ATTN Arnold - Why will Trinitarians, idol worshippers, etc. not go to Heaven?
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Peace,
First of all, Jannat is not a place, but a state of being, it means to be in a state of unending development, as Jannah is a garden with so much growth, you cannot see the ground (JNN=to be covered).
To believe in a trinity or a multitude of gods or powers, or to believe in mythical creatures means you base your beliefs not on proof as demanded (3191, 1736), but on man-made books and legends. Thus you follow your ancestors blindly. This also means you will not go beyond your ancestors, thus you do not develop, you are in Jahim(=fire=barriere=to stop something from acting or journeying).
The whole Universe is based on evolution, not the law of the fittest, but the law on what will make your own species develop further. Many biologists have in my eyes misunderstood evolution as the law of the strongest, but I believe it is the law of the most benficial to the species.
A mushrikeen, one that bases his or her beliefs on man-made sources can be good to others, but do not contribute to the development of mankind and even stops mankind. A triniterian will uphold capatilism as its system, an unfair system that does not help mankind.
Thus, because a triniterian, sunni, shia, buddhist and so on hold on to man-mad beliefs and thus also man-made systems, they hold back Mankind as a whole. Thus they are not beneficial to Mankind and its development.
If people wanted REAL beneficience for Mankind, they would look for something that truly benefitted mankind as a whole. But no, they are only busy with PERSONAL salvation as this is what their beliefs tells them to pursue.
This is also why many Muslims reject the Quranic System, as it doesn't support personal salvation as its goal, but universal development.
Because of this, Mankind lives under man-made laws and systems and thus do not really develop and constantly end up in a state of Jahannam, a place of no growth, a place of destruction.
When we do not develop in this life, we will not also develop in the Next Life.
Thus you are judged on how benefitting you were to Mankind and its development as a whole. Not just your good deeds to single persons here and there. No, you are judged on your position and contribution to Mankind as a whole.
Just as we lost our tails during evolution, people who do not contribute to the development of mankind will also be lost during the Universal Evolution and end up in the garbagedumop of the Universe, Jahannam. Those that do contribute to the development of Mankind as a whole are chosen to stay within the evolution of the Universe, they are in a state of Jannah, neverending growth and development.
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ATTN Arnold - Why will Trinitarians, idol worshippers, etc. not go to Heaven?
Yes Arnold, this is wrong! Please let them in!
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My dear brother,
I do believe that eventually every single human will learn to develop themselves, but only when they will drop all things that are jahims/barriers for their evolution. A short extraction from another article by me, where I explain how this process of purifying goes. In this I focus on the learning trial on Earth, but it is the same in the Next stage of the Universe I believe
When people and nations fall into misery, they will acknowledge that following God's guidance is the best way. So falling into misery and war(jahannam) is also a lesson. Jahannam is called the maula/protector in 5715 of the rejectors, as refering it to be a between phase of humanity, and also called umm/mother in 1019, which refers that Jahannam is a position of nurturing as a lesson to them for knowing that following all selfish desires will not attain them anything. It is a classroom that will show them their way will get them nowhere. Jahannam in the history of this earth, is a lesson between believing in illusion and reality, following God's guidance and following human ideas, which is why everyone will see Jahannam, once in their excistence 1971. This verse beautifully shows that everyone in their lifetime has one time neglected following God's guidance which in the end gave them misery.
That Jahannam is a between phase of humanity can also be seen at the use of fitnah in 2191, 292&10, where it refers to the trials for the believers. Fitnah comes from the meaning of 'purifying gold' or 'throwing in rubbish to the fire'. Which refers to loosing illusions that will create bad fruits/results, as they are confronted with the truth during those fitnah's, they are confronted with the Law of Requital, the result of their deeds. The gold=nafs must be cleaned of all veils/illusions as in 1746, so it can attain the higher mindstate and society. In 3763 people in a Jahannam will also get fitnah, which refers to 'the tree of zaqum'.
As shown by the word Jannah='garden covered in foilage', whereby the ground refers to the Nafs/Self or society which has certain knowledge and beliefs, which will create certain deeds=trees, and the fruits are it's results. So is the same understanding with 'the tree of zaqum' which is a deed which is called a 'fitnah' in 3763, a purifying deed. Zaqum means literally, 'a tree with small round leaves without thornes, it has a penetrating smell and is bitter, the tips of the leaves are filthy tasting'. It is a real existing tree in East Arabia. It is so bitter, even camels don't eat it.
So for humanity, the Hells on earth they have created themselves through following their selfish desires, are purifying, but this purifying will be experienced as eating something filthy. It is falling into destruction which will taste bitter, but is in the same time a purifying thing, as they have at least lost the belief that greed will get them anywhere, they will loose the belief humanity can guide itself alone or by 'religions'. They are purified from the concepts of following their own desires and neglecting God's true guidance.
