Financial responsibility of the children.
-
As salaam alaikim every one
Daud-19 in another thread wanted a thread on the financial responsibility of the children. I too feel it is very important to understand the responsibilities of men as well as women in cases of divorce.
Financial responsibility for the children of a divorced couple along with the maintenance of the estranged wife is stated in the Qur?an but hardly discussed. I would request further input from those who care about this issue.
Best regards
farida -
Salaams farida,
Regarding your question, here are the ayaat that I can think of that deal with the issue. I have some views based from these, but will post them later so that I can take time to contemplate over the ayaat to try to be as clear as I can about what they are saying exactly and what they mean, insha Allah.
Read over them and tell me what you think the answers to your questions are, if you don't mind.
As Salaamu Alaikum, peace
2228
Transliteration Waalmutallaqatu yatarabbasna bi-anfusihinna thalathata quroo-in wala yahillu lahunna an yaktumna ma khalaqa Allahu fee arhamihinna in kunna yu/minna biAllahi waalyawmi al-akhiri wabuAAoolatuhunna ahaqqu biraddihinna fee thalika in aradoo islahan walahunna mithlu allathee AAalayhinna bialmaAAroofi walilrrijali AAalayhinna darajatun waAllahu AAazeezun hakeemun
Literal And the divorced (F) wait with themselves (F) three menstrual cycles , and (it is) not permitted/allowed to them (F) that they (F) hide/conceal what God created in their (F) wombs/uteruses , if they (F) were believing with God, and the Day the Last/Resurrection Day, and their husbands/spouses (are) more worthy/deserving with returning them, in that if they wanted/intended a reconciliation . And for them (F) similar/equal what (is) on them (F) with the kindness/generosity , and to the men a step/stage/grade on them (F), and God (is) glorious/mighty , wise/judicious.
Free-Minds And the divorced women shall wait for three menstruation periods; and it is not lawful for them to conceal what God has created in their wombs, if they believe in God and the Last Day. And their husbands would then have just cause to return together, if they both wish to reconcile. And for what obligations the women are owed, so similarly must they fulfil their obligations. But the men will have a greater responsibility over them in this. And God is Noble, Wise.
Rashad Khalifa The divorced women shall wait three menstruations (before marrying another man). It is not lawful for them to conceal what GOD creates in their wombs, if they believe in GOD and the Last Day. (In case of pregnancy,) the husband's wishes shall supersede the wife's wishes, if he wants to remarry her. The women have rights, as well as obligations, equitably. Thus, the man's wishes prevail (in case of pregnancy). GOD is Almighty, Most Wise.
Yusuf Ali Divorced women shall wait concerning themselves for three monthly periods. Nor is it lawful for them to hide what Allah Hath created in their wombs, if they have faith in Allah and the Last Day. And their husbands have the better right to take them back in that period, if they wish for reconciliation. And women shall have rights similar to the rights against them, according to what is equitable; but men have a degree (of advantage) over them. And Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise.2233
Transliteration Waalwalidatu yurdiAAna awladahunna hawlayni kamilayni liman arada an yutimma alrradaAAata waAAala almawloodi lahu rizquhunna wakiswatuhunna bialmaAAroofi la tukallafu nafsun illa wusAAaha la tudarra walidatun biwaladiha wala mawloodun lahu biwaladihi waAAala alwarithi mithlu thalika fa-in arada fisalan AAan taradin minhuma watashawurin fala junaha AAalayhima wa-in aradtum an tastardiAAoo awladakum fala junaha AAalaykum itha sallamtum ma ataytum bialmaAAroofi waittaqoo Allaha waiAAlamoo anna Allaha bima taAAmaloona baseerun
Literal And the mothers breast feed their children two years complete, to who wanted/intended that (to) complete the lactation/breast feeding period, and on the born to him/father, (is the responsibility of) their provision (F) and their dressing/clothing (F) with the kindness/generosity , (that) no self be burdened/imposed upon except its endurance/capacity , no mother (is) to be harmed with her child, and nor a born to him/father (be harmed) with his child. And on the heir/inharitant similar/equal (to) that, so if they (B) wanted separation (weaning) on acceptance/approval from them (B), and discussion/consultation , so no offense/guilt/sin on them (B), and if you willed/wanted that to seek a wet nurse/breast feeder (for) your children, so no offense/guilt/sin on you if you handed/delivered over what you gave with the kindness/generosity , and fear and obey God, and know that God (is) with what you make/do seeing/knowing/understanding.
Free-Minds And the divorced mothers are allowed to suckle their children two full years, if they wish to complete the suckling. And the man for whom the child is born is responsible for both their provisions and clothing equitably. We do not burden a soul beyond its means. No mother shall be harmed because of her child, nor shall a father be harmed because of his child. And for the guardian is the same requirement. So if they wish to separate out of mutual agreement and council, then there is no sin upon them. And if you want to hire nursing mothers, then there is no sin upon you if you return what you have been given equitably. And be aware of God, and know that God is watching over what you do.
Rashad Khalifa Divorced mothers shall nurse their infants two full years, if the father so wishes. The father shall provide the mother's food and clothing equitably. No one shall be burdened beyond his ability. No mother shall be harmed on account of her infant, nor shall the father be harmed because of his infant. (If the father dies), his inheritor shall assume these responsibilities. If the infant's parents mutually agree to part, after due consultation, they commit no error by doing so. You commit no error by hiring nursing mothers, so long as you pay them equitably. You shall observe GOD, and know that GOD is Seer of everything you do.
Yusuf Ali The mothers shall give such to their offspring for two whole years, if the father desires to complete the term. But he shall bear the cost of their food and clothing on equitable terms. No soul shall have a burden laid on it greater than it can bear. No mother shall be Treated unfairly on account of her child. Nor father on account of his child, an heir shall be chargeable in the same way. If they both decide on weaning, by mutual consent, and after due consultation, there is no blame on them. If ye decide on a foster-mother for your offspring, there is no blame on you, provided ye pay (the mother) what ye offered, on equitable terms. But fear Allah and know that Allah sees well what ye do.651
Transliteration Ya ayyuha alnnabiyyu itha tallaqtumu alnnisaa fatalliqoohunna liAAiddatihinna waahsoo alAAiddata waittaqoo Allaha rabbakum la tukhrijoohunna min buyootihinna wala yakhrujna illa an ya/teena bifahishatin mubayyinatin watilka hudoodu Allahi waman yataAAadda hudooda Allahi faqad thalama nafsahu la tadree laAAalla Allaha yuhdithu baAAda thalika amran
Literal You, you the prophet, if you divorced the women, so divorce them (F) to their term (F), and count/calculate the menstrual cycle/term and fear and obey God, your Lord, do not bring them out from their (F) houses/homes, and they (F) do not get out except that they do/commit with an evident enormous/atrocious deed , and those are God's limits/boundaries/orders, and who transgresses/violates God's limits/boundaries/orders, so he had caused injustice/oppression (to) his self, you do not know, maybe/perhaps God initiates/causes after that a matter/affair (event) .
Free-Minds O you prophet, if any of you have divorced the women, then they should be divorced while ensuring that their required interim is fulfilled, and keep count of the interim. You shall reverence God your Lord, and do not evict the women from their homes, nor should they leave, unless they have committed a proven adultery. And these are God's limits. And anyone who transgresses God's limits has wronged his soul. You never know; perhaps God will make something come out of this.
Rashad Khalifa O you prophet, when you people divorce the women, you shall ensure that a divorce interim is fulfilled. You shall measure such an interim precisely. You shall reverence GOD your Lord. Do not evict them from their homes, nor shall you make life miserable for them, to force them to leave on their own, unless they commit a proven adultery. These are GOD's laws. Anyone who transgresses GOD's laws commits an injustice against himself. You never know; maybe GOD wills something good to come out of this.
Yusuf Ali O Prophet! When ye do divorce women, divorce them at their prescribed periods, and count (accurately), their prescribed periods And fear Allah your Lord and turn them not out of their houses, nor shall they (themselves) leave, except in case they are guilty of some open lewdness, those are limits set by Allah and any who transgresses the limits of Allah, does verily wrong his (own) soul thou knowest not if perchance Allah will bring about thereafter some new situation.652
Transliteration Fa-itha balaghna ajalahunna faamsikoohunna bimaAAroofin aw fariqoohunna bimaAAroofin waashhidoo thaway AAadlin minkum waaqeemoo alshshahadata lillahi thalikum yooAAathu bihi man kana yu/minu biAllahi waalyawmi al-akhiri waman yattaqi Allaha yajAAal lahu makhrajan
Literal So if they (F) reached (completed) their term/time, so hold/grasp them (F) with kindness/generosity or separate from them (F) with kindness/generosity , and call a witness (two owners) (B) of justice/equality from you, and keep up/take care of the testimony/certification to God, that is being preached/advised/warned with it who was believing with (in) God, and the Day the Last/Resurrection Day; and who fears and obeys God, He makes/puts for him a way out/exit.
