How could Muslims be so deceived?
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Pardon my intrusion, but I don't think we should pass judgement on anybody's beliefs no matter what their beliefs are. Ever since I have been visiting this forum, I have felt that people here tend to, even if unknowingly so, insult other people who believe and follow anything in addition to the Book, by labeling them "traditionalists", "hadeethists" etc and/or ridiculing/mocking them and their beliefs. As the good Book says,
6108 - "And do not insult those who call on other than God, lest they insult God without knowledge. And We have similarly adorned for every nation their works; then to their Lord is their return and He will inform them of what they had done."
4911 - "O you who believe, let not a people ridicule other people, for they may be better than they. Nor shall any women ridicule other women, for they may be better than they. Nor shall you mock one another, or call each other names. Evil indeed is the reversion to wickedness after attaining faith. And anyone who does not repent, then these are the transgressors."
Instead, let's just say,
379 - "It is not for a human that God would give him the Scripture and the authority and the prophethood, then he would say to the people "Be servants to me rather than God!", rather "Be devotees for what you have been taught of the Scripture, and for what you studied."
Peace
Now thats seperating the men from the boys! Excellent post.
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What has happened to the Muslims of today (Traditionalists) that they consider those that practice Islam in the manner of the prophet and the early Muslims (ie. following Gods commandments as found in the Quran)as Kafir whose blood is licit?!! '(
I'd take the above sentiment with a grain of salt..
I believe it's a pretty general statement... We have to understand that it's a common repeating theme in history what you are describing.. and at the same time we need to understand that we do understand that it's a repeating theme in history and that is also a reason why such groups who claim to be progressive, quran alone etc... are too aware of this fact.. at least this is part of what I see here... just because you piss some other people off... it makes one group feel the "victim" and thus they think they are on the right track etc... even though this may not be the case at all...
so with that said.. I'd like to ask.. who do you consider
those that practice Islam in the manner of the prophet and the early Muslims (ie. following Gods commandments as found in the Quran)as Kafir whose blood is licit?!! '(
???
peace
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Peace all,
Some people who call themselves muslims are deceived because they do not trust/believe The God, and reject Him and His signs.
Let us see what The God's answer to this question is
26 As for those who reject, whether you warn them or do not warn them, they will not believe.
27 God has sealed upon their hearts and upon their ears, and over their eyes are covers. They will incur a great retribution.
28 And from the people are those who say "We believe in God and in the Last Day," but they are not believers.
29 They seek to deceive God and those who believe, but they only deceive themselves without noticing.
210 In their hearts is a disease, so God increases their disease, and they will have a painful retribution for what they have denied.Those who reject deceive themselves and they have a disease in their hearts.
3196 Do not be deceived by the success of those who disbelieved throughout the land.
They are deceived by the success of those who disbelieved throughout the land.
4142 The hypocrites seek to deceive God, while He is deceiving them; and if they stand to make the connection, they do so lazily, only to show the people; they do not remember God except very little.
They deceive themselves by being hypocrites.
6112 And as such, We have permitted the enemies of every prophet, human and Jinn devils, to inspire in each other with fancy words in order to deceive. Had your Lord willed, they would not have done it. You shall disregard them and their fabrications.
They are deceived by the fancy words of human and jinn devils.
6130 "O you tribes of Jinn and humans, did not messengers come to you from amongst you and relate to you My revelations, and warn you of the meeting of this Day?" They said "Yes, we bear witness upon ourselves;" and the worldly life deceived them, and they bore witness on themselves that they were rejecters.
3133 O mankind, you shall reverence your Lord, and fear a Day when a father cannot help his own child, nor can a child help his father. Certainly, God's promise is truth. Therefore, do not be deceived by this worldly life; and do not be deceived from God by arrogance.
4535 "This is because you took God's revelations in mockery, and you were deceived by the worldly life." So from this Day, they will never exit therefrom, nor will they be excused.
They are deceived by the worldly life and arrogance.
6720 Where is this army of yours to grant you victory without the Almighty? Indeed, the disbelievers are deceived.
Disbelievers are deceived.
People are too scared to trust Quran Alone.
Let us see if the above UNEVIDENCED red part of the statement is supported by The God's message
849 The hypocrites and those who have a disease in their hearts said "These people have been deceived by their system." But whoever puts his trust in God, then God is Noble, Wise.