In short, humanity will learn the truth, as it will be sick of all the misery they have created throughout the ages.
So is Jahannam then for eternity? Let?s see the verses and words involved
11106 Now those who by their deeds brought misery on themselves will be in the Fire; sighing and wailing will be their portion. (21100).
11107 Therein to abide, as long as the New Universe endures; that is time beyond count, unless your Lord decrees otherwise. Your Lord is Doer of what He Wills in the World of Command. (The current Universe will be dismantled for a new Universe 544, 1448, 21104, 2522, 3937, 6916, 709).
As long God deems it neccesary, people will be in Jahannam. But look at the difference between these verses above and the verse that comes after it
11108 The happy ones on that Day will enter the Garden and live there as long as the New Universe endures, that is time beyond count; until your Lord opens for them the way to further evolution, a gift unfailing.
With the verses about Jahannam, we don't see something like 'a punishment unfailing'.
We only see this with Djenna 'a gift unfailing'.
So Jahannam, will be somewhere in the evolution of the universe, to be left behind, as humankind has learned enough not to be no more in that state of mind and experience. So everyone will be in Djenna, and creating paradise in our lives. Which will go on forever, a true gift unfailing. But to understand this better, we have to look at some more verses.
Here is a summary of the use of 'eternal' in the Quran, and shows it is used and only meant for as long the condition is present, which indicates, as shown in 11107-109 that hell is only there till a certain moment, as only Djenna is approached as a gift unfailing, while Gehenna is not mentioned as a punishment unfailing, this is a truly important difference, God doesn?t forget and just like He mentioned everything with a purpose, He also never neglects things without a purpose.
http//19.org/index.php?id=91,420,0,0,1,0&PHPSESSID=082fbf53bf9b69d0feef694193a7437e
And I will always focus on this verse
- Except whom your Developer to perfection has mercy and providing upon/rahima rabbuka ; and for that He has created them.
Raheem's definition is The Provider of development for those who are fit for further development.
Rabb means Developer to Perfection.Thus these 2 combined have an interesting relationship where one refers to developing to perfection to all humans, and the other gives the condition for the development, those that are ready for further development.
Allah is called Rabbi-Allameen in Surah 114, this means He is the Developer to perfection to ALL humans, no exceptions.
Thus I believe every person will eventually move on to higher dimensions, although some first have to go through several extra stages. This is the whole reason for the Quran, to help people skip several stages.
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Peace Arnold,
Thanks for the detailed response'. You make a lot of sense so heres some things that I have questions on.
- What exactly is the akhirah? Are we literally recreated? How do we exist there? If Janaat and Jahannam is a state of mind, where are we in existance in the after life?
- What about the points in the Quran that states about the flesh burning and being recreated?
- What about other creations, like dogs, elephants, monkeys, etc? How do they fit into akhirah?
- Do you believe in aliens? How would they fit into akhirah?
Thanks for your viewpoints on the issue, leaves much to think about. I heard from Ahmad Deedat regarding the the criteria to enter Janaat and "Believing in the Last Days". I always questioned that part until he mentioned that what it meant was believing in self responsibility, then it made sense.
Peace
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Salaam,
For 1 to 3, please read
http//19.org/index.php?id=91,420,0,0,1,0&PHPSESSID=5ac0596be7a6eb6c4d15f501ac7389e9
http//19.org/index.php?id=91,419,0,0,1,0&PHPSESSID=5ac0596be7a6eb6c4d15f501ac7389e9
For 4, yes and just as we fit in the next phase of the Universe.
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Salaams Arnold
Salaam,
For 1 to 3, please read
http//19.org/index.php?id=91,420,0,0,1,0&PHPSESSID=5ac0596be7a6eb6c4d15f501ac7389e9
http//19.org/index.php?id=91,419,0,0,1,0&PHPSESSID=5ac0596be7a6eb6c4d15f501ac7389e9
For 4, yes and just as we fit in the next phase of the Universe.
Thank you for the response. The first link, I read it a while ago. I did however do a scan of it and did a search for animals and there was only one instant of the word. I believe that as well. My question for you was, what about in Akhirah? Do they just go in their same state of mind? Is that the state of mind that we enter, the ones that the animals are born with in this life?
Regarding aliens, my question is more of, would their judgement be like those of the animals, plants, etc. or more of the human judgement, where we don't follow our instincts? Its easy to state earthly matters, but I think its harder if we introduce aliens into the mix. For example, if the alien couldnt learn our language, would that make them like animals? If they did could speak our language, would that mean that they would be like humans? Sorry if it sounds confusing. I know we can't say until we meet (if ever) any, but I just would like your thoughts.
Thanks.
Peace
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Salaam Amuslim,
First of all is your approach completely wrong, you classify aliens as animals. There are 2 distinct levels of existence, those that follow instinct and those that have free will and can follow Divine instinct given through Wahi/Revelation.
