Menstruating women praying and fasting
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From my understanding of Quran, it seems clear that menstruating women are only barred from coitus. They are certainly NOt banned from salaath and saum. Salaath is so iportant that it has to be performed even during fighting or even while sick. So it defies logic that menstruating women who even go out and work 8 hours a day are BANNED from salaath.
True, sick people are exempt (but not prohibited) from fasting but the choice is given to the individual whether his/her sickness is serious enough not to fast. Some women do have terrible Periods and these may excuse themselves from fasting but the others who would have fasted are BANNED from fasting by both Sunnism and Shi'ism.
Currently, I have entered into a heated argument on this issue with a Sunni from America who calls himself "Defender of The Sunnah". Unfortunately, what undermines my argument is none of the other Quranic Muslims emphasise on this point. Why?
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Peace to all,
Why cant menstruating women fast if they are able to?
I'm against discrimination in any form. Degrading women because they're menstruating can also be called 'discrimination'. In some cultures women can't cook a meal, simply because they're considered to be not 'clean'.
Did the Almighty label menstruating women as not being 'clean'? I don't believe so. I believe that it's a manmade rule.I never read in the Quran anything about menstruating women not being allowed to perform their 'salat'/prayers or not to fast. I did read the verse wherein the Almighty claims that it's "impure" to have sex with your spouse when she's menstruating. But what do we consider to be "impure"? Isn't the Almighty only focusing on our inside/soul and emphasizes on taking care of our innerselves? So why should we focus too much on the outside? Is the Almighty really referring to menstruation as something "impure"? Or do we, humans, interpret it that way?
QuestionMy husband says we cannot have sex while I am on my period because it's unhealthy. Is that true from a medical point of view, or is it just a taboo?
--Natasha
Answer
Intercourse during a woman's period has been a common taboo throughout the world, in many different cultures and time periods. In some societies, women were isolated from the rest of the community during the menses. One reason for this is that blood may attract predators, and the society did not want to put the entire tribe or village at risk. Another is that women were thought to have special powers during "that time of the month."For the average, mutually monogamous couple with no sexually transmitted disease, there is no medical reason to avoid sex during menses. Blood is a good medium for certain infectious agents to grow in, and blood does transmit the HIV virus, so certainly those at risk should not have sex during a period -- or ever have sex without a condom.
Source http//health.ivillage.com/gynoperiod/printercourse/0,,wv,00.html
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A misinterpretation of the word "impure"?
AmirFrom my understanding of Quran, it seems clear that menstruating women are only barred from coitus.
And what if that woman wants to have sex and the partner doesn't mind her period? Does the Almighty forbids them therein?
I myself think it's just a misinterpretation and got mixed up with cultural myths/beliefs.
Just sharing my thoughts.
peace
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Peace,
Whilst I agree that menstruating women shouldn't be 'discriminated' against in a social context, or barred from praying/fasting etc.....
And what if that woman wants to have sex and the partner doesn't mind her period? Does the Almighty forbids them therein?
What if? What if they want to commit 3 way bestiality? What if they want to watch child porn?
My point Just because one desires it, doesn't make it okay by any means nor does it make it right.
God wants us to study the world a bit, the quran is not going to contain every single answer to our questions (or it would be a million pages long) It does contain the answer to this question. But in any case, quran is a guide. If God was going to hold our hands, there's be no point to this life.
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"Progressive Muslims"And they ask you about menstruation? Say "It is harmful, so retire yourselves sexually from the women during the menstruation, and do not approach them until they are cleansed. When they are cleansed, then you may approach them as God has commanded you." God loves the repenters and He loves the cleansed.
peace
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Peace,
Whilst I agree that menstruating women shouldn't be 'discriminated' against in a social context, or barred from praying/fasting etc.....
What if? What if they want to commit 3 way bestiality? What if they want to watch child porn?
My point Just because one desires it, doesn't make it okay by any means nor does it make it right.