862 And if they wish to deceive you, then God is sufficient for you. He is the One who supported you with His victory and with the believers.The message is God alone. It does not say "then Qur'aan is sufficient for you". His signs are everywhere, not just in the Qur'aan. The truth will be made clear by the signs within and in the horizons
4153 We will show them Our signs in the horizons, and within themselves, until it becomes clear to them that this is the truth. Is it not enough that your Lord is witness over all things?
9129 If they turn away, then say "God is enough for me, there is no god but He, in Him I put my trust and He is the Lord of the great throne."
3936 Is God not enough for His servant? And they frighten you with others beside Him. And whomever God sends astray, then for him there will be no guide.
770 They said "Have you come to us to serve God alone and abandon what our fathers had served? Bring us what you promise if you are of the truthful ones!"
3945 And when God Alone is mentioned, the hearts of those who do not believe in the Hereafter are filled with aversion; and when others are mentioned beside Him, they rejoice!
4012 This is because when God Alone was mentioned, you rejected, but when partners were associated with Him, you believed. Therefore, the judgment is for God, the Most High, the Great.
4084 So when they saw Our might, they said "We believe in God Alone, and we reject all the partners we used to set up!"
1746 And we place shields over their hearts, that they should not understand it, and a deafness in their ears. And if you mention your Lord alone in the Qur'an, they run away turning their backs in aversion.
The message is clear. Serve God alone, and trust Him, and you will not be deceived.
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I'd take the above sentiment with a grain of salt..
I believe it's a pretty general statement... We have to understand that it's a common repeating theme in history what you are describing.. and at the same time we need to understand that we do understand that it's a repeating theme in history and that is also a reason why such groups who claim to be progressive, quran alone etc... are too aware of this fact.. at least this is part of what I see here... just because you piss some other people off... it makes one group feel the "victim" and thus they think they are on the right track etc... even though this may not be the case at all...
so with that said.. I'd like to ask.. who do you consider
???
peace
Well obviously those of us that follow the Quran only and not hadith.
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Peace G. Omar,
Well obviously those of us that follow the Quran only and not hadith.
Just making sure. Thanks.
What has happened to the Muslims of today (Traditionalists) that they consider those that practice Islam in the manner of the prophet and the early Muslims (ie. following Gods commandments as found in the Quran)as Kafir whose blood is licit?!! '(
What makes you believe that quranists are following Islam in the manner of the prophet? Just because the quranists claim to? Well, so do sunnis, shias, etc etc. Each of them merely rejoices in that which is with itself. Plus, just because one plays the "victim" does not necessarily mean that the victim is always right, or in this case, on the right path. We know that during the time of the prophet Muhammad, him and his followers were caused much pain and suffering, and now every so called muslim sect believes they are just like that because they suffer at the hands of someone. Perhaps in the world view this may be true to a point, however the issue extends to within the Deen, as we see in this thread. Just because this is what had happened to the prophet Muhammad and his followers the idea of suffering is glorified to be on the right path.
What this helps in doing, of course, is give each sect a sense of identity of its own, but it says little about whether or not they are actually on the right path. Perhaps it only helps to seperate instead of Unite.
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Greetings M_Mehdi,
Hmm..... hmm ....so what criteria is there to let us know who is on the right path??? Additionally, let's consider what would happen if we didn't have either the Qur'an or the hadith.....how would we (humanity) ever find the way? ?
! Look at the open BOOK of creation.
Therein we all can find the answers....If it 'jives' with the natural laws...the LAWS that GOD has set into place -- without a doubt, then you can be assured that it is the TRUTH. yes
If it doesn't.....buyer beware!!! &
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Peace,
I doubt alot that sufferings can make a people go forward.
I pity people who just moan for nothing, God gave us all a free will and it's every single human's right to do something for yourself or for others as well.
Quran and other religious scriptures have give us directions and clues of how to become a happy nation.
But the message has certainly not reach all or it has been taken wrong because why then after so long time since the first humans we still suffer and can't win!?
It must be the case that people are blind and stubborn, they think too much in physical terms, but even if we have a body to take care about we must also keep up our minds and heal our soul and uphold a balance here.
The traditionals have been stuck in the practical living and therefore can't reach the upper worlds and it's many pleasures. So if they hear about a person like me they just shake their head because they think I'm stupid and lost when in matter of fact they are afraid to release themselves from this earthly bond and can't think of anything than to face the black stone in Makka.
I'm not pointing finger at anyone, just make things clear of what i face here and now around me.
