BIG BIG BIG BIG SINFUL ACT!
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But what if homosexual starts from the mind, and not genetic? Often things are what they are because it serve a purpose for the self, or society at large.. culture, friends, and the media often play a role on how we perceive things and how we feel about things...
If i'm in Ammar's shoes, i would think of possible reasons that might caused a liking/admiration/*ehem at same sex, and i try not to quickly conclude it's because i'm gay...
put "it's because i'm gay" at a side first, and try see from other perspectives, then tackle it from those presumed reasons...
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Peace Johnny
I'm not sure of surgical stablization or changing that which God has made perfect. You are male or female in this world if that is what you are born as. My experience with homosexuals is that they can be extremely aggressive in their approach, but then again I note that there are many heterosexual men who are aggressive in their approach to females. Personally, I think homosexuality helps to stablilize an overabundance of humans, just as wars do, plagues, disease, et cetera. These people can adopt the children who have no home and parents. I do not think that the quran endorses homosexuality and even though kaiwai has the story of lut partially right he is ignorant of the whole which is why he does not see what it is saying.
Joe
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Peace,
I never had a boner because of a guy, but I've certainly been aroused, if I may say so, when spotting a well built man. Yet, I have never doubted that I'm purely heterosexual. You see, there can be a number of reasons why I could be attracted to a male, and there need not necessarily be a sexual cause. My best bet would be my own lack of wellbuiltness. Truth be told I'm a skinny fellow. I don't think there is a muscle anywhere in this carcass of mine. And so, as any true ectomorph, a six pack is the wettest dream I have. Is it any wonder then, that I stare a bit longer than I really need to when I see a guy with packs? It's not like I get to see a fine piece of muscle everyday... Just because I might get thrilled over my friend's new Ferrari, doesn't mean I'm thinking of humping it...
People shouldn't jump to a gay conclusion each and every time there seems to be a slight justification for it...
Nadeem
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Peace all,
As i said we need rigorous scientific testing in order to discover once and for all whether male hs activity causes any sort of harm to other individuals or not. One possible hypothesis ive speculated is male hs activity causing selective pressure of certain genetic traits in the sperm and the high possibility of one of the two male hs artners becomig straight again. Then the defective genes would be passed on and since most men would be shy in informing the female partner tht they were ever gay, unknowingly do so. This is the only real danger i can think off and it would make bisexuals(men) incredibly more dangerous than male hs, if true. All that needs to be done now is test this hypothesis and we need to start ASAP. Maybe bro Andya Primanda can be of help. Should the results come out -ve, meaning no apparent dangers, it would drastically weaken the position of the Quran and would lead to a paradoxical state in my brain as i might have mentioned earlier since ive made so many connections with reality stemming from the Quran whose immediate abandoning would seem almost ENTIRELY ABSURD AND IRRATIONAL by my neural network. GOD Bless! -
Peace Johnny
I'm not sure of surgical stablization or changing that which God has made perfect. You are male or female in this world if that is what you are born as. My experience with homosexuals is that they can be extremely aggressive in their approach, but then again I note that there are many heterosexual men who are aggressive in their approach to females. Personally, I think homosexuality helps to stablilize an overabundance of humans, just as wars do, plagues, disease, et cetera. These people can adopt the children who have no home and parents. I do not think that the quran endorses homosexuality and even though kaiwai has the story of lut partially right he is ignorant of the whole which is why he does not see what it is saying.
Joe
I'm not saying that the Quran is promoting the idea of "we need more poofters! yo who are straight woe is your pain and misery with children in abundance and headaches abound! come to the bent path of poofterness!"
What I am saying is that the Quran is silent on the matter, when you look at all the evidence. What people then do is if they hate gays they then read the texts and use reference points (with a grey area) and use that as justification - specifically those who want/demand/require progeny because they're a patriarchal society.
As for whether it does any harm; like anything, it depends on how you do it. If you are in a committed relationship/ you're not promiscuous/you use protection, then it is safe as heterosexual sex. The problem is that those who hate gays try to use peoples person choices as equalling homosexuality. There are promiscuous homosexuals just like there are promiscuous heterosexuals; it isn't a black and white picture some try to make out.
