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  4. Quran inheritance mistake

Quran inheritance mistake

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved Questions/Comments on the Quran
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  • U Offline
    U Offline
    unknownuser
    wrote on last edited by
    #384

    Peace mmouhammad,

    Good clear summary and agree with most of it except for the following.

    If either of parents is alive and deceased has children then siblings will not inherit but if has no children then living parent or parents will inherit with siblings as per 411, to his mother is 1/6.

    husband, mother, sister, brother, father
    1 -1/2 husband ? 1/6 mother = 1/3 (sister + brother + father) where in 411 are instructions to distribute?

    iv. Moreover, in verse 4176 " " God said siblings, men and women, stating the Gender to avoid any misunderstanding and to confirm that the defined shares for one sister and the two sisters are when there are no brothers. The reason is that all other shares are defined under the general distribution rule at the beginning of verse 411. For example 1s +1b and 2s+1b fall under ikhwatun men and women, hence confirms sisters are alone.

    Correct, excellent post; therefore logically if they are alone (i.e. no brothers) who else can they share 1/2 or 2/3 with?

    4176 They ask your clarification, say "God decrees in Al-Kallati, if human died, not for him a child,
    and for him a sister, so for her half what left, and he inherits her if was not for her a child,
    Fa?in ELSE IF they were two, so to them (F) the two thirds from what left,
    Wa ?In AND IF they were brethren men and women
    so to the male equal luck the two females,
    God clarifies for you that you (not) be misguided, and God is with everything knowledgeable.

    • Father is eliminated since deceased is Al-Kallati
    • Child is eliminated since it is obviously stated in the verse.
    • Spouse is eliminated since....

    1/2 husband + 2/3 sisters = 1 1/6 too much

    Therefore Al-Kallati can have a mother and she can share with siblings stated in 411 ? make sense?

    b. When deceased has Children but No Parents. Kalalah in verse 412 and a man is being inherited Kalalah or a woman and has a brother or a sister then to each is 1/6 and if there are more than that then they share 1/3. Observe, in this case the share equals to that of the parents if they were alive.

    Same issue as above with father; cannot have a sibling together with spouse?

    wife, sister 1 ? 1/4 ? 1/6 = 7/12 unallocated who gets the remainder?

    c. When deceased has No Children and Has no Parents; this is Kalalah in verse 4176

    There obviously has to be someone eligible to enter 4176 and share with sole sister or sisters.

    conclusion
    412 Kallatan (a loner) no father, no spouse
    4176 Al-Kallati (the loner, like my neighbor living with his mother ... lol) no father, no spouse, no child

    Peace

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    • M Offline
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      mmouhammad
      wrote on last edited by
      #385

      Peace Eid,

      I can't understand why a spouse's inheritance is an issue. In the Quran, there is only one single condition that affects spouse's share in the inheritance; this condition is the presence or absence of children in verse 412. Once a spouse's share is paid we move on to distribute the balance.

      Now let us look at Kalalah part in verse 412 and if a man being inherited Kalalah and has a brother or sister (fa li kuli) to each is 1/6 and if there were more than that they are partners in 1/3?

      Okay so a man died, he has a wife, and the wife will inherit 1/4 or 1/8 as per 412 regardless of any case as she is not an apparent part of any condition. So, assume the deceased has children then we give the wife 1/8 share and move on.

      We paid the wife, what is next? Could we give the children their share at this time? well I think we all agree that we need to check if parents are there. (If parents are there, and to his parents to each is 1/6 if has children verse 411) Let us assume that there are no parents, then what? Easy we move to Kalalah 412, the siblings will get max 1/3

      The above case is very possible, a man died, left wife, no parents, has children and has siblings, you say that the sibling do not inherit in the presence of wife, because of Kalalah. I say God said Kalalah man or women and not a widower or a widow " ".

      So for now we have a wife and children ad siblings inheriting under verse 412 Kalalah. If we remove the wife, how will the inheritance change? I say a bonus to children and siblings. So let us bring the wife back and remove the children, then we will have a Kalalah case as in verse 4176; unless you want to give all to wife!!!

      Now let the wife, children, and siblings be, and say his mother is alive. I think this case is very clear, Wife is 1/8, mother is 1/6*remainder, balance to children and nothing for siblings V 411. Removing the wife gives a bonus to children and mother. Still siblings will get nothing even if spouse and father are not there.