Free-Minds Then, once the interim is fulfilled, either you remain together equitably, or part ways equitably and have it witnessed by two just people from among you; and give the testimony for God. This is to enlighten those who believe in God and the Last Day. And whosoever reverences God, He will create a solution for him.
Rashad Khalifa Once the interim is fulfilled, you may reconcile with them equitably, or go through with the separation equitably. You shall have two equitable witnesses witness the divorce before GOD. This is to enlighten those who believe in GOD and the Last Day. Anyone who reverences GOD, He will create an exit for him.
Yusuf Ali Thus when they fulfil their term appointed, either take them back on equitable terms or part with them on equitable terms; and take for witness two persons from among you, endued with justice, and establish the evidence (as) before Allah. Such is the admonition given to him who believes in Allah and the Last Day. And for those who fear Allah, He (ever) prepares a way out,653
Transliteration Wayarzuqhu min haythu la yahtasibu waman yatawakkal AAala Allahi fahuwa hasbuhu inna Allaha balighu amrihi qad jaAAala Allahu likulli shay-in qadran
Literal And He provides for him from where/when he does not think/suppose, and who relies/depends on God, so He is enough for him, that truly God (is) delivering/accomplishing His order/command , God had made/put to every thing a predestiny/quantity/value.
Free-Minds And He will provide for him whence he never expected. Anyone who puts his trust in God, then He suffices him. God's commands will be done. God has decreed for everything its fate.
Rashad Khalifa And will provide for him whence he never expected. Anyone who trusts in GOD, He suffices him. GOD's commands are done. GOD has decreed for everything its fate.
Yusuf Ali And He provides for him from (sources) he never could imagine. And if any one puts his trust in Allah, sufficient is (Allah) for him. For Allah will surely accomplish his purpose verily, for all things has Allah appointed a due proportion.654
Transliteration Waalla-ee ya-isna mina almaheedi min nisa-ikum ini irtabtum faAAiddatuhunna thalathatu ashhurin waalla-ee lam yahidna waolatu al-ahmali ajaluhunna an yadaAAna hamlahunna waman yattaqi Allaha yajAAal lahu min amrihi yusran
Literal And those (F) who became infertile/despaired from the menstruation from your women, if you became doubtful/suspicious, so their term/count (is) three months, and those (F) who did not menstruate, and (those) of the pregnant , their term/time (is) that (E) they (F) give birth/drop their (F) off spring/loads/pregnancies , and who fears and obeys God, He makes/puts from his matter/affair ease/flexibility.
Free-Minds As for the women who have reached menopause, if you have any doubts, their interim shall be three months. And as for those whose menstruation has ceased, and those who are already pregnant, their interim is until they give birth. And anyone who reverences God, He makes his matters easy for him.
Rashad Khalifa As for the women who have reached menopause, if you have any doubts, their interim shall be three months. As for those who do not menstruate, and discover that they are pregnant, their interim ends upon giving birth. Anyone who reverences GOD, He makes everything easy for him.
Yusuf Ali Such of your women as have passed the age of monthly courses, for them the prescribed period, if ye have any doubts, is three months, and for those who have no courses (it is the same) for those who carry (life within their wombs), their period is until they deliver their burdens and for those who fear Allah, He will make their path easy.655
Transliteration Thalika amru Allahi anzalahu ilaykum waman yattaqi Allaha yukaffir AAanhu sayyi-atihi wayuAAthim lahu ajran
Literal That (is) God's order/command, He descended it to you, and who fears and obeys God, He covers/substitutes from him his sins/crimes and He magnifies for him a reward .
Free-Minds This is God's command that He sends down to you. And anyone who is aware of God, He will remit his sins, and will improve his reward.
Rashad Khalifa This is GOD's command that He sends down to you. Anyone who reverences GOD, He remits his sins, and rewards him generously.
Yusuf Ali That is the Command of Allah, which He has sent down to you and if any one fears Allah, He will remove his ills, from him, and will enlarge his reward.656
Transliteration Askinoohunna min haythu sakantum min wujdikum wala tudarroohunna litudayyiqoo AAalayhinna wa-in kunna olati hamlin faanfiqoo AAalayhinna hatta yadaAAna hamlahunna fa-in ardaAAna lakum faatoohunna ojoorahunna wa/tamiroo baynakum bimaAAroofin wa-in taAAasartum fasaturdiAAu lahu okhra
Literal Reside/make them (F) live from where you resided from your wealth/capability , and do not harm them (F) to tighten/strain on them (F), and if they (F) were of pregnancy so spend on them until they give birth/drop their loads/off spring/pregnancy , so if they (F) breast fed for you (wet nursed), so give/bring them their (F) rewards , and consult each other, between you with kindness/generosity , and if you had difficulty/hardship , so another will breast feed (wet nurse) for him.
Free-Minds You shall let them reside in the home you were in when you were together, and do not coerce them to make them leave. And if they are pregnant, you shall spend on them until they give birth. Then, if they nurse the infant, you shall pay them their due for such. And you shall maintain the amicable relations between you. If you disagree, then another woman may nurse the child.
Rashad Khalifa You shall allow them to live in the same home in which they lived with you, and do not make life so miserable for them that they leave on their own. If they are pregnant, you shall spend on them until they give birth. If they nurse the infant, you shall pay them for this service. You shall maintain the amicable relations among you. If you disagree, you may hire another woman to nurse the child
Yusuf Ali Let the women live (in 'iddat) in the same style as ye live, according to your means Annoy them not, so as to restrict them. And if they carry (life in their wombs), then spend (your substance) on them until they deliver their burden and if they suckle your (offspring), give them their recompense and take mutual counsel together, according to what is just and reasonable. And if ye find yourselves in difficulties, let another woman suckle (the child) on the (father's) behalf.657
Transliteration Liyunfiq thoo saAAatin min saAAatihi waman qudira AAalayhi rizquhu falyunfiq mimma atahu Allahu la yukallifu Allahu nafsan illa ma ataha sayajAAalu Allahu baAAda AAusrin yusran
Literal (The owner) of a wealth/abundance (is) to spend from his wealth/abundance, and whom his provision was tightened/strained on him, so he should spend from what God gave him, God does not burden/impose (on) a self except what He gave it, God will make/create after difficulty/hardship , ease/flexibility.
Free-Minds The rich shall provide support in accordance with his means, and the poor shall provide according to the means that God bestowed upon him. God does not burden any soul more than He has given it. God will provide ease after difficulty.
Rashad Khalifa The rich husband shall provide support in accordance with his means, and the poor shall provide according to the means that GOD bestowed upon him. GOD does not impose on any soul more than He has given it. GOD will provide ease after difficulty.
Yusuf Ali Let the man of means spend according to his means and the man whose resources are restricted, let him spend according to what Allah has given him. Allah puts no burden on any person beyond what He has given him. After a difficulty, Allah will soon grant relief. -
Salaams farida,
Regarding your question, here are the ayaat that I can think of that deal with the issue. I have some views based from these, but will post them later so that I can take time to contemplate over the ayaat to try to be as clear as I can about what they are saying exactly and what they mean, insha Allah.
Read over them and tell me what you think the answers to your questions are, if you don't mind.
As Salaamu Alaikum, peace
]Free-Minds And the divorced mothers are allowed to suckle their children two full years, if they wish to complete the suckling. And the man for whom the child is born is responsible for both their provisions and clothing equitably. We do not burden a soul beyond its means. No mother shall be harmed because of her child, nor shall a father be harmed because of his child. And for the guardian is the same requirement. So if they wish to separate out of mutual agreement and council, then there is no sin upon them. And if you want to hire nursing mothers, then there is no sin upon you if you return what you have been given equitably. And be aware of God, and know that God is watching over what you do.
Rashad Khalifa Divorced mothers shall nurse their infants two full years, if the father so wishes. The father shall provide the mother's food and clothing equitably. No one shall be burdened beyond his ability. No mother shall be harmed on account of her infant, nor shall the father be harmed because of his infant. (If the father dies), his inheritor shall assume these responsibilities. If the infant's parents mutually agree to part, after due consultation, they commit no error by doing so. You commit no error by hiring nursing mothers, so long as you pay them equitably. You shall observe GOD, and know that GOD is Seer of everything you do.
