Greetings
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yes Quran does say that if you have comitted one sin (sukaaraa) then do not commit another one i.e (saying prayers in the that state).So simple.
If someone uses heroin (one crime) and under this state if drives another crime.But you have not answere my Question
Can Quran allow or permit "satanic actions'??Peace,
Satanic acting should be avoided of course because it can cause big damage. But the big question is, are always alcohol cause damage and satanic behaviour? No, i don't think so. If you can control your drinking then it's not damaging you and others.
Quran must point out the worst things that can happen, because it's a fact that alcohol kills many people who cannot control their intake and who maybe also have a violent kind of acting even without alcohol and then it's getting worse while drinking.
Smoking cigarettes also causes many deaths every year but yet many muslims are smoking.
People always play with their health and therefore Quran will help us and guide us to stay away from things that can harm us.
But to say that people will act like satan because they drink a single glass of wine and/ or smoke a cigarette is to get too far ahead with your assumptions.
But if you feel this is your way of handle it, please do so.
Maria
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Peace,
Satanic acting should be avoided of course because it can cause big damage. But the big question is, are always alcohol cause damage and satanic behaviour? No, i don't think so. If you can control your drinking then it's not damaging you and others.
For me there is no question of benefit or that of damage in any eatable or drinkable.For me and for that matter for any muslim it is sufficient that Al-Quran orders "Avoid it".
That is all.
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For me there is no question of benefit or that of damage in any eatable or drinkable.For me and for that matter for any muslim it is sufficient that Al-Quran orders "Avoid it".
That is all.
Peace,
Aha, so you mean that you follow blindly Quran?
have you read 1736 ?
I'm consider a whole deal what I'm eating and drinking and how it benefits my body and or damage it. it's important to have a balanced diet.
Maria
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Peace,
Aha, so you mean that you follow blindly Quran?
have you read 1736 ?
I'm consider a whole deal what I'm eating and drinking and how it benefits my body and or damage it. it's important to have a balanced diet.
Maria
What about Pork ,that will provide you high protein diet.
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Salaam
5338 That no laden one shall bear another's load
53 39 And that man hath only that for which he maketh effort
5340 And that his effort will be seen.
peaceThese are also Qurani Ayaat
2231
Do not play with Allah's Commandments6119
(6119) And how is it that you do not eat of that over which Allah's name has been pronounced even though He has clearly spelled out to you what He has forbidden you unless you are constrained to it? *85 Many indeed say misleading things without knowledge, driven merely by their lowly desires. But your Lord knows well the transgressors,
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yes Quran does say that if you have comitted one sin (sukaaraa) then do not commit another one i.e (saying prayers in the that state).So simple.
If someone uses heroin (one crime) and under this state if drives another crime.But you have not answere my Question
Can Quran allow or permit "satanic actions'??Peace, brother. You have not answered the questions. Try again, and this time, try and answer the question asked with a yes or no answer.
Q.1 Does Al Qur'an state that a Muslim should not come to prayer while intoxicated, but to wait until they understand what they say? Yes or No.
Q.2 Does Al Qur'an specifically state that alcohol/intoxicants are forbidden, as it specifically states that flesh of swine is forbidden? Yes or No.
Those are easy enough questions to answer.
Peace
Peace all and welcome, RaseemNaqaash,
Peace and greetings.
It was amusing when you said that we are only told not to come near prayer when you are drunk because that is exactly what 591 says. Think about it this way. Let's say you are drinking and lo! it is time for prayer, specific times for which have been enjoined on us.... oh, but you can't pray because you are drunk. Ironic, really. This situation wouldn't have arisen if you weren't drinking in the first place.
Indeed, the situation would not have arisen if one was not drinking in the first place. If alcohol was forbidden (and specifically listed as such) then a Muslim would not drink in the first place, so could never come to prayer while drunk. But. The very fact that that passage exists, shows that Allah knows that people can and will consume alcohol, so orders them not to pray while drunk, but to wait until they can understand what they are saying. If alcohol was utterly forbidden (it would be named thusly) the passage would be redundant, and, there is nothing redundant in Al Qur'an.
