Freeminds article on polygyny
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As Salaamu Alaikum all,
This article on freeminds on polygyny is an insult to Al Quran for its blatant errors and mistranslations. It should either be redone or removed from the site. Just my two cents.
Polygamy
One of the most wide spread myths that has been associated with God's religion over the centuries is the issue of "Polygamy". It is customary for people when they think of Islam, or even when they embrace Islam, that they automatically have a license to marry more than one wife (upto a maximum of 4).
Men tend to fantasize that this is due to the high sexual libido that God has given them and that it is part of their Homo-Sapien right of male domination.
Even women in the Islamic world have come to accept the idea of Polygamy as being ordained by God and therefore not open for debate or questioning. The woman in Islamic society may not like the idea of sharing her husband with other women, but it is a fact of life she has been taught to accept and respect.
Did the Lord of the Universe realize that Muslim men were hormone driven animals that needed the sexual satisfaction of more than one mate? Or is it us who as usual interpret God's revelations with our desires rather than our brains?.
Where in the Quran can we find this command that justifies Polygamy?
"You shall hand over to the ORPHANS* their rightful properties. Do not substitute the bad for the good, and do not consume their properties by combining them with yours. This would be a gross injustice. If you fear that you will not be equitable towards the ORPHANS*, then you may marry those who are agreeable to you of the women two, and three, and four. If you fear lest you become unfair, then you shall be content with only one, or with what you already have. Additionally, you are thus more likely to avoid financial hardship." (4/2-3)
"They consult you concerning women say, "GOD enlightens you regarding them, as recited for you in the scripture. The mothers of ORPHANS* that you wish to marry but do not give them their due dowries, you shall be just. The rights of young boys must also be protected. You shall treat the orphans equitably. Whatever good you do, GOD is fully aware thereof." (4/127)
- Orphans in Arabic (Yatama) is used for a child who has lost his father. A child who has lost his mother is not considered an Orphan in Arabic.
Any reader of the above verse does not have to be a genius to understand that Polygamy is CONDITIONAL that a person wants to be equitable towards the ORPHANS!
But WHO are these ORPHANS that we are responsible for yet it is likely that we will not treat them favorably?.
Again, we do not have to look beyond the tip of our noses for the answer
"Do not give those who are immature the money which God has ENTRUSTED you with. You shall provide for them from it and cloth them, and say to them what is just. You shall test the orphans when they reach puberty. As soon as you find them mature enough, GIVE THEM THEIR PROPERTY..." (4/5-6)
You must be the GUARDIAN to these Orphans and caretaker to their inheritance BEFORE even considering Polygamy. It is not just for a man to just pick children off the street and claim that he will marry their mother. The man must be the Guardian to the children appointed by their deceased father or because they (the Orphans) are from his blood.
After laying out the rules in which Polygamy is allowed, we are also dealt with more restrictions in the Quran
"You can NEVER be equitable in dealing with more than one wife, no matter how hard you try. Therefore, do not be so biased as to leave one of them hanging. If you correct this situation and maintain righteousness, GOD is Forgiver, Most Merciful." (4/129)
So, as we have it DETAILED in God's Book
- Orphans placed in our guardianship are to be treated fairly.
- If we fear biased-ness or unfairness in treatment, we MAY marry their mother.
- We MUST pay their mother her dowry as in the case of a normal marriage.
- We MUST NOT be biased in our dealings with either wife.
Under these circumstances it becomes very clear how God's perfect system will be a shield for children who have lost their fathers and need protection in this world, rather than a license for sexual fantasies as most are led to believe.
May the Lord grant us His mercy for all the wrong we have done.
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As Salaamu Alaika Samia,
How come Im not at all surprised that you are the first one to respond to this thread? hmm
How about you start with the part in RED!
Salaam IQO
Can you please highlight what you find as an insult to the qur'aan, blatant errors and mistranslations?
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Polygamy
One of the most wide spread myths that has been associated with God's religion over the centuries is the issue of "Polygamy". It is customary for people when they think of Islam, or even when they embrace Islam, that they automatically have a license to marry more than one wife (upto a maximum of 4).
Men tend to fantasize that this is due to the high sexual libido that God has given them and that it is part of their Homo-Sapien right of male domination.
Even women in the Islamic world have come to accept the idea of Polygamy as being ordained by God and therefore not open for debate or questioning. The woman in Islamic society may not like the idea of sharing her husband with other women, but it is a fact of life she has been taught to accept and respect.
Did the Lord of the Universe realize that Muslim men were hormone driven animals that needed the sexual satisfaction of more than one mate? Or is it us who as usual interpret God's revelations with our desires rather than our brains?.
Where in the Quran can we find this command that justifies Polygamy?
