Greetings
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Peace and greetings, brothers and sisters.
I have been reading the forum, and felt it time to register. I am a recent convert to Islam, and, from my studies, have always found myself fitting into the Qur'an-Only aspect of Islam, as I feel that a person should look to a religion's scripture, rather than the practices and dogma of it's contemporary followers, many of which, are of practices never mentioned in the original scripture.
I have never been a particularly religious person, but I have always been a spritual one, and, when I started reading the Holy Qur'an several months ago, I found myself agreeing with the message within, and strove to incorporate that into my everyday life. It was not long after that, that I experienced ihsan, and realized that I should be a Muslim, and live my life as the Holy Qur'an dictates, so that is what I have done, and have felt incredible peace and benefit from it.
I chose this forum name(s) as they describe me as a person. I have not changed my name to an Islamic one, but for such a forum, I felt it appropriate to use an Islamic name, and one which described me seemed the best way to go, rather than to simply choose something I liked, or at random, or even the closest equivelent to my own name.
One aspect of my lifestyle which others might not agree with, is that I occasionally drink alcohol. My reading of the Holy Qur'an, is that there is no passage which specifically forbids the consumption of alcohol, as there are passages which specifically forbid the consumption of flesh of swine. There are, however, passages which state not to come to prayer while intoxicated (which in itself would require the drinking of alcohol) but to wait until one can understand what one utters, so indeed, as is only correct and respectful, I do not pray while drunk (infact, I never drink enough to become intoxicated) Other passages point out there being more sin than profit in wine and games of chance, but, they do not specifically forbid them They simply point out the issue, and then allows people to make their own choice, as indeed, Allah grants us all free will to make our own choices. My choice is that I occasionally drink alcohol (never to excess) as there is no commandment specifically forbidding it. I have never particularly enjoyed pork products, so that is not a difficult thing to give up, and, thanks to the guidance of brother Muslims at my local kebab shop, I am able to eat halal food daily. Indeed, these brothers were instromental in my decision to convert, as they were the ones who, upon learning that I had started reading the Holy Qur'an, encouraged my studies, and treated me like a brother.
My conversion came just before Ramadan, and I observed it fully, breaking only one fast, and that was to attend a dinner for my mother in law's birthday in early October. Initially, I felt like I had let myself and Allah down, by not sticking to the fast, but, my brother in the kebab shop pointed out that there are many Muslims who do not keep to the fasts at all, and, that I had eaten out of social politeness, not because I wanted to break the fast, so that greatly lifted my spirits, and I made up the fast as soon as was permissable afterwards.
I look forward to learning more from everyone here.
Peace be upon you.welcome
I don't understand where you got the idea of an 'Islamic name' from, it seems you chose an Arab name to log in here. There is no quranic commandment telling anyone to change their name from Bob Davidson to al-Hakeem Abu Dawud or whatever else.
My conversion came just before Ramadan, and I observed it fully, breaking only one fast, and that was to attend a dinner for my mother in law's birthday in early October. Initially, I felt like I had let myself and Allah down, by not sticking to the fast, but, my brother in the kebab shop pointed out that there are many Muslims who do not keep to the fasts at all, and, that I had eaten out of social politeness, not because I wanted to break the fast, so that greatly lifted my spirits, and I made up the fast as soon as was permissable afterwards.
The thing is that islam not being an organized religion does not mean that you can appeal to the masses to justify your own lack of commitment to something, in this case, fasting. Just because others don't hold it together means nothing, the quran endorses active belief (see 3104). The question is, however, how do the fasts work since there is no defined calendar in the quran, only a time measuring system based on the sun and moon (105). That gives us a lot of flexibility but it doesn't really prove a 30 day thing. Any attempt to pull out a calendar seems to involve placing a square peg into a circular hole somewhere along.
As with all things, Allah grants us the free will to make our own choices, and forgives us for our failings, as Allah knows best.
That in the bold is not always true because one has to be in ignorance of the failing for 'forgiveness' or whatever else to apply.
Thank you very much.I am learning a lot from your input.
Would you please translate this aya literally and then explain it ,particularly highlighted words.