Yusuf Ali The mothers shall give such to their offspring for two whole years, if the father desires to complete the term. But he shall bear the cost of their food and clothing on equitable terms. No soul shall have a burden laid on it greater than it can bear. No mother shall be Treated unfairly on account of her child. Nor father on account of his child, an heir shall be chargeable in the same way. If they both decide on weaning, by mutual consent, and after due consultation, there is no blame on them. If ye decide on a foster-mother for your offspring, there is no blame on you, provided ye pay (the mother) what ye offered, on equitable terms. But fear Allah and know that Allah sees well what ye do.651
Transliteration Ya ayyuha alnnabiyyu itha tallaqtumu alnnisaa fatalliqoohunna liAAiddatihinna waahsoo alAAiddata waittaqoo Allaha rabbakum la tukhrijoohunna min buyootihinna wala yakhrujna illa an ya/teena bifahishatin mubayyinatin watilka hudoodu Allahi waman yataAAadda hudooda Allahi faqad thalama nafsahu la tadree laAAalla Allaha yuhdithu baAAda thalika amran
Literal You, you the prophet, if you divorced the women, so divorce them (F) to their term (F), and count/calculate the menstrual cycle/term and fear and obey God, your Lord, do not bring them out from their (F) houses/homes, and they (F) do not get out except that they do/commit with an evident enormous/atrocious deed , and those are God's limits/boundaries/orders, and who transgresses/violates God's limits/boundaries/orders, so he had caused injustice/oppression (to) his self, you do not know, maybe/perhaps God initiates/causes after that a matter/affair (event) .
Free-Minds O you prophet, if any of you have divorced the women, then they should be divorced while ensuring that their required interim is fulfilled, and keep count of the interim. You shall reverence God your Lord, and do not evict the women from their homes, nor should they leave, unless they have committed a proven adultery. And these are God's limits. And anyone who transgresses God's limits has wronged his soul. You never know; perhaps God will make something come out of this.
Rashad Khalifa O you prophet, when you people divorce the women, you shall ensure that a divorce interim is fulfilled. You shall measure such an interim precisely. You shall reverence GOD your Lord. Do not evict them from their homes, nor shall you make life miserable for them, to force them to leave on their own, unless they commit a proven adultery. These are GOD's laws. Anyone who transgresses GOD's laws commits an injustice against himself. You never know; maybe GOD wills something good to come out of this.
Yusuf Ali O Prophet! When ye do divorce women, divorce them at their prescribed periods, and count (accurately), their prescribed periods And fear Allah your Lord and turn them not out of their houses, nor shall they (themselves) leave, except in case they are guilty of some open lewdness, those are limits set by Allah and any who transgresses the limits of Allah, does verily wrong his (own) soul thou knowest not if perchance Allah will bring about thereafter some new situation.652
Transliteration Fa-itha balaghna ajalahunna faamsikoohunna bimaAAroofin aw fariqoohunna bimaAAroofin waashhidoo thaway AAadlin minkum waaqeemoo alshshahadata lillahi thalikum yooAAathu bihi man kana yu/minu biAllahi waalyawmi al-akhiri waman yattaqi Allaha yajAAal lahu makhrajan
Literal So if they (F) reached (completed) their term/time, so hold/grasp them (F) with kindness/generosity or separate from them (F) with kindness/generosity , and call a witness (two owners) (B) of justice/equality from you, and keep up/take care of the testimony/certification to God, that is being preached/advised/warned with it who was believing with (in) God, and the Day the Last/Resurrection Day; and who fears and obeys God, He makes/puts for him a way out/exit.
Free-Minds Then, once the interim is fulfilled, either you remain together equitably, or part ways equitably and have it witnessed by two just people from among you; and give the testimony for God. This is to enlighten those who believe in God and the Last Day. And whosoever reverences God, He will create a solution for him.
Rashad Khalifa Once the interim is fulfilled, you may reconcile with them equitably, or go through with the separation equitably. You shall have two equitable witnesses witness the divorce before GOD. This is to enlighten those who believe in GOD and the Last Day. Anyone who reverences GOD, He will create an exit for him.
Yusuf Ali Thus when they fulfil their term appointed, either take them back on equitable terms or part with them on equitable terms; and take for witness two persons from among you, endued with justice, and establish the evidence (as) before Allah. Such is the admonition given to him who believes in Allah and the Last Day. And for those who fear Allah, He (ever) prepares a way out,653
Transliteration Wayarzuqhu min haythu la yahtasibu waman yatawakkal AAala Allahi fahuwa hasbuhu inna Allaha balighu amrihi qad jaAAala Allahu likulli shay-in qadran
Literal And He provides for him from where/when he does not think/suppose, and who relies/depends on God, so He is enough for him, that truly God (is) delivering/accomplishing His order/command , God had made/put to every thing a predestiny/quantity/value.
Free-Minds And He will provide for him whence he never expected. Anyone who puts his trust in God, then He suffices him. God's commands will be done. God has decreed for everything its fate.
Rashad Khalifa And will provide for him whence he never expected. Anyone who trusts in GOD, He suffices him. GOD's commands are done. GOD has decreed for everything its fate.
Yusuf Ali And He provides for him from (sources) he never could imagine. And if any one puts his trust in Allah, sufficient is (Allah) for him. For Allah will surely accomplish his purpose verily, for all things has Allah appointed a due proportion.654
Transliteration Waalla-ee ya-isna mina almaheedi min nisa-ikum ini irtabtum faAAiddatuhunna thalathatu ashhurin waalla-ee lam yahidna waolatu al-ahmali ajaluhunna an yadaAAna hamlahunna waman yattaqi Allaha yajAAal lahu min amrihi yusran
Literal And those (F) who became infertile/despaired from the menstruation from your women, if you became doubtful/suspicious, so their term/count (is) three months, and those (F) who did not menstruate, and (those) of the pregnant , their term/time (is) that (E) they (F) give birth/drop their (F) off spring/loads/pregnancies , and who fears and obeys God, He makes/puts from his matter/affair ease/flexibility.
Free-Minds As for the women who have reached menopause, if you have any doubts, their interim shall be three months. And as for those whose menstruation has ceased, and those who are already pregnant, their interim is until they give birth. And anyone who reverences God, He makes his matters easy for him.
Rashad Khalifa As for the women who have reached menopause, if you have any doubts, their interim shall be three months. As for those who do not menstruate, and discover that they are pregnant, their interim ends upon giving birth. Anyone who reverences GOD, He makes everything easy for him.
Yusuf Ali Such of your women as have passed the age of monthly courses, for them the prescribed period, if ye have any doubts, is three months, and for those who have no courses (it is the same) for those who carry (life within their wombs), their period is until they deliver their burdens and for those who fear Allah, He will make their path easy.655
Transliteration Thalika amru Allahi anzalahu ilaykum waman yattaqi Allaha yukaffir AAanhu sayyi-atihi wayuAAthim lahu ajran
Literal That (is) God's order/command, He descended it to you, and who fears and obeys God, He covers/substitutes from him his sins/crimes and He magnifies for him a reward .
Free-Minds This is God's command that He sends down to you. And anyone who is aware of God, He will remit his sins, and will improve his reward.
Rashad Khalifa This is GOD's command that He sends down to you. Anyone who reverences GOD, He remits his sins, and rewards him generously.
Yusuf Ali That is the Command of Allah, which He has sent down to you and if any one fears Allah, He will remove his ills, from him, and will enlarge his reward.656
Transliteration Askinoohunna min haythu sakantum min wujdikum wala tudarroohunna litudayyiqoo AAalayhinna wa-in kunna olati hamlin faanfiqoo AAalayhinna hatta yadaAAna hamlahunna fa-in ardaAAna lakum faatoohunna ojoorahunna wa/tamiroo baynakum bimaAAroofin wa-in taAAasartum fasaturdiAAu lahu okhra
Literal Reside/make them (F) live from where you resided from your wealth/capability , and do not harm them (F) to tighten/strain on them (F), and if they (F) were of pregnancy so spend on them until they give birth/drop their loads/off spring/pregnancy , so if they (F) breast fed for you (wet nursed), so give/bring them their (F) rewards , and consult each other, between you with kindness/generosity , and if you had difficulty/hardship , so another will breast feed (wet nurse) for him.
Free-Minds You shall let them reside in the home you were in when you were together, and do not coerce them to make them leave. And if they are pregnant, you shall spend on them until they give birth. Then, if they nurse the infant, you shall pay them their due for such. And you shall maintain the amicable relations between you. If you disagree, then another woman may nurse the child.