"You shall hand over to the ORPHANS* their rightful properties. Do not substitute the bad for the good, and do not consume their properties by combining them with yours. This would be a gross injustice. If you fear that you will not be equitable towards the ORPHANS*, then you may marry those who are agreeable to you of the women two, and three, and four. If you fear lest you become unfair, then you shall be content with only one, or with what you already have. Additionally, you are thus more likely to avoid financial hardship." (4/2-3)
"They consult you concerning women say, "GOD enlightens you regarding them, as recited for you in the scripture. The mothers of ORPHANS* that you wish to marry but do not give them their due dowries, you shall be just. The rights of young boys must also be protected. You shall treat the orphans equitably. Whatever good you do, GOD is fully aware thereof." (4/127)
- Orphans in Arabic (Yatama) is used for a child who has lost his father. A child who has lost his mother is not considered an Orphan in Arabic.
Any reader of the above verse does not have to be a genius to understand that Polygamy is CONDITIONAL that a person wants to be equitable towards the ORPHANS!
But WHO are these ORPHANS that we are responsible for yet it is likely that we will not treat them favorably?.
Again, we do not have to look beyond the tip of our noses for the answer
"Do not give those who are immature the money which God has ENTRUSTED you with. You shall provide for them from it and cloth them, and say to them what is just. You shall test the orphans when they reach puberty. As soon as you find them mature enough, GIVE THEM THEIR PROPERTY..." (4/5-6)
You must be the GUARDIAN to these Orphans and caretaker to their inheritance BEFORE even considering Polygamy. It is not just for a man to just pick children off the street and claim that he will marry their mother. The man must be the Guardian to the children appointed by their deceased father or because they (the Orphans) are from his blood.
After laying out the rules in which Polygamy is allowed, we are also dealt with more restrictions in the Quran
"You can NEVER be equitable in dealing with more than one wife, no matter how hard you try. Therefore, do not be so biased as to leave one of them hanging. If you correct this situation and maintain righteousness, GOD is Forgiver, Most Merciful." (4/129)
So, as we have it DETAILED in God's Book
- Orphans placed in our guardianship are to be treated fairly.
- If we fear biased-ness or unfairness in treatment, we MAY marry their mother.
- We MUST pay their mother her dowry as in the case of a normal marriage.
- We MUST NOT be biased in our dealings with either wife.
Under these circumstances it becomes very clear how God's perfect system will be a shield for children who have lost their fathers and need protection in this world, rather than a license for sexual fantasies as most are led to believe.
May the Lord grant us His mercy for all the wrong we have done.
Beautiful article, it certainly makes sense and according to the true essence of The Message. Thanks for sharing.
Peace.
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As Salaamu Alaikum all,
This article on freeminds on polygyny is an insult to Al Quran for its blatant errors and mistranslations. It should either be redone or removed from the site. Just my two cents.
Polygamy
To get started, the author should be knowledgable enough to TITLE the article correctly!
As-Salaamu Alaika jankren,
po?lyg?a?my(p-lg-m)
n.- The condition or practice of having more than one spouse at one time. Also called plural marriage.
po?lyg?y?ny(p-lj-n)
n.- The condition or practice of having more than one wife at one time.
pol?y?an?dry(pl-ndr)
n.- The condition or practice of having more than one husband at one time.
I believe that RasulHamsa answered the rest already.
As-Salaamu Alaikum, peace
One of the most wide spread myths that has been associated with God's religion over the centuries is the issue of "Polygamy". It is customary for people when they think of Islam, or even when they embrace Islam, that they automatically have a license to marry more than one wife (upto a maximum of 4).
Why is customary for "people"? What people? "Muslims"? Or are you meaning those people that try to degrade Islam because of polygyny so that this is really an "appologetic" article?
When this author speaks of "even when they embrace Islam", does he really believe that people embrace Islam because afterwards "they automatically have a liscense to marry more than one wife (up to a maximum of 4)? This is an insult to those "MEN" who embrace Islam because of submitting to Allah. Does the author think that "women" also embrace Islam because "they must want men who will want multiple wives"? Or does the author of this dubious work think that women embrace Islam for worshipping Allah and men embrace Islam for sexual gratification of marrying more than one wife?
I have known many hundreds of men that embraced Islam as a convert and were not born into "Islamic" households. NEVER, and I MEAN NEVER, have I ever heard one of them say that they even consider polygyny as a reason to embrace Islam. Most of them were either already married, in which case since their spouse was not muslim they would never even consider polygyny because of the fear of losing their spouse; or most of them were so concerned with all the wrong that they had been doing and were so consummed with trying to repent to Allah that they were not even concerned with getting 1 wife, let alone considering more than one. Most new converts that I have seen, and that has been in the hundreds if not thousands, are bombarded with people trying to get them to marry this sister and that sister, yet most of them wait a good while to try to get themselves straight first before even considering marriage.
FOR THIS AUTHOR TO SUGGEST THAT THEY MAY ENTER ISLAM BECAUSE IT GIVES THEM A LISCENSE TO MARRY MORE THAN ONE WOMAN IS AN INSULT TO THEIR SINCERITY FOR JOINING THE DEEN OF AL ISLAM TO SERVE ALLAH!
Men tend to fantasize that this is due to the high sexual libido that God has given them and that it is part of their Homo-Sapien right of male domination.