590Handiwork of satan =/= explicitly forbidden. Not only that but the quranic path of action commands us to take refuge in god (surah 114) which then obviously must include abstaining from the aforementioned deeds. The sheer mention of the mention that it should be abstained from when approaching the salat proves logically and wholesale that the quran does not forbid alcohol, otherwise that verse would be redundant/abrogated and I have slightly more sense and faith in an omnipotent god. Of course the traditionalist fraudsters cooked up a lovely fabrication to say god spent a good 20 years weaning the jahili arabs off alcohol to justify this simple discrepancy and their ban on alcohol but that helps nobody.
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salam,
Welcome to the family
On the alcohol issue. You are advised not to apporach Salat if intoxicated, also, you should keep your guard up when drinking as the devil uses intociants as an opportunity to influence actions.
With regards to the comments on 2219 and its correlation to 733 (ithm being forbidden), this is the same issue as above. Intoxicants in themselves are not
ithim, but within them may be containedithim- hence the caution/warning label. -
Thank you very much.I am learning a lot from your input.
Would you please translate this aya literally and then explain it ,particularly highlighted words.
590Peace
I cannot translate it literally, as I have not yet learned Arabic.
If you would care to translate it, I would be most interested to read it, and your interperetation of it.Peace
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welcome
I don't understand where you got the idea of an 'Islamic name' from, it seems you chose an Arab name to log in here. There is no quranic commandment telling anyone to change their name from Bob Davidson to al-Hakeem Abu Dawud or whatever else.
Peace and thanks.
Indeed, there is no commandment telling someone to change their name, and this is why I have not done so. However, historically, some Muslim converts have adopted Arabic names, and I felt it would be appropriate to use such a name, in this instance. As mentioned before, the names I chose represent who I am and what I do.The thing is that islam not being an organized religion does not mean that you can appeal to the masses to justify your own lack of commitment to something, in this case, fasting. Just because others don't hold it together means nothing, the quran endorses active belief (see 3104).
"Lack of commitment" is an ugly phrase, and certainly does not apply to the situation where I broke my fast. Had I not broken my fast, I would have been the only person in the restaurant not eating. I would have been the only person at the table not eating. That would have created an incredibly noticeable, and uncomfortable situation for everyone else. It was easier, to eat a small amount of food, and make up the fast afterwards. Allah will know that it was my intention to fast, and that I did not choose to eat out of desire for food, but so as someone else, would not feel uncomfortable. The Holy Qur'an allows people to make up fasts as necessary. It may be sunnah/hadith rather than sura, but I have since read in a book about Islam, that if someone who is fasting is offered food, they should accept it (as to refuse would be rude, and because they are not eating because they choose to do so) and make up the fast afterwards. That may only be sunnah/hadith, and, as a Qur'an Alone Muslim, I do not follow the sunnah/hadith of the prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, and indeed, I was not aware of that text at the time when I broke my fast, but, it would certainly make sense for Allah to forgive someone breaking a fast for such a reason, as Allah forgives Muslims who are forced to eat flesh of swine (either out of starvation, or by being literally force-fed) and flesh of swine, is something which is utterly forbidden.
I do not think my brother was trying to suggest that people can choose to follow or not, afterall, as Muslims, we submit ourselves to Allah's will, I believe he was simply trying to point out, that there are people who have been raised as Muslims, who do not keep to the fasts, yet as a convert, I had already fasted completely for almost all of Ramadan, so should not be overly hard on myself, when there were other Muslims who had not kept to the fasts as much, or for as long, as I had.The question is, however, how do the fasts work since there is no defined calendar in the quran, only a time measuring system based on the sun and moon (105). That gives us a lot of flexibility but it doesn't really prove a 30 day thing. Any attempt to pull out a calendar seems to involve placing a square peg into a circular hole somewhere along.
The Holy Qur'an states the month for fasting, and the times where fast should be observed. If that knowledge is to then be applied to the existing Arabic calender, then that would make perfect sense. It does not have to be specifically 30 days by the Gregorian calender, it is a month as measured by the phases of the moon.
That in the bold is not always true because one has to be in ignorance of the failing for 'forgiveness' or whatever else to apply.
That is true.
Handiwork of satan =/= explicitly forbidden. Not only that but the quranic path of action commands us to take refuge in god (surah 114) which then obviously must include abstaining from the aforementioned deeds. The sheer mention of the mention that it should be abstained from when approaching the salat proves logically and wholesale that the quran does not forbid alcohol, otherwise that verse would be redundant/abrogated and I have slightly more sense and faith in an omnipotent god. Of course the traditionalist fraudsters cooked up a lovely fabrication to say god spent a good 20 years weaning the jahili arabs off alcohol to justify this simple discrepancy and their ban on alcohol but that helps nobody.