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But what if homosexual starts from the mind, and not genetic? Often things are what they are because it serve a purpose for the self, or society at large.. culture, friends, and the media often play a role on how we perceive things and how we feel about things...
If i'm in Ammar's shoes, i would think of possible reasons that might caused a liking/admiration/*ehem at same sex, and i try not to quickly conclude it's because i'm gay...
put "it's because i'm gay" at a side first, and try see from other perspectives, then tackle it from those presumed reasons...
It depends. I know in my case I've never once need attracted to females, I can't view females in a sexual way like heterosexual males can. A straight male might see an attractive female, but for me, its just another person - there is no lust/desire/attraction or any sort of sexual arousal going on. You could line up 100 of the most attractive females in the world, all of them naked dancing in a provocative way and my only reaction will be the equivalent of looking at a lamppost.
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If you want to be gay Ammarb, be gay; but if you wish to be straight, be straight. Just dont try to keep one side hidden from others, thats what really hurts a person. I would suggest, if you enjoyed it and yet still want to date women, go bisexual.
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Peace,
Homosexuality (both male and female) is condemned in the Quran
"And those women who commit lewdness, you shall bring four witnesses over them from amongst you; if they bear witness, then you shall restrict them in the homes until death terminates their lives, or God makes for them a way out. And the two men who commit it from amongst you, then you shall punish them. If they repent and amend, then leave them alone. God is Redeemer, Merciful." (415-16)
In all cases, even if a person is unable to change his/her feelings, the person is responsible to control himself/herself from moving the issue beyond the thought/feeling stage.
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Peace to all,
Thanks for stating that Layth, I was getting a little worried I was on the wrong forum, I personally think homosexuality is wrong but I wont take actions to prevent it if they keep it to themselves and in private. Lets not free our minds too much people,,,,,
Kurt
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Peace,
Homosexuality (both male and female) is condemned in the Quran
"And those women who commit lewdness, you shall bring four witnesses over them from amongst you; if they bear witness, then you shall restrict them in the homes until death terminates their lives, or God makes for them a way out. And the two men who commit it from amongst you, then you shall punish them. If they repent and amend, then leave them alone. God is Redeemer, Merciful." (415-16)
In all cases, even if a person is unable to change his/her feelings, the person is responsible to control himself/herself from moving the issue beyond the thought/feeling stage.
http//dictionary.reference.com/browse/lewdness
No where on this page is he word lewd described as homosexauality, just lust in general. Unless there is some mistranslation in that verse, (which I dont think there is, I've seen it posted multiple times the exact same way) then it isnt describing homosexuality.
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http//dictionary.reference.com/browse/lewdness
No where on this page is he word lewd described as homosexuality, just lust in general. Unless there is some mistranslation in that verse, (which I don't think there is, I've seen it posted multiple times the exact same way) then it isnt describing homosexuality.
Thank you, I was just going to post that.
I find it interesting that those here who call themselves 'free and independent thinkers' are condemning homosexuality, not based on fact or reason but simply prejudice linked with the 'eww yuck' childish attitude.
None of you have explain WHY it is bad. You point out to thingst that talk about being promiscuous, you talk about versus that refer to straight men using homosexuals for sexual release, but not a single verse relating to homosexuality.
What it tells me is that these people have the attitude that they think homosexuality is a concious choice made by the individual - that is what they're implicitly saying.
May I suggest that those who have a problem with homosexuality to get a life. Until you've been in my shoes, you know jack sh*t about the situation I am in.
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Peace,
Regarding the verse
"And those women who commit lewdness, you shall bring four witnesses over them from amongst you; if they bear witness, then you shall restrict them in the homes until death terminates their lives, or God makes for them a way out. And the two men who commit it from amongst you, then you shall punish them. If they repent and amend, then leave them alone. God is Redeemer, Merciful." (415-16)
Why does it not say "and those men and women who commit lewdness" (ie heterosexuