Msjid Al Haraam
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OPF
I did not put the 'kybalion' OVER the Qur'an. (BTW the kybalion has nothing to do with astrology.) And I did NOT say the Qur'an 'was weaker' than the kybalion. Bite your tongue!
If you would have read my posts in other topics in the past you would know that I have stated that I understand that God's laws of creation are the clear ayat that are out there for all to read and see. This is my point. This was my original point. Still is my point.
You saying that the Qur'an must 'sanction' the laws of the universe is silly. They are what God is telling us to think about and see in so many places. A person does not need to prove anything mathmatically, you just live your life and learn. This has been around since the beginning of time (as I stated before). You're missing my point all together.
I'm sorry OPF, you're just not getting it and I certainly cannot make the 'blind' see.
So.....you 'see' it your way, and I'll see it mine, and in the end, the Truth will prevail. giveup
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Hi Sr Ilisa,
I hope this isn't too long.
We have seen/understood your face turning around in the sky??.
The last time I checked the word meanings-
Should be something like;We have seen your ways changing in attitude; we will appoint you a direction you accept??keep to mind, what is forbidden.
Some people might have wondered from time to time the following ayah
2146 the people of the Book know this as they know their own sons; but some of them conceal the truth which they themselves know.
Now just think back what Pharaoh did to the sons of the Israelites! The mass slaughter!
And that is why they aught to know- their Masjid Al Haram.
2150
???and wheresoever ye are, Turn your face thither that there be no ground of dispute against you among the people, except those of them that are bent on wickedness??.The only way people can obliterate disputes is if they keep minding what is forbidden and learn to avoid it.
936
Verily the number of ways of approaching others/interactions between people, with Allah, are twelve interactions in the Book of Allah ????.of those four are forbidden???..53 four shahr forbidden.
To forbid causing death.
To forbid the bloodshed.
To forbid vilification with pride.
To forbid doing opposite to Allah or according to other then Allah ? Strangling, beating, repelling, corruption and that you devour by obscenity or lewdness except what is legal to you and what lawful by labor and the seeking of knowledge of fate through divination.All these things the people of the book went through when they where subdued by the people of pharaoh- So they aught to remember.
Thanks All.
God Bless you.
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Hi Sr Ilisa,
I hope this isn't too long.
We have seen/understood your face turning around in the sky??.
The last time I checked the word meanings-
Should be something like;We have seen your ways changing in attitude; we will appoint you a direction you accept??keep to mind, what is forbidden.
Some people might have wondered from time to time the following ayah
Now just think back what Pharaoh did to the sons of the Israelites! The mass slaughter!
And that is why they aught to know- their Masjid Al Haram.
The only way people can obliterate disputes is if they keep minding what is forbidden and learn to avoid it.
936
Verily the number of ways of approaching others/interactions between people, with Allah, are twelve interactions in the Book of Allah ????.of those four are forbidden???..53 four shahr forbidden.
To forbid causing death.
To forbid the bloodshed.
To forbid vilification with pride.
To forbid doing opposite to Allah or according to other then Allah ? Strangling, beating, repelling, corruption and that you devour by obscenity or lewdness except what is legal to you and what lawful by labor and the seeking of knowledge of fate through divination.All these things the people of the book went through when they where subdued by the people of pharaoh- So they aught to remember.
Thanks All.
God Bless you.
This is just superb exegesis. But do the meanings fit? If so, they are by far this is the best explanation I have seen for "hajj" and so forth. I don't know, it's just amazing how it fits and you seem to have done it through cross-reference.
In 53 I count 11 forbidden things and I'm not sure where you got the 4 from - are those the categories instead of each item mentioned?
Again, amazing, keep up the good work. sun
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Hi OPF,
Why do you say this is what hajj is Br.?
And the 11 or 4 forbidden;
2173
He hath only forbidden you dead meat, and blood, and the flesh of swine, and that on which any other name hath been invoked besides that of Allah. But if one is forced by necessity, without wilful disobedience, nor transgressing due limits,- then is he guiltless. For Allah is Oft-forgiving Most Merciful53
Forbidden to you (for food) are dead meat, blood, the flesh of swine, and that on which hath been invoked the name of other than Allah; that which hath been killed by strangling, or by a violent blow, or by a headlong fall, or by being gored to death; that which hath been (partly) eaten by a wild animal; unless ye are able to slaughter it (in due form); that which is sacrificed on stone (altars); (forbidden) also is the division (of meat) by raffling with arrows that is impiety. This day have those who reject faith given up all hope of your religion yet fear them not but fear Me. This day have I perfected your religion for you, completed My favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion. But if any is forced by hunger, with no inclination to transgression, Allah is indeed Oft-forgiving, Most MercifulIf you see the two ayah?s are basically the same but 53 gives a further breakdown of the fourth forbidden thing.
