another simple question to gauge traditional mindset...
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Peace dear brother OPF,
I'm afraid you are contradicting yourself, in a very indirect way. Take 3191 - does it tell you the actual purpose? It just tells us that we exist with a purpose. Where in the quran is it noted that the purpose of a beard is so and so, or even the purpose of hair is so and so? For instance, somewhere in the beginning of surah 55, it describes various things and lists their purposes - but these are far larger than a person's beard.
No it doesn't tell what purpose, it tells that there are purposes - so let's not discredit it if it comes up naturally. That's what I mean.
So where is the indirect contradiction? When you assigned a beard a purpose, that's where. God may have assigned the purpose, rather the beard grows out because it HAS a purpose (as opposed to a situation where the beard does NOT grow, because it has no purpose) - as you said
I suggested what benefits it can give. I am never to "assign" or know all the purposes God created things for. I don't know everything, but there are purposes.
Location, environment is clearly very much related. There's no contradiction here because many benefits are related to the environment of each geographic locations. For example, Arabs have much longer eyebrows than south-east Asians. Or Asian buffaloes have no thick hair but north American buffaloes do - this doesn't mean that there's no purpose of its long hair as you suggest simply because Asian buffaloes don't have long hair. There are and, as we agree, very much related to geographic location and environment.
So to say the beard is this, or that, is really dependant on where you live and how you live. And the fact of the matter is that a beard is not needed to live (i.e. in a western country) in the way it is in other places, and in the same manner of clipping toenails, it should really be shaved off (just to keep the work/time spent cleaning it down). I'm sure there is a purpose for the beard in other places but let's face it, it's hardly useful in the context of this thread. As for identifying the sexes, you would think there are slightly more apparent things.
Peace dear brother, I would not like to re-type things again. If you mis-understand my point, I can't always come here to re-type things.
In any case, 'natural' is as subjective as it gets. If you wanted to be objective, then 'natural' is something that obeys the laws of physics, full stop. Otherwise you get all sorts of things that are "natural" and "unnatural" and going into that just ends up making ridiculous, artificial rules (ahem).
No, never full stop - there's so many things God designed other than the laws called physics.
I didn't make rules - I just want to say that "if you have long beard or long hair, it doesn't mean you're dirty - it depends on how you clean it".
Peace,
Zidane. -
Peace,
Let's get straight to the point
I didn't make rules - I just want to say that "if you have long beard or long hair, it doesn't mean you're dirty - it depends on how you clean it".
That, doesn't help. Let's keep things constant and vary one thing at a time - Person X has a beard or does not have a beard. When Person X has a beard, they are more susceptible to getting dirty - just a pretty blunt and simple fact, just as having unclipped nails makes you more susceptible to dirt.
If Person X wants to keep the beard and keep clean, then it's a simple fact that they have to do more work than Person Y without a beard. So it really is up to the person themselves as to whether they want to keep a beard.
Going back to the original point, Sunni-ism and indeed islam in general emphasises cleanliness & purification from dirt, metaphorical or physical, above everything else. So making the beard a large point of faith is counter-intuitive because it goes against the ideal set out in the first place. You just pointed out that Person X could clean it - which is very well and true - but that runs, I believe, somewhat against .
Regardless, it's very subjective. There is a whole surah expounding that we should also be hard workers, even when "the coast is clear", i.e. no work is needed to be done - and hey, I'm sure that everyone here can testify to that. Would you rather spend a time period cleaning your beard or doing something genuinely productive?
Some people just don't want beards and some do - let's just leave it at that. To say either a beard or no beard is endorsed by God - bring your proof. Saying that it's there, so it must be useful to us(i.e. something definitely not mentioned in that verse you cited) is not a proof.
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Peace,
Let's get straight to the point
That, doesn't help. Let's keep things constant and vary one thing at a time - Person X has a beard or does not have a beard. When Person X has a beard, they are more susceptible to getting dirty - just a pretty blunt and simple fact, just as having unclipped nails makes you more susceptible to dirt.
If Person X wants to keep the beard and keep clean, then it's a simple fact that they have to do more work than Person Y without a beard. So it really is up to the person themselves as to whether they want to keep a beard.
Going back to the original point, Sunni-ism and indeed islam in general emphasises cleanliness & purification from dirt, metaphorical or physical, above everything else. So making the beard a large point of faith is counter-intuitive because it goes against the ideal set out in the first place. You just pointed out that Person X could clean it - which is very well and true - but that runs, I believe, somewhat against .
Regardless, it's very subjective. There is a whole surah expounding that we should also be hard workers, even when "the coast is clear", i.e. no work is needed to be done - and hey, I'm sure that everyone here can testify to that. Would you rather spend a time period cleaning your beard or doing something genuinely productive?
Some people just don't want beards and some do - let's just leave it at that. To say either a beard or no beard is endorsed by God - bring your proof. Saying that it's there, so it must be useful to us(i.e. something definitely not mentioned in that verse you cited) is not a proof.
Great logical explanation bro, and powerful arguments. I like when people put logic into the microscope so we can see it clearly. Having a beard is stupid unless you are a scientist or a author that doesn't have time to cut your beard. And even in that situation it is not recommended by the quran to be unhealthy by having a beard.
Peace David
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Peace dear brother Zidane,
My point was that God wants us to use the tools that he provided for us. In order to be clean you have to be dirty first. Similarly, maybe The God wanted us to shave, that's why our facial hair grows. The God doesn't want to hand things to us. Think about why the birth process is so painful. Life isn't supposed to be easy, similarly creating life is also not supposed to be easy.
I know you are only trying to being objective here.
I do agree that there's a reason for everything.
