The Dead Sea Scrolls
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Peace, interesting question. But the dss are not revelations but rather historic descriptions. These should not be of any importance to us cause we uphold quran alone. Any other source of history is conjecture.
Salaam Tariq
Since we do not have access to DSS we can not see it merely as historical descriptions. This could be important documents from biblical time, we need to study it and have free access to this discovery only then we can evaluate it.
Best regards
farida -
Salaam,
We do have parts released and translated. I can recommend the translation by Geza Vermes. I have read the translations and many books regarding them. They consist mainly of 4 subjects
- Rules regarding Temple, Family, Moral, Economy, Contact with Non-Nazarenes, class-structure, war and so on.
- Prophecies on War.
- Forms of Torah scriptures, most of them were populair and known in those times but are rejected by the Church and Rabbi-Judaism. For example the Book of Henoch.
- Translations or Jewism forms on Eastern beliefs and Philosophies.
None of the scripturs can be regarded as Divine scripture as none has the inner structure as the Quran has, nor does any value for the current society when it come sto guidance. the Quran is complete.
But they do give an important view into the Nazerene people. Nazerene comes from Nazre eh beth, meaning the keepers/supporters of the covenant. This is also linked to the Arabic form of Nasara-supporters.
It shows us a completly different story then the Bible and Christian belief wants to tell us. Jesus would never had said, give what is to God due and give what is to the Roman emporer his due. Jesus was part of the freedom movement in Israel. They lived outside Jerusalem at Qumran as they rejected the Farazeen-Jews as they collaborated with the Roman oppressors. They were fighting against Rome and had a specialist army called the Zealots. Many of their scriptures talks about this war and how they will triumph against the heathens.
The temple structure of society was people living mostly as monks and nuns. Only for children were people allowed to marry and have intercourse, for the rest it was not allowed as forms of pleasure between couples. The Nazerenes were seen as the keepers of the bloodline of David as they married royal families to another and trained these children. They believed the Messiah would arise in one of those children, as it did, Jesus.
Their history shows us partially what the Quran tells us also. Them fighting against the Romans and the Jewish priesthood, arousing the people to fight, to create the Deen.
The whole story of Mary in the Quran tells about her being selected for marriage (344) as she was a descendant of Aaron (192, thus one of the royal bloodlines of Abraham. He had a father (685-87). Jesus was meant to be the chosen freedom fighter of God, a Messiah. Jesus aroused his people by proving he was the chosen one by coming with the Injil (349-51).
In 352 his supporters are called hawarijjoen , meaning those that makes clothes white by washing and beating them, this can be seen as a metaphor for these people purifying themselves or that they were really workers. He condemned the hoarding of wealth by his people under the Roman system (349) and he had the same mission as any Prophet, to create the socio-economic system of Deen in his nation (287, 519, 2110)
In 354-55 it is told Jesus and his followers won important battles and eventually Jesus and his mom leave to a place which is called a place on high ground with fertile ground and springs (2350), none of the Christian myths about his death are true as he lived until an old age (346). He also was married and had children (133.
349 And he will be a Messenger to the Children of Israel. He will say to them, I come to you with Revelation from your Lord. If you follow me, I will raise you from dust to the heights of glory by the Command of Allah (7176). The blind among you will begin to see the Truth. Those of you who are spotted with sin, I will heal them, and I shall grant real life to those who are just dragging on without purpose; all by Allah's leave and according to his Laws. I am here to establish justice and equity. I shall see to it how much you hoard in your houses and how much you spend on the community. My teachings are sufficient signs for you to believe.
5110 When Allah will say, O Jesus, son of Mary! Recall My blessings upon you and your mother. I strengthened you with Sacred Revelation, enabled you to speak eloquently to the people while still in childhood, and also at a later age (345). I gave you revelation and wisdom including the Torah and the Gospel. Recall when you formed the state of your people's destiny and that you would raise them from dust up into the heights of glory by My leave (7176). You made people see the Truth otherwise given to blind following by My leave. You healed the wounds of inequity on people by My leave, and you gave a new meaning to life to those who were otherwise no better than dead by My leave (348, 3111, 6123). Recall, how I prevented the Children of Israel from harming you when you came to them with all evidence of the truth (4157). And those who were bent upon denying the truth said, This is nothing but clear deception.