      Now let us remove the children, keep wife, mother and siblings, wife gets 1/4 all agree. Bring verse 411 and if he has no children and being inherited by his parents to his mother is 1/3 but if he has siblings then to his mother is 1/6. Siblings get 5/6* remainder even if children and father are not there. And non of Kalalah verses are applicable.


      From your explanation in previous posts, it seems that you think because the shares for the siblings are not defined in 411, the shares must be the ones in Kalalah cases 412 & 176, but when wife is present along with mother, you said the case is no longer Kalalah and hence you give 5/6 to siblings.

      It appears that because mother is mentioned alone with reduced share in verse 411 when has siblings, you assumed the Father is not alive. You draw a conclusion that mother is present in Kalalah cases and also concluded if Father is present siblings will not inherit. Furthermore you concluded that Father's share is twice the mother's except when the deceased has children.


      Verse 411 said to each 1/6 if has children and to mother is 1/3 if no children, but if has siblings to mother is 1/6. In one case, parents get an equal share that is when the deceased has children. The mother gets 1/3 only if the deceased has no children and being inherited by his parents. However, when has siblings, he is no longer being inherited by his parents and therefore to his mother is 1/6.

      In my reading, the conditions applied to parents and siblings in verse 411 are

      1. The deceased has children, to his parents to each is 1/6 ? equal shares
      2. Being inherited by his parents; the deceased has no other heirs. To mother is 1/3.
      3. Not being inherited by his parents; and if he has no children and being inherited by his parents, are two conditions that must be met for mother to get 1/3 share, the has no children part negates case 1 above, the being inherited by his parents part confirms the requirement of no other heirs at same level. The mentioning of siblings and the reducing of mother's share accordingly indicates that the siblings are heirs, hence shares as per condition 2 above is N/A, but shares as per condition 1 is more logical as hinted to by God, then to his mother is 1/6.

      Conclusions
      Kalalah is without parents only.
      ? Presence or absence of spouse is not an issue in Kalalah.
      ? Sibling inherits as alternatives to Children in v 411; parents get 1/6 each, siblings share balance.
      ? Siblings inherit as alternatives to Parents in V 412 Kalalah with children, siblings' get 1/6 each if brother or a sister or a maximum of 1/3 if more than that and the children get the balance.
      ? Siblings inherit as alternatives to both parents and children in V 4176 Kalalah w/o children.

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      • U Offline
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        unknownuser
        wrote on last edited by
        #386

        Peace mmouhammad,

        Conclusions
        Kalalah is without parents only.
        ? Presence or absence of spouse is not an issue in Kalalah.
        ? Sibling inherits as alternatives to Children in v 411; parents get 1/6 each, siblings share balance.
        ? Siblings inherit as alternatives to Parents in V 412 Kalalah with children, siblings' get 1/6 each if brother or a sister or a maximum of 1/3 if more than that and the children get the balance.
        ? Siblings inherit as alternatives to both parents and children in V 4176 Kalalah w/o children.

        Please address the cases already repeated numerous times (simple math)...

        411 without children

        husband, mother, sister, brother, father
        1 -1/2 husband - 1/6 mother = 1/3 (sister + brother + father) how much to each and why?

        4176 without parents and no children

        husband, 2 sisters 1/2 + 2/3 = 1 + 1/6 why too much?

        wife, sister 1/4 + 1/2 = 3/4 why 1/4 is not allocated; who gets it?

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        • M Offline
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          mmouhammad
          wrote on last edited by
          #387

          Peace mmouhammad,

          Please address the cases already repeated numerous times (simple math)...

          411 without children

          husband, mother, sister, brother, father
          1 -1/2 husband (412) - 1/6 mother (411) = 1/3 (sister + brother + father) how much to each and why?

          4176 without parents and children

          husband, 2 sisters 1/2 + 2/3 = 1 1/6 -- why too much?

          wife, sister 1/4 + 1/2 = 3/4 (why 1/4 1/4 unallocate; who gets it?

          Peace Eid,

          husband, mother, sister, brother, father, 1 -1/2 husband (412) - 1/6 mother (411) = 1/3 (sister + brother + father) how much to each and why?

          1-1/2 husband (412); each parent gets 1/6 * 1/2 remainder after husband; sister and brother each 1/2 * remainder after parents -

          husband, 2 sisters 1/2 + 2/3 = 1 1/6 -- why too much?