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Salam,
Respectfully.Just ask them this where in The Quran does it say Thou Shall Not Cut The Beard!
Because they always run towards hadith books, that alone means that such a person does not believe in The Power of God. God is The Most Powerful and He does NOT forget.Peace.
The reason is normally, "we have to live in the way of the prophet" (paraphrased from the Quran) which then brings a whole heap of questions; do we go the extreme like the founder of the Hanbali legal tradition and refuse to eat watermelon because there is no evidence that Muhammad ate watermelon?
For me one has to be pragmatic about these things; ask yourself; does it affect your religious duty as to whether or not you wear a beard; if we also believe and follow Jesus as well, what did he say about superficial things like beard growing? (aka earthly superficialities)
The hadith for me is a book of guides, not all of them are relevant, not all of them are reliable, but there is a degree of truth in them; its up to us to use our commonsense.
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Peace,
It is a matter of personal choice to have a beard or not.
Read the history how shaving got introduced since men appeared on earth.
http//people.howstuffworks.com/shaving.htm
This website is one of the best sites that describe everyday life in the light of science by experts in their fields.
Below is a passage from the article,
I don't know about you, but every morning I shave. It's a ritual -- shower, comb hair, shave, brush teeth, dress.
Showering is easy to understand. If you don't shower, you start to stink. Combing the hair is easy to understand too, because it would be a mess if you didn't comb it. If you don't brush your teeth, they rot and fall out. And dressing, obviously, is a necessity.
But why is it that, for a majority of men, all facial hair must be removed? There certainly isn't any health reason to shave it off. Why would we spend the time and money to go through this ritual each and every day?
And what about the technology of shaving? A number of companies in the United States and around the world make billions of dollars off of the simple act of shaving. These companies release new products constantly. Is all of this technology really necessary?
In this article, we will look at the social phenomenon of shaving. Then we'll learn about the evolution of shaving technology, starting with the straight razor and advancing through today's multi-bladed technology and electric razors.
Why Men Shave ?
For most of human history, men have had beards. And it is easy to understand why. Cave men had beards because they had no choice -- they lacked any kind of blade to shave their beards off.
Many religions also have prohibitions against shaving. For example, in Leviticus 1927, the Bible contains a specific prohibition against shaving your beard and the hair on the sides of your head. Some orthodox religions still practice this today.
Once metallurgy has been refined in any civilization, however, the technology of knives and scissors follows soon after. These cutting tools become more and more refined, and these refinements lead to the development of the razor -- the sharpest knife possible. With a very sharp knife, it is possible to begin shaving.
Even with these developments, however, men preferred beards. This may be because shaving with a straight razor is a somewhat dangerous activity better left to a professional. Unless you live in a city and are wealthy, being able to find and afford a shaving professional is difficult. And so, all the way up to the 20th century, beards were fashionable and most men wore them.
But during World War I in the United States, that all changed. And there were two reasons for that change
Gillette had released the "safety razor" in 1901, and it was steadily gaining popularity because of a massive ad campaign. The safety razor made it possible and inexpensive for men to shave daily.
Soldiers in the United States army were required to shave.
Certainly one reason for shaving during WWI is the fact that it was the first war to see chemical agents used on the battlefield. Soldiers had to use gas masks for the first time. In order for a gas mask to fit properly, you need to be clean-shaven. The army bought millions of Gillette razors and blades to make shaving possible.
When all of the soldiers returned from WWI with their clean-shaven faces, they were heroes. They appeared in their home towns, and they also appeared in newsreels in the new movie theaters that had sprung up everywhere. Combined with ad campaigns from companies like Gillette, it became the fashion to be clean shaven. Between 1920 and 1960, beards were definitely unfashionable. That taboo has eased somewhat since the 60s, but it is still far more common for men to shave than not. And as you can see, it is strictly a fashion statement, and largely the result of advertising by companies like Schick, Norelco and Gillette.
Or, to put it another way, No one makes any money if you have a beard...
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Peace,
Many ethnic groups have male populations that cannot grow facial hair. How would the Sunna of growing a beard be applied to them?
Salam Brother,
There is no compulsion in the religion.God will only question if you have option and still you don't do it.
Wasala,
A.Albruni -
Salaam all,
If ever in a discussion with a Traditional Muslim, to gauge the mindset, ask them this
On the one hand, it is "Sunnah" or recommended for Muslim men to grow a beard, yet on the other hand, cleanliness is very important for a Muslim... tell me, what will result in less dirt/grime/germs/dust having a beard or not having a beard?
(Now, it is obvious to any man that not having a beard will mean less dirt/dust/grime/germs on one's face/skin, yet apparently this is best practice and contradicts the cleanliness issue. Furthermore, there is a contradiction in which armpit/pubic hair is meant to be cut short, yet not facial hair)
If the poser of the question does not have a shaved head, then he or she is revealing more about himself/herself than the person answering the question. The frame of mind of a self contradicting person.
Hussein
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As-salaam Alikum brothers and sisters,
There is no compulsion in the religion.God will only question if you have option and still you don't do it.
Sure there?s an option?
http//www.amazon.com/Gag-Works-FAKE-BEARD-MOUSTACHE/dp/B0006GJZRM
http//ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41Z5DHFDZDL.AA280.jpg
Price $3.99
Availability In Stock. Ships from and sold by Fun Antics. ;D
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As-salaam Alikum brothers and sisters,
Sure there?s an option?
http//www.amazon.com/Gag-Works-FAKE-BEARD-MOUSTACHE/dp/B0006GJZRM
http//ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41Z5DHFDZDL.AA280.jpg
Price $3.99
Availability In Stock. Ships from and sold by Fun Antics. ;D
Instant Muslim, just add water. )