The boldened text, I agree entirely, as I agree with the fabrication being a facrication. In a book I read about Islam, it tried to suggest that the text (of 20 years later) was proof of outright prohibition. Of course, it was no such thing, as outright prohibition, would have been stated thus, as the outright prohibition of flesh of swine is thus stated, with the word 'forbidden'
Peace
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Peace and welcome, RaseemNaqqaash.
Peace and thanks, Tay )
It seems Raseem's mind and mine are one. LOL
I am sure that can only be a good thing )
brother~ i also came to Islam via social Ramadan fasting. yay
it is good to meet you, Raseem. may God bless you and keep you well, brother.
Greetings, sister. It would seem that we were both 'thrown in at the deep end' when we came to Islam. I found it a thoroughly enlightening experience, and one I look forward to in the coming year ) May peace be upon you, sister.
salam,
Welcome to the family )
On the alcohol issue. You are advised not to apporach Salat if intoxicated, also, you should keep your guard up when drinking as the devil uses intociants as an opportunity to influence actions.
With regards to the comments on 2219 and its correlation to 733 (ithm being forbidden), this is the same issue as above. Intoxicants in themselves are not
ithim, but within them may be containedithim- hence the caution/warning label.Salam and thanks )
Indeed, that is the reason why I never drink excessively. And indeed, the caution is there, but allows the person to make their own choice. My choice is to drink responsibly, never to the point of excess or intoxication, and absolutely never consume alcohol near the time for prayer. Others choices may vary, of course )
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Greetings, sister. It would seem that we were both 'thrown in at the deep end' when we came to Islam. I found it a thoroughly enlightening experience, and one I look forward to in the coming year May peace be upon you, sister.
me too, brother. Ramadan is wonderful, especially with other Muslims. may God's peace and guidance be with you too, Raseem. peace
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me too, brother. Ramadan is wonderful, especially with other Muslims. may God's peace and guidance be with you too, Raseem. peace
Peace sister
When Ramadan approached, I was initially concerned about feeling hungry and uncomfortable & eat
but, that was certainly not the case at all, and, for the first few days, until my body adapted to the different intakes, I felt truly euphoric. sun I had not felt so... alive... for many years, it was a truly remarkable feeling, and one that only increased my decision to follow Islam ) sunPeace
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Peace
I cannot translate it literally, as I have not yet learned Arabic.
If you would care to translate it, I would be most interested to read it, and your interperetation of it.Peace
Peace,
Dear Brother,
I will only in a friendly way tell you that some members like to ridicule and make ironic comments to others, but don't fell in their trap, they have just problem with their big EGO. Raise above that. Why you need his translations of the verse when there are already many translations. I bet he will only confuse you with his sunni interpretations.Maria
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Peace,
Dear Brother,
I will only in a friendly way tell you that some members like to ridicule and make ironic comments to others, but don't fell in their trap, they have just problem with their big EGO. Raise above that. Why you need his translations of the verse when there are already many translations. I bet he will only confuse you with his sunni interpretations.Maria
Peace, sister.
Indeed, I realized that the passage quoted, was the same as that which was quoted above, so indeed, any translation would be the same, the only difference perhaps being interpretations, and as you say, sunni interpretations at that. As OPF pointed out, the commandment about not coming to prayer while drunk, would be redundant if one could not consume intoxicants at all. That is certainly how I understood the passage to read, and, as mentioned previously, while there is specific commandments stating flesh of swine is forbidden, there is nothing stating alcohol is forbiden. It would appear there are those on the forum who claim to be Qur'an-Only, when their interperetation is more one of sunnism.
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Peace, sister.
Indeed, I realized that the passage quoted, was the same as that which was quoted above, so indeed, any translation would be the same, the only difference perhaps being interpretations, and as you say, sunni interpretations at that. As OPF pointed out, the commandment about not coming to prayer while drunk, would be redundant if one could not consume intoxicants at all. That is certainly how I understood the passage to read, and, as mentioned previously, while there is specific commandments stating flesh of swine is forbidden, there is nothing stating alcohol is forbiden. It would appear there are those on the forum who claim to be Qur'an-Only, when their interperetation is more one of sunnism.