          1/2 to husband; 2/3*remainder after husband to 2 sisters; remainder after sisters to the relatives and the orphans and the needy.

          wife, sister 1/4 + 1/2 = 3/4 (why 1/4 1/4 unallocate; who gets it?

          1/4 wife, 1/2*remainder after wife to sister; remainder after sister to the relatives and the orphans and the needy

          47
          48

          47 For the men is a portion from what the parents and the relatives left behind, and for the women is a portion from what the parents and relatives left behind, be it little or much; a forced portion.
          48 And if the distribution is attended by the relatives and the orphans and the needy, then you shall give them part of it and say to them a kind saying.

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          • U Offline
            U Offline
            unknownuser
            wrote on last edited by
            #388

            Peace mmouhammad,

            1-1/2 husband (412); each parent gets 1/6 * 1/2 remainder after husband; sister and brother each 1/2 * remainder after parents -

            411 states if children then parents get 1/6 (i.e. there shares are fixed)
            giving the sister and brother 1/12 each is nowhere in Qur'an; that is ruling like umar et al did in the past.

            1/2 to husband; 2/3*remainder after husband to 2 sisters; remainder after sisters to the relatives and the orphans and the needy

            1/4 wife, 1/2*remainder after wife to sister; remainder after sister to the relatives and the orphans and the needy.

            47
            48

            47 For the men is a portion from what the parents and the relatives left behind, and for the women is a portion from what the parents and relatives left behind, be it little or much; a forced portion.
            48 And if the distribution is attended by the relatives and the orphans and the needy, then you shall give them part of it and say to them a kind saying.

            That makes no sense and using that method can "fix" any theory say it goes to poor only in those special cases with a remainder. We do not have to change a thing in anyone's interpretation; you give the remainder to the poor while others like Samia flip it back to the spouse or those in the past ruled the remainder is be divided up evenly amongst all inheritors using algebra normalization or to whatever the imam of the day idea popped in his head.

            There is no remainder, and yes after inheritance is "correctly" distributed in all cases they are to be mindful of the poor.

            Peace

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            • M Offline
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              mmouhammad
              wrote on last edited by
              #389

              Peace Eid,

              I agree, these inheritance rules do not appear clear cut cases, one have to keep trying to understand and link verses together and run all possible scenarios with open mind, and not allowing the mind to be stuck in one position only.

              Let us take verse 411 the first 3 conditions" "; you say these condition are only applicable to children as per " ".

              From my reading, I understood that God used these conditions in other cases; let us start by verse 4176

              4176 They ask your clarification, say "God decrees you in Al-Kalalah, if a man died, not for him children, and for him a sister, so for her half what left, and he inherits her if was not for her children, ELSE IF they were two, so to them (F) the two thirds from what left, But IF they were brethren men and women so to the male luck , God clarifies for you that you (not) be misguided, and God is with everything knowledgeable.

              1. So if he has a sister and a brother then to each is 1/2 -
              2. So if he has 2 sisters then to each is 1/3 - ? this is a fourth condition applicable in Kalalah verse 4176 only when 2 sister are alone and no brothers.
              3. So if he has 2 sisters and one brother then sisters to each is 1/4 and to brother is 1/2 -
              4. so if he has 3 sisters and one brother then sisters share 2/3 and brother is 1/3 -

              Now let us take verse 412

              412 and if a man being inherited Kalalah or a women and has a brother or a sister then to each is 1/6 but if there were more than 2 they share 1/3.

              • Here God used ' ' partners, but did not specify the proportion of partnership. Are we to assume they all get equal shares?
                Well I think not and here below is how I understood the distribution
              1. Maximum share is 1/3 -
              2. sister and brother to each is 1/6 -
              3. 2 sisters and one brother partners in 1/3 - then sisters to each is 1/4 and to brother is 1/2 -
              4. so if he has 3 sisters and one brother partners in 1/3 then sisters share 2/3 and brother is 1/3 -

              Regardless how small or big the inheritance is read verse 47
              47
              A defined given share is the key here to link to what are defined given shares as it is stated at the beginning of verse 411.

              God has defined shares and inheritors under different conditions; I do not think we have any right to change any of them. The remainder in any case can be taken by the state or distributed in accordance to God's instruction in verse 48 and I really don't see why not especially since we gave the defined inheritors there defined shares as instructed. Furthermore, I think the defined share for the 2 sisters alone without brothers is also applicable in all other case that meet this condition; children included.