Rashad Khalifa You shall allow them to live in the same home in which they lived with you, and do not make life so miserable for them that they leave on their own. If they are pregnant, you shall spend on them until they give birth. If they nurse the infant, you shall pay them for this service. You shall maintain the amicable relations among you. If you disagree, you may hire another woman to nurse the child
Yusuf Ali Let the women live (in 'iddat) in the same style as ye live, according to your means Annoy them not, so as to restrict them. And if they carry (life in their wombs), then spend (your substance) on them until they deliver their burden and if they suckle your (offspring), give them their recompense and take mutual counsel together, according to what is just and reasonable. And if ye find yourselves in difficulties, let another woman suckle (the child) on the (father's) behalf.657
Transliteration Liyunfiq thoo saAAatin min saAAatihi waman qudira AAalayhi rizquhu falyunfiq mimma atahu Allahu la yukallifu Allahu nafsan illa ma ataha sayajAAalu Allahu baAAda AAusrin yusran
Literal (The owner) of a wealth/abundance (is) to spend from his wealth/abundance, and whom his provision was tightened/strained on him, so he should spend from what God gave him, God does not burden/impose (on) a self except what He gave it, God will make/create after difficulty/hardship , ease/flexibility.
Free-Minds The rich shall provide support in accordance with his means, and the poor shall provide according to the means that God bestowed upon him. God does not burden any soul more than He has given it. God will provide ease after difficulty.
Rashad Khalifa The rich husband shall provide support in accordance with his means, and the poor shall provide according to the means that GOD bestowed upon him. GOD does not impose on any soul more than He has given it. GOD will provide ease after difficulty.
Yusuf Ali Let the man of means spend according to his means and the man whose resources are restricted, let him spend according to what Allah has given him. Allah puts no burden on any person beyond what He has given him. After a difficulty, Allah will soon grant relief.As Salaamu Aleikum
Happy New Year every one! This is the first thing I am doing at the start of year 2008.
Brother IQO, if you need time to contemplate, you can imagine how much more time I would need time to absorbe it further I need to understand in depth the list of surahs given here. But for now we are discussing financial responsibility of children only, so I would not discuss divorce procedures for now.First of all, both parents should mutully decide about the maintance of the children and the father has financial responsibility for the children, as long as the mother is looking after them and has to provide maintenance and accommodation for the ex wife too, until she remarries. I look forward to further contribution on this subject.
My first yell of 2008 is to Samia, and Huruf and all; please help me out, as to me it seems to be quite similar to English matrimonial law.Best wishes for 2008
farida -
Salaam,
I see, Farida, that you are quite determined to keep us working no matter what.
So, here I come, with no answers, but some questions.
My understanding, from the qur'an is that in principle, the father must cover all reasonable expenses of his children for a standing similar to his and for the mother as well is she is taking care of the children. If she remarries, wouldn't she still be taking care of the children of her previous husband? Why should she rely in that proportion on the upkeep from her new husband.
Also, if a woman is divorced and dedicates herself full time to her children, and doesn't take up a job because of that and when she older she cannot have a job or a job that would pay comparatively as much if she had been working up till then, will she be left with no income? Since many people think that it would be much better that women didn't work (for money) and dedicate themselves to the children (the home) I wonder who is going to pay for that.
I am afraid that this line will giver rise to many questions, but I suppose also that they must be faced.
Salaam
-
As Salaamu Aleikum
Wa Alaikum as salaam,
Happy New Year every one! This is the first thing I am doing at the start of year 2008.
Happy New Year to you also! See the Happy New Year thread! yay Same here, no pun intended!
Brother IQO, if you need time to contemplate, you can imagine how much more time I would need time to absorbe it further I need to understand in depth the list of surahs given here. But for now we are discussing financial responsibility of children only, so I would not discuss divorce procedures for now.
The ayaat that I include are not designed to focus on the procedures for divorce, although it may appear that way. But based on your request which I put again below, the issue is about maintenance and financial responsibility of children and women after divorce; therefore the divorce ayaat will be applicable
Daud-19 in another thread wanted a thread on the financial responsibility of the children. I too feel it is very important to understand the responsibilities of men as well as women in cases of divorce.
Financial responsibility for the children of a divorced couple along with the maintenance of the estranged wife is stated in the Qur?an but hardly discussed. I would request further input from those who care about this issue.
First of all, both parents should mutully decide about the maintance of the children and the father has financial responsibility for the children, as long as the mother is looking after them and has to provide maintenance and accommodation for the ex wife too, until she remarries.
I would say that ayat 233 would limit this until the two years of giving suck to the child, if they, and some say "the father", desires to complete the term. Then it says that "he" shall bear the cost of that for their food and clothing with kindness/generosity. They both have to rigth to decide to wean the child "early", also is what the ayat seems to point to, meaning that if there is no breast feeding, then no maintenance "seems" to go with it.
If they decided on a wet nurse, then the payment seems to go to her for whatever is agreed upon for that service, not the mother. Again showing that the maintenance is for the benefit of the child mostly, not the mother.
Also, in ayat 651, the implication is that women should stay in the homes with their husbands while in their period of "iddah" thus suggesting that after it is over, they are the ones to be leaving, not the man....since if he has been the maintainer and provider, it is his to begin with. This indicates the importance of the marriage gift so that the woman has some means for herself in case of divorce. This also points to why Allah stresses that a man can not take back any of it through harm or lying, even if he had given her a very large treasure; because it is her security blanket. This also points to why when divorcing, sides from both of their families should be involved, as very likely the woman will need a place to stay.
Again the stressing in the ayaat are on the woman's term to stay in the house, be it by the number of her monthly periods, or until she gives birth. Ayat 656 again stresses this by saying let them live with you in the same manner that you are living, and to spend on them until they give birth and then after weaning; which when coupled with 2233 could also be extended until they stop the weaning period.
The clear command that if you disagree, that another will breast feed for him, i.e. a wet nurse for the child paid for by the man, clearly suggests that the man will RETAIN custody of the children! There is no need for the women who can breast feed herself to have a wet nurse because they disagree. One could say that she has some medical need for a wet nurse, but that is not covered or dealt with here. The clear reason for using a wet nurse here is if they disagree, implying that they are having some difficulty in still living together after the divorce during the weaning period.
Whether women or society like it or not, Allah clearly seems to be giving the man, maintainer and provider, the responsibility for the new born and CUSTODY of the offspring as well, IMHO. I see no indication in any of the ayaat mentioned that say or would indicate any maintence for the divorced wife beyond the gifts given to here at marriage and shelter, clothing and food provided during iddah, possible pregnancy and breast feeding through weaning of the child. This is indicated to be done in the man's household, and if they have problems with this arrangement, then the man can hire a wet nurse to care for the child and the woman leaves.
I will continue to look for more ayat that may add to this, or to see if I am misunderstanding anything. For most certainly women will HATE this type of interpretation to come from Al Quran.
I look forward to further contribution on this subject.
My first yell of 2008 is to Samia, and Huruf and all; please help me out, as to me it seems to be quite similar to English matrimonial law.Best wishes for 2008
faridaI look forward to other's contribution on this subject as well. Certainly opposing viewpoints will be presented, I just hope that they are Quranic based if they can be proven. So let all who have an interest add to the discuss, Allah willing. I hardly see Quranic divorce and maintence law as anything similar to English matrimonial law.
As Salaamu Alaikum, peace
-
Salaam,
I see, Farida, that you are quite determined to keep us working no matter what.
So, here I come, with no answers, but some questions.
? Why should she rely in that proportion on the upkeep from her new husband.
Also, if a woman is divorced and dedicates herself full time to her children, and doesn't take up a job because of that and when she older she cannot have a job or a job that would pay comparatively as much if she had been working up till then, will she be left with no income? .
I am afraid that this line will giver rise to many questions, but I suppose also that they must be faced.
Salaam
Salaam Huruf
Well we all have to keep on working until it becomes evident to everyone what greater responsibility has been entrusted in us.
We have offered the trust to the heavens and the Earth, and the mountains, but they refused to bear it, and were fearful of it. But the human being accepted it; he was transgressing, ignorant.
Salaam Bro IQO
My intention too is to discuss those situations where, as in most cases, the children want to stay with mother. The mother looks after the children but father resent giving maintenance to the children.
Islamically it has been assumed that once a man divorces his wife all he needs to do is give her the dower and that is the end of it. However Surah 656 & 7 show that the man is also required to provide accommodation and support for his ex wife, I don?t see Iddat mentioned here.
My understanding is that, if the father is unable to bring up children and, even if the mother remarries; the father must provide financial support for his children (only), for as long as the mother is looking after them. Also he is required to provide for his ex-wife, for the time that she remains single; all according to his means.The similarity with English law is that the welfare of the children is the main concern
I look forward to good understanding of all issues involved
Best regards
farida -
Salaam Bro IQO
Wa Salaam sister farida,
My intention too is to discuss those situations where, as in most cases, the children want to stay with mother. The mother looks after the children but father resent giving maintenance to the children.
