What If I Call Them What They Are?
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Salam,
Respectfully.Now, would it be wrong or sinful if i was to call the sunnis non-muslims, liars and/or hipocrytes? Publicly?
I mean, i got the proof, i can provide evidences and first and foremost, i am a living evidence of this statment.
No offence to the sunnis but i do not believe that they are Muslims, believers and i have seen them ignore The Quran, sunna and hadeeth, several times i have heard them and seen them commit shirk and if that is not proof enough, i don't know what it is.
No offence to anyoneone, i respect every human being.
Peace.
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Wrong unless in a court of law. If you accused someone of rape or adultery in public, evidence or not, that would be slander since everyone doesn't have a chance to fully understand and see the evidence.
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Salam,
Respectfully.Now, would it be wrong or sinful if i was to call the sunnis non-muslims, liars and/or hipocrytes? Publicly?
I mean, i got the proof, i can provide evidences and first and foremost, i am a living evidence of this statment.
No offence to the sunnis but i do not believe that they are Muslims, believers and i have seen them ignore The Quran, sunna and hadeeth, several times i have heard them and seen them commit shirk and if that is not proof enough, i don't know what it is.
No offence to anyoneone, i respect every human being.
Peace.
Peace Alen,
I see what you mean and sympathise with your urge to expose this fabricated religion to the world. However, sadly it's counterproductive to attack people in their beliefs; it will only harden their resolve. Also we are counseled in the wise Quran to debate with the unbelievers only in the best way, and there's no arguing with that.
Besides some of them are bound to change, just like me. Only a few months ago I was a covinced Sunni who though Quran Aloners were a miserable pack of miscreants; people do change if God wills.
Patience Brother pr
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Peace "G omar",
Also we are counseled in the wise Quran to debate with the unbelievers only in the best way, and there's no arguing with that.
JK- Not necessarily unbelievers the term used in this case is "ahlul kitaab" or "people of the book". And this is when the other party is NOT corrupting the earth/land and/or attacking/oppressing us ALL OF WHICH the sunni high "imams" are doing. So in regards to Ahlussunnah wal Jamaah the following verses would apply
You may FIGHT in the cause of GOD against those who attack you, but do not aggress. GOD does not love the aggressors.
You may kill those who wage war against you, and you may evict them whence they evicted you. Oppression is worse than murder. Do not FIGHT them at the Sacred Masjid, unless they attack you therein. If they attack you, you may kill them. This is the just retribution for those disbelievers.
You may also FIGHT them to eliminate oppression, and to worship GOD freely. If they refrain, you shall not aggress; aggression is permitted only against the aggressors.
FIGHTing may be imposed on you, even though you dislike it. But you may dislike something which is good for you, and you may like something which is bad for you. GOD knows while you do not know.
The just retribution for those who fight GOD and His messenger, and commit horrendous crimes, is to be killed, or crucified, or to have their hands and feet cut off on alternate sides, or to be banished from the land. This is to humiliate them in this life, then they suffer a far worse retribution in the Hereafter.
Once the Sacred Months are past, (and they refuse to make peace) you may kill the idol worshippers when you encounter them, punish them, and resist every move they make. If they repent and observe the Commitment (Salat) and do so purely (Zakat), you shall let them go. GOD is Forgiver, Most Merciful.
GOD Bless! -
Greetings and Peace,
Now, would it be wrong or sinful if i was to call the sunnis non-muslims, liars and/or hipocrytes? Publicly?
For every good deed there is good in return, and for every evil deed, evil in return. What good could come of such an act as branding others liars and hypocrits? Approach your fellow man with greetings of peace.
peace
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Peace,
Well said Nazz.
I think it's wrong to label people. We should show the better example, name-labeling will only turn them away from the good message.
What does this accomplish? Nothing but animosity, and hatred from them.
Some signs I feel are relevant
2272
You are not responsible for their guidance, but it is God who will guide whoever He wishes. And whatever you spend out of goodness is for your own souls. And anything you spend should be in seeking God's presence. And whatever you spend out of goodness will be retuned to you, and you will not be wronged.
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So fight in the cause of God; you are not responsible except for yourself. And enjoin the believers "Perhaps God will put a stop to the might of those who disbelieved." And God is far Mightier and far more Punishing.