              One of God's rules in relation to money is to change hands. .

              I think the simple understanding was lost when people started to increase shares and block heirs to suit there political and worldly needs, just like the sons of Israel in the story of the cow in verse 2.

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              • U Offline
                U Offline
                unknownuser
                wrote on last edited by
                #390

                Peace mmouhammad,

                1. So if he has a sister and a brother then to each is 1/2 -

                Once again; who gets the other 1/2?

                wife, sister 1/4 + 1/2 = 3/4 leaves 1/4 unallocated (now becomes a ruling outside Quran whom to flip)

                ELSE IF husband, sister 1/2 + 1/2 = 1 which leaves nothing for the poor.

                1. So if he has 2 sisters then to each is 1/3 - ? this is a fourth condition applicable in Kalalah verse 4176 only when 2 sister are alone and no brothers.

                Once again

                husband, 2 sisters 1/2 + 2/3 = 7/6 too much; whom to takeaway 1/6?

                Else IF doing 2/3 of remainder

                wife, 2 sisters 1/4 + 2/3*1/2 = 7/12 too little; who to flip remaining 5/12?

                Above is same if 2+ daughters in 411 are presumed alone, no sons -- contradiction reason for this long thread.

                1. so if he has 3 sisters and one brother then sisters share 2/3 and brother is 1/3 -

                Cannot use ratios revolving around #of females as with children; different wording fawqa/above two 411 not there in 4176 prevents doing so.

                God has defined shares and inheritors under different conditions; I do not think we have any right to change any of them. The remainder in any case can be taken by the state or distributed in accordance to God's instruction in verse 48 and I really don't see why not especially since we gave the defined inheritors there defined shares as instructed. Furthermore, I think the defined share for the 2 sisters alone without brothers is also applicable in all other case that meet this condition; children included.

                One of God's rules in relation to money is to change hands. .

                I think the simple understanding was lost when people started to increase shares and block heirs to suit there political and worldly needs, just like the sons of Israel in the story of the cow in verse 2.

                Not what was instructed...

                father, brother is unsolvable because father cannot inherit with a sibling.

                mother, 2 sisters leaves 0 to give the father or the poor.

                1/3 mother + 2/3 sisters = 1

                Yes simple, no ambiguity, and the numbers have to equate perfectly without remainders.

                Peace

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                • M Offline
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                  mmouhammad
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #391

                  Peace Eid,

                  Peace mmouhammad,

                  father, brother is unsolvable because father cannot inherit with a sibling.

                  why not, where in the Quran it said that can not be?

                  mother, 2 sisters leaves 0 to give the father or the poor.

                  mother 1/6; 2 sisters 2/35/6 = remainder to the relatives, orphans and needy
                  Mother 1/6, father 1/6; 2 sisters 2/3
                  4/6 remainder = 1/3*4/6 remainder to the relatives, orphans and needy

                  1/3 mother + 2/3 sisters = 1

                  mother 1/6; 2 sisters 2/3*5/6 = remainder to the relatives, orphans and needy

                  Yes simple, no ambiguity, and the numbers have to equate perfectly without remainders.

                  why it has to be w/o remainder, where does it say that?

                  Peace

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                  • U Offline
                    U Offline
                    unknownuser
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #392

                    Peace mmouhammad,

                    why not, where in the Quran it said that can not be?

                    father, brother; you gave no answer how to distribute to each or to the poor.

                    mother 1/6; 2 sisters 2/3*5/6 = remainder to the relatives, orphans and needy

                    2/3 in 4176 is Kalala case; is this a Kalala case with the mother alive?

                    Mother 1/6, father 1/6; 2 sisters 2/34/6 remainder = 1/34/6 remainder to the relatives, orphans and needy

                    Same as above, not Kalala case and Qur'an...

                    Fa?in ELSE IF was not for him a child, and his parents inherited him, so to his mother the 1/3

                    1/3 mother + 2/3 father (2 sisters get nothing)

                    why it has to be w/o remainder, where does it say that?

                    wife, sister 1/4 + 1/2*1/2 = 1/2 too little; with half unallocated.

                    Never a case with remainder; that is a contradiction obvious with only parents (1/3 + 2/3 = 1)

                    Everyone's shares are exactly distributed according to Qur'an detailed in prior post...