In my opinion, things will not change or become better until people will practise what they truly want in their lives. Ask yourself the questions " what makes you really happy"? and "What do you want in your life"?
And besides it's not only muslims who are deceived, all are deceived who cannot grasp the real message from God. The message are really easy and clear but people have make it difficult to grasp so it's only we who have dig deeper who have found what we was looking for.
Peace
Maria -
Greetings Maria,
Gee, I know what you mean... I have sunnis close to me who have accused me of faking being a 'muslim' for all the years that I was practicing sunnism. They think I've just gone backward... their mind cannot grasp that my understanding has grown and improved. I told them that their assumption was wrong and that if they really wanted to understand how I think now, that we coudl discuss the issues in depth. They turned me down - refused my offer. ....Their fear and ignorance at this time for them is bliss. hypno
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Peace ILisa Maria, all...
Hmm..... hmm ....so what criteria is there to let us know who is on the right path??? Additionally, let's consider what would happen if we didn't have either the Qur'an or the hadith.....how would we (humanity) ever find the way? ?
I think Jean Rousseau put it well when he mentioned that we humans have learned our ethics and morality from our capacity for empathy.
But the message has certainly not reach all or it has been taken wrong because why then after so long time since the first humans we still suffer and can't win!?
Maria, nice post! Maybe we can look at it as it has reached.. and we can understand that it reaches... in ways that at times we may not agree with or think it aught to be understood... so we think it hasn't reached or it has been taken wrong. It comes back to our own forms of subject reality.. instead of the objective... so then it becomes a fight for instating realities.. but the unfortunate part is it merely seems to only become a form of pushing our own subjective realities onto others... so we call ourselves by our club names.. sunni.. shia.. quran alone.. progressive... etc. etc... etc... while we do this.. we loose sight of God... The Only Reality... as one might say...
God does not need us just as Reality does not need us to observe it.
peace
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Greetings M_Mehdi,
I think Jean Rousseau put it well when he mentioned that we humans have learned our ethics and morality from our capacity for empathy.
Empathy certainly plays a part, but have to disagree with you. It appears that you've overlooked my point on the need to look at, to read, and to observe the book of creation -- which, by the way, God has told to us to do in the Qur'an.
You will never get at the right answers via empathy alone -- that's for certain. Just think of all the parents who spoil their kids rotten by having too much empathy.
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Greetings Maria,
Gee, I know what you mean... I have sunnis close to me who have accused me of ****ing being a 'muslim' for all the years that I was practicing sunnism. They think I've just gone backward... their mind cannot grasp that my understanding has grown and improved. I told them that their assumption was wrong and that if they really wanted to understand how I think now, that we coudl discuss the issues in depth. They turned me down - refused my offer. ....Their fear and ignorance at this time for them is bliss. hypno
Peace Lisa,
I really can imagine how you feel of being the only one in your closest surroundings having different views of islam and how to be a muslim.
Therefore I'm so happy that I struggle to get my divorce so I could start live and practise that life I want to live. But this path has not been easy but after the pain it slowly has come enlightments and happiness into my life again because I have found more clues about the truths from God(The higher power).I'm not surprised that they turned you down, they are afraid of changes, they are comfortable and happy how they live and practise their religion.
Well I hope more people will realize what the real meanings are and that we must back to the inner worlds. It's not an coincident that yoga, meditations etc has spread and become popular in different kind of countries throughout the world, it's the voice of the time who has call on us and beg us to wake up and face the reality and listen to our needs from inside.
Many so called muslims think they can heal themselves by reading Quran and face Makka and bow down 5 times a day on a rug. But this is not healing, it not take you anywhere. Real healings you get when you ask yourself , how you feel today! And you remind yourself of how beautiful you are and that you love yourself. You begin with yourself and then you can love your fellow brothers and sisters as a result of yourself love.
The reasons why it exists so much hate and violence is that people use too much energy to face those awful things, if they instead could break this ugly trend and practise love and kindness.
I have stop reading the newspaper because it's only filled with bad news and I don't want to be filled with that crap.
Now finally I have realized what Jesus really did, he spread the love and kindness the compassionments and it effected people and they become well and happy again.
So the goal is to spread as much love and kindness you can, everything good will return to you in a stronger dose so please start smiling and be kind and helpful where ever you go.
All the prophets and philosophers have been knowing this, they have been practising the "Law of Attraction" and therefore they could be so big and famous for their times. The message has been there all the times in all the great readings, but only a few people have been using it.