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O you who believe, if you strike in the cause of God then make a clear declaration, and do not say to those who greet you with peace "You are not a believer!" You are seeking the vanity of this world; but with God are many riches. That is how you were before, but God favoured you, so make a clear declaration. God is expert over what you do.
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Those who have divided their system and become sects, you are not with them in anything. Their matter will be with God, then He will inform them of what they had done.
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And the servants of the Almighty who walk on the earth in humility and if the ignorant speak to them, they say "Peace."
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Salam,
Respectfully.Now, would it be wrong or sinful if i was to call the sunnis non-muslims, liars and/or hipocrytes? Publicly?
I mean, i got the proof, i can provide evidences and first and foremost, i am a living evidence of this statment
Have you never sinned, or never lied, grow up dear.
Besides what proves do you got? let me see it.Allen
No offence to anyoneone, i respect every human being.
Peace.
Well reading your this post and previous posts i would say this is a Hypocritic statement.
Look at the title of your thread "What if i call them what they are?" this title suggests you are predetermined about them and question mark doesnot makes any sense here. -
Peace "G omar",
JK- Not necessarily unbelievers the term used in this case is "ahlul kitaab" or "people of the book". And this is when the other party is NOT corrupting the earth/land and/or attacking/oppressing us ALL OF WHICH the sunni high "imams" are doing. So in regards to Ahlussunnah wal Jamaah the following verses would apply
You may FIGHT in the cause of GOD against those who attack you, but do not aggress. GOD does not love the aggressors.
You may kill those who wage war against you, and you may evict them whence they evicted you. Oppression is worse than murder. Do not FIGHT them at the Sacred Masjid, unless they attack you therein. If they attack you, you may kill them. This is the just retribution for those disbelievers.
You may also FIGHT them to eliminate oppression, and to worship GOD freely. If they refrain, you shall not aggress; aggression is permitted only against the aggressors.
FIGHTing may be imposed on you, even though you dislike it. But you may dislike something which is good for you, and you may like something which is bad for you. GOD knows while you do not know.
The just retribution for those who fight GOD and His messenger, and commit horrendous crimes, is to be killed, or crucified, or to have their hands and feet cut off on alternate sides, or to be banished from the land. This is to humiliate them in this life, then they suffer a far worse retribution in the Hereafter.
Once the Sacred Months are past, (and they refuse to make peace) you may kill the idol worshippers when you encounter them, punish them, and resist every move they make. If they repent and observe the Commitment (Salat) and do so purely (Zakat), you shall let them go. GOD is Forgiver, Most Merciful.
GOD Bless!Peace Jonny K,
These verses were directed at the Quraish, who were at war with the prophet and the believers, and, although we are indeed under much pressure from the Sunnis we are hardly at war with them and we should not be aggressors right?
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Salam,
Respectfully.Now, would it be wrong or sinful if i was to call the sunnis non-muslims, liars and/or hipocrytes? Publicly?
I mean, i got the proof, i can provide evidences and first and foremost, i am a living evidence of this statment.
No offence to the sunnis but i do not believe that they are Muslims, believers and i have seen them ignore The Quran, sunna and hadeeth, several times i have heard them and seen them commit shirk and if that is not proof enough, i don't know what it is.
No offence to anyoneone, i respect every human being.
Peace.
Sorry Alan but to me anyway- from your post you are the one at a loss, as i was when i came here until recently.
But God willing you will learn what is being a moslem and not a Mulsim.
God Bless.
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Salam,
Respectfully.Perhaps i should explain in further detail
I was thinking going on TV and have like an interview and tell the people that we, The Real Muslims here are not to be asociated with the sunnis, i would say that the sunnis have invented a new religion called sunna and hadeeth world and i would talk about women's rights from the view of The Quran.God willing.
I would not say, you know, sunnis are **** ....
I would not call them names, far from it.
I would say, yes, i have met people who call themselves Muslims, or even sunni Muslims and they are oppressing woemn, they are ignoring the Word of God - The Qur'an - they have started following they own desires and on many occassions they don't even follow sunna nor hadeeth on which they hold tight.I would not call them disbelievers, i would not attack them verbally nor psychically, God forbid. I would not call a war against them but i would rather call them to the round table and tell them to provide the proof from The Quran where humankind is instructed to follow sunna and hadeeth, the meaning of the word Al-Hekmah, i would challenge sunnis and others to produce one proof from The Quran where women are suppose to be treated like they are in Afghanistan and rest of the Middle East, where women are illiterate, don't have the right to make contact with other women throughout the world, they are not allowed to speak publicly, i would talk about hadeeth which label women close to dogs.