If an alien race is developed enough and has left their dominant instinct behind you can be assured Allah will guide them just as He guided us with their own revelation.
Since when are we some superspecies and all other potential intelligent aliens animals just because they do not speak our language? Please rethink your reasoning very carefully.
As for animals, I believe the whole Universe wil be created again as is stated in the Quran many times, but it will be on a higher level of development and potentials. Thus animals will be part of it of course.
Please lose the mythical heaven and the idea of it just being a state of mind, it is a state of existence. You are not in a dream or entering a dream.
You are in reality and will remain in reality. This Universe is step1, akhira is step 2, 3,4,5 etc. It is just the Universe in constant development, when you follow God's Laws, you remain part of that Universal development, when you differ from the Laws, you are not part anymore of the Universal Evolution.
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Peace Arnold,
Salaam Amuslim,
First of all is your approach completely wrong, you classify aliens as animals. There are 2 distinct levels of existence, those that follow instinct and those that have free will and can follow Divine instinct given through Wahi/Revelation.
If an alien race is developed enough and has left their dominant instinct behind you can be assured Allah will guide them just as He guided us with their own revelation.
Since when are we some superspecies and all other potential intelligent aliens animals just because they do not speak our language? Please rethink your reasoning very carefully.
As for animals, I believe the whole Universe wil be created again as is stated in the Quran many times, but it will be on a higher level of development and potentials. Thus animals will be part of it of course.
Please lose the mythical heaven and the idea of it just being a state of mind, it is a state of existence. You are not in a dream or entering a dream.
You are in reality and will remain in reality. This Universe is step1, akhira is step 2, 3,4,5 etc. It is just the Universe in constant development, when you follow God's Laws, you remain part of that Universal development, when you differ from the Laws, you are not part anymore of the Universal Evolution.
I didnt classify Aliens as animals. My question was, how would we classify? How would we make the difference between how we are, with the instinct and dont necessarily follow it, and animals who have no choice but to follow it. What exactly is following the instinct and not? Pitbulls are notoriously labled as attacking other dogs. On the outside, we would think they are not following the instinct. Where does their psychological aspect and instinct aspect come into play? How does that make a difference to us? My whole point was, isn't it confusing?
So in the next life, since it is a new universe, it means, same as this life, just new skins? Whats to stop us from going from Janaat down to Jahanam, yet they can progress from jahanam to Janaat? Is there another level of Janaat after Janaat? You state evolution, so when does it exactly stop?
Offtopic, but is there any notion that we will be married? Will we have the same partners in this life in the next? Ive heard different opinions on this. What's yours?
Peace
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Peace Arnold,
I didnt classify Aliens as animals. My question was, how would we classify? How would we make the difference between how we are, with the instinct and dont necessarily follow it, and animals who have no choice but to follow it. What exactly is following the instinct and not? Pitbulls are notoriously labled as attacking other dogs. On the outside, we would think they are not following the instinct. Where does their psychological aspect and instinct aspect come into play? How does that make a difference to us? My whole point was, isn't it confusing?
So in the next life, since it is a new universe, it means, same as this life, just new skins? Whats to stop us from going from Janaat down to Jahanam, yet they can progress from jahanam to Janaat? Is there another level of Janaat after Janaat? You state evolution, so when does it exactly stop?
Offtopic, but is there any notion that we will be married? Will we have the same partners in this life in the next? Ive heard different opinions on this. What's yours?
Peace
Salaam amuslim,
Does a dog need to create a system to live or can it just make use of nature? Does it need guidance on how to work with other animals? Does it need guidance on how to handle peace and war? Economy? Does it has free will? Has killing other dogs anyhting to do with free will or with being victim of its genetic makeup which humans have created?
I believe these answers are very clear. A species that needs guidance through Wahi and a species that is directly through instinct can be recognized immediately on their possibilities and potentials. Which is a slave to nature and which can control nature.
In the same way we can judge alien races.
In the next phase, only the humans that were beneficial to mankind will be part, and they will have access to the information bank of the Universe, Umm-Al-Kitab, which is called the Quantum field by scientists. Through this, mankind will only move up in its evolution as its knowledge and experience has taught what is good and what is not. So I do not believe we will fall into Jahannam again, we have skipt the trial and error phase.
This does not count for those who were not beneficial to Mankind and are stuck in the state of Jahannam, and if they come out of this state is determined on them being fit for further stages or not.
As for being united with loved ones, the Quran is very clear
5221
And they who attained belief, and whose children followed them in belief, We shall unite them with their families. Nor shall we let any of their deeds go to waste. Every human will be held responsible for own doings.
