The true female and male hijab?
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As Salaamu Alaika siki,
LOL rotfl It was a mess, and I'm not proud of the arguments. But I still referred to it because I stand by the arguments that I put forth to make the point. Hopefully those who read it can look at the points of importance and ignore the other parts. -\
As Salaamu Alaikum, peace
IQO. salam brother
Actually i am enlightened, ! because i myself need to sort out this head cover thing, (which presently i am not too sure about) confused
I have just gone through it without really evaluating the important points made by both sides , and have to cross check/verify them myself. eat voodoo
I shall soon do it in my spare time and inshallah would get back with my opinion , as to who's side ; I side by. ;D
siki
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I really don't understand where you get your points from unless you don't believe in Al Quran as divine scripture from Allah as guidance for all humanity. And are we talking about "awrah" or "zeenah" or all of 2431?
When I refer to zero knowledge, I don?t mean the level of knowledge ImanQuranonly has but the content of the verse itself. It is relegated to zero knowledge, for example, to deprive its discussion of the concept of awrah because awrah is simply another word for zeenah which the verse deals with
And let the believing women not display their zeenah to any but ? the children who are unaware of women?s awrah.
Peace,
Hasan Akcay -
When I refer to zero knowledge, I don?t mean the level of knowledge ImanQuranonly has but the content of the verse itself. It is relegated to zero knowledge, for example, to deprive its discussion of the concept of awrah because awrah is simply another word for zeenah which the verse deals with
And let the believing women not display their zeenah to any but ? the children who are unaware of women?s awrah.
Peace,
Hasan AkcayIs this a change of mind from zeenah = jewelry?
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However, how would you translate the awra in both ayas in the same meaning as the zeena in 24.31? (huruf)
In 3313 the musrekeen's houses are awra. They are prone to plunder.
In 2431 the women's zeenah are awra. They are prone to jealousy.The houses mentioned in 3313 do not tempt anybody sexually. Neither do the zeena in 2431.
The word awra is used in 2458 too, but this time with the meaning related to sexual maturity of the children from you (minkum). They have to take permission to enter their parents' room.
Isn't it clear enough, a woman's own children are fobidden to see her awra when it means parts of her body such as her breasts and genital organs even though they have not reached sexual maturity (lam yablugu'l khuluma) yet.
On the other hand, there is no referrence to the children's sexual maturity in 2431; plus, they are not defined as from you (minkum), and you are allwed to reveal your zeenah to them.
Is it not clear enough?
What else do we want God to tell us so that we will accept that the zeenah in 2431 can not be breasts, bellies, genital organs... and that they are simply the jewlry women wear?
Peace,
Hasan Akcay -
Salaam Hasan
You are the one who is linking zeenah to 3awra, whereas the whole verse does not mention 3awra. And BTW, 3awra has nothing to relate it to sex or seual desire, as you have noted yourself in the different verses. 3awar means diappearance of the eye sight, hence a3war means one eyed person. So, "3awra" is anything we do not want others to see (make them blind of it). Why would a necklace be "3awra" just because it is around my neck, or a bracelet just because it is aroung my wrist? What if I am not wearing any jewelry, can I show my bosom? If it is my wrist that should not be seen, then the verse would have given us a "design" for a dress code. But the verse speaks about the zeenah of women.
Unfortunately, no other "zeenah" is mentioned in the qur'aan, but we can understand it from some other derivatives
4112; 675 the zeenah of the sky is its lamps "stars".
497 zeenah of hearts is righteousness "imaan"
1024 Earth natureWe can roughly deduce that the zeenah for anything is directly related to it and exclusive to it. To my understanding deduced from this, zeenah of women is something exclusive to them and directly related to them. Jewelry fails this test.
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Salaam Hasan
You are the one who is linking zeenah to 3awra, whereas the whole verse does not mention 3awra. And BTW, 3awra has nothing to relate it to sex or seual desire, as you have noted yourself in the different verses. 3awar means diappearance of the eye sight, hence a3war means one eyed person. So, "3awra" is anything we do not want others to see (make them blind of it). Why would a necklace be "3awra" just because it is around my neck, or a bracelet just because it is aroung my wrist? What if I am not wearing any jewelry, can I show my bosom? If it is my wrist that should not be seen, then the verse would have given us a "design" for a dress code. But the verse speaks about the zeenah of women.