5114 Jesus, son of Mary, said, O God our Lord! Help us create the Heavenly System on earth that ensures abundance of provision for all of us. Let there be a happy feast/id for the founders and the followers (of the Divine System). This will be a Sign from You that Your Commands are blissful. Provide for us and You are the Best of providers.
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Salaam,
We do have parts released and translated. I can recommend the translation by Geza Vermes. I have read the translations and many books regarding them. They consist mainly of 4 subjects
- Rules regarding Temple, Family, Moral, Economy, Contact with Non-Nazarenes, class-structure, war and so on.
- Prophecies on War.
- Forms of Torah scriptures, most of them were populair and known in those times but are rejected by the Church and Rabbi-Judaism. For example the Book of Henoch.
- Translations or Jewism forms on Eastern beliefs and Philosophies.
None of the scripturs can be regarded as Divine scripture as none has the inner structure as the Quran has, nor does any value for the current society when it come sto guidance. the Quran is complete.
But they do give an important view into the Nazerene people. Nazerene comes from Nazre eh beth, meaning the keepers/supporters of the covenant. This is also linked to the Arabic form of Nasara-supporters.
Salaam
I have never considered it a Divine document but would like to know more in details about the true content.
I have with me the first complete translation and interpretation of 50 key documents withheld for 35 years by Robert Eisenman and Michael Wise but I feel it?s not sufficient this is tid bits of information regarding large documents.If Tutankhaman can be brought to Museum in London than why not bring DSS to show them to the world? I would so
happy if some Muslims could study old Hebrew and evaluate it side by side with other learned people of the book.Best regards
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Salaam,
We do have parts released and translated. I can recommend the translation by Geza Vermes. I have read the translations and many books regarding them. They consist mainly of 4 subjects
- Rules regarding Temple, Family, Moral, Economy, Contact with Non-Nazarenes, class-structure, war and so on.
- Prophecies on War.
- Forms of Torah scriptures, most of them were populair and known in those times but are rejected by the Church and Rabbi-Judaism. For example the Book of Henoch.
- Translations or Jewism forms on Eastern beliefs and Philosophies.
None of the scripturs can be regarded as Divine scripture as none has the inner structure as the Quran has, nor does any value for the current society when it come sto guidance. the Quran is complete.
But they do give an important view into the Nazerene people. Nazerene comes from Nazre eh beth, meaning the keepers/supporters of the covenant. This is also linked to the Arabic form of Nasara-supporters.
It shows us a completly different story then the Bible and Christian belief wants to tell us. Jesus would never had said, give what is to God due and give what is to the Roman emporer his due. Jesus was part of the freedom movement in Israel. They lived outside Jerusalem at Qumran as they rejected the Farazeen-Jews as they collaborated with the Roman oppressors. They were fighting against Rome and had a specialist army called the Zealots. Many of their scriptures talks about this war and how they will triumph against the heathens.
The temple structure of society was people living mostly as monks and nuns. Only for children were people allowed to marry and have intercourse, for the rest it was not allowed as forms of pleasure between couples. The Nazerenes were seen as the keepers of the bloodline of David as they married royal families to another and trained these children. They believed the Messiah would arise in one of those children, as it did, Jesus.
Their history shows us partially what the Quran tells us also. Them fighting against the Romans and the Jewish priesthood, arousing the people to fight, to create the Deen.
The whole story of Mary in the Quran tells about her being selected for marriage (344) as she was a descendant of Aaron (192, thus one of the royal bloodlines of Abraham. He had a father (685-87). Jesus was meant to be the chosen freedom fighter of God, a Messiah. Jesus aroused his people by proving he was the chosen one by coming with the Injil (349-51).
In 352 his supporters are called hawarijjoen , meaning those that makes clothes white by washing and beating them, this can be seen as a metaphor for these people purifying themselves or that they were really workers. He condemned the hoarding of wealth by his people under the Roman system (349) and he had the same mission as any Prophet, to create the socio-economic system of Deen in his nation (287, 519, 2110)
In 354-55 it is told Jesus and his followers won important battles and eventually Jesus and his mom leave to a place which is called a place on high ground with fertile ground and springs (2350), none of the Christian myths about his death are true as he lived until an old age (346). He also was married and had children (133.