                    Peace all -

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                    • U Offline
                      U Offline
                      unknownuser
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #393

                      411 God directs you in your CHILDREN, to the male equal share the two females,
                      so if they are women (daughters) over two, so for them two thirds what he left,
                      and if she was one, so for her the half?

                      A precise equation is given above revolving around the # of females; easy to visualize.

                      Here is the diagram of ratio distribution for CHILDREN?

                      http//i42.tinypic.com/2v9vo89.jpg

                      Females to males (daughters sons) ratio distributions

                      1m 2m_ 3m___ 4m

                      1f___ 11___ 11___ 11___ 11

                      2f___ 12___ 11___ 12___ 12

                      3f___ 21___ 21___ 11___ 21

                      4f___ 21___ 12___ 21___ 11

                      When there is an equal # of boys and girls, they share equally with a ratio 11

                      The above is to my understanding without contradictions and as with any topic is an exercise in logic teaching how to read Qur'an, cross-reference, etc., if it contradicts then it's our understanding at error and if you disagree with the distributions, write a will as God commands and God knows best.

                      The above is all wrong. Cannot resolve the contradiction with identical language used in 411 and 4176

                      • to the male - alike - fortune - the two females

                      411 ABOVE TWO means two or more since two is mentioned
                      4176 IF TWO means if at least two are present otherwise the case for 3 or more is unknown

                      Therefore, the girls are alone (1/2 or 2/3) in both verses else if mixed each male gets twice that of each female.

                      Algebra has to be used to keep the ratios given proportionate.

                      OK all done here.

                      Peace all.

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                        No longer a Sunna-rejecter
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #394

                        Makes sense.
                        BTW, did you forget your password again or why did you change your name again?

                        I am no longer a Sunna-rejecter. See 4:59-65, 62:2-4, 3:31, 4:156, 7:157 Messenger teaches and is to be followed and obeyed. Examples of revelation received which is not in the Qur'an: 3:123-126, 33:37, 2:187, 66:3, 62:9.

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                          huruf
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #395

                          The above is all wrong. Cannot resolve the contradiction with identical language used in 411 and 4176

                          • to the male - alike - fortune - the two females

                          411 ABOVE TWO means two or more since two is mentioned
                          4176 IF TWO means if at least two are present otherwise the case for 3 or more is unknown

                          Therefore, the girls are alone (1/2 or 2/3) in both verses else if mixed each male gets twice that of each female.

                          Algebra has to be used to keep the ratios given proportionate.

                          OK all done here.

                          Peace all.

                          The whole of the two ayas are NOT similarly formulated. There are very noticeable differences.

                          This point has been raised before in the thread.

                          Salaam

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                          • U Offline
                            U Offline
                            unknownuser
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #396

                            Peace,

                            The whole of the two ayas are NOT similarly formulated. There are very noticeable differences.

                            This point has been raised before in the thread.

                            Salaam

                            Yes, saw it now so clearly obvious and precisely stated;
                            the one sister 1/2 or if they are two 2/3 is the case with no brothers in 4176
                            Else if mixed (like it says) then 21 male to female ratio as traditionally observed while 411 revolves around #of females.

                            he directs you God in your CHILDREN
                            to the male equal luck the two females
                            Fa?in ELSE IF they are women Fawqa/above two, so for them two thirds what left/M Taraka,
                            Wa ?In AND IF she was one, so for her the half
                            and to his parents, to each one from them the sixth from what left/Mimm Taraka, if for him was a child
                            Fa?in ELSE IF was not for him a child, and his parents inherited him, so to his mother the third,
                            Fa?in ELSE IF brethren/Ikhwatun were for him, so to his mother the sixth

                            and for you half what left/M Taraka your wives/Azwjukum, if is not for them a child,
                            Fa?in ELSE IF was for them a child, so for you the quarter from what they left/Mimm Tarakna from after a bequest/will
                            and for them the quarter from what you left/Mimm Taraktum, if was not for you a child,
                            Fa?in ELSE IF was for you a child, so for them the eight from what you left/Mimm Taraktum from after a bequest/will
                            Wa ?In AND IF was a Rajulun/man to be inherited Kallatan or a woman-spouse/'AwAmra'atun, and for him a brother, or a sister, so for each one from them the sixth,
                            Fa?in ELSE IF they were more than that, so they are partners in the third

                            They ask your clarification, say "God decrees in Al-Kallati, if human died/'Ini Amru'uun Halaka, not for him a child,
                            and for him a sister, so for her half what left/M Taraka, and he inherits her if was not for her a child,
                            Fa?in ELSE IF they were two, so to them (F) the two thirds from what left/Mimm Taraka,
                            Wa ?In AND IF they were brethren men and women
                            so to the male equal luck the two females,
                            God clarifies for you that you (not) be misguided, and God is with everything knowledgeable.

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                              herbman
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #397

                              Salam, Peace all,

                              can you please help with simple examples.

                              Example 1
                              remains only one spouse with 1 boy and 1 girls

                              Example 2
                              remains only one spouse with 1 boy and 2 girls

                              Example 3
                              remains only one spouse with 1 boy and 3 girls

                              Example 4
                              remains only one spouse with 4 boys and 4 girls

                              Peace

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                              • U Offline
                                U Offline
                                unknownuser
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #398

                                Peace herbman,

                                can you please help with simple examples.

                                Example 1
                                remains only one spouse with 1 boy and 1 girls

                                Example 2
                                remains only one spouse with 1 boy and 2 girls

                                Example 3
                                remains only one spouse with 1 boy and 3 girls

                                Example 4
                                remains only one spouse with 4 boys and 4 girls

                                Use following exactly as stated...

                                411
                                He directs you God in your CHILDREN
                                to the male equal luck the two girls
                                ELSE IF they are girls Fawqa/above two, so for them two thirds what left,
                                AND IF she was one, so for her the half

                                412
                                and for you half what left your wives/Azwjukum, if is not for them a child,
                                ELSE IF was for them a child, so for you the quarter from what they left from after a bequest/will
                                and for them the quarter from what you left, if was not for you a child,
                                ELSE IF was for you a child, so for them the eight from what you left from after a bequest/will

                                Using husband as spouse (remember, for children it revolves around the #of females)...

                                Example 1 remains only one spouse with 1 boy and 1 girl
                                1 - 1/4 husband = 3/4 Children (AND IF she was one, so for her the half )

                                http//www.mathcracker.com/piechartimage.php?data=2/8,%203/8,%203/8&cat=husband,%201%20boy,%201%20girl

                                Example 2 remains only one spouse with 1 boy and 2 girls
                                1 - 1/4 husband = 3/4 Children ( to the male equal luck the two girls)

                                http//www.mathcracker.com/piechartimage.php?data=2/8,%203/8,%203/8&cat=husband,%201%20boy,%202%20girls

                                Example 3 remains only one spouse with 1 boy and 3 girls
                                1 - 1/4 husband = 3/4 Children (ELSE IF they are girls Fawqa/above two, so for them two thirds what left)

                                http//www.mathcracker.com/piechartimage.php?data=1/4,%201/4,%202/4&cat=husband,%201%20boy,%203%20girls

                                Example 4 remains only one spouse with 4 boys and 4 girls
                                1 - 1/4 husband = 3/4 Children (ELSE IF they are girls Fawqa/above two, so for them two thirds what left)

                                http//www.mathcracker.com/piechartimage.php?data=3/12,%203/12,%206/12&cat=husband,%204%20boys,%204%20girls

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                                  herbman
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #399

                                  Peace NunHolidayPseudoEidRex ,

                                  I am sorry for the confusion but it is very informative anyway.
                                  When I was mentionning spouse, I was thinking female spouse (the wife). Does it change anything to the shares?

                                  Thanks

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                                  • U Offline
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                                    unknownuser
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #400

                                    Peace herbman,

                                    Only change it's now 1/8 for the wife and 7/8 for the children divided with same proportions as above...

                                    Example 1 remains only one spouse with 1 boy and 1 girl
                                    1 - 1/8 wife = 7/8 Children (AND IF she was one, so for her the half)

                                    http//www.mathcracker.com/piechartimage.php?data=2/16,%207/16,%207/16&cat=wife,%20boy,%20girl

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                                      you_gunna_eat_that
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #401

                                      Salaam
                                      You guys may have discussed this is in the thread already but here it goes anyway.

                                      http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=10927.0
                                      Bro Ahmed Bagat gives a good response in Reply #4. He basically says...
                                      If you take the verse literally there is no scenario that discusses a parents or wifes sum with more than one child. Yet people assume that they have the flexibility to say the scenario applies to parents say if they have more than one child. This means it is quite easy to justify reproportionalization in complicated situations since the injuctions themselves are left a little open to reflection.