So these converts are fantasizing about having sex with multiple wives because of their high sexual libido that is part of their Homoo-Sapien right of male domination? This author is scandalous in their accusations and assumptions, no wonder their identity is not given.
Many converts may have already have multiple women in their past before accepting Al Islam. It is not a concellation prize to be told that you can marry more than one upon accepting Al Islam. It is MUCH MUCH MUCH easier for a non muslim male to have multiple sex partners with no strings attached and no obligations to support those women; than any man marrying multiple wives in Al Islam and having to PROVIDE AND MAINTAIN them. If the brother is accepting Al Islam because of serving Allah, how does the obligation to take care of so many wives seem more attractive? If he is accepting Al Islam just because he can "MARRY" more than one, in what country is it legal for him to do so without difficulty? Wouldn't it be MUCH MUCH easier for him to just continue to have multiple girlfriends, or a wife with one or more mistresses; without the obligation to PROVIDE and MAINTAIN them? Especially since they would then have only the rights that he would give them, and not any rights from Allah given in Al Quran?
This statement is a travesty and goes to show the preconcieved and biased apologetic mindset that this author has approached this subject matter from Al Quran with.
Even women in the Islamic world have come to accept the idea of Polygamy as being ordained by God and therefore not open for debate or questioning. The woman in Islamic society may not like the idea of sharing her husband with other women, but it is a fact of life she has been taught to accept and respect.
Only those who would so easily misinterpret or mistranslate Al Quran not accept the idea of polygyny as being ordained by Allah and therefore not open for debate or questioning of its permissiveness. To be taught to accept and respect what Allah has ordained is what should be done to all human beings when they are young. I'm sure many don't like to pray and give charity, but they should be taught to like such things from as early an age as possible if we want a peaceful and harmonious society.
Did the Lord of the Universe realize that Muslim men were hormone driven animals that needed the sexual satisfaction of more than one mate? Or is it us who as usual interpret God's revelations with our desires rather than our brains?.
This is an insult to the male species to assume that any man who would marry more than one woman is a hormone driven animal that needs sexual satisfaction of more than one mate. Did a woman, promiscous man or homosexual write this statement? Who is the author again?
Again, if men are only concerned with sex, there is NO BENEFIT to marrying more than one wife when it is much much easier to just have multiple girlfriends, or one wife and as many mistresses as one can handle.
A man who marries into polygyny according to the laws of Al Quran is obligated to much responsibility and would dare not marry more than one woman strictly for sexual purposes if they fear Allah. But of course any man who MARRIES a woman will EXPECT and ENJOY to have sex with his new spouse; that is how marriage is consumated. Why is a man who marries one woman and expects and enjoys to have sex with his one wife supposedly more pious to this author than a man who has the same feelings for more than one wife? Sounds like clear bias and lack of reason or logic to me.
Where in the Quran can we find this command that justifies Polygamy?
"You shall hand over to the ORPHANS* their rightful properties. Do not substitute the bad for the good, and do not consume their properties by combining them with yours. This would be a gross injustice. If you fear that you will not be equitable towards the ORPHANS*, then you may marry those who are agreeable to you of the women two, and three, and four. If you fear lest you become unfair, then you shall be content with only one, or with what you already have. Additionally, you are thus more likely to avoid financial hardship." (4/2-3)
As-Salaamu Alaika RasulHamsa,
There is only ONE Quranic condition for polygyny. That is that if a man fears that he will not be just to them, (notice that it is only the one making the decision to marry more than one, i.e. the man), then he should obey Allah and only marry one or "what his right hand possesses". Any other conditions for it are only from those who abhor what Allah has ordered and made halaal because of their ideas about it based on society, what they have heard, what they fear, what they dislike, or what they have experienced in their own lives; and they therefore seek to negate it.
As-Salaamu Alaikum, peace
As-Salaamu Alaika RasulHamsa,
Let's look at the arabic and one translation of the entire beginning of the ayaat in question
{1}
O mankind! reverence your Guardian-Lord, who created you from a single person, created, of like nature, His mate, and from them twain scattered (like seeds) countless men and women;- reverence Allah, through whom ye demand your mutual (rights), and (reverence) the wombs (That bore you) for Allah ever watches over you.
All of mankind is being addressed here. Not just "muslim" or "mu'mins". The very concept of marriage is begun by the introduction of one soul and it's mate, and from them coming others.
{2}
To orphans restore their property (When they reach their age), nor substitute (your) worthless things for (their) good ones; and devour not their substance (by mixing it up) with your own. For this is indeed a great sin.
This ayat discusses giving over the charge of their property to those who were orphans (when they reach their age). The latter part in parenthesis is based off the further clarification of this order in ayat six, which is clear about when to give the charge over their property back to them. One key here in dealing with polygyny, is that it is talking about the time when the "orphans" have reached "marriageable age". If this isn't understood or paid attention to, and these orphans referred to are only seen as "children" and not as reaching the marriage age, then the rest will be misinterpretted. If this isn't clear, one should skip to and read ayat 6 and then return here.