Especially with young children, I don't see that the children have a right to decide who they want to stay with BASED FROM AL QURAN. Based from the logic of the ayaat that I already quoted and referenced, I don't see that the man is charged with providing maintence to a divorced wife beyond the weaning of a child, and that is only if she is still staying in his house and taking care of the child.
Many, if not most cases of divorce that involve children probably include younger children these days since the rate of divorce seems to be increasingly early in the marriage relationship among people today, especially among monogamous ones. What we "feel" are right and wrong again have no bearing on what Allah gives us as guidance in Al Quran. So we should not be basing our discussion on the cases where the children want to stay with the mother, but rather what does Al Quran's guidance say about any and all cases.
Islamically it has been assumed that once a man divorces his wife all he needs to do is give her the dower and that is the end of it. However Surah 656 & 7 show that the man is also required to provide accommodation and support for his ex wife, I don?t see Iddat mentioned here.
If by islamically you mean sunnism, etc.; we don't give that much credibility here. So let's try to focus on what Al Quran says about the situation specifically.
You have to read the first 7 ayaat together, because clearly they are. The main subject matter is that of how to handle iddat. How do you see it otherwise?
My understanding is that, if the father is unable to bring up children and, even if the mother remarries; the father must provide financial support for his children (only), for as long as the mother is looking after them. Also he is required to provide for his ex-wife, for the time that she remains single; all according to his means.
Can you show from Al Quran exactly which ayaat or what words translation or otherwise give you the impression that you have? Or is it based from some other ideas or understandings?
Can you provide any evidence for all of your ascertions here based from Al Quran?
The similarity with English law is that the welfare of the children is the main concern
I look forward to good understanding of all issues involved
Best regards
faridaI don't see that the welfare of the children is concerned regarding English law. English law seems primarily worried about money for the ex-wife/mother. If the children's welfare were the primary concern, the primary responsibility of the law would be insuring that the kids spend time with both parents. More much emphasis is put on financial support than emotional support of the children. And we all know that the finances are used by the mother primarily to get her hair done so that she can show it off without khimaar. rotfl (sorry, could't resist )
In Al Quran, it seems to be stressing that men maintain the kids and continue their role of being the maintainer and provide, while women leave after divorce and no hardship is placed on them in anyway. Of course it will be hard for either parent to be away from their child, but that is a result of divorce no matter what. Allah gives the man a degree above the woman in regards to this aspect of disolving a marriage. That's just the way it is in Al Quran no matter what society or others feel personally. Unless you can show me other Quranic evidence to suggest otherwise.
As Salaamu Alaikum, angel
-
Wa Salaam sister farida,
Can you show from Al Quran exactly which ayaat or what words translation or otherwise give you the impression that you have? Or is it based from some other ideas or understandings?
Can you provide any evidence for all of your ascertions here based from Al Quran?
English law seems primarily worried about money for the ex-wife/mother. If the children's welfare were the primary
That's just the way it is in Al Quran no matter what society or others feel personally. Unless you can show me other Quranic evidence to suggest otherwise.As Salaamu Alaikum, angel
As Salaamu Alaikum IQO
Especially with young children, I don't see that the children have a right to decide who they want to stay with BASED FROM AL QURAN
I did not say that children have the right to decide and, as I said earlier, the parents are supposed to come to an agreement regarding the children.
Many, if not most cases of divorce that involve children probably include younger children these days since the rate of divorce seems to be increasingly early in the marriage relationship among people today
It?s very complex now and not only young but middle age couple are divorcing as their marriage become stale.
So we should not be basing our discussion on the cases where the children want to stay with the mother, but rather what does Al Quran's guidance say about any and all cases. It is important to apply the Quranic laws to real cases so we can find a solution to this very dirty side of life. The laws were given to us to be used in real life situations, not to make them a subject of debate, nor boasting.If by islamically you mean sunnism, etc
By Islamically I meant those who profess to know more about Islam.
And we all know that the finances are used by the mother primarily to get her hair done so that she can show it off without khimaar. rotfl (sorry, could't resist
'(Very sad to know that on your side of the world mums are using maintenance finance primarily to get her hair done so that she can show it off without khimaar. In my experience with muslim mothers they?re struggling with little money available, the child support agencies chasing the father in vain.
In Al Quran, it seems to be stressing that men maintain the kids and continue their role of being the maintainer and provide, while women leave after divorce and no hardship is placed on them in anyway
.This is the ideal situation and I would welcome this and ask mothers to leave this task to their divorced husband but, sadly Muslim men seem to run away from this responsibility, unless there is an old mother, or some one else in the family, willing to take on the kids.
Allah gives the man a degree above the woman
If I was a believing man, and I really feared God, I would not boast about a degree of advantage, but rather view it as a responsibility with greater trust, as the surah below exprsses
?We have offered the trust to the heavens and the Earth, and the mountains, but they refused to bear it, and were fearful of it. But the human being accepted it; he was transgressing, ignorant.?
And I would be more fearful since this duty of trust involves an extremely high responsibility, especially given the degree of advantage.You have to read the first 7 ayaat together, because clearly they are. The main subject matter is that of how to handle iddat. How do you see it otherwise?
Thereis no need too to start a thread on iddat, but to try and understand the actual financial responsibility, as per the Quran. Not being as well versed in Arabic as some other contributors on this forum, I am waiting to hear from the Quranic language savvies to join this discussion.
Based from the logic of the ayaat that I already quoted and referenced, I don't see that the man is charged with providing maintence to a divorced wife beyond the weaning of a child, and that is only if she is still staying in his house and taking care of the child.
This is how you understand it we need broader understanding of this.
I don't see that the welfare of the children is concerned regarding English law.
You obviously do not know much about English Law it used to be biased in favour of women, but many abused the law and it?s now more focused on the rights of the children and of both parents
Wassalaam
farida -
As Salaamu Alaikum IQO
Wa alaikum as salaam farida,
I did not say that children have the right to decide and, as I said earlier, the parents are supposed to come to an agreement regarding the children.
As I said, to me Al Quran suggests that the children stay with the father. So the only thing for the parents to agree upon, is that if the child is still of nursing age, while the women stay in the house after divorce and continue to nurse and care for the child, or will they hire a wet nurse to take over that job.
It?s very complex now and not only young but middle age couple are divorcing as their marriage become stale.
So we should not be basing our discussion on the cases where the children want to stay with the mother, but rather what does Al Quran's guidance say about any and all cases. It is important to apply the Quranic laws to real cases so we can find a solution to this very dirty side of life. The laws were given to us to be used in real life situations, not to make them a subject of debate, nor boasting.I think that I said most of this verbatim already...but that's for reiterrating it all.
And what does any of this have to do with boasting? ???
By Islamically I meant those who profess to know more about Islam.
Who exactly are those to you? The ones I mentioned as sunni, etc.?
'(Very sad to know that on your side of the world mums are using maintenance finance primarily to get her hair done so that she can show it off without khimaar. In my experience with muslim mothers they?re struggling with little money available, the child support agencies chasing the father in vain.
This just goes to show that life experiences are no match for Quranic guidance. If we could completely guide ourselves by our experiences and the experiences of others, then we would not need revelation from Allah.
Also, child support agencies would not have to chase fathers if they had given them the proper custody of the kids as Al Quran suggests, IMHO; because the women would not be charged with support, and therefore the government would be out of the people's personal business...unless the father abuses the children by not letting the mother visit them.
This is the ideal situation and I would welcome this and ask mothers to leave this task to their divorced husband but, sadly Muslim men seem to run away from this responsibility, unless there is an old mother, or some one else in the family, willing to take on the kids.
The assumption that muslim men run away from this responsibility must be a generality or stereotype from your part of the world. Most men, even if they don't pay child support try to see their children; while of course others just walk away. Generally, those that just walk away are not from marriages, but from those who had children out of wedlock, another issue that arises from disobeying Allah and thus creates unnatural situations.
Nevertheless, if women want to be "equal" and take on the role as maintainer and provider, why do they even expect to receive financial support? If the men take the children, Quranically they don't get financial support from the ex-wife; so if the women assume this role, why should she, seeing that she is not following Al Quran anyway?
Personally, I have never seen or heard of a case where a man gets divorced and is offered custody of his kids and refuses to accept that responsibility. Mostly it is someone assuming that since he works, he can't take care of them like a mother so that the woman is more suitable to care for the kids and the man should just pay for it all. That's not Quranic in my understanding after a divorce has taken place.