Peace
What about Pork ,that will provide you high protein diet.
rotfl rotfl rotfl
Peace, brother. Pork may well provide a high protein diet, but, it is specifically named as forbidden. (unless eaten out of starvation or force-feeding against one's will, in which case there is no desire, and one is forgiven)
Let's try a different example. Are you married, brother? If so, do you find your wife's mother or sister attractive? (Even if you do not, just allow me the example) Well, they are both forbidden to you, and specifically named as forbidden to you. Do you understand the example? If something is utterly forbidden, it is specifically named and stated as utterly forbidden.
These are also Qurani Ayaat
2231
Do not play with Allah's Commandments6119
(6119) And how is it that you do not eat of that over which Allah's name has been pronounced even though He has clearly spelled out to you what He has forbidden you unless you are constrained to it? *85 Many indeed say misleading things without knowledge, driven merely by their lowly desires. But your Lord knows well the transgressors,
Good advice, brother. Advice you should heed. No-one here but you, is playing with Allah's commandments. There is no commandment specifically naming and forbidding alcohol. Your avoidance of that question will not change it's validity. To use the passage you quoted, with a shift in emphasis.
6119
(6119) And how is it that you do not eat of that over which Allah's name has been pronounced even though He has clearly spelled out to you what He has forbidden you unless you are constrained to it? *85 Many indeed say misleading things without knowledge, driven merely by their lowly desires. But your Lord knows well the transgressors.Once more, brother, Allah has clearly spelled out to you what He has forbidden. Alcohol is not 'clearly spelled out' as forbidden. Once more, if such text that specifically names and then forbids alcohol exists in Al Qur'an, then produce it.
Flesh of swine is forbidden. Eating an animal which was strangled is forbidden. Fornication with your mother in law or sister in law is forbidden. Do you not understand the logic here, brother? These things which are forbidden, are specifically named as such. Alcohol is warned against. I do not deny that. I never have. It is not, however, specifically named as forbidden, it is only warned against, and the decision to consume it, lies solely with the individual and their free will. Al Qur'an features commandment not to pray while drunk but to wait until you understand what you say. Stop ignoring the existence of this commandment, simply because it deflates your entire argument.Peace
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Indeed, the situation would not have arisen if one was not drinking in the first place. If alcohol was forbidden (and specifically listed as such) then a Muslim would not drink in the first place, so could never come to prayer while drunk. But. The very fact that that passage exists, shows that Allah knows that people can and will consume alcohol, so orders them not to pray while drunk, but to wait until they can understand what they are saying. If alcohol was utterly forbidden (it would be named thusly) the passage would be redundant, and, there is nothing redundant in Al Qur'an.
Umm... Any thoughts on this?
Al-Khamr, the word translated as "intoxicants", basically has three instances of its usage in the Book.
FREE MINDS
590 - O you who believe, intoxicants (Al-Khamr), and gambling, and altars, and arrows of chance are tools of affliction used by the devil. You shall avoid them so that you may be successful.591 - The devil only wants to cause strife between you through intoxicants (Al-Khamr) and gambling, and to repel you away from remembering God and from the contact-method. Will you not desist?
2219 - They ask you about intoxicants (Al-Khamr) and gambling. Say "In them is great harm, and a benefit for mankind; but their harm is greater than their benefit." And they ask you how much are they to give, Say "The excess." It is thus that God clarifies for you the revelations that you may think.
How I see these verse is an advice, but not just any advice. An advice from the Lord Himself.
590 - "... avoid them so you may be successful."
591 - "... Will you not desist?"
First the advice by Him, our Lord (590), then a rhetorical question (591). We all know well what importance a rhetorical question has in the Quran. e.g. 456. Then, a question by people about why should we desist and an answer in the form of 2219.
That is where it gets its importance for me. All other things that are forbidden are clearly forbidden for the believers. Ever wonder about those "minor" sins that aren't explicitly forbidden? Could they be a test in them for the believers? No test in the actions clearly forbidden, because carrying on those action is an act of a disbeliever. But here is a test for the believer. Will you, the believer, heed an advice from, none other than, your Lord and desist accordingly? Or will you say it is just an advice, it is our choice/free will whether we take it or not? We hear and we obey or we hear and we disobey, eh? Reminds of how when our parents advise us about something and we don't listen to them thinking that it's our life, however we see fit to live it and the scenario usually ends with a "I told you so" punchline. Anyway...