God wants us to study the world a bit, the quran is not going to contain every single answer to our questions (or it would be a million pages long) It does contain the answer to this question. But in any case, quran is a guide. If God was going to hold our hands, there's be no point to this life.
2222
"Progressive Muslims"And they ask you about menstruation? Say "It is harmful, so retire yourselves sexually from the women during the menstruation, and do not approach them until they are cleansed. When they are cleansed, then you may approach them as God has commanded you." God loves the repenters and He loves the cleansed.
peace
Peace D'Argento,
I don't believe the Almighty forbids us humans of sexual intercourse while the women are in their menstruation cycle. I think it's just a misinterpretation of the word 'impure' and/or 'harmful'... It's a pity that I don't have my Arabic dictionairy with me, because I'm very curious to know what classical Arabic words are being misinterpreted by the translators.
I believe that the Almighty warns the men of the pain and agony (both mentally and physically) that menstruation causes. When they're 'freed'/cleansed/purified of these pain (i.e. cramps and moodswings) then they're allowed, if both agree ofcourse, to have sexual intercourse.
We tend to forget about the barbaric approach of men towards their women when they desire sex. I believe the Almighty just warns them of the harm of not being gentle with their women.Just sharing my thoughts once again!
peace
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A common accusation against Quranic Muslims is that they are modernists influenced by the West. In my opinion, this view is justified as a good number of Quranists (notably the Tulu-e-Islam movement of Pakistan) are modernists. It seems to be confirmed by the view expressed by one member here who even argues that coitus is permissible during menses. For me, the Quran is very clear on this point. No coitus during the Period. Brothers and sisters, let us not exceed the limits set by God. The Sunnis are already predicting that if we challenge the Hadith, we will eventually challenge the Quran. Let us not justify that.
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I think that everything in this question revolves on the reason the Quran gives to keep off the wife during menses. It says that not doing so is harmful. Que cuestion should be where is the harm? Sister Latiffa is trying to find out and points to a possibility. I don't know what to say, but I think it is legitimate to try to find out in what way it is harmful. So we have had an article saying that blood is a vehicle for contagion, Latifah says it may be harmful for the woman on account of roughness...
I don't think we should immediately jump to conclusions as to anybody wanting to go against the Quran. We are practically discovering it now some of us for the second time. If we do it with due humility and trust in God, it should be a blessing, we are not barred from reflecting on it.Salaam
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I don't think that sister Latifah is trying to understand why God has forbidden coitus during menses. She distinctly states "I don't believe that God has forbidden it". Reflecting on the divine wisdom behind Quranic injunctions is permissible but certainly not challenging the injunctions.
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I think that the best to decide as to the meaning of her words is Latifah herself. You just took one sentence out of her whole message. From the whole message what I get is that she wants to be sure of what the aya really means. I personally have no interest in this going one way or the other, but on getting as faithful an understanding as possible of the aya for those interested. So, if you forgive me, brother, I will start studying your message because it may help get us started on that understanding.
Sister Latifah wondered about the exact formulation. Now you say coitus is forbidden. You may be right and that is the meaning, however that is not the formulation. What is said is
qul huwa 'adhan faa3tazilw-lnisaa'a fi-l mahidh wa la taqrabwhunna hatta yathurna...
then follows the rest of the aya.
As far as I can see what is said TO MEN is to keep off women. If we follow the idea pointed out by Latifah, does this imply that women can't approach men? Coitus is not mentionned. I think that in other ayas and addressing men sexual intercourse is alluded with verb L-M-S-A. I can't remember whether anywhere in the Quran it is expressed with a formulation similar to the one in this aya.
Then it goes on to say that after they are cleaned of the menses men can approach them as God ordered, and Allah loves those who are conscious of Him and those who purify themselves.
As far as I can ascertain than is -and I copy directly from the dictionnary har, injury, trouble, annoyance, grievance, wrong, offense, insult.
What I can see from this is that the reason to tell the men to keep off is that it is harmful, not that it is sinful.
I suppose that what we would like to know is what the harm is. The insistence on purifying or cleansing to me would indicate a matter of hygene. Hopefully some more interested people have a better analysis.