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If ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly with the orphans, Marry women of your choice, Two or three or four; but if ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one, or (a captive) that your right hands possess, that will be more suitable, to prevent you from doing injustice.
The first condition here is to those who have the guardianship over the orphan and their property. Clearly continuing from the previous ayat, fearing that you will not deal justly with the orphans is talking about when they have attained marriageable age and it is time to restore their property to them; therefore if the warning issued about properly restoring their property is something you fear doing correctly, another command is given.
What is the correlation to giving their property back when they attain the age of marriage and the command to marry two and three and four? All reason and logic clearly make this correlation to be speaking to the "men" that could then marry an orphan girl that has now reached marriageable age. If he fears that by marrying her he may transgress the bounds of restoring her property properly as Allah has instructed, then he should marry what is good to him from the women, two and three and four; women that would not obviously included the ones being discussed as a special group. Mothers of orphans is not a correct translation and only fits the needs of those who dislike what Allah has ordered. Also you can use marry or marry off, as many prefer to do in this ayat, and it doesn't change the clarity of what is being said; nor does using two or twos, etc. What is clear, is that "wa" after two and three, means "and, by or plus (as can be understood from arabic when using numbers)", and not "or". "Or" is "aw" as is also used in this same ayat to clearly distinguish between the two terms.
Here, those who would otherwise marry also an orphan girl that has not become marriagable age, are clearly commanded to marry TWO and THREE and FOUR. Notice this is a command, and it starts with TWO, not ONE. One is only given as an option to the conditional phrase of "if you fear you will not be just with them". So one is the exception to the command for men who fear they can cause injustice. The natural and normal marriage command in Al Quran is to marry two and three and four. I wont go into every detail here, because I am sure we will have to discuss it further.
{4}
And give the women (on marriage) their dower as a free gift; but if they, of their own good pleasure, remit any part of it to you, Take it and enjoy it with right good cheer.
This ayat is self explanatory, but if some want to make issues stemming from it as we have seen in the past, we can discuss it as well.
{5}
To those weak of understanding Make not over your property, which Allah hath made a means of support for you, but feed and clothe them therewith, and speak to them words of kindness and justice.
This ayat is further clarification that those who are not mentally mature enough, that they should not be in charge of the wealth of a person's property, but that they should be cared for and taken care of.
{6}
Make trial of orphans until they reach the age of marriage; if then ye find sound judgment in them, release their property to them; but consume it not wastefully, nor in haste against their growing up. If the guardian is well-off, Let him claim no remuneration, but if he is poor, let him have for himself what is just and reasonable. When ye release their property to them, take witnesses in their presence But all-sufficient is Allah in taking account.
This ayat is critical for understanding that the orphans talked about in ayat 2 are not children anymore, but are being spoken of as their previous condition of being orphan children, but now reaching the age of maturity in marriage and having sound judgement. Further instructions and clarifications of ayat 2 are specified here clearly.
I hope this sheds some light on the issue with you or anyone who reads it, insha Allah.
As-Salaamu Alaikum, peace
"They consult you concerning women say, "GOD enlightens you regarding them, as recited for you in the scripture. The mothers of ORPHANS* that you wish to marry but do not give them their due dowries, you shall be just. The rights of young boys must also be protected. You shall treat the orphans equitably. Whatever good you do, GOD is fully aware thereof." (4/127)
"Mothers of Orphans" is an incorrect translation on purpose to distort the meaning of the ayaat to suit the authors pre-judgments about the issue!
Transliteration Wayastaftoonaka fee alnnisa-i quli Allahu yufteekum feehinna wama yutla AAalaykum fee alkitabi fee yatama alnnisa-i allatee la tu/toonahunna ma kutiba lahunna watarghaboona an tankihoohunna waalmustadAAafeena mina alwildani waan taqoomoo lilyatama bialqisti wama tafAAaloo min khayrin fa-inna Allaha kana bihi AAaleeman
Literal And they ask for your opinion/clarification in the women, say "God decreed/clarifies in them (F), and what is read/recited on you in The Book in the women orphans/minors that lose their father, those who (F) you did not give them (F) what was written/dictated to them (F), and you desire that you marry them (F), and the weakened from the children/new borns, and that you take care of to the orphans/minors that61lose their father with the just/equitable; and what you make/do from goodness, so that God was/is with it knowledgeable."
Free-Minds And they seek a ruling regarding the women, Say "God will give you a ruling regarding them and what is being recited to you in the Scripture regarding the orphan's mothers whom you wish to marry, but have not given them what was decreed for them; as well as the weak from the children That you stand for the orphans in equality." Whatever good you do, then God is aware of it.
Rashad Khalifa They consult you concerning women say, "GOD enlightens you regarding them, as recited for you in the scripture. You shall restore the rights of orphaned girls whom you cheat out of their due dowries when you wish to marry them you shall not take advantage of them. The rights of orphaned boys must also be protected as well. You shall treat the orphans equitably. Whatever good you do, GOD is fully aware thereof."