443 - O you who believe, do not come near the contact-method while you are intoxicated (sukara), until you know what you are saying. Nor if you have had intercourse, unless travelling, until you bathe. And if you are ill, or traveling, or one of you has excreted feces, or you had sexual contact with the women, and could not find water then you shall make ablution with clean soil by wiping your faces and hands. God is Pardoning, Forgiving.
About how the word "sukara" is traditionally translated, I am not too sure of. One would think that if Al-Khamr means an intoxicant, then the arabic word for intoxication would have come from the same root. IMO, I think the words that follow after "sukara" help in knowing the meaning of the word, "...until you know what you are saying". Of the various meanings attributed to the root of sukara, i.e., Siin-Kaf-Ra, IMO "A state of confusion" appears more appropriate considering the context. Can such a state only be brought about by drunkardness? No, because there are other causes of a state of confusion, not just drunkardness, like stress from proccupation with personal problems, sleep depravation (for other causes http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mental_confusion) etc. Will drunkardness be part of the possible scenarios causing such a state? Not if believers desist from drinking. Will the verse become redundant if believers do/can not drink? From the answers to the questions before, of course not.
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These are also Qurani Ayaat
2231
Do not play with Allah's Commandments6119
(6119) And how is it that you do not eat of that over which Allah's name has been pronounced even though He has clearly spelled out to you what He has forbidden you unless you are constrained to it? *85 Many indeed say misleading things without knowledge, driven merely by their lowly desires. But your Lord knows well the transgressors,
Salaam
of course I submit to the above along with all the rest of the Quran. peace -
Salaam
of course I submit to the above along with all the rest of the Quran. peaceThen what is you opinion who think that "Quran /Allah permits/allows 'satanic acts'"??
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Umm... Any thoughts on this?
Peace
Indeed. It is one person's interperetation of Qur'anic text. I see no reason why I should change my opinion, simply because someone else disagrees with my opinion.
With regard the final paragraph, I disagree with the opinion that the passage would not be redundant if Muslims cannot/do not consume intoxicants. If Muslims cannot consume intoxicants (and if so, please quote precicely where they are named as forbidden, in the same way that flesh of swine and fornication with one's mother in law are specifically named and forbidden) then there would not need for the passage, and it
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Also, answer the question of why would Allah give prophet Isa the power to turn water into wine, knowing that people would be "drinking freely" of it?
The passage might not appear in Al Qur'an, but, it is still attributed to one of Allah's prophets, and, Al Qur'an states to treat all prophets the same.That's faulty logic. The idea of turning water into wine isn't in the quran but the quran states it has the deen, fully explained. An inauthentic hadeeth, whether it is from Bukhari or Muslim, or Matthew or Mark, cannot be attached to the quran as a footnote - period. Is there any way you can prove the authenticity of that narration without basing it on hearsay and conjecture? NO.
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That's faulty logic. The idea of turning water into wine isn't in the quran but the quran states it has the deen, fully explained. An inauthentic hadeeth, whether it is from Bukhari or Muslim, or Matthew or Mark, cannot be attached to the quran as a footnote - period. Is there any way you can prove the authenticity of that narration without basing it on hearsay and conjecture? NO.
Peace
I did originally state that it was not a Qur'anic text, and although I certainly would not consider it as 100% accurate, as it is not a Qur'anic text, as it is on a related note to the issue (is alcohol specifically forbidden by Al Qur'an) it is certainly worth mentioning, even if just as a related issue to consider, rather than being considered as definite 'evidence' one way or another. As I have said numerous times now, my reading of Al Qur'an has not found any instance of alcohol being specifically named and forbidden, where flesh of swine, fornication with one's mother in law or sister in law, for example, are specifically named and forbidden. All I see, are severe warnings and rhetorical questions, which we are able to choose to agree with or ignore. As you yourself said, if a Muslim cannot consume alcohol, then the commandment not to come to prayer while drunk, would be redundant and irrelevent. I find nothing in Al Qur'an redundant or irrelevent.
Ultimately, this discussion has arrisen because people disagree with my personal choice, and feel that they have the right to change my opinion, without actually providing the necessary Qur'anic text to do so. I am not going to change my opinion without considerable Qur'anic proof that alcohol is specifically named and forbidden, so such cyclical arguments are pointless. I am content to continue as I am, and let Allah judge me when the time comes.