In other words, the sixth sense have woke up in us or our third eye
Peace
Maria -
Peace ILisa Maria, all...
I think Jean Rousseau put it well when he mentioned that we humans have learned our ethics and morality from our capacity for empathy.
Maria, nice post! Maybe we can look at it as it has reached.. and we can understand that it reaches... in ways that at times we may not agree with or think it aught to be understood... so we think it hasn't reached or it has been taken wrong. It comes back to our own forms of subject reality.. instead of the objective... so then it becomes a fight for instating realities.. but the unfortunate part is it merely seems to only become a form of pushing our own subjective realities onto others... so we call ourselves by our club names.. sunni.. shia.. quran alone.. progressive... etc. etc... etc... while we do this.. we loose sight of God... The Only Reality... as one might say...
God does not need us just as Reality does not need us to observe it.
Peace Mehdi,
Yes, all this titles sunni, shia etc only drive people more astray from the truth. And exactly God the higher power does'nt need anything from us, but it's we who need the feedback of our thoughts and beggings or else we are lost and left to die here on earth. There is a great deal of being thankful for who knows when this power will not support us anymore.
A good explanation can be that the higher power is like a genie in a bottle, it gives you what you ask for, so ask for things that is important and start to visualize that you already having it in your belongings.
I hope you enjoy the ride!?, I do, it's so exiting group
Peace Maria
peace
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Greetings Maria,
Thanks for the sweet words. So few people really understand what we're going through....
Well I hope more people will realize what the real meanings are and that we must back to the inner worlds
Many so called muslims think they can heal themselves by reading Quran and face Makka and bow down 5 times a day on a rug. But this is not healing, it not take you anywhere. Real healings you get when you ask yourself , how you feel today! And you remind yourself of how beautiful you are and that you love yourself. You begin with yourself and then you can love your fellow brothers and sisters as a result of yourself love.The reasons why it exists so much hate and violence is that people use too much energy to face those awful things, if they instead could break this ugly trend and practise love and kindness.
I'm with you, that's for sure!!
All the prophets and philosophers have been knowing this, they have been practising the "Law of Attraction"
Cool. What an interesting observation. I hadn't thought of it that way before, but I think you could be right!
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Peace,
Thanks ILisa for bringing this to attention...
Many so called muslims think they can heal themselves by reading Quran and face Makka and bow down 5 times a day on a rug. But this is not healing, it not take you anywhere. Real healings you get when you ask yourself , how you feel today! And you remind yourself of how beautiful you are and that you love yourself. You begin with yourself and then you can love your fellow brothers and sisters as a result of yourself love.
There is healing in reading Quran and face Makka and bow down 5times a day etc... for some.. and for others perhaps a different ritual.. or no ritual at all... True unconditional love is bigger than ourselves and our subjective beliefs.. Love is not in minimizing the experience of another which we do not fully understand or feel does not work for us.. well if Love is what we're talking about here. Love at times can be most diffcult and esp when we want to share that Love with others... so we minimize them to help them... but soon we realize that Love is a fragile state... peace
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Greetings M_Mehdi,
Thanks ILisa for bringing this to attention...
There is healing in reading Quran
Boy, I sure wouldn't go against the fact that there is healing in the Qur'an, but does it come by mindlessly reading the Qur'an? That I'm not sure of -- and that is what the majority of muslims I have known have the habit of doing -- either out of trying to read the Qur'an in a week or less, or reading the Qur'an in Arabic when they don't understand Arabic. This is what I took Maria to be speaking about. Not whether healing comes from the Qur'an....that's a whole other topic.....
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Peace Mehdi and Lisa,
Yes, I was talking about healing when you understand the healing in itself. Quran is of course a healing if and when you understand its meaning.
Many years ago when i still practise sunnism, I wasn't satisfied, I couldn't heal myself and I didn't understood why, I was doing everything perfect, i was nearly an fanatic follower of sunnism. So I started to ask God, what i was doing wrong and I asked to be guided on the right path.
My beggings was heard and here I am today, a follower of only one powerful force and who keep asking questions and wish for things that I need.
Maria
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Peace Maria n ILisa,
I understand what you mean. I know in Mexico they still give many sermons at the churches in Latin. Most of the people who attend those churches cannot understand the sermons. It seems difficult to understand for some how these people can have so much faith without understanding a word from the sermons etc.. and many don't even read.. let alone read the Bible... However, there is an immense amount of faith that many have there. So many live good and righteous lives based on their internal faith.
peace peace