 Or do they have partners who decree for them a system which has not been authorized by God? And if it were not for the word/decree/command (kalimatu) already given, they would have been judged immediately. Indeed, the transgressors will have a painful retribution.
4826 Those who rejected had put in their hearts the rage of the days of ignorance, then God sent down tranquility upon His messenger and the believers, and directed them to uphold the decree/command (kalimata) of righteousness, and they were well entitled to it and worthy of it. And God is fully aware of all things.
The context of the signs determines whether "kalima" is used as "word" or "decree". Where it means literal changing of words, the phrase "yuharrifoona al-kalima" is used (446, 513), instead of "mubaddila likalimaati Allaahi" usually used for decree/command of The God (634, 6115, 1064).
An exception seems to be 1827
1827 And recite what has been inspired to you from your Lord's Scripture, there is no changing His words (laa mubaddila likalimaatihi), and you will not find besides Him any refuge.
However, here it is referring to "Lord's scripture/book" (kitaabi rabbika) the words of which will never change, which is a separate thing from the inspired al-qur'aan, as evident from the usage of "min"/from between the two. This is the "umm al-kitaab" in my understanding, which is with The God.
"And recite what has been inspired to you (i.e. al-qur'aan) FROM/MIN your Lord's Scripture (i.e. umm al-kitaab)"
1339 God erases what He wishes and affirms, and with Him is the mother of the book (umm al-kitaab).
434 And it is held honorable and wise in the mother of the book (umm al-kitaab) with Us.
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Peace,
As we say in Sweden, a dear child has many names. Same goes for Quran aswell it seems like.
Maria
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Peace all,
I think "umm al-kitaab" is the master record which includes al-qur'aan along with all the other scriptures revealed so far, and "lawh mahfooth" is the master recording device or the master computer, in which the master record is stored.
8521 No, it is a glorious Qur'an.
8522 In a tablet, preserved (lawhin mahfoothin). -
Peace all,
I think "umm al-kitaab" is the master record which includes al-qur'aan along with all the other scriptures revealed so far, and "lawh mahfooth" is the master recording device or the master computer, in which the master record is stored.
8521 No, it is a glorious Qur'an.
8522 In a tablet, preserved (lawhin mahfoothin).Who has given this term of "Ummul -Kitaab" to "Lohi Mahfooz" ?
Quran or some kitchen cabinet? -
Peace Humble,
Who has given this term of "Ummul -Kitaab" to "Lohi Mahfooz" ?
Quran or some kitchen cabinet?I haven't. You are quoting me and making a comment irrelevant to what I said. You need to read what I said again carefully. Given your careless attitude, no further comments from me.
Peace
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Peace Humble,
I haven't. You are quoting me and making a comment irrelevant to what I said. You need to read what I said again carefully. Given your careless attitude, no further comments from me.
Peace
Dear
Peace AceOfHearts,
434 And it is held honorable and wise in the mother of the book (umm al-kitaab) with Us.
I think no one has right to change divine terms.
You always try to convey un-authenticated and fabricated information and this is one example. -
Dear
I think no one has right to change divine terms.
You always try to convey un-authenticated and fabricated information and this is one example.Salaam "Humble"
Is this a deja vu?
Why don't you say how you understand these terms instead of preaching and interrogating?
Humble should not just be a screen name. -
Dear
I think no one has right to change divine terms.
You always try to convey un-authenticated and fabricated information and this is one example.Isn't it funny that a "Humble" person with just 12 posts can make a statement about someone "always" doing something?