349 And he will be a Messenger to the Children of Israel. He will say to them, ?I come to you with Revelation from your Lord. If you follow me, I will raise you from dust to the heights of glory by the Command of Allah (7176). The blind among you will begin to see the Truth. Those of you who are spotted with sin, I will heal them, and I shall grant real life to those who are just dragging on without purpose; all by Allah's leave and according to his Laws. I am here to establish justice and equity. I shall see to it how much you hoard in your houses and how much you spend on the community. My teachings are sufficient signs for you to believe.?
5110 When Allah will say, ?O Jesus, son of Mary! Recall My blessings upon you and your mother. I strengthened you with Sacred Revelation, enabled you to speak eloquently to the people while still in childhood, and also at a later age (345). I gave you revelation and wisdom including the Torah and the Gospel. Recall when you formed the state of your people's destiny and that you would raise them from dust up into the heights of glory by My leave (7176). You made people see the Truth otherwise given to blind following by My leave. You healed the wounds of inequity on people by My leave, and you gave a new meaning to life to those who were otherwise no better than dead by My leave (348, 3111, 6123). Recall, how I prevented the Children of Israel from harming you when you came to them with all evidence of the truth (4157). And those who were bent upon denying the truth said, ?This is nothing but clear deception.?
5114 Jesus, son of Mary, said, ?O God our Lord! Help us create the Heavenly System on earth that ensures abundance of provision for all of us. Let there be a happy feast/id for the founders and the followers (of the Divine System). This will be a Sign from You that Your Commands are blissful. Provide for us and You are the Best of providers.?
Sorry I write again
Salaam
I have never considered it a Divine document but would like to know more in details about the true content.
I have with me the first complete translation and interpretation of 50 key documents withheld for 35 years by Robert Eisenman and Michael Wise but I feel it?s not sufficient this is tid bits of information regarding large documents.If Tutankhaman can be brought to Museum in London than why not bring DSS to show them to the world? I would so
happy if some Muslims could study old Hebrew and evaluate it side by side with other learned people of the book.Best regards
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Salaam,
Many pieces of the documents are still hidden by the Catholic Church. But we have many important pieces. I recommend the book called "The Magdelene Heritage" by Laurence Gardner. He explains the Nazerene life in a very interesting way and you will see how it coincides with the Quran in many ways.
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http//www.followtherabbi.com/Brix?pageID=1801
http//www.followtherabbi.com/Brix?pageID=1799
"Dead Sea Scrolls
The Essenes did a tremendous amount of writing. They wrote about their theology, their religious practices, and their expectations of the coming Messiah and a new age. Essene scribes put the Hebrew Testament in writing, and they developed commentaries about several portions of the Text.The Essenes hid their scrolls in Qumran?s caves, perhaps to protect them from the Roman army. Found in 1947, these scrolls have revolutionized the study of Scripture. They provide the oldest copies of the Old Testament ever found. And they give a valuable glimpse into the religious philosophies and practices of Jesus? time.
Most significantly, the Dead Sea Scrolls confirmed the accuracy of the Text. Before they were discovered, the oldest copies of Scripture dated back to approximately AD 1000. Remarkably, few distinctions exist between these copies and the Dead Sea Scrolls, despite the fact that they were written centuries apart.
Though God?s people trust the inspired words of the Bible by faith, the scrolls have confirmed that our faith in the Text is well-founded. God has preserved the integrity of his Word through generation after generation."
The above is about the Old Testament and Dead Sea Scrolls connection.
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Salaam,
Many pieces of the documents are still hidden by the Catholic Church. But we have many important pieces. I recommend the book called "The Magdelene Heritage" by Laurence Gardner. He explains the Nazerene life in a very interesting way and you will see how it coincides with the Quran in many ways.
As far as I know, they were found in Jordan in 1948 and kept by the Jordanian government in East Jerusalem (then Jordanian) until the 1967 6-day war when Jerusalem fell to the Israelis. They belong now to the Israeli government. How did the Catholic Church have access to them?
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See
http//www.amazon.com/Dead-Scrolls-Deception-Michael-Baigent/dp/0671797972/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1199367505&sr=1-5
http//www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0671797972/ref=sib_dp_pt/002-3485564-7317664#reader-link
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The Essenes who were believed to be the authors of the Scrolls were a sect of Judism and probably as similar to Christians as the Quran only, Sunni, s***es, etc. are.