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                                        unknownuser
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #402

                                        Peace,

                                        Salaam
                                        You guys may have discussed this is in the thread already but here it goes anyway.

                                        http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=10927.0
                                        Bro Ahmed Bagat gives a good response in Reply #4. He basically says...
                                        If you take the verse literally there is no scenario that discusses a parents or wifes sum with more than one child. Yet people assume that they have the flexibility to say the scenario applies to parents say if they have more than one child. This means it is quite easy to justify reproportionalization in complicated situations since the injuctions themselves are left a little open to reflection.

                                        Ykumu Allhu F 'Awldikum Lildhdhakari Mithlu a??i Al-'Unthayayni
                                        He directs you God in your CHILDREN (plural possessive pronoun) ? to the male equal fortune the two females

                                        Also want to link these two threads with final summary and template below for future reference...

                                        As already stated, for a sole inheritor there is no need for inheritance ruling, and algebra cannot be applied in all cases. E.g. sole inheritor father, mother, son, sister, or brother ? either unstated or fixed value.

                                        Using algebra, Kalala can be anyone with any shortfall or excess normalized or fixed. Example one can conjecture Kalala means a person under 4 feet tall, someone with blonde hair or whatever?

                                        1 ? 1/6x father ? 1/6x mother - 1/4x wife ? 1/3 siblings ? 2/3x daughters = 0
                                        1 = 2/12x + 2/12x + 3/12x + 4/12x + 8/12x; 1 = 19/12x; x = 12/19
                                        1/612/19 = 2/19 father
                                        1/6
                                        12/19 = 2/19 mother
                                        1/412/19 = 3/19 wife
                                        1/3
                                        12/19 = 4/19 siblings
                                        2/3*12/19 = 8/19 daughters
                                        Total of distributions = 1

                                        The phrase for => 2 (i.e. presence of two or more) is given as?
                                        4176 Fa?in Knat Athnatayni Falahum Ath-Thuluthni Mimm Taraka

                                        Seems to be a way when realizing Fa?in ELSE IF when combined with Wa/Wa ?In logical AND/AND IF statements one can write a program following the exact instructions?

                                        START case CHILDREN
                                        Ykumu Allhu F 'Awldikum Lildhdhakari Mithlu a??i Al-'Unthayayni
                                        He directs you God in your CHILDREN ? to the male equal fortune the two females
                                        2 daughters; 1 son -- 1/4 + 1/4 + 1/2; males get equal share the two females
                                        2 daughters; 2 sons -- 1/6 + 1/6 + 1/3 + 1/3
                                        Fa?in Kunna Nis'an Fawqa Athnatayni Falahunna Thuluth M Taraka
                                        ELSE IF they are women over two, so for them two thirds what left
                                        1 - 2/3 daughters = 1/3 son/s; males get 1/3 when females > 2
                                        Wa ?In Knat Widatan Falah An-Nifu
                                        AND IF she was one, so for her the half
                                        1 - 1/2 daughter = 1/2 son/s; males get 1/2 when she is one

                                        START case PARENTS
                                        Wa Li'abawayhi Likulli Widin Minhum As-Sudusu Mimm Taraka 'In Kna Lahu Waladun
                                        And to his PARENTS, to each one from them the sixth from what left if for him was a child
                                        1 ? 1/6 mother/father = 5/6 CHILDREN
                                        Fa?in Lam Yakun Lahu Waladun Wa Warithahu 'Abawhu Fali'ammihi Ath-Thuluthu
                                        ELSE IF was not for him a child, and his parents inherited him, so to his mother the third
                                        1 ? 1/3 mother = 2/3 father
                                        Fa?in Kna Lahu 'Ikhwatun Fali'ammihi As-Sudusu
                                        ELSE IF Ikhwatun were for him, so to his mother the sixth
                                        1 ? 1/6 mother = 5/6 (Ikhwatun + CHILDREN); see 412 for sibling distribution
                                        1 ? 1/6 mother = 5/6 Ikhwatun; see 4176 for sibling distribution

                                        Min Badi Wayatin Y Bih 'Aw Daynin 'b'uukum Wa 'Abn'uukum L Tadrna 'Ayyuhum 'Aqrabu Lakum Nafan Faratan Mina Allhi 'Inna Allha Kna `Alman akman