Unfortunately, no other "zeenah" is mentioned in the qur'aan, but we can understand it from some other derivatives
4112; 675 the zeenah of the sky is its lamps "stars".
497 zeenah of hearts is righteousness "imaan"
1024 Earth natureWe can roughly deduce that the zeenah for anything is directly related to it and exclusive to it. To my understanding deduced from this, zeenah of women is something exclusive to them and directly related to them. Jewelry fails this test.
Salaam Samia.
You are the one who is linking zeenah to 3awra...
No, God is doing that. Please remember, to prove my point I cited the relevant part of An-Nuur 31 beforeAnd let the believing women not display their zeenah to any but ? to the children who are unaware of women?s awrah.
It is clear from these wors of God's that women's zeena and women's awra stand for the same thing.
Samia, please give me time to breathe. I can not write in two threads at the same time. When I entered the forum, my intention was to answer your post in the POLYGAMY thread but had to stop here to answer your new post.
Peace,
Hasan Akcay -
ImanQuranonly, please excuse me from this discussion because the points you make do not look serious to me, and I see that it will be too tiring to take everything from zero knowledge.
Peace,
Hasan AkcayHasan Akcay,
Alhamdulilaah. Nice way to say that you don't know what you are talking about and can't prove the points that you are prompting regarding this topic. That is typical of someone with such an opinionated and strong view on something, to then just ignore all the evidence presented against it and try to reduce the discussion to an irrelevent point that doesn't prove their point.
If you ever get the time to read and study the information presented and produce some Quranic reason and logic to agree or disagree with them, then I would be pleased to read what you have to say about it. Otherwise, well you know...
As Salaamu Alaikum, peace
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Salaam siki brother,
Looking forward to your comments and points of view on the subject matter when you get the time.
As Salaamu Alaikum, peace
IQO. salam brother
Actually i am enlightened, ! because i myself need to sort out this head cover thing, (which presently i am not too sure about) confused
I have just gone through it without really evaluating the important points made by both sides , and have to cross check/verify them myself. eat voodoo
I shall soon do it in my spare time and inshallah would get back with my opinion , as to who's side ; I side by. ;D
siki
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PEACE
The way i understood it is that you should cover from your chest area to your knee's.
But on the other than what i don't really get is that alot of things can excite men.
Wether that may be her eyes, hair, or just the smooth skin whatever that may be.
As far as i know, it's be to use common and moral sense when it comes to dressing up
and obviously not purposly dress to impress. LOl... -
men in hijab, rotfl like hello..........have you not been to the arab countries men wear hijab more then women, its called 3qal wkafiyi rotfl rotfl
afridi where are you come come listen to this, men in hijab rotfl rotflDo you think men are not waering.......
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2431
and say to those believers (females) lower they from eye sights (gazes) theirs (f)
and guarded they (Furūjahunna) intimate parts (genitalia) theirs (except spouses 7029-30)
and not divulged they (Zīnatahunna) adornment theirs except what apparent from it (731)
and to striketh they (Bikhumurihinna) with cover (veil, shawl, etc.) theirs over boobs theirs
and not divulged they (Zīnatahunna) adornment ('boobs' theirs except to husbands theirs
or fathers theirs
or fathers husbands theirs
or sons theirs
or sons of husbands theirs
or brothers theirs
or sons brothers theirs
or sons sisters theirs
or womenfolk (female relatives, etc.) theirs
or what entrust right hands theirs
or the attendants other than holders the desires (arousal) among the menfolk
or the young (prepuberty) the ones not cognizant they of on nakedness the womenfolk
and not striketh they with feet theirs to maketh known what concealed they from (Zīnatihinna) adornment theirs
and turn (repent) ye of towards الله altogether of you those believing perhaps you succeedingAbove is mainly about covering boobs (think breastfeeding allowed with close family).