John the Baptist was a Essenes before he left to prepare the way for Jesus.
Wasn't the gospel of St. Thomas found in Eygpt? Too bad some books were lost in a fire.
"The introduction also says, "These are the secret sayings that the living Jesus spoke..." By using the word "secret" the author is telling you that these sayings are not for everyone's ears. These are the secret teachings that are only for a special chosen few - the solitary elect or monachos in Greek (which is where we get the word "Monk" from). Furthermore, they are the "secret" teachings of the "living Jesus." The term living Jesus is to distinguish the dualism of the mortal man - Jesus of Nazareth - and the immortal divine being living inside him. The living Jesus would be a pre-existent godly being conceptually similar to the Logos in the Gospel of John."
LOL!! Daud-19 You sure do watch alot of movies - Stigmata.
Wikipedia
"The plot of the 1999 Hollywood film Stigmata revolves around a cover-up within the Roman Catholic Church of an unnamed lost "Gospel" (that is revealed at the end of the film to be based upon the real-life Gospel of St. Thomas), whose teachings of the immanence of God are profoundly threatening to the church hierarchy." -
The Essenes who were believed to be the authors of the Scrolls were a sect of Judism and probably as similar to Christians as the Quran only, Sunni, s***es, etc. are.
John the Baptist was a Essenes before he left to prepare the way for Jesus.
Wasn't the gospel of St. Thomas found in Eygpt? Too bad some books were lost in a fire.
"The introduction also says, "These are the secret sayings that the living Jesus spoke..." By using the word "secret" the author is telling you that these sayings are not for everyone's ears. These are the secret teachings that are only for a special chosen few - the solitary elect or monachos in Greek (which is where we get the word "Monk" from). Furthermore, they are the "secret" teachings of the "living Jesus." The term living Jesus is to distinguish the dualism of the mortal man - Jesus of Nazareth - and the immortal divine being living inside him. The living Jesus would be a pre-existent godly being conceptually similar to the Logos in the Gospel of John."
LOL!! Daud-19 You sure do watch alot of movies - Stigmata.
Wikipedia
"The plot of the 1999 Hollywood film Stigmata revolves around a cover-up within the Roman Catholic Church of an unnamed lost "Gospel" (that is revealed at the end of the film to be based upon the real-life Gospel of St. Thomas), whose teachings of the immanence of God are profoundly threatening to the church hierarchy."Yup, movies are my thing...
Yes you are right the Gospel of Thomas was found in Egypt when that kid threw the rock and it broke the vase in the cave..
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Peace Farida,
What is Quranist opinion regarding the Dead Sea Scrolls and if there is any connection to number 19 there?
I am certain that like all books ever written, the Dead Sea Scrolls have a Code 19 in them. For example, I am absolutely sure that using the Code 19 methodology, the number of occurences of the word "god" in the scrolls is divisible by 19. If the count initially doesn't add up, you may have to remove a couple of scrolls to get the result, which of course is no problem.
Peace,
Ayman
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Peace Farida,
I am certain that like all books ever written, the Dead Sea Scrolls have a Code 19 in them. For example, I am absolutely sure that using the Code 19 methodology, the number of occurences of the word "god" in the scrolls is divisible by 19. If the count initially doesn't add up, you may have to remove a couple of scrolls to get the result, which of course is no problem.
Peace,
Ayman
Salaam Ayman
To work out code-19 first we need access to DSS, sadly it is tucked away in a museum in Israel. I am sure it would an eyeopener to study it properly.
peace -
Salaam Ayman
To work out code-19 first we need access to DSS, sadly it is tucked away in a museum in Israel. I am sure it would an eyeopener to study it properly.
peaceWhat he meant was that a "Code 19" can be found in any old text. Such as the US Declaration of Independence
http//www.nmsr.org/code19.htm
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What he meant was that a "Code 19" can be found in any old text. Such as the US Declaration of Independence
http//www.nmsr.org/code19.htm
Thanks for the link; BTW I was never keen on code-19 I used it above to debate about DSS; what I actually want is access to DSS so that Ayman & other learned ones can review it.
peace -
For the sake of religious freedom and clarity, sure, but how would the DSS really affect our understanding of the quran?