Also, a man that follows Al Quran and has more than one wife, if one is divorced, still has another wife or wives that can help to care for the kids. Very likely, one of them could also be nursing and nurse the other child and get additional benefits from the father for doing so.
If I was a believing man, and I really feared God, I would not boast about a degree of advantage, but rather view it as a responsibility with greater trust, as the surah below exprsses
?We have offered the trust to the heavens and the Earth, and the mountains, but they refused to bear it, and were fearful of it. But the human being accepted it; he was transgressing, ignorant.?
And I would be more fearful since this duty of trust involves an extremely high responsibility, especially given the degree of advantage.Since when did mentioning facts about what Al Quran says become boasting? ??? What is your hangup with this aspect that you see it as boasting? hmm
All human beings should be fearful of their responsibility and duty to obey Allah in the roles that He has prescribed for them...men and women.
Thereis no need too to start a thread on iddat, but to try and understand the actual financial responsibility, as per the Quran. Not being as well versed in Arabic as some other contributors on this forum, I am waiting to hear from the Quranic language savvies to join this discussion.
You can't discuss the financial responsibility and obligation regarding children and ex-wives without discussing iddat because they are intertwined in Al Quran.
Maybe some of your Quranic language savvies can join in the discussion and help you to see that since you can't seem to understand it from all the many translations available.
This is how you understand it we need broader understanding of this.
I look forward to other's views also. I haven't seen any other Quranic views on the subject presented in this thread yet.
You obviously do not know much about English Law it used to be biased in favour of women, but many abused the law and it?s now more focused on the rights of the children and of both parents
If by English law you mean the law in England, then you are right. I know about American law. They are trying to do the same thing also, but it is still behind in reality.
As Salaamu Alaikum, peace
-
IQO
Salam,
Men have the right to divorce, and have a right to keep the children, so they can any time divorce a wife , and deprive the woman of her loved ones. Knowing, how strong is the motherhood bond, this seems very illogical and cruel to me, this understanding can lead to black mail, and abuse in a matrimonial relationship.
siki
-
IQO
Salam,
Men have the right to divorce, and have a right to keep the children, so they can any time divorce a wife , and deprive the woman of her loved ones. Knowing, how strong is the motherhood bond, this seems very illogical and cruel to me, this understanding can lead to black mail, and abuse in a matrimonial relationship.
siki
Salaam Siki
You are talking about logic to such a person who believes this
Also, a man that follows Al Quran and has more than one wife, if one is divorced, still has another wife or wives that can help to care for the kids. Very likely, one of them could also be nursing and nurse the other child and get additional benefits from the father for doing so.And what would this follower of Al Quran do when he divorces his next wife and throws her out; its very likely that the next wife in line will take care of the children?
As for his responsibility towards children he should just get one "woman" after another to look after "his" children and that is how he is keeping the trust entrusted to him by Allah(swt)What a shining example of a Muslim Man!
Best regards
farida -
Salaams siki,
The points that you present say that one has power over another and can take advantage of that person if they so choose. There is nothing un-Quranic about that, that is the way life is and why we have so much suffering. Others in the position to do so, take advantage of others.
The point is that a BELIEVING man of faith is warned against EXACTLY what you are saying in Al Quran. So surely he who doesn't truly fear Allah will possibly do what you are saying, and he who takes his guidance from Al Quran and implements it will not. The ayat of Al Quran tell the human beings not to do exactly what you are saying, hence Al Quran is recognizing that the opportunity to do so exists, and hence very logical.
As Salaamu Alaikum, peace
IQO
Salam,
Men have the right to divorce, and have a right to keep the children, so they can any time divorce a wife , and deprive the woman of her loved ones. Knowing, how strong is the motherhood bond, this seems very illogical and cruel to me, this understanding can lead to black mail, and abuse in a matrimonial relationship.
siki
-
Farida,
You obviously have nothing Quranic to add to the discussion or make a point with. I will take the liberty to ignore all of your posting from here on out, unless one day you decide to study Al Quran and make some valid points from it instead of your opinions and emotions.
Have a nice life!
Salaam Siki
You are talking about logic to such a person who believes this
And what would this follower of Al Quran do when he divorces his next wife and throws her out; its very likely that the next wife in line will take care of the children?
As for his responsibility towards children he should just get one "woman" after another to look after "his" children and that is how he is keeping the trust entrusted to him by Allah(swt)What a shining example of a Muslim Man!
Best regards
farida -
IQO
salam
I dared to post my own logic only due to reason that i am still not sure as to what al quran says about this issue, i have not carried out the studies, and even you confess that your conclusions are incomplete and hence open to changes/modifications.
So let's keep our minds open and search the book for the answers.
What we follow here in Pakistan is very logical, Mother deserves the custody till kids are 7 and 14 (boys and girls respectively) and the Father provides for them in propotion to his income. If mother remarries, the custody is reverted to father immediately. When the kids reach the above mentioned age the custody is reverted to father unless they both settle otherwise.
young children need mothering , whereas when they grow up they need protection of their fathers.
siki
-
Salaams siki,
I understand what Pakistan or other sunni run areas of the world have as their policy regarding divorce and children from their Islamic perspective, but can any of it be proven or backed up from Al Quran? If so, all I am asking for are ayaat that point to these conclusions as you have given them.
If we use a rational or emotional based answer based on our own experiences, everyone will come up with different reasons for this or that which all can be considered valid depending on the circumstance of each couple and individuals. That would be fine if Allah gave no guidance on the issue in Al Quran, thus indicating that He was leaving those items up to us. But in instances where Allah speaks about the issue in Al Quran, then our obligation is to try to understand the guidance given first, and then to implement it.
So in this thread, me personally, I am only interested in viewpoints based directly from ayaat and their understanding that support a particular idea about how we should handle the financial responsibilities and custody issues regarding children and women during divorce. If you or any one else can provide evidence from your understanding of Al Quran, then I will be happy to discuss that and try to gain a more in depth understanding, Allah willing.
As Salaamu Alaikum, angel
IQO
salam
I dared to post my own logic only due to reason that i am still not sure as to what al quran says about this issue, i have not carried out the studies, and even you confess that your conclusions are incomplete and hence open to changes/modifications.
So let's keep our minds open and search the book for the answers.
What we follow here in Pakistan is very logical, Mother deserves the custody till kids are 7 and 14 (boys and girls respectively) and the Father provides for them in propotion to his income. If mother remarries, the custody is reverted to father immediately. When the kids reach the above mentioned age the custody is reverted to father unless they both settle otherwise.
young children need mothering , whereas when they grow up they need protection of their fathers.
siki
-
Salaam Farida, all
To my understanding, the quraan does not decide which gender is richer than the other, but from verse 434, I take the first part as a general statement, inforcing my understanding of "nisaa'" to mean those vulnerable and thus poor in this context, including children. So, whichever of the parents is richer, should provide for the children until they stand on their feet and become independent. In case the parents are poor or dead, the children become part of (the vulnerable kids and the orphans ى, and that's why we do not find a verse explicitly explaing the financial responsibility regarding children. Details should be based for every case on this principle and set by the community.
-
Salaam Farida, all
Salaams,
To my understanding, the quraan does not decide which gender is richer than the other, but from verse 434, I take the first part as a general statement, inforcing my understanding of "nisaa'" to mean those vulnerable and thus poor in this context, including children.
Al Quran doesn't decide which gender is richer than the other, but Allah does give the responsibility to the men to maintain and provide for the women.
And please, how many times are you gonna have to be shown again that taking rijaal and nisaa as anything other than men and women in 434 is just wrong and ridiculous? You can't enforce part of a meaning of a word as the primary or only meaning of the word for an ayat of Al Quran without it making sense...but wait...this isn't your first time to do that is it? hmm
So, whichever of the parents is richer, should provide for the children until they stand on their feet and become independent. In case the parents are poor or dead, the children become part of (the vulnerable kids and the orphans ى, and that's why we do not find a verse explicitly explaing the financial responsibility regarding children. Details should be based for every case on this principle and set by the community.
Does it say in Al Quran that the richer parent has responsibility for the kids? or the husband?
So now kids with poor parents become part of "yataamaa" also?
You don't see anything in these ayaat below that include the mentioning of financial responsibility regarding children?