Yusuf Ali They ask thy instruction concerning the women say Allah doth instruct you about them And (remember) what hath been rehearsed unto you in the Book, concerning the orphans of women to whom ye give not the portions prescribed, and yet whom ye desire to marry, as also concerning the children who are weak and oppressed that ye stand firm for justice to orphans. There is not a good deed which ye do, but Allah is well-acquainted therewith.Quote from Samia on June 10, 2007, 023838 AM
- Yataamaa alnisaa' Orphans of mothers orphans whose mother/s are alive. I know the word "mother" per se is not there,. But if it is " mother of orphans " the subject will be the "mother" of the orphan, not the the orphans themselves. The construction of the kind "orphans' mother" where you start the phrase with the the main subject and make it "mudaaf ilaihi" at the same time does not exist in Arabic, such as " yataamaa alummahaat" , because this means those who are orphaned from the side of the mother. The only expression left to mention the mothers of the orphans without making the mother the subject of the verse is what God chose yataamaa al nisaa'.
Some people think that it means "women orphans", and I believe you are one of them. This is wrong, because yataamaa is a masculine plural and cannot be used as an adjective for females. It should be "yateemaat al- nisaa'", or "alnisaa' alyateemaat", or simply "alyateemaat" as opposed to "alyataamaa"
As Salaamu Alaika Samia,
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Seriously Samia..now you want me to accept al nisaa' as "mothers"? How many definitions of "nisaa'" do you make to fit all of the definitions that you desire in Al Quran? You reject the meaning of nisaa' as "women" in all the ayaat that it is not convenient for your understandings, but then you change it to mean mother or one that is responsible or whatever, in order to suit your understandings. If, as you admit to, "mother" is not in the verse, why are you trying to make it fit to suit your own interpretation? I don't think that is good scholarship. nope
This ayat wasn't part of the discussion, but any ayat that is revelant is suitable to bring to the discussion to support a point as the Quran can elaborate on a concept in other ayaat that are not directly connected. Now let me see if I understand you correctly, if I am wrong, then please correct me.
By you saying "The only expression left to mention the mothers of the orphans without making the mother the subject of the verse is what God chose yataamaa al nisaa'.", you are saying that "the mothers" are not the subject of the sentence and the "yataamaa" are.....correct? And you are also said "This is wrong, because yataamaa is a masculine plural and cannot be used as an adjective for females." So if this is correct, please explain your understanding of the feminine use here
Transliteration Wayastaftoonaka fee alnnisa-i quli Allahu yufteekum feehinna wama yutla AAalaykum fee alkitabi fee yatama alnnisa-i allatee la tu/toonahunna ma kutiba lahunna watarghaboona an tankihoohunna waalmustadAAafeena mina alwildani waan taqoomoo lilyatama bialqisti wama tafAAaloo min khayrin fa-inna Allaha kana bihi AAaleeman
Literal And they ask for your opinion/clarification in the women, say "God decreed/clarifies in them (F), and what is read/recited on you in The Book in the women orphans/minors that lose their father, those who (F) you did not give them (F) what was written/dictated to them (F), and you desire that you marry them (F), and the weakened from the children/new borns, and that you take care of to the orphans/minors that61lose their father with the just/equitable; and what you make/do from goodness, so that God was/is with it knowledgeable."Why are the subject as you say "yataamaa" referred to as feminine in the rest of the ayaat? hmm
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As-Salaamu Alaikum, peace
- Orphans in Arabic (Yatama) is used for a child who has lost his father. A child who has lost his mother is not considered an Orphan in Arabic.
Prove to me from Al Quran that it only means to lose the father and not the mother or both parents; not from arab (arabic) custom/tradition!
Wa Salaam Samia
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You and others continue to accept this age old definition of an orphan being one who can still have their mother alive based on classical or popular arabic understanding, which is a cultural understanding. But yet you continue to reject definitions of similar report that say things like "khumur" means "headscarf". It appears to me that you like to pick and choose when to accept and old definition to have it your way depending on which one suits the point that you like to make.
I can accept either definition of orphans, because no matter what, 43 is still not talking about their mothers, unless you can show me where the word "mother" is in that ayat.
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As-Salaamu Alaikum, peace
continue in the next post
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continued
Any reader of the above verse does not have to be a genius to understand that Polygamy is CONDITIONAL that a person wants to be equitable towards the ORPHANS!
Very true statement, except that this authors conditions are erroneous. Only ONE CONDITION exists from Allah in Al Quran about marrying more than one wife as already stated above and again here
As-Salaamu Alaika RasulHamsa,
There is only ONE Quranic condition for polygyny. That is that if a man fears that he will not be just to them, (notice that it is only the one making the decision to marry more than one, i.e. the man), then he should obey Allah and only marry one or "what his right hand possesses". Any other conditions for it are only from those who abhor what Allah has ordered and made halaal because of their ideas about it based on society, what they have heard, what they fear, what they dislike, or what they have experienced in their own lives; and they therefore seek to negate it.