Peace.
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The quran seems to make a different case here, consider that it describes the consequences of this act and who endorses it as well. The consequences are rather clear, the path you will take is very clear and that path is definitely not the right path. Going back a page
Peace brother
Allah did not say that Alcohol is forbidden anywhere in Al Qur'an. Forbidden foods and acts are specified. Without specification, such things cannot be forbidden (even if warned against), they can only be left to a person's free will to choose for themself.
You have the free will and you are also told exactly where it will lead you.
you are clearly the one who cannot understand Qur'anic command not to come to prayer while drunk, but to wait till you understand what you say. For a Muslim to come to prayer drunk, then they must have consumed alcohol. If alcohol is forbidden (which it is not) then the command not to come to prayer while drunk would be redundant and irrelevent. Nothing in Al Qur'an is redundant or irrelevent.
Peace.
Salat is clearly intimately tied with the concept of being a muslim and keeping and strengthening your belief. This is where opinions will differ, because I just cannot see how coming to a ritual prayer drunk will do anything good or bad for you. You may get some Sunnis trying to beat you up with shoes (Bukhari, Volume 8, Book 81, Number 770, Narrated As-Sa'ib bin Yazid) but at the end of the day, how will it destroy your belief in god? So that is an inconsistency, not in the quran's commandment to avoid intoxication for salat but in the interpretation of salat itself.
You're absolutely right there about how non-believing Arabs are portrayed. However, there still exists the precedent of converts to Islam adopting Arabic names. Malcolm X, and Yussuf (Cat Stevens) Islam to name but two
Islam is both a personal and organized religion, organized because the people who observe it correctly WILL work together. Changing your name will have no effect on how god treats you and I guess it'll be quite a lot of bureaucracy involved.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but, in many passages in Al Qur'an, particularly ones refering to abstaining from certain things, or doing certain things (such as fasting) there is also the accompanying statement that Allah does not wish difficulty for us, but wishes for our ease. Is that not correct?
Definitely, in the fasting verses IIRC.
In the situation I encountered, before my immediate family had come to undestand my conversion to Islam, keeping to the fast on that occasion would have created numerous difficulties, and served to alienate me from those I love. Also, as we travelled 60 miles for the meal, I forget if it is specified in Al Qur'an or sunnah/hadith, but I read online, in my research into Islam and Ramadan in particular, that someone travelling such a distance, does not actually have to observe the fast as they are travelling.
If you want, go right ahead. It doesn't affect me, I have little knowledge of what's going on, and at the end of the day, you won't be answering to me for your actions.
That is an utterly ludicrous extrapolation. No one was being crucified in the restaurant. There were no lives in danger (other than from possible food poisoning ) so the situation really isn't comparable at all.
That was the whole point. If you don't have the willpower to keep a reasonably trivial thing like a fast (let's keep this disconnected from your actual experience, for sheer ease), then how could you have the willpower to speak out in a worse condition?
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You have the free will and you are also told exactly where it will lead you.
Peace
Therefore it is my choice, and me alone, who will, if it is Allah's will, be punished for that. I would think that many other good acts, will be taken into consideration of something, which is only advised/warned against, but not specifically forbidden.
Salat is clearly intimately tied with the concept of being a muslim and keeping and strengthening your belief. This is where opinions will differ, because I just cannot see how coming to a ritual prayer drunk will do anything good or bad for you. You may get some Sunnis trying to beat you up with shoes (Bukhari, Volume 8, Book 81, Number 770, Narrated As-Sa'ib bin Yazid) but at the end of the day, how will it destroy your belief in god? So that is an inconsistency, not in the quran's commandment to avoid intoxication for salat but in the interpretation of salat itself.
I agree, praying while drunk will not destroy someone's belief in Allah. It is, however, as disrespectfull, and ill-advised, as phoning someone you love while intoxicated, and expecting them to take anything uttered in that state seriously.
That is why I never pray while drunk, and indeed, as I stated several times do not even drink enough to become intoxicated on the rare occasions when I do consume alcohol.
Islam is both a personal and organized religion, organized because the people who observe it correctly WILL work together. Changing your name will have no effect on how god treats you and I guess it'll be quite a lot of bureaucracy involved.