225
Convey the happy news to those who have chosen to be graced with belief, and have done acts of service to humanity. For them will be a most pleasant reward, Paradise in both lives. (Try to understand it in your current vocabulary.) Plush Gardens with streams flowing underneath! When they are provided with the delicious fruit of their deeds, they will say, This is what we were provided before. They had tasted some of the reward in this world. For, they will be given sustenance that will recall their past. These men and women will have pure companions therein, an everlasting happy family life.
408
O Our Lord! Admit them into the Gardens of Eden that you have promised to them, and to the righteous among their ancestors, and their descendants. Surely, You, only You, are the Almighty, the Wise.
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peace
All these negative statements use ABaDa to express a prohibition that will last forever. More accurately, as long as conditions exist. For instance, when the person prohibited from funeral prayer himself dies, the prohibition too ends naturally. A dead person cannot pray at the grave of another dead person and therefore, this prohibition does not practically last for eternity. Similarly, when the wives of the Prophet all died, the prohibition to marry them ceased to exist. Therefore, the eternity of prohibition was in fact limited by the condition or life-time of the subject. In other words, in the above examples, the word ABaDa indicates the entirety of a particular period.
i have a question.
says there 'as long as condition exists',
now if a person goes to hell, what condition will stop existing so that he will exit it?also, why are you so sure that evolution applies to the life after our death?
don't you think there are other laws there that will apply to us that we don't know/understand yet?doesn't it say in the quran that it won't matter if they believe then (after they die), that it will be too late?
and what do you think of this
280 And they said "The Fire will not touch us except for a few number of days." Say "Have you taken a pledge with God? If so, then God will not break His pledge. Or do you say about God what you do not know?"
281 Indeed, whoever gains a sin, and is surrounded by his mistakes; those are the people of the Fire, in it they abide eternally.so are you saying they're right? that they will only be in it for a limited amount of time?
besides, do you really think it's fair that all nonbelievers, idol worshipers, murderers, rapists, thieves, liars, hypocrites, people who made corruption in the world, who were greedy, selfish, arrogant, people who mocked and insulted God... to sum up all bad people who deserve to go to hell in the first place,
now is it really fair for them to exit hell and go in heaven?i'm sorry if the way i asked seems a bit impolite or rude or anything, didn't mean it like that.
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Salaam Nerspi,
This article I wrote a year ago as a sort of snapshot of my research. Today I would write it completely differently.
I believe that only those people who are fit for further development will eventually move on to other stages. If people are completely thrown out of existence, I am not totally sure yet. But I am starting to understand the conditions involved in this process, and it has nothing to do with the mythical hell or heaven, it all about Cosmic Evolution and being part of it or not.
As for 280, I have already discussed in my article, please read it again.
And why do I believe the Next Life and the whole working of the Universe is based on the Law of Evolution. First the Creation contains no contradictions and Allah's Laws do not change, throughout the whole Universe we can see the Law of Development at work, on small and large scale.
And the Quran also uses the Law of Evolution and connecting it with the Next Life
225
O Mankind! If you are in doubt that humanity will one day stand on its feet, and that you will be resurrected back to life after death, (consider the process of your own evolution.) We have created you in stages From dust, then from male and female gametes, then from a zygote, then from an embryo, shapely and first shapeless. We thus clearly explain things for you. The embryo and then the fetus stay in the womb until an appointed term according to Our Laws. Then We bring you forth as infants and carry you to maturity. While some of you die young, others live to the feeblest old age so that they know nothing after knowing much. (Resurgence of humanity can take place just as) you, O Prophet, see a dry barren land, but when We send down water on it, it vibrates with life and grows all kinds of beautiful plants.
Here the Quran directly connects the way we are created in this Life as the same mechanism on how we are created in the Next Life, this is no simple comparison.
But everybody, please let this conversation be between me and amuslim as then it is easier for me to answer the questions, I am very busy so do not have time or urge to answer questions or arguments by several people.
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Peace,
First learnt to have patience in understanding somebody;s point of view before jumping to conclusions and secondly, please respect other people's requests
But everybody, please let this conversation be between me and amuslim as then it is easier for me to answer the questions, I am very busy so do not have time or urge to answer questions or arguments by several people.
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Peace Arnold,
Sorry for the late reply, but I read it earlier. Youve answered my questions, thanks for your insights into those matters, its much appreciated.
Peace
They won't? Our judgement can be futile.
Joe
Disbelivers don't get into jannat, am I right? Much less, idol worshippers who associate partners with God? At least thats what I am reading in the Quran.
Peace
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Peace Brother Arnold
What happens to us when we die, that is the very next second.What happens to the believers ? is the new universe already created for them that they go directly there or would it be created later.Also the non believers, where do they go ??????
Salaam
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Peace Brother Arnold
What happens to us when we die, that is the very next second.What happens to the believers ? is the new universe already created for them that they go directly there or would it be created later.Also the non believers, where do they go ??????
Salaam
All of them will stay in " Alam barzakh ' till the last day.
peace