As-Salaamu Alaikum, peace
But WHO are these ORPHANS that we are responsible for yet it is likely that we will not treat them favorably?.
Again, we do not have to look beyond the tip of our noses for the answer
"Do not give those who are immature the money which God has ENTRUSTED you with. You shall provide for them from it and cloth them, and say to them what is just. You shall test the orphans when they reach puberty. As soon as you find them mature enough, GIVE THEM THEIR PROPERTY..." (4/5-6)
Wa Salaam Samia
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Because Allah mentioned their property being restored when they reach the age of marriage as I have pointed out numerous times already. Allah is not saying children can be of marriageable age. So one has to see that these orphans are being talked about in the future tense when they reach the age of marriage. Do we need to go to the grammar to prove this?
The females are being singled out because they are connected with "then marry...from the women". I think that is self explanatory though and you may just be reaching here.
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Once again, Allah is giving instruction for when orphans reach the age of marriage. 43 makes it clear from the context that the female of this group are being referred to. 43 doesn't address those who become men.
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As-Salaamu Alaikum, peace
You must be the GUARDIAN to these Orphans and caretaker to their inheritance BEFORE even considering Polygamy. It is not just for a man to just pick children off the street and claim that he will marry their mother. The man must be the Guardian to the children appointed by their deceased father or because they (the Orphans) are from his blood.
TOTAL HOGWASH CONSIDERING THE EVIDENCE AND CLARITY PRESENTED!
After laying out the rules in which Polygamy is allowed, we are also dealt with more restrictions in the Quran
The rules that this author has laid out are not acceptable and don't meet the correct Quranic criteria. They are a sham to promote someone's point of view through incorrect translations and such.
"You can NEVER be equitable in dealing with more than one wife, no matter how hard you try. Therefore, do not be so biased as to leave one of them hanging. If you correct this situation and maintain righteousness, GOD is Forgiver, Most Merciful." (4/129)
Transliteration Walan tastateeAAoo an taAAdiloo bayna alnnisa-i walaw harastum fala tameeloo kulla almayli fatatharooha kaalmuAAallaqati wa-in tuslihoo watattaqoo fa-inna Allaha kana ghafooran raheeman
Literal And you will never be able that you be just/equitable between the women, and (even) if you held onto stingily and desired strongly (were very careful), so do not bend/sway all the bend/inclination, so you leave her as/like the suspended neither properly married nor divorced and free to remarry (abused, abandoned and neglected), and if you reconciliate, and you fear and obey (God), so then God was/is a forgiving, merciful.
Free-Minds And you will not be able to be fair regarding the women even if you make every effort; so do not sway too greatly and leave her as one hanging in a void. And if you reconcile and do right, then God is Forgiving, Merciful.
Rashad Khalifa You can never be equitable in dealing with more than one wife, no matter how hard you try. Therefore, do not be so biased as to leave one of them hanging (neither enjoying marriage, nor left to marry someone else). If you correct this situation and maintain righteousness, GOD is Forgiver, Most Merciful.
Yusuf Ali Ye are never able to be fair and just as between women, even if it is your ardent desire But turn not away (from a woman) altogether, so as to leave her (as it were) hanging (in the air). If ye come to a friendly understanding, and practise self-restraint, Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.As-Salaamu Alaikum Ahmad,
If you have studied this for yourself, then maybe you should know that this ayat is speaking about behaving "justly" in a divorce scenario. If you are comparing it to the instructions in 43, then you should know that that is a marriage situation, hence the latter does not "abrogate" the first; which is what you would be doing by trying to apply 4129 as a negation of 43.
As-Salaamu Alaikum, peace
Quote from Ahmad on June 09, 2007, 050511 AM
"Ye are never able to be fair and just as between women, even if it is your ardent desire But turn not away (from a woman) altogether, so as to leave her (as it were) hanging (in the air). If ye come to a friendly understanding, and practise self-restraint, Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful." (4129)
So, as we have it DETAILED in God's Book
- Orphans placed in our guardianship are to be treated fairly.
- If we fear biased-ness or unfairness in treatment, we MAY marry their mother.
- We MUST pay their mother her dowry as in the case of a normal marriage.
- We MUST NOT be biased in our dealings with either wife.
- TRUE
- FALSE, WE MAY MARRY ANY WOMAN THAT WE CHOOSE AND AGREE TO MARRY US AS PRESCRIBED.
- TRUE BUT MISLEADING; WE MUST PAY ANY WOMAN (ORPHAN'S MOTHERS ARE NOT SINGLED OUT) THEIR DOWRY.
- TRUE
Under these circumstances it becomes very clear how God's perfect system will be a shield for children who have lost their fathers and need protection in this world, rather than a license for sexual fantasies as most are led to believe.
This author is clearly obsorbed with the idea of sexual fantasies, maybe either from abuse or suppression of normal sexual function and gratification. All orphans are to have their inheritance and property protected and men should not be allowed to marry the orphan girls when they reach maturity just to absorb their wealth into their own. That would be marrying for money and not piety and sincerity. Instead men are told this is not proper because Allah has granted them the right to marry two and three and four women of their choice (and that also are agreeable) without any restrictions except their own conscious if they feel that they can not be just with more than one.