I want to have a debate.
I want to establish a contact with sunnis and non-Muslims as well.
I want to tlak about this at length and if i achgieve to come to BBC or CNN or POP TV or Al-Jazeera or ProSeiben or any other TV Network, i would like to talk in a way that phone lines would be open so that people hroughout the world could participate in this - they ask and i would answer.I wanna talk to them.
I don't want to talk at them.For example here in leicester people ask me, why don't you raise your hands at the beginning of the prayer? I answer because there's no such command in The Quran. They say but this is told by prophet Muhammed in his sunna and hadeeth. I tell them that i don't follow sunna and hadeeth.
(Notice how i don't raise my voice and i truly just answer with a simple yes or no.)
Then they ask me bunch of questions like how do you understand The Quran without sunna?
They ask how can you understand or know why certain ayya was revealed, when and to whom?
They tell me, brother, you must talk to sheikh or some scholar who will teach you about Islam.Even though i tell them that i know about Islam everything i need to know, due to the fact that i own The Quran and that i have read it more then 20 times and that i have been practising Islamic duties since 1999, they still insist that i know nothing about Islam, Quran and then they call me disbeliever, they have banned me from the mosque and they keep telling me that i should just go to the church and cross myself or that i should become a pope.
I smile and we part.I would never attack anyone.
My goal is to talk to them and i believe that TV is one of the best solutions.
I also plan to direct a movie about women in Islam but that's on hold.Peace.
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"the real muslims"
someone ought to inform you that the quest for truth is not a journey with an ultimate destination... you can never say "i have arrived at the one and ultimate truth"
all the uninformed people in the world and yet so many still concentrate on the sunnis and shias they grew up with...
are those people the ummiyin whom this message is for?
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Peace to all
Well Araron, I kinda have to disagree with you, I do agree that we are on a continuous journey and that we will evolve as we laern more and more, but I also happen to believe there really is one ultimate truth and that we can arrive at it. There is only One God, and the Quran is his message to us all, and we are to worship and serve only him, I truely believe this is the ultimate truth, and as simple as it sounds it is one of the things most have never yet found. It doesnt mean others are wrong or going to hell, it just means they are still on their journey and if they are sincere they will discover this ultimate truth, God willing. Once we discover this ultimate truth we dont just stop searching though, in fact I found myslef searching and inquiring even more than before, now however, I am searching how to be a bteer person, to do good and implement my beliefs in a practical way to hopefully help improve the world we all share and live in.
Kurt
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Peace "G.Omar",
Peace Jonny K,
These verses were directed at the Quraish, who were at war with the prophet and the believers, and, although we are indeed under much pressure from the Sunnis we are hardly at war with them and we should not be aggressors right?
JK- Im sorry to say but we clearly ARE AT WAR WITH THE RADICAL ISLAMISTS who happen to be both from amongst the sunni and shia sects just like in the time of Nazi Germany the world was at war with them. THEY have declared war on us. They have declared the whole western countries, with a few exceptions PERHAPS, as "dar-al-HARB(abode of WAR)"(see http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dar_al-harb#Dar_al-Harb) and you say we are not at war with them? Perhaps you need to realize in how much danger we are. WAKE UP EVERYBODY BEFORE IT'S TOO LATE. Regarding the verses in the Quran, THEY ARE UNIVERSAL, since the Quran is supposed to be forever and they will apply under the circumstances WHICH THE QURAN HAS ITSELF DEFINED. GOD Bless!
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Peace Jonny K,
Im sorry to say but we clearly ARE AT WAR WITH THE RADICAL ISLAMISTS who happen to be both from amongst the sunni and shia sects just like in the time of Nazi Germany the world was at war with them. THEY have declared war on us.
Who is 'we' exactly? And what exactly are you proposing?
You're comparing Radical Islamists to Nazi Germany? Wow...
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Peace "House M.D."
Peace Jonny K,
Who is 'we' exactly? And what exactly are you proposing?
JK- By "we" i mean the rational, humane and free-minded people, wherever they maybe and IMHO most of them are living in the west.
You're comparing Radical Islamists to Nazi Germany? Wow...
JK- Actually theyr far more dangerous though there is a strong relation. Please see
http//youtube.com/watch?v=IBFBvceJvIU
PLEASE WAKE UP!