Peace,
Yes, exactly! We shall keep our eyes open. And it's correct that there aren't any commands in Quran similiar to that of flesh of swine is forbidden, when it comes to alcohol. If we are aware of what alcohol can do to our mind and body, then we are responsible of what we consume anyway.
Maria
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According to Quran use of wine is a DIRTY,FILTHY ,SATANIC ACT.
Does Quran allow SATANIC ACTS?590
(590) Believers! Intoxicants, games of chance, idolatrous sacrifices at altars, and divining arrows *108 are all abominations, the handiwork of Satan. So turn wholly away from it that you may attain to true success.591
(591) By intoxicants and games of chance Satan only desires to create enmity and hatred between you, and to turn you away from the remembrance of Allah and from Prayer. Will you, then, desist?QURAN ALSO DECLARES VERY CLEARLY FOR COMPANIONS OF 'SATAN"
4119
He who took Satan rather than Allah for his guardian has indeed suffered a man-ifest loss. -
Peace,
Yes, exactly! We shall keep our eyes open. And it's correct that there aren't any commands in Quran similiar to that of flesh of swine is forbidden, when it comes to alcohol. If we are aware of what alcohol can do to our mind and body, then we are responsible of what we consume anyway.
Maria
Peace,
Absolutely, the text leaves it entirely up to us for our own decision
According to Quran use of wine is a DIRTY,FILTHY ,SATANIC ACT.
Does Quran allow SATANIC ACTS?590
(590) Believers! Intoxicants, games of chance, idolatrous sacrifices at altars, and divining arrows *108 are all abominations, the handiwork of Satan. So turn wholly away from it that you may attain to true success.591
(591) By intoxicants and games of chance Satan only desires to create enmity and hatred between you, and to turn you away from the remembrance of Allah and from Prayer. Will you, then, desist?QURAN ALSO DECLARES VERY CLEARLY FOR COMPANIONS OF 'SATAN"
4119
He who took Satan rather than Allah for his guardian has indeed suffered a man-ifest loss.Calm yourself, brother.
Quote 1 Does not say "Alcohol is forbidden."Quote 2 Closes on a question, not a commandment. It leaves the matter open to an individual's free will.
Quote 3 False statement. No one is taking Satan as a guardian simply by consuming alcohol, which, once more, is not specifically forbidden. As shown above, the commandment about praying while drunk, would be redundant if someone could not consume intoxicants at all. It leaves the issue open to a person's own choice and free will.
If all you are going to do is attempt to argue that Al Qur'an forbids alcohol, when it clearly does not, please do not waste your time or mine by directing posts to me. You are not going to change my opinion on this matter, as Al Qur'an is clear in its text, and it, a physical book, is always going to outweigh the opinion of someone trolling for a fight. If there is text or commandment which specifically states "intoxicants/alcohol are forbidden", then post it. If not, stop attempting to twist the text to mean what you want them to mean.
Peace
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According to Quran use of wine is a DIRTY,FILTHY ,SATANIC ACT.
Does Quran allow SATANIC ACTS?590
(590) Believers! Intoxicants, games of chance, idolatrous sacrifices at altars, and divining arrows *108 are all abominations, the handiwork of Satan. So turn wholly away from it that you may attain to true success.591
(591) By intoxicants and games of chance Satan only desires to create enmity and hatred between you, and to turn you away from the remembrance of Allah and from Prayer. Will you, then, desist?QURAN ALSO DECLARES VERY CLEARLY FOR COMPANIONS OF 'SATAN"
4119
He who took Satan rather than Allah for his guardian has indeed suffered a man-ifest loss.Peace,
I agree with Br Raseem, it's no use of twisting the words in Quran.
I can smell the reason to why alcohol isn't forbidden, because there is some good in it also ,but flesh and blood from swine is foul and can never be good for us therefore God forbid it.Satan are a creation by our own bad side, we do have both good and bad in us. we choose to behave in the way we like to therefore we are responsible for our own act and no one else can pay for someone elses errors.
To drink alcohol like a glass of wine or a beer doesn't make you drunk if you don't over consumate it. But this goes for many things. If we over consumate it's always bad for us.