Salaam
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Peace All,
Although it is not mentioned in the Qur'an that menstruation nullifies the Salaat, but what about the "excretions in verse 443 that nullifies the ablution.
Doesn't this make it impossible for a menstruating woman to prepare for the Salaat?
Or perhaps the word "excretion" refers to something else than blood? -
The Qur'an says Approach not prayers ...... junuban
I have looked this junub in several dictionnaries and I didn't find any "secretion" or similar. All that oculd relate to the context we are looking for says "ritual impurity". So we are back to square one, unless we have a quranic description of ritual impurity where menses are mentioned or identified.
Salaam
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isn't junuban referring to that if you have gone to the toilet then get cleansed before praying?
It is unlikely that God would create women to menstruate every month and forbid them from praying and fasting because of something that is beyond their control .. then what? you have to make up for all these days you haven't prayed and fasted?
In another verse if a man had sex and couldn't find water then he can do tayammum (with dirt/sand) and still pray so ?????
someone told me that you're not allowed to pray if your hair is wet .. Oh but you can pray if you have cat hair on you. There are many rediculous rules such as women can't pray if they're wearing pants .. it must be a long skirt etc.
please comment
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Salaam peace4life
In another verse if a man had sex and couldn't find water then he can do tayammum (with dirt/sand) and still pray so ?????
Good point, although the address is not just to men. Women are included, too.
isn't junuban referring to that if you have gone to the toilet then get cleansed before praying?
"It is said" that junuban means had intercourse, although none of the classical dictionaries (well one of them does, but see below, please) states this meaning. This, I just found out, is one of the words that I suspect has been heavily manipulated by interpreters and dictionaries authors subsequently.
All the dictionaries explain, extensively, its meaning related to the root "janb" near, and the derivative verb jaanab alienated. Even "junub" is explained as "alien" as in verse 436 "..and the neighbour related to you/next to you and the alien/far neighbour", moreover the verbs "ijtanaba" and "jaanab" which is of the same root, is excessively used in the quraan as a negative command/request " don't approach". No other usage of this word, in the quraan, as "having intercourse" apart from in the two verses discussing salaat (17 words of this root).
The dictionaries are starnge in this account each one has just one or two lines on this, or a related, meaning, compared to between one and three pages for other meanings. Not only that, but these are the accounts of this word in the different dictionaries
Al Sahaah fil Lughah
. .
. .
The bolded words are "janaba" the second line is just five or six lines away from the first one, which could mean it is the same meaning of the entry "janabato stay with people as a guest", no mention of any intercourse.
Al Muheet
The only mention of this meaning in this line
.aljanaaba al-mani semen (without explaining how such a word is derived from this root, although we have a definite word for semen (mani) used in the quraan and is still used to this day in everdaylife). Why would a language create two words for one definite thing?
Further more, such an expalnation excludes women, since they have no semen.
Maqaayeesul Lugha
This, I think, is the most honest of all! Here is what it says
It's said that the "junub the one who has intercourse with his wife" is derived from this, because he is alienated from what others can do such as salaat, mosque and such! Note the "it's said", which is like saying "I can not prove that, I just heard it and have no opinion on it". The justification of the usage of the word for this meaning is also not convincing is being junub the only thing that keeps one from salaat or mosque?
Please comment!!
So, what's the real meaning of junub in this verse?
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Salam,
Here is one translation,
56 O ye who believe! when ye prepare for prayer, wash your faces, and your hands (and arms) to the elbows; Rub your heads (with water); and (wash) your feet to the ankles. If ye are in a state of ceremonial impurity, bathe your whole body. But if ye are ill, or on a journey, or one of you cometh from offices of nature, or ye have been in contact with women, and ye find no water, then take for yourselves clean sand or earth, and rub therewith your faces and hands, Allah doth not wish to place you in a difficulty, but to make you clean, and to complete his favour to you, that ye may be grateful.
cleanse if you've been to the toilet is already mentioned (ja'a ahadun minkum min algha-et)
sexual intercourse is already mentioned (laamastum annisaa)
if you were junuban thus means something different .. e.g. ejtanibooh in 590590 O ye who believe! Intoxicants and gambling, (dedication of) stones, and (divination by) arrows, are an abomination,- of Satan's handwork eschew such (abomination), that ye may prosper.