Gods Blessings.
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Hi OPF,
Why do you say this is what hajj is Br.?
And the 11 or 4 forbidden;
2173
He hath only forbidden you dead meat, and blood, and the flesh of swine, and that on which any other name hath been invoked besides that of Allah. But if one is forced by necessity, without wilful disobedience, nor transgressing due limits,- then is he guiltless. For Allah is Oft-forgiving Most Merciful53
Forbidden to you (for food) are dead meat, blood, the flesh of swine, and that on which hath been invoked the name of other than Allah; that which hath been killed by strangling, or by a violent blow, or by a headlong fall, or by being gored to death; that which hath been (partly) eaten by a wild animal; unless ye are able to slaughter it (in due form); that which is sacrificed on stone (altars); (forbidden) also is the division (of meat) by raffling with arrows that is impiety. This day have those who reject faith given up all hope of your religion yet fear them not but fear Me. This day have I perfected your religion for you, completed My favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion. But if any is forced by hunger, with no inclination to transgression, Allah is indeed Oft-forgiving, Most MercifulIf you see the two ayahs are basically the same but 53 gives a further breakdown of the fourth forbidden thing.
Gods Blessings.
Hajj and Ramadan and fasting and so forth are related in my eyes, not sure why I wrote that but what I meant was Ramadan. It would come from
022.026 - And when We assigned to Ibrahim the place of the House, saying Do not associate with Me aught, and purify My House for those who make the circuit and stand to pray and bow and prostrate themselves.
022.027 - And proclaim among men the Pilgrimage they will come to you on foot and on every lean camel, coming from every remote path,
If you see the two ayahs are basically the same but 53 gives a further breakdown of the fourth forbidden thing.
Ah, it's what lack of sleep does... Thanks.
Thus would there be 4 more or 8 more forbidden (or the opposite) in 6151-153?
6151 - Say Come I will recite what your Lord has forbidden to you-- (remember) that you do not associate anything with Him and show kindness to your parents, and do not slay your children for (fear of) poverty-- We provide for you and for them-- and do not draw nigh to indecencies, those of them which are apparent and those which are concealed, and do not kill the soul which Allah has forbidden except for the requirements of justice; this He has enjoined you with that you may understand.
6152 - And do not approach the property of the orphan except in the best manner until he attains his maturity, and give full measure and weight with justice-- We do not impose on any soul a duty except to the extent of its ability; and when you speak, then be just though it be (against) a relative, and fulfill Allah's covenant; this He has enjoined you with that you may be mindful;
And this explanation would explain the apparent sudden change of context into 6154 where it mentions Moses recieving the book. 10 commandments or 12 commandments?
Aah, it all fits together
6156 - Lest ye should say "The Book was sent down to two Peoples before us, and for our part, we remained unacquainted with all that they learned by assiduous study" (10 commandments in such a form)
2 parties = Christians, Jews
6157 - Or lest you should say If the Book had been revealed to us, we would certainly have been better guided than they, so indeed there has come to you clear proof from your Lord, and guidance and mercy. Who then is more unjust than he who rejects Allah's communications and turns away from them? We will reward those who turn away from Our communications with an evil chastisement because they turned away.
This is just very eloquent. Beautiful....
So then, 6151-153 and 2173 denote all of the commandments expounded in detail and 6154 thus shows that there is no difference between Mosaic teaching and what's in the quran, even if people want to separate (6159).
And so, 6158 -
They do not wait aught but that the angels should come to them, or that your Lord should come, or that some of the signs of your Lord should come. On the day when some of the signs of your Lord shall come, its faith shall not profit a soul which did not believe before, or earn good through its faith. Say Wait; we too are waiting.
And what happens on the day the signs are apparent? See 8219.
How would you render this then? -
4825 - It is they who disbelieved and turned you away from the Sacred Mosque and (turned off) the offering withheld from arriving at its destined place; and were it not for the believing men and the believing women, whom, not having known, you might have trodden down, and thus something hateful might have afflicted you on their account without knowledge-- so that Allah may cause to enter into His mercy whomsoever He pleases; had they been widely separated one from another, We would surely have punished those who disbelieved from among them with a painful punishment.
peace
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Salaams OPF,
I think-
8-shahrencouraged
9112
To return from sin or disobedience.
To imbibe and reflect on Gods attributes.
To speak well of (others).
To devote oneself for others.
To be humble - not proud or not believing that you are important
To accept Godly authorities.
To enjoin good and forbid evil.
To observe the limits set by God.4825
Human shield or hostages.They are the ones who disbelieved and hindered you from the Haraam tactics( the attack/ the raid/ the onslaught) and the plan stopped from reaching its conclusion. Had there not been believing men and believing women whom ye did not know, that you might kill them and on whose account a crime would have accrued to you without (your) knowledge, that He may admit to His Mercy whom He will. If they had been apart, We should certainly have punished the Unbelievers among them with a grievous Punishment.