Forgive my ignorance, brother, but how is that statement (as accurate as it is) in any way relevent to this discussion? I am only using an Arabic name on this forum, as it is in keeping with the subject of discussion. I have no intention whatsoever to take the steps to make it my legal name or be known by it outside of this forum.
Definitely, in the fasting verses IIRC.
And in many other verses as well, but indeed, specifically in the fasting verses. The point being, the fast is not intended to cause difficulties, as Allah wishes our ease. There are also conditions where the fast is not required. If one does not have to make the fast due to those conditions (travel, for example) then not fasting on that day, while technically breaking the practice of fasting for the month of Ramadan, is not invalidating a day's fast, as the conditions state one does not have to fast while under those conditions.
If you want, go right ahead. It doesn't affect me, I have little knowledge of what's going on, and at the end of the day, you won't be answering to me for your actions.
Indeed, I will not. Nor will Allah hold the 'broken fast' against me, as He will know firstly, that had the day been a regular day, then I would have kept the fast, as I had kept every other fast during Ramadan to that period, so I will be judged by my intention, and secondly, He will know, that by travelling that distance, the stipulation to fast was lifted, so it was not required of me on that day.
That was the whole point. If you don't have the willpower to keep a reasonably trivial thing like a fast (let's keep this disconnected from your actual experience, for sheer ease), then how could you have the willpower to speak out in a worse condition?
No, let's keep it connected to my experience, because it was exceptional circumstances, rather than any other day for fasting. As mentioned previously, had I chosen to keep the fast on that day (which, due to travel I was not obliged to do) then that would have created signifigant difficulties and ill-feeling among my family, and, as mentioned, Allah does not wish us difficulty, but wishes our ease. Other than that one day, I kept every other fast during Ramadan, both before, and after that day, and have also fasted several times since then. My will-power is not the issue. The issue, was the circumstances involved, and how keeping the fast would have done more harm than good.
Peace
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Peace and greetings, brothers and sisters.
I have been reading the forum, and felt it time to register. I am a recent convert to Islam, and, from my studies, have always found myself fitting into the Qur'an-Only aspect of Islam, as I feel that a person should look to a religion's scripture, rather than the practices and dogma of it's contemporary followers, many of which, are of practices never mentioned in the original scripture.
I have never been a particularly religious person, but I have always been a spritual one, and, when I started reading the Holy Qur'an several months ago, I found myself agreeing with the message within, and strove to incorporate that into my everyday life. It was not long after that, that I experienced ihsan, and realized that I should be a Muslim, and live my life as the Holy Qur'an dictates, so that is what I have done, and have felt incredible peace and benefit from it.
I chose this forum name(s) as they describe me as a person. I have not changed my name to an Islamic one, but for such a forum, I felt it appropriate to use an Islamic name, and one which described me seemed the best way to go, rather than to simply choose something I liked, or at random, or even the closest equivelent to my own name.
One aspect of my lifestyle which others might not agree with, is that I occasionally drink alcohol. My reading of the Holy Qur'an, is that there is no passage which specifically forbids the consumption of alcohol, as there are passages which specifically forbid the consumption of flesh of swine. There are, however, passages which state not to come to prayer while intoxicated (which in itself would require the drinking of alcohol) but to wait until one can understand what one utters, so indeed, as is only correct and respectful, I do not pray while drunk (infact, I never drink enough to become intoxicated) Other passages point out there being more sin than profit in wine and games of chance, but, they do not specifically forbid them They simply point out the issue, and then allows people to make their own choice, as indeed, Allah grants us all free will to make our own choices. My choice is that I occasionally drink alcohol (never to excess) as there is no commandment specifically forbidding it. I have never particularly enjoyed pork products, so that is not a difficult thing to give up, and, thanks to the guidance of brother Muslims at my local kebab shop, I am able to eat halal food daily. Indeed, these brothers were instromental in my decision to convert, as they were the ones who, upon learning that I had started reading the Holy Qur'an, encouraged my studies, and treated me like a brother.
My conversion came just before Ramadan, and I observed it fully, breaking only one fast, and that was to attend a dinner for my mother in law's birthday in early October. Initially, I felt like I had let myself and Allah down, by not sticking to the fast, but, my brother in the kebab shop pointed out that there are many Muslims who do not keep to the fasts at all, and, that I had eaten out of social politeness, not because I wanted to break the fast, so that greatly lifted my spirits, and I made up the fast as soon as was permissable afterwards.