GOD Bless! -
Peace jonny_K,
Peace "House M.D."
JK- By "we" i mean the rational, humane and free-minded people, wherever they maybe and IMHO most of them are living in the west.
JK- Actually theyr far more dangerous though there is a strong relation. Please see
http//youtube.com/watch?v=IBFBvceJvIU
PLEASE WAKE UP!
GOD Bless!JK- By "we" i mean the rational, humane and free-minded people, wherever they maybe and IMHO most of them are living in the west.
All of that is subjective, and especially the latter. Free-minded?! Western nations and Christian 'extremists' (see Hitler, see Columbus, see the crusades, see 90s serbia and bosnia etc...) have waged wars and killed billions of people for centuries. I think you need to WAKE UP and Study some history!
What is the conjecture in the video and the wiki article prove? Bush's grand-father actually financed hitler !
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_K2F4-iaxo
Stick to facts please. Don't make ridiculous comparisons. Yeah, there are many muslim 'extremists'. Yes, they are evil. But comparing them to the nazis who killed 6 million people, allegedly ?!!
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ironsky
if you have found it why would you keep searching? the very fact that you admit to still searching means that you have not found it... there is no shame in this
please reread my post and see that i never said there is not an ultimate truth, but instead i said that none of us can stand up and say they have arrived at it
and when you say quran is a message "to us all" who is the "us all" that you refer to?
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Hey Aaron, I have a thought that relates to what you are saying.
Should we EVER reach a conclusion? If we do reach a 'conclusion', we've stopped thinking haven't we? We have closed our minds to the possibilities, haven't we?
Isn't this the same mistake the secterians have made?
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house m.d. (love your show btw)
most people aren't reaching conclusions, they are just accepting a spoonfeeding of a different conclusion
take a look at the salat threads for example... are the people starting from the beginning, or are they starting at "how many times a day is salat?" before most of them even make an effort to discover the meanings of these words they claim to hold so dear?
"what if i call them what they are?"
what is any one of us?
i agree for the most part with your statement that if we reach a conclusion we have stopped thinking...
it is one thing to accept the divine oneness and work from there... is that all there is to "ultimate truth"?
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Peace "House M.D.",
Peace jonny_K,
All of that is subjective, and especially the latter. Free-minded?! Western nations and Christian 'extremists' (see Hitler, see Columbus, see the crusades, see 90s serbia and bosnia etc...) have waged wars and killed billions of people for centuries. I think you need to WAKE UP and Study some history!
JK- Man ofcourse i know that the west used to be almost as evil as the "islamic" world today. Only about 30 years ago here in germany "rape inside marriage" was not recognized as a crime. IM TALKING ABOUT THE WEST TODAY in the 21st century. Now it is one of the most humane that the world has ever seen compared to the rest, though by no means perfect. They have immensely improved and reformed over the past century especially the last couple of decades. In 2001 a new law was passed in germany that "hitting/beating ones children of any sort for any reason" was no longer allowed. So no need to give me history lessons for i know that already. If "muslims" were to follow the Quran Alone they could achieve all this and much more in perhaps only a couple of years but apparently they are bent on following hadith besides the uran.
What is the conjecture in the video and the wiki article prove? Bush's grand-father actually financed hitler !
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_K2F4-iaxo
Stick to facts please. Don't make ridiculous comparisons. Yeah, there are many muslim 'extremists'. Yes, they are evil. But comparing them to the nazis who killed 6 million people, allegedly ?!!
JK- Yes one factor to measure a potential threat is to look at the number of people a certain group/cult has deliberately killed. BUT THIS IS BY NO MEANS THE ONLY FACTOR and one can most certainly not wait and see until that has happened otherwise it would be 10 X Nazi Germany. There are other ways to recognize potential threat and since i lived amongst these people and was almost as radical as the extremists i know what threat they could pose and how many BILLIONS could die. Theyve declared almost the entire western world as "dar ul-harb" meaning "abode of war". For them not even children of whom they label as "kufaar" are considered innocent. And they are the ones in power. If they acquire nuclear weapons the holocaust would seem like nothing in comparison to what would happen then. So please wake up and realize the threat before it's too late. Speak out loudly against the radicals. Dont sowhow any sympathy towards them and let any troops who meet them kill and slay them and cut off their hands and feet on alternate sides. GOD Bless!