Fankihoo is actually in the command form of the verb and therefore promotion of polygyny is actually occuring since Allah is giving this command first, and then only on condition is a man instructed to marry only "one", or what "his right hands possess". Allah is promoting polygyny as the best type of married life for the muslim family, regardless of how many people dislike or hate it! Allah further confirmed this by addressing the Prophet and his "wives" to show that there is no question as to the legitimacy and promotion of polygyny by Allah
3330
Transliteration Ya nisaa alnnabiyyi man ya/ti minkunna bifahishatin mubayyinatin yudaAAaf laha alAAathabu diAAfayni wakana thalika AAala Allahi yaseeran
Literal You, the prophet's women (wives), who does/commits from you (F) with an evident enormous/atrocious deed , the torture be doubled/multiplied for her two doubles, and that was/is on God easy/little.
Free-Minds O wives of the prophet, if any of you commits evident lewdness, then the retribution will be doubled for her. This is easy for God to do.
Rashad Khalifa O wives of the prophet, if any of you commits a gross sin, the retribution will be doubled for her. This is easy for GOD to do.
Yusuf Ali O Consorts of the Prophet! If any of you were guilty of evident unseemly conduct, the Punishment would be doubled to her, and that is easy for Allah.3332
Transliteration Ya nisaa alnnabiyyi lastunna kaahadin mina alnnisa-i ini ittaqaytunna fala takhdaAAna bialqawli fayatmaAAa allathee fee qalbihi maradun waqulna qawlan maAAroofan
Literal You, the prophet's women (wives), you are not as anyone from the women, if you feared and obeyed so do not soften/submit/obey with the word/opinion and belief, so wishes/desires who in his heart/mind (is) sickness/disease, and say (F) a kind/generous word/opinion and belief .
Free-Minds O wives of the prophet, you are not like any other women. If you are righteous, then do not speak too softly, lest those with disease in their hearts will move with desire; you shall speak in an honourable manner.
Rashad Khalifa O wives of the prophet, you are not the same as any other women, if you observe righteousness. (You have a greater responsibility.) Therefore, you shall not speak too softly, lest those with disease in their hearts may get the wrong ideas; you shall speak only righteousness.
Yusuf Ali O Consorts of the Prophet! Ye are not like any of the (other) women if ye do fear (Allah), be not too complacent of speech, lest one in whose heart is a disease should be moved with desire but speak ye a speech (that is) just.3359
Transliteration a ayyuha alnnabiyyu qul li-azwajika wabanatika wanisa-i almu/mineena yudneena AAalayhinna min jalabeebihinna thalika adna an yuAArafna fala yu/thayna wakana Allahu ghafooran raheeman
Literal You, you the prophet, say to your wives and your daughters and the believers' women they (F) near (lengthen) on them from their shirts/gowns/wide dresses, that (is) nearer that (E) they (F) be known (better than being identified), so they (F) do not be harmed mildly/harmed, and God was/is forgiving, merciful.
Free-Minds O prophet, tell your wives, your daughters, and the wives of the believers that they should lengthen upon themselves their outer garments. That is better so that they would be recognized and not harmed. God is Forgiver, Merciful.
Rashad Khalifa O prophet, tell your wives, your daughters, and the wives of the believers that they shall lengthen their garments. Thus, they will be recognized (as righteous women) and avoid being insulted. GOD is Forgiver, Most Merciful.
Yusuf Ali O Prophet! Tell thy wives and daughters, and the believing women, that they should cast their outer garments over their persons (when abroad) that is most convenient, that they should be known (as such) and not molested. And Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.May the Lord grant us His mercy for all the wrong we have done.
Especially those who don't understand His message in Al Quran and promote false interpretations to suit their apologetic nature for what they hate of what He has ordained!
As Salaamu Alaikum, peace
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Peace IQO,
Nice work! Hopefully the author will take your critique into consideration and reply here as well as update when/if necessary - disregarding the personal insults of course
At the very least, a discourse between the author and yourself should iron out the disagreements.If not, you seem knowledgeable enough to offer your own contribution in the form of an article on the subject.
peace
-
As Salaamu Alaika Tay,
Thanks. I know I should withhold some of the personal things, although since I don't know who the person is, they aren't too personal. P Sometimes I guess I do get fired up, not angry...but we African American people can be a little soulful if you know what I mean. Must be a part of the culture or something. o I will try to do better in the future, Allah willing.
I am willing to have dialogue with anyone on the forum for sure. Right now, I don't concern myself too much with trying to get articles posted on free-minds.
As Salaamu Alaikum, peace
Peace IQO,
Nice work! Hopefully the author will take your critique into consideration and reply here as well as update when/if necessary - disregarding the personal insults of course
At the very least, a discourse between the author and yourself should iron out the disagreements.If not, you seem knowledgeable enough to offer your own contribution in the form of an article on the subject.
peace
-
Peace IQO,
Thanks.