I look forward to learning more from everyone here.
Peace be upon you.Peace Brother, welcome
I am really happy for you and take your time brother to get accustomed to the Deen. Don't let any one here stress you out about it. It is my firm belief that God is far more understanding and compassionate and forgiving than any of us frail humans.
The fact that He has opened your heart to Islam is in itself a great sign of His favor to you, so don't be disheartened by any of the less understanding comments here. I am a revert myself so I think I have a better grasp, than those who were born into the faith, of the challenges that face a new Muslim.
My heartfelt congratulations on this great event in your life brother and may God be with you and ever guide you! D
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Peace
Therefore it is my choice, and me alone, who will, if it is Allah's will, be punished for that. I would think that many other good acts, will be taken into consideration of something, which is only advised/warned against, but not specifically forbidden.
Peace, just because it's your choice doesn't mean you alone will reap the benefits and harms of alcohol. So you drink and are happy. Your neighbour sees a drunkard on the street (i.e. you) - big deal, you're entitled to your fun. So it continues, and all sorts of things happen until you hop in your car and mow a kid down - big deal? Definitely. Just because the majority get away with casual drinking the majority of the time doesn't mean the combined effects of the problematic minority and also the majority of people who just happen to have issues at the moment, will be insignificant. Not specifically forbidden - 100%. But whereas the quran has a blanket ban on things like pork, without a specific reason, there is no ban here but there is a reason, or rather, a consequence given.
I agree, praying while drunk will not destroy someone's belief in Allah. It is, however, as disrespectfull, and ill-advised, as phoning someone you love while intoxicated, and expecting them to take anything uttered in that state seriously.
Do you believe that bowing up and down opens a connection to a pervasive, all-knowing and all-hearing entity?
Forgive my ignorance, brother, but how is that statement (as accurate as it is) in any way relevent to this discussion? I am only using an Arabic name on this forum, as it is in keeping with the subject of discussion. I have no intention whatsoever to take the steps to make it my legal name or be known by it outside of this forum.
Just to pound the point through voodoo
And in many other verses as well, but indeed, specifically in the fasting verses. The point being, the fast is not intended to cause difficulties, as Allah wishes our ease. There are also conditions where the fast is not required. If one does not have to make the fast due to those conditions (travel, for example) then not fasting on that day, while technically breaking the practice of fasting for the month of Ramadan, is not invalidating a day's fast, as the conditions state one does not have to fast while under those conditions.
Like I said, you're not answering to me and I don't know anything about your fast so - -\
No, let's keep it connected to my experience, because it was exceptional circumstances, rather than any other day for fasting. As mentioned previously, had I chosen to keep the fast on that day (which, due to travel I was not obliged to do) then that would have created signifigant difficulties and ill-feeling among my family, and, as mentioned, Allah does not wish us difficulty, but wishes our ease. Other than that one day, I kept every other fast during Ramadan, both before, and after that day, and have also fasted several times since then. My will-power is not the issue. The issue, was the circumstances involved, and how keeping the fast would have done more harm than good.
Fair enough. I'm just saying that it takes a bit of sacrifice and coming out of your comfort zone to really achieve anything and do it well.
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Peace, just because it's your choice doesn't mean you alone will reap the benefits and harms of alcohol. So you drink and are happy. Your neighbour sees a drunkard on the street (i.e. you) - big deal, you're entitled to your fun. So it continues, and all sorts of things happen until you hop in your car and mow a kid down - big deal? Definitely. Just because the majority get away with casual drinking the majority of the time doesn't mean the combined effects of the problematic minority and also the majority of people who just happen to have issues at the moment, will be insignificant. Not specifically forbidden - 100%. But whereas the quran has a blanket ban on things like pork, without a specific reason, there is no ban here but there is a reason, or rather, a consequence given.
Do you believe that bowing up and down opens a connection to a pervasive, all-knowing and all-hearing entity?
Just to pound the point through voodoo
Like I said, you're not answering to me and I don't know anything about your fast so - -\
Fair enough. I'm just saying that it takes a bit of sacrifice and coming out of your comfort zone to really achieve anything and do it well.
brickwall brickwall brickwall