Good hunting.
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Well who would this group be then? -
2146 the people of the Book know this as they know their own sons; but some of them conceal the truth which they themselves know.
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Well who would this group be then? -
Salaams OPF,
Isn't it those- of the people of the book who are doing wrong to others? when actually they aught to be the last people to do the wrongs having been through the greatest of sufferrings and humiliations in the world.
It's like the Jews having gone through the holocaust should remember the horrific pains they went through, what their masters the Germans did to them - but some of them neglect to see their own past sufferings and yet they do the same to the Palestinians ? as I see.
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I think there's a similarity between the holocaust of 194x and of the Jewish excursion, both were "saved" by an external power (although moses seems to have done it almost single handedly?) and now they wreak havoc, just as before.
I think interpreting it like this changes the message a lot, but some things are far, far clearer now. The quran suddenly jumps to Abraham or Moses quite a lot and now it makes much more sense as to why.
Would you agree that the 'book' talked about is simply the 10 or 12 commandments given to Moses, Abraham and loads of others before (ref 6156)? Then the quran is a detailed explanation of these commandments (1037) and that explains better as to why it is 'fully detailed' and it gives us a scope as to what it means by "every example" (6114).
What about 1591 anyway? That does seem a little odd. Who split the quran up? Into what? In 151 it states these are the verses and then goes on but in 241, it's described as a chapter. So is the quran one contiguous book as implied in 1591, with chapters in 241, but why does it shift towards saying ayatu in 151?
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I think there's a similarity between the holocaust of 194x and of the Jewish excursion, both were "saved" by an external power (although moses seems to have done it almost single handedly?) and now they wreak havoc, just as before.
I think interpreting it like this changes the message a lot, but some things are far, far clearer now. The quran suddenly jumps to Abraham or Moses quite a lot and now it makes much more sense as to why.
Would you agree that the 'book' talked about is simply the 10 or 12 commandments given to Moses, Abraham and loads of others before (ref 6156)? Then the quran is a detailed explanation of these commandments (1037) and that explains better as to why it is 'fully detailed' and it gives us a scope as to what it means by "every example" (6114).
What about 1591 anyway? That does seem a little odd. Who split the quran up? Into what? In 151 it states these are the verses and then goes on but in 241, it's described as a chapter. So is the quran one contiguous book as implied in 1591, with chapters in 241, but why does it shift towards saying ayatu in 151?
I hope it helps.
Using Quranic Dictionary and............
1591
(So also on such) as have made the Qur'an/Transmission into a pack of lies (as they please).151
A. L. R. These are the signs/Tips of the good standered from the Alkitab/great ordeals/happenings; - of a Qur'an/reading/transmission that makes things clear.241
Some eminent information which We have revealed and which We have ordained/explained in it clear Signs/tips/good habits, in order that ye may receive ADMONITION.Salaams.
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1591
I would translate it"They made/altered/created the quran into parts/bits/lies"
I think it's referring to those who corrupt the quran and/or it's message. Tying into 2530?
151 You can cross-reference how al-kitaab (the scripture/book) is used. Some wonderful examples are 2213, *638, *684-89, 2740, etc...
For people of the book, Try 364-65, 370-71, 398-99, 4171, 515, 519, 577 etc...
*Carefully study the context.
Sources
PRL, Text in motion
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1591
I would translate it"They made/altered/created the quran into parts/bits/lies"
I think it's referring to those who corrupt the quran and/or it's message. Tying into 2530?
151 You can cross-reference how al-kitaab (the scripture/book) is used. Some wonderful examples are 2213, *638, *684-89, 2740, etc...
For people of the book, Try 364-65, 370-71, 398-99, 4171, 515, 519, 577 etc...
*Carefully study the context.
Sources
PRL, Text in motion
Salaams MD,
So you are an MD and haven't so far realised books don't materialise or fall from the skies above.
Hard to believe but then again if you try convincing the Christians how can God have a son- they will look at you in way to show you don't have any belief.......
normal translation;
........He sent the Book in truth
to judge between people in matters wherein they differed.....lastly please tell us what happened to books which must have come to the rest of mankind or is the God prejudicial and only sends books to the middle east or something?
God Bless.
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Hey MD, I don't think you should be so defensive ;D, loosen up.
But my question is, does 'al-kitab' refer to Moses' commandments? That is all.
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OPF
I did not put the 'kybalion' OVER the Qur'an. (BTW the kybalion has nothing to do with astrology.) And I did NOT say the Qur'an 'was weaker' than the kybalion. Bite your tongue!