2228
Transliteration Waalmutallaqatu yatarabbasna bi-anfusihinna thalathata quroo-in wala yahillu lahunna an yaktumna ma khalaqa Allahu fee arhamihinna in kunna yu/minna biAllahi waalyawmi al-akhiri wabuAAoolatuhunna ahaqqu biraddihinna fee thalika in aradoo islahan walahunna mithlu allathee AAalayhinna bialmaAAroofi walilrrijali AAalayhinna darajatun waAllahu AAazeezun hakeemun
Literal And the divorced (F) wait with themselves (F) three menstrual cycles , and (it is) not permitted/allowed to them (F) that they (F) hide/conceal what God created in their (F) wombs/uteruses , if they (F) were believing with God, and the Day the Last/Resurrection Day, and their husbands/spouses (are) more worthy/deserving with returning them, in that if they wanted/intended a reconciliation . And for them (F) similar/equal what (is) on them (F) with the kindness/generosity , and to the men a step/stage/grade on them (F), and God (is) glorious/mighty , wise/judicious.
Free-Minds And the divorced women shall wait for three menstruation periods; and it is not lawful for them to conceal what God has created in their wombs, if they believe in God and the Last Day. And their husbands would then have just cause to return together, if they both wish to reconcile. And for what obligations the women are owed, so similarly must they fulfil their obligations. But the men will have a greater responsibility over them in this. And God is Noble, Wise.
Rashad Khalifa The divorced women shall wait three menstruations (before marrying another man). It is not lawful for them to conceal what GOD creates in their wombs, if they believe in GOD and the Last Day. (In case of pregnancy,) the husband's wishes shall supersede the wife's wishes, if he wants to remarry her. The women have rights, as well as obligations, equitably. Thus, the man's wishes prevail (in case of pregnancy). GOD is Almighty, Most Wise.
Yusuf Ali Divorced women shall wait concerning themselves for three monthly periods. Nor is it lawful for them to hide what Allah Hath created in their wombs, if they have faith in Allah and the Last Day. And their husbands have the better right to take them back in that period, if they wish for reconciliation. And women shall have rights similar to the rights against them, according to what is equitable; but men have a degree (of advantage) over them. And Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise.2233
Transliteration Waalwalidatu yurdiAAna awladahunna hawlayni kamilayni liman arada an yutimma alrradaAAata waAAala almawloodi lahu rizquhunna wakiswatuhunna bialmaAAroofi la tukallafu nafsun illa wusAAaha la tudarra walidatun biwaladiha wala mawloodun lahu biwaladihi waAAala alwarithi mithlu thalika fa-in arada fisalan AAan taradin minhuma watashawurin fala junaha AAalayhima wa-in aradtum an tastardiAAoo awladakum fala junaha AAalaykum itha sallamtum ma ataytum bialmaAAroofi waittaqoo Allaha waiAAlamoo anna Allaha bima taAAmaloona baseerun
Literal And the mothers breast feed their children two years complete, to who wanted/intended that (to) complete the lactation/breast feeding period, and on the born to him/father, (is the responsibility of) their provision (F) and their dressing/clothing (F) with the kindness/generosity , (that) no self be burdened/imposed upon except its endurance/capacity , no mother (is) to be harmed with her child, and nor a born to him/father (be harmed) with his child. And on the heir/inharitant similar/equal (to) that, so if they (B) wanted separation (weaning) on acceptance/approval from them (B), and discussion/consultation , so no offense/guilt/sin on them (B), and if you willed/wanted that to seek a wet nurse/breast feeder (for) your children, so no offense/guilt/sin on you if you handed/delivered over what you gave with the kindness/generosity , and fear and obey God, and know that God (is) with what you make/do seeing/knowing/understanding.
Free-Minds And the divorced mothers are allowed to suckle their children two full years, if they wish to complete the suckling. And the man for whom the child is born is responsible for both their provisions and clothing equitably. We do not burden a soul beyond its means. No mother shall be harmed because of her child, nor shall a father be harmed because of his child. And for the guardian is the same requirement. So if they wish to separate out of mutual agreement and council, then there is no sin upon them. And if you want to hire nursing mothers, then there is no sin upon you if you return what you have been given equitably. And be aware of God, and know that God is watching over what you do.
Rashad Khalifa Divorced mothers shall nurse their infants two full years, if the father so wishes. The father shall provide the mother's food and clothing equitably. No one shall be burdened beyond his ability. No mother shall be harmed on account of her infant, nor shall the father be harmed because of his infant. (If the father dies), his inheritor shall assume these responsibilities. If the infant's parents mutually agree to part, after due consultation, they commit no error by doing so. You commit no error by hiring nursing mothers, so long as you pay them equitably. You shall observe GOD, and know that GOD is Seer of everything you do.
Yusuf Ali The mothers shall give such to their offspring for two whole years, if the father desires to complete the term. But he shall bear the cost of their food and clothing on equitable terms. No soul shall have a burden laid on it greater than it can bear. No mother shall be Treated unfairly on account of her child. Nor father on account of his child, an heir shall be chargeable in the same way. If they both decide on weaning, by mutual consent, and after due consultation, there is no blame on them. If ye decide on a foster-mother for your offspring, there is no blame on you, provided ye pay (the mother) what ye offered, on equitable terms. But fear Allah and know that Allah sees well what ye do.651
Transliteration Ya ayyuha alnnabiyyu itha tallaqtumu alnnisaa fatalliqoohunna liAAiddatihinna waahsoo alAAiddata waittaqoo Allaha rabbakum la tukhrijoohunna min buyootihinna wala yakhrujna illa an ya/teena bifahishatin mubayyinatin watilka hudoodu Allahi waman yataAAadda hudooda Allahi faqad thalama nafsahu la tadree laAAalla Allaha yuhdithu baAAda thalika amran
Literal You, you the prophet, if you divorced the women, so divorce them (F) to their term (F), and count/calculate the menstrual cycle/term and fear and obey God, your Lord, do not bring them out from their (F) houses/homes, and they (F) do not get out except that they do/commit with an evident enormous/atrocious deed , and those are God's limits/boundaries/orders, and who transgresses/violates God's limits/boundaries/orders, so he had caused injustice/oppression (to) his self, you do not know, maybe/perhaps God initiates/causes after that a matter/affair (event) .
Free-Minds O you prophet, if any of you have divorced the women, then they should be divorced while ensuring that their required interim is fulfilled, and keep count of the interim. You shall reverence God your Lord, and do not evict the women from their homes, nor should they leave, unless they have committed a proven adultery. And these are God's limits. And anyone who transgresses God's limits has wronged his soul. You never know; perhaps God will make something come out of this.
Rashad Khalifa O you prophet, when you people divorce the women, you shall ensure that a divorce interim is fulfilled. You shall measure such an interim precisely. You shall reverence GOD your Lord. Do not evict them from their homes, nor shall you make life miserable for them, to force them to leave on their own, unless they commit a proven adultery. These are GOD's laws. Anyone who transgresses GOD's laws commits an injustice against himself. You never know; maybe GOD wills something good to come out of this.
Yusuf Ali O Prophet! When ye do divorce women, divorce them at their prescribed periods, and count (accurately), their prescribed periods And fear Allah your Lord and turn them not out of their houses, nor shall they (themselves) leave, except in case they are guilty of some open lewdness, those are limits set by Allah and any who transgresses the limits of Allah, does verily wrong his (own) soul thou knowest not if perchance Allah will bring about thereafter some new situation.652
Transliteration Fa-itha balaghna ajalahunna faamsikoohunna bimaAAroofin aw fariqoohunna bimaAAroofin waashhidoo thaway AAadlin minkum waaqeemoo alshshahadata lillahi thalikum yooAAathu bihi man kana yu/minu biAllahi waalyawmi al-akhiri waman yattaqi Allaha yajAAal lahu makhrajan
Literal So if they (F) reached (completed) their term/time, so hold/grasp them (F) with kindness/generosity or separate from them (F) with kindness/generosity , and call a witness (two owners) (B) of justice/equality from you, and keep up/take care of the testimony/certification to God, that is being preached/advised/warned with it who was believing with (in) God, and the Day the Last/Resurrection Day; and who fears and obeys God, He makes/puts for him a way out/exit.
Free-Minds Then, once the interim is fulfilled, either you remain together equitably, or part ways equitably and have it witnessed by two just people from among you; and give the testimony for God. This is to enlighten those who believe in God and the Last Day. And whosoever reverences God, He will create a solution for him.
Rashad Khalifa Once the interim is fulfilled, you may reconcile with them equitably, or go through with the separation equitably. You shall have two equitable witnesses witness the divorce before GOD. This is to enlighten those who believe in GOD and the Last Day. Anyone who reverences GOD, He will create an exit for him.