                                        START case HUSBAND
                                        Wa Lakum Nifu M Taraka 'Azwjukum 'In Lam Yakun Lahunna Waladun
                                        And for you half what left your spouse, if is not for them a child
                                        1 - 1/2 husband = 1/2 father/mother
                                        Fa?in Kna Lahunna Waladun Falakumu Ar-Rubu`u Mimm Tarakna
                                        ELSE IF was for them a child, so for you the quarter from what they left
                                        1 ? 1/4 husband = 3/4 CHILDREN
                                        1 ? 1/4 husband ? 1/6 father/mother = 7/12 CHILDREN

                                        Min Ba`di Wayatin Yna Bih 'Aw Daynin

                                        START case WIFE
                                        Wa Lahunna Ar-Rubu`u Mimm Taraktum 'In Lam Yakun Lakum Waladun
                                        And for them the quarter from what you left, if was not for you a child
                                        1 ? 1/4 wife = 3/4 parent/s
                                        Fa?in Kna Lakum Waladun Falahunna Ath-Thumunu Mimm Taraktum
                                        ELSE IF was for you a child, so for them the eight from what you left
                                        1 ? 1/8 wife = 7/8 CHILDREN
                                        1 ? 1/8 wife ? 1/3 parents = 13/24 CHILDREN

                                        Min Ba`di Wayatin Tna Bih 'Aw Daynin

                                        START case Kallatan (spouse-less and father-less with child)
                                        Wa ?In Kna Rajulun Yrathu Kallatan 'Aw Amra'atun
                                        AND IF was a man to be inherited Kallatan or a woman
                                        Wa Lahu 'Akhun 'Aw 'Ukhtun Falikulli Widin Minhum As-Sudusu
                                        And for him a brother, or a sister, so for each one from them the sixth
                                        1 ? 1/6 sister/ brother = 5/6 CHILDREN
                                        1 ? 1/6 mother ? 1/6 sister/ brother = 2/3 CHILDREN
                                        Fa?in Kn 'Akthara Min Dhlika Fahum Shurak'u F Ath-Thuluthi
                                        ELSE IF they were more than that, so they are partners in the third
                                        1 ? 1/3 sister/s +brother/s = 2/3 CHILDREN
                                        1 ? 1/6 mother ? 1/3 (sister/s + brother/s) = 1/2 CHILDREN

                                        Min Badi Wayatin Y? Bih 'Aw Daynin Ghayra Murrin Wayatan Mina Allhi Wa Allhu Almun almun

                                        START case Al-Kallati (spouse-less and father-less; no child)
                                        Yastaftnaka Quli Allhu Yuftkum F Al-Kallati 'Ini Amru'uun Halaka Laysa Lahu Waladun
                                        They ask your clarification, say "God decrees in Al-Kallati, if human died, not for him a child
                                        Wa Lahu 'Ukhtun Falah Nifu M Taraka
                                        And for him a sister, so for her half what left
                                        1 - 1/2 sister = 1/2 mother
                                        Wa Huwa Yarithuh 'In Lam Yakun Lah Waladun
                                        And he inherits her if was not for her a child
                                        1 = brother; 0 = mother
                                        Fa?in Knat Athnatayni Falahum Ath-Thuluthni Mimm Taraka
                                        ELSE IF they were two, so to them (F) the two thirds from what left
                                        1 ? 2/3 sisters = 1/3 mother
                                        Wa ?In Kn 'Ikhwatan Rijlan Wa Nis'an Falildhdhakari Mithlu a??i Al-'Unthayayni
                                        AND IF they were 'Ikhwatan Rijlan and Nis'an so to the male equal fortune the two females
                                        1 sister; 1 brother -- 1/3 + 2/3
                                        3 sisters; 2 brothers -- 1/7 + 1/7 + 1/7 + 2/7 + 2/7
                                        1 ? 1/6 mother = 5/6 (sister/s + brother/s); males get equal share the two females

                                        Yubayyinu Allhu Lakum 'An Taill Wa Allhu Bikulli Shay'in `Almun
                                        Clarifies God for you that you are (not) misguided and God is with all things knowledgeable.

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                                        • WakasW Offline
                                          WakasW Offline
                                          Wakas
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #403

                                          peace Nun,

                                          Thanks for your regular input on this subject.

                                          Personally, I have not studied it, but I would like to see an online Quran inheritance calculator one day, where users type in the amount and answer a few questions on their situation, and it works out inheritance shares etc.

                                          Only of course, if it was built upon the correct understanding.

                                          All information is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should always seek knowledge and verify for themselves when possible: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11.

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