If you would have read my posts in other topics in the past you would know that I have stated that I understand that God's laws of creation are the clear ayat that are out there for all to read and see. This is my point. This was my original point. Still is my point.
You saying that the Qur'an must 'sanction' the laws of the universe is silly. They are what God is telling us to think about and see in so many places. A person does not need to prove anything mathmatically, you just live your life and learn. This has been around since the beginning of time (as I stated before). You're missing my point all together.
I'm sorry OPF, you're just not getting it and I certainly cannot make the 'blind' see.
So.....you 'see' it your way, and I'll see it mine, and in the end, the Truth will prevail. giveup
Peace...
I don't think it'll go anywhere. Looking back I think I was too rough about your beliefs, sorry.
You saying that the Qur'an must 'sanction' the laws of the universe is silly. They are what God is telling us to think about and see in so many places.
And why, pray tell, does the quran refer to the signs of this world so much then? Of course it sanctions the laws of the universe, if you believe that the quran is the word of god, the same which created this universe, don't you have any faith in the book making accurate/correct predictions and pointing us to the right things to look for?
A person does not need to prove anything mathmatically, you just live your life and learn. This has been around since the beginning of time (as I stated before). You're missing my point all together.
If you make a statement about something verifiable, is it too much to ask that you give it a way to be verified? By any means possible? I just want you to put some solid foundations behind your idea, as in (I think).
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Salaam Simple,
First, I am not an MD (long story).
I don't believe the above!
Hi MD,
I think these ayah's might shed some light- to show Kitaab isn't/wasn't a book.
424,659,868,936?.e.t.c
and OPF to my understanding "No" the commandments are not the Al-Kitab- although the commandments where a
result of the Al-kitaab of Moses or rather the pains sufferrings the ordeals Moses went through and as a consequence was rewarded with the commandments- he was enlightened.Then again we can only see things in a certain light - according to our own experiances.
God Bless.
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Salaam Simple,
Are you saying that Al Kitaab is limited to Moses only?
"No" Br,
Al-Kitab means something like "Trials and tribulations" to my understanding and that is something most people experience and learn from if they be wise.
Its not a book.
Thanks.
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Greetings OPF,
Looking back I think I was too rough about your beliefs, sorry.
I'm very grateful for the lighter tone and the open heart. Thank you.
And why, pray tell, does the quran refer to the signs of this world so much then? Of course it sanctions the laws of the universe, if you believe that the quran is the word of god, the same which created this universe, don't you have any faith in the book making accurate/correct predictions and pointing us to the right things to look for?
Guess it was the word 'sanctions' that I was bristling to. I do have faith in the book. I consider it 'al-Furqan'.
If you make a statement about something verifiable, is it too much to ask that you give it a way to be verified? By any means possible? I just want you to put some solid foundations behind your idea, as in (I think).
'Any means possible' is good, 'mathematical' - I couldn't do without a lot of study! Not my field.
is a beautiful ayah. And of interest here to since it uses the analogy of 'building which they have built'. In the same light as the usage of 'masjid alharam' -- as far as it not being a physical 'building'.
But as for my proof, my proof is born out of a general understanding and a day to day living and perhaps an inherently different outlook on the world and the events that happen around me. And this is, again, my point. God's inviolable laws are the laws that you live with every day, that once you learn them, they will never fail you.
For instance, to bring in my practice of homeopathy, I know that if I see a child fall down and bump his head on the corner of a table while I'm sitting with him, that if I can get the remedy Arnica montana in 30c or 200c potency to him ASAP that I will be able to hold him on my lap and watch the spot on his head turn from bright red, possibly bleeding and swelling, to a light red, flat spot in a matter of a few minutes. I know this from experience.
I learned the treatment via a book that I had read during the time of my studies of homeopathy. The thought and the procedure then entered my mind, waiting for the perfect opportunity to try it out to see if the treatment truly did work. The first time I tried it, I wasn't sure of what would really happen. But I had faith and I did it anyway, and was soon amazed by what happened before my eyes. It seemed an impossibility. I have to say that I couldn't believe my eyes. This was just too cool to be true!
Then another similar opportunity happened and I gave the same treatment. Again what I had read in the book was verified by life experience. The book wasn't the Qur'an, but it was a book that explained how I can work with an inviolable law of God (III. THE PRINCIPLE OF VIBRATION) in order to achieve what seemed to be a miraculous outcome.
To summarize --
My proof is to
- acquire the thought (concept),
2)act on it,
3)then watch and learn, and act on it again, then watch and learn (percept).
It doesn't really matter where you get the original thought from. By acting on the thought, you will soon learn whether your source is a source of Truth or not. If it's not, trust me, you won't be going back for more!
Thank you again for the opportunity to further explain. handshake
- acquire the thought (concept),