If you do not ejtanibooh (avoid alcohol or intoxicants) then you must be junub ... so get cleansed/ rid of it (ettahharoo)
So junuban must mean state of being intoxicated or drunk or whatever .. remember the reference again in the Quran where Allah says do not go to pray if you are drunk/off your head so that you know what you are saying.
so anyway, where do we forbid women from praying during menstruation?
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From these two last messages I reason that in fact junuban means roughly and simplifying "without having kept aside of those things from which you should have kept aside"and for which indeed you should purify before salat,
which effectively would rule out menstruation, since there is now way that one should keep aside of it. Would that make sense?Salaam
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very smart huruf D you can't junub (side from / avoid) menstruation.
It all makes sense now.Junub is when you haven't avoided what God told you to be junub from (alcohol , drugs , intoxicants ) etc. ejtanibooh sun
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I think that everything in this question revolves on the reason the Quran gives to keep off the wife during menses. It says that not doing so is harmful. Que cuestion should be where is the harm? Sister Latiffa is trying to find out and points to a possibility. I don't know what to say, but I think it is legitimate to try to find out in what way it is harmful. So we have had an article saying that blood is a vehicle for contagion, Latifah says it may be harmful for the woman on account of roughness...
I don't think we should immediately jump to conclusions as to anybody wanting to go against the Quran. We are practically discovering it now some of us for the second time. If we do it with due humility and trust in God, it should be a blessing, we are not barred from reflecting on it.Salaam
when you dont know a verse you are allowed to DISCUSS it HOWEVER at the same time you have rejected all the hadeeths because some have been fabricated why not discuss them and follow the ones that are valid?
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isn't junuban referring to that if you have gone to the toilet then get cleansed before praying?
It is unlikely that God would create women to menstruate every month and forbid them from praying and fasting because of something that is beyond their control .. then what? you have to make up for all these days you haven't prayed and fasted?
In another verse if a man had sex and couldn't find water then he can do tayammum (with dirt/sand) and still pray so ?????
someone told me that you're not allowed to pray if your hair is wet .. Oh but you can pray if you have cat hair on you. There are many rediculous rules such as women can't pray if they're wearing pants .. it must be a long skirt etc.
please comment
It is unlikely that Allah has put feelings in us and then forbids us to have sex before marriage
It is unlikely that Allah has made some people gay (well Allah hasnt made them gays but Allah can prevent it if He wants to) and then forbids them to act on it
It is unlikely that Allah has given us pubic hairs yet He wants us to shave it
It is unlikely that We have wet dreams and such and yet Allah wants us to clean ourselves before praying if we have wet dreams (or have sex)
It is unlikely that Allah has given us free will yet He wants us to obey HIM and will punish if we dont believe into HIM?
It is unlikely that Allah has given us so a choice of so many foods that can be eaten YET forbidden us to eat some (pork and carnivore animals)?
and on and on...You cannot say that these rules are ridiculous.. you are insulting your LORD, ALLAH.. you can rephrase as saying "please explain" or "WHY" etc but you cant call them ridiculous... is this where your progressiveness has taken you? Maybe its because you dont take hadeeths to be valid you are falling short on explanations and reasoning..
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when you dont know a verse you are allowed to DISCUSS it HOWEVER at the same time you have rejected all the hadeeths because some have been fabricated why not discuss them and follow the ones that are valid?
It's like taking good examples out of pornos. So you agree 'some are fabricated' but somehow the rest are okay?1 What kind of logic is that. If you were reading a book, and you KNEW just ONE thing was a proven lie (and we have more than one example), why would you believe anything else in that book? You would conclude successfully that the author is a liar and is not to be trusted.