You're welcome, and thank you.
Sometimes I guess I do get fired up, not angry...but we African American people can be a little soulful if you know what I mean.
I think we all have our moments. -
So long as we return to peace, all is well.I am willing to have dialogue with anyone on the forum for sure. Right now, I don't concern myself too much with trying to get articles posted on free-minds.
Well, I'm clueless as to who the author is, or how old the article is, so this may be a fruitless wait. Putting together an article, from my experience, is always gratifying and beneficial. Whether or not it gets posted in the article section is besides the point really. If you're up to it, put your thoughts together and post the article as a thread for your own benefit and for others as well - think of it as spiritual zakat
Remember, our knowledge base as a whole is constantly evolving and growing, and this is only done with contributions from all the members. Someone may view his/her own thoughts as moot or not good enough to post or whatever, but sometimes all it takes is one word or phrase to trigger a new avenue of insight.
Peace,
Tay -
Peace all,
I can smell it that you brother "ImamQuranOnly" has 2 wives or more and it's therefore you became so frustrated when you read that article, right!?
Maria
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Peace Wakas,
I had trouble locating it myself. It was under the "Women" tab
http//www.free-minds.org/women/polygamy1.htm
Peace Tay,
I opened that link and read that article on polygamy and honestly it was very well written and easy to understand.
So please don't delete that article, it would be ashame to delete it.
Peace
Maria -
Peace Tay,
Oh Ok, but I think Br Layth is more clever than that than to delete something because one person has a problem with it.
And what I remember far back, it was Br Layth who was very keen to discuss that topic about polygamy.
Peace
Maria peace handshake -
Peace SwedenMajidah,
If you are truly concerned about the truth of guidance coming from Al Quran, then you would be more concerned about the logic of the refutations I gave to the article instead of what my personal marriage situation is. But it seems that you have nothing to offer to those points of view except an appeal to Tay and then Layth not to delete the article.
It is clear to me from your posts in other threads, that you are not here to promote the truth of Al Quran as a whole from Allah anyway. You are really here to promote your viewpoint of what YOU think is right and wrong from your own concept of the "universe and Law of Attraction". You have made it clear that you have no real faith in Al Quran as pure scripture for guidance from Allah, since you believe that Allah is really just a name for the universe and all things in it. Al Quran calls that SHIRK, so Im sure you disagree with that part of it also. So Im not really surprised that as a women you abhor what Allah has ordained as polygyny.
But if you have any constructive replys that are based upon the study of Al Quran only regarding this subject, they are still welcome as far as I am concerned. By the way, I didn't really expect to get anyone to remove the article. It is clear to me that most here seem to agree with it. That is fine by me. Most people who follow Al Quran, or say that they do, also believe in "sunnah and hadeeth". That doesn't bother me either when it comes to the truth of Al Quran.
As Salaamu Alaikum, peace
Peace all,
I can smell it that you brother "ImamQuranOnly" has 2 wives or more and it's therefore you became so frustrated when you read that article, right!?
Maria
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Peace,
It's nothing wrong with that article and it present evidence in form of many quran verses to back up for it' s understanding so why should i then come up with more evidence, when they already have present it in a logical way!?
Prophet Muhammad stayed faithful to his first wife until her death but then afterwards he married many women and nearly all of them were widows who also had children. That is what Quran says, to marry the mother of the orphans to help and support them.
Have you marry an widow with children?
Maria
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Peace SwedenMajidah,
Peace,
It's nothing wrong with that article and it present evidence in form of many quran verses to back up for it' s understanding so why should i then come up with more evidence, when they already have present it in a logical way!?
You obviously didn't bother to read the evidence against the article and the mistranslations used. Not that I am surprised by that.
Prophet Muhammad stayed faithful to his first wife until her death but then afterwards he married many women and nearly all of them were widows who also had children. That is what Quran says, to marry the mother of the orphans to help and support them.
PROVE ANY OF THAT FROM AL QURAN! OR ARE YOU SUGGESTING THAT WE TRUST THE "HADEETH" SOURCES FOR THAT INFORMATION? ??? WAIT, PROVE MOST OF THAT EVEN FROM HADEETH! rotfl SEEMS AS YOU DON'T KNOW QURAN OR HADEETH VERY WELL SINCE YOU ARE QUOTING POPULAR MISCONCEPTIONS WITHOUT KNOWLEDGE.
Have you marry an widow with children?
Maria
What is this obsession with my married life? Can you try to focus on the topic, i.e. the article and it's refutation; to post something of value instead of asking me about my personal life all the time?
As Salaamu Alaikum, peace
-
Peace,
I rather don't want to discuss things with you because I trust my intution that you are not good spirit and therefore I will not harm my good spirit by wasting my valuable time with you.
Maybe someone else have the gut to play a game with you.
I am too keen to take care of my well being than to argue with closeminded so called religious people voodoo
My father have right, hehe more religious more idiots, they cannot think outside the box it seems like.
Maria