Yusuf Ali Thus when they fulfil their term appointed, either take them back on equitable terms or part with them on equitable terms; and take for witness two persons from among you, endued with justice, and establish the evidence (as) before Allah. Such is the admonition given to him who believes in Allah and the Last Day. And for those who fear Allah, He (ever) prepares a way out,653
Transliteration Wayarzuqhu min haythu la yahtasibu waman yatawakkal AAala Allahi fahuwa hasbuhu inna Allaha balighu amrihi qad jaAAala Allahu likulli shay-in qadran
Literal And He provides for him from where/when he does not think/suppose, and who relies/depends on God, so He is enough for him, that truly God (is) delivering/accomplishing His order/command , God had made/put to every thing a predestiny/quantity/value.
Free-Minds And He will provide for him whence he never expected. Anyone who puts his trust in God, then He suffices him. God's commands will be done. God has decreed for everything its fate.
Rashad Khalifa And will provide for him whence he never expected. Anyone who trusts in GOD, He suffices him. GOD's commands are done. GOD has decreed for everything its fate.
Yusuf Ali And He provides for him from (sources) he never could imagine. And if any one puts his trust in Allah, sufficient is (Allah) for him. For Allah will surely accomplish his purpose verily, for all things has Allah appointed a due proportion.654
Transliteration Waalla-ee ya-isna mina almaheedi min nisa-ikum ini irtabtum faAAiddatuhunna thalathatu ashhurin waalla-ee lam yahidna waolatu al-ahmali ajaluhunna an yadaAAna hamlahunna waman yattaqi Allaha yajAAal lahu min amrihi yusran
Literal And those (F) who became infertile/despaired from the menstruation from your women, if you became doubtful/suspicious, so their term/count (is) three months, and those (F) who did not menstruate, and (those) of the pregnant , their term/time (is) that (E) they (F) give birth/drop their (F) off spring/loads/pregnancies , and who fears and obeys God, He makes/puts from his matter/affair ease/flexibility.
Free-Minds As for the women who have reached menopause, if you have any doubts, their interim shall be three months. And as for those whose menstruation has ceased, and those who are already pregnant, their interim is until they give birth. And anyone who reverences God, He makes his matters easy for him.
Rashad Khalifa As for the women who have reached menopause, if you have any doubts, their interim shall be three months. As for those who do not menstruate, and discover that they are pregnant, their interim ends upon giving birth. Anyone who reverences GOD, He makes everything easy for him.
Yusuf Ali Such of your women as have passed the age of monthly courses, for them the prescribed period, if ye have any doubts, is three months, and for those who have no courses (it is the same) for those who carry (life within their wombs), their period is until they deliver their burdens and for those who fear Allah, He will make their path easy.655
Transliteration Thalika amru Allahi anzalahu ilaykum waman yattaqi Allaha yukaffir AAanhu sayyi-atihi wayuAAthim lahu ajran
Literal That (is) God's order/command, He descended it to you, and who fears and obeys God, He covers/substitutes from him his sins/crimes and He magnifies for him a reward .
Free-Minds This is God's command that He sends down to you. And anyone who is aware of God, He will remit his sins, and will improve his reward.
Rashad Khalifa This is GOD's command that He sends down to you. Anyone who reverences GOD, He remits his sins, and rewards him generously.
Yusuf Ali That is the Command of Allah, which He has sent down to you and if any one fears Allah, He will remove his ills, from him, and will enlarge his reward.656
Transliteration Askinoohunna min haythu sakantum min wujdikum wala tudarroohunna litudayyiqoo AAalayhinna wa-in kunna olati hamlin faanfiqoo AAalayhinna hatta yadaAAna hamlahunna fa-in ardaAAna lakum faatoohunna ojoorahunna wa/tamiroo baynakum bimaAAroofin wa-in taAAasartum fasaturdiAAu lahu okhra
Literal Reside/make them (F) live from where you resided from your wealth/capability , and do not harm them (F) to tighten/strain on them (F), and if they (F) were of pregnancy so spend on them until they give birth/drop their loads/off spring/pregnancy , so if they (F) breast fed for you (wet nursed), so give/bring them their (F) rewards , and consult each other, between you with kindness/generosity , and if you had difficulty/hardship , so another will breast feed (wet nurse) for him.
Free-Minds You shall let them reside in the home you were in when you were together, and do not coerce them to make them leave. And if they are pregnant, you shall spend on them until they give birth. Then, if they nurse the infant, you shall pay them their due for such. And you shall maintain the amicable relations between you. If you disagree, then another woman may nurse the child.
Rashad Khalifa You shall allow them to live in the same home in which they lived with you, and do not make life so miserable for them that they leave on their own. If they are pregnant, you shall spend on them until they give birth. If they nurse the infant, you shall pay them for this service. You shall maintain the amicable relations among you. If you disagree, you may hire another woman to nurse the child
Yusuf Ali Let the women live (in 'iddat) in the same style as ye live, according to your means Annoy them not, so as to restrict them. And if they carry (life in their wombs), then spend (your substance) on them until they deliver their burden and if they suckle your (offspring), give them their recompense and take mutual counsel together, according to what is just and reasonable. And if ye find yourselves in difficulties, let another woman suckle (the child) on the (father's) behalf.657
Transliteration Liyunfiq thoo saAAatin min saAAatihi waman qudira AAalayhi rizquhu falyunfiq mimma atahu Allahu la yukallifu Allahu nafsan illa ma ataha sayajAAalu Allahu baAAda AAusrin yusran
Literal (The owner) of a wealth/abundance (is) to spend from his wealth/abundance, and whom his provision was tightened/strained on him, so he should spend from what God gave him, God does not burden/impose (on) a self except what He gave it, God will make/create after difficulty/hardship , ease/flexibility.
Free-Minds The rich shall provide support in accordance with his means, and the poor shall provide according to the means that God bestowed upon him. God does not burden any soul more than He has given it. God will provide ease after difficulty.
Rashad Khalifa The rich husband shall provide support in accordance with his means, and the poor shall provide according to the means that GOD bestowed upon him. GOD does not impose on any soul more than He has given it. GOD will provide ease after difficulty.
Yusuf Ali Let the man of means spend according to his means and the man whose resources are restricted, let him spend according to what Allah has given him. Allah puts no burden on any person beyond what He has given him. After a difficulty, Allah will soon grant relief. -
Salaam Farida, all
To my understanding, the quraan does not decide which gender is richer than the other, but from verse 434, I take the first part as a general statement, inforcing my understanding of "nisaa'" to mean those vulnerable and thus poor in this context, including children. So, whichever of the parents is richer, should provide for the children until they stand on their feet and become independent. In case the parents are poor or dead, the children become part of (the vulnerable kids and the orphans ى, and that's why we do not find a verse explicitly explaing the financial responsibility regarding children. Details should be based for every case on this principle and set by the community.
As Salaam Alaikum
Thank you Samia, for responding to this issue. We need to understand Quranic guidance to this situation, in view of the ever increasing number of divorces with children involved.
I believe that the Qur?an is for everyone and all should understand it according to their own logic. For me I have to apply guidance from the Quran into life experiences and, so far I find AQ addresses all situations justly, but IMQ is trying to impose his understanding of the Quran on the status of the man in relation to his children and on divorce. Such unjust views make me sick and could well drive many women away from the guidance. Therefore I would request you to discuss it in detail.
As you say it?s for the community to decide, so in India too a system, similar to what Siki described, exists but, here in the UK, fathers employ all sorts of tricks to avoid paying maintenance just to spite the ex-wife, even if they earn good money. They expect the state to look after their children and yet no one tells them about their duty, in accordance with the Qur?an.
Children are expected to obey their fathers, no matter what. I did not see IMQ giving his opinion on this subject under family issue/parenting of this forum.We have seen enough threads on this forum that focus on women; how they should dress and how they should behave. I think it?s about time we discussed how we should all behave and play our part in the community.
Best regards
farida -
Salaams,
Al Quran doesn't decide which gender is richer than the other, but Allah does give the responsibility to the men to maintain and provide for the women.
And please, how many times are you gonna have to be shown again that taking rijaal and nisaa as anything other than men and women in 434 is just wrong and ridiculous? You can't enforce part of a meaning of a word as the primary or only meaning of the word for an ayat of Al Quran without it making sense...but wait...this isn't your first time to do that is it? hmm
Does it say in Al Quran that the richer parent has responsibility for the kids? or the husband?
So now kids with poor parents become part of "yataamaa" also?
You don't see anything in these ayaat below that include the mentioning of financial responsibility regarding children? o
Salaam brother!
I am really convinced by your logic and systemic and rational approach.
Keep up good work. -
Salaam brother!
I am really convinced by your logic and systemic and rational approach.
Keep up good work.Salaam brother Al-Quran only,
Nice to see another voice of reason and logic around here also! sun
You keep up the good work in your threads as well, Allah willing.
As Salaamu Alaikum, peace