So we must always stay clear of what is good for us and what can I eat and drink today to feel healthy. To scare people with satan isn't something new and it's often done by people who don't feel secure with their own needs. They must have some rules to follow, they cannot realize by their own what is good and what is bad for them.
Maria
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Peace,
I agree with Br Raseem, it's no use of twisting the words in Quran.
I can smell the reason to why alcohol isn't forbidden, because there is some good in it also ,but flesh and blood from swine is foul and can never be good for us therefore God forbid it.Satan are a creation by our own bad side, we do have both good and bad in us. we choose to behave in the way we like to therefore we are responsible for our own act and no one else can pay for someone elses errors.
To drink alcohol like a glass of wine or a beer doesn't make you drunk if you don't over consumate it. But this goes for many things. If we over consumate it's always bad for us.
So we must always stay clear of what is good for us and what can I eat and drink today to feel healthy. To scare people with satan isn't something new and it's often done by people who don't feel secure with their own needs. They must have some rules to follow, they cannot realize by their own what is good and what is bad for them.
Maria
Peace and thanks, Sister Maria, it is good to know that there are others who agree that alcohol is not strictly forbidden. The belief that it is strictly forbidden, would appear to be that sunnism you warned about previously
Peace
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Peace,
Absolutely, the text leaves it entirely up to us for our own decision
Calm yourself, brother.
Quote 1 Does not say "Alcohol is forbidden."Quote 2 Closes on a question, not a commandment. It leaves the matter open to an individual's free will.
Quote 3 False statement. No one is taking Satan as a guardian simply by consuming alcohol, which, once more, is not specifically forbidden. As shown above, the commandment about praying while drunk, would be redundant if someone could not consume intoxicants at all. It leaves the issue open to a person's own choice and free will.
If all you are going to do is attempt to argue that Al Qur'an forbids alcohol, when it clearly does not, please do not waste your time or mine by directing posts to me. You are not going to change my opinion on this matter, as Al Qur'an is clear in its text, and it, a physical book, is always going to outweigh the opinion of someone trolling for a fight. If there is text or commandment which specifically states "intoxicants/alcohol are forbidden", then post it. If not, stop attempting to twist the text to mean what you want them to mean.
Peace
Acts are either allowed or forbidden.
Since Khamar /gambling is an satanic act,it cannot be allowed so forbidden.
But only for muslims -
Peace and thanks, Sister Maria, it is good to know that there are others who agree that alcohol is not strictly forbidden. The belief that it is strictly forbidden, would appear to be that sunnism you warned about previously Peace
Peace,
You are welcome and it's likely that cause
Maria
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Acts are either allowed or forbidden.
Since Khamar /gambling is an satanic act,it cannot be allowed so forbidden.
But only for muslimsPeace,
There are always a middle road too.
Things can be said to be avoided but not proven to be forbidden.
Maria
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Peace,
There are always a middle road too.
Things can be said to be avoided but not proven to be forbidden.
Maria
There is no middle road
Either Truth or false
Either Right path or wrong path
Either Haqq /Baatil
Either Friend of Shaytaan or friend of RehmanQuran cannot allow "satanic acts"
Khamar/Gambling are satanic acts.
That is allowed to Satan companions only. -
There is no middle road
Either Truth or false
Either Right path or wrong path
Either Haqq /Baatil
Either Friend of Shaytaan or friend of RehmanQuran cannot allow "satanic acts"
Khamar/Gambling are satanic acts.
That is allowed to Satan companions only.Peace,
I must say i both agree and disagree with you on this.
Yes, it's clear that it exist right and wrong, true and false etc but how your path will end up in either the one of the chosen is up to you.
God didn't point out that it is haram to consumate alcohol but neither he pointed out that it is halal to consumate it so what you get here? You get something in middle of good and bad, right!
Maria
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Peace,
I must say i both agree and disagree with you on this.
Yes, it's clear that it exist right and wrong, true and false etc but how your path will end up in either the one of the chosen is up to you.
God didn't point out that it is haram to consumate alcohol but neither he pointed out that it is halal to consumate it so what you get here? You get something in middle of good and bad, right!
Maria
Did not God say ,that Khamar is a satanic act ,avoid it.
Anyway you cannot understand this Quranic command.
Difficult for me to discuss with those who advocate "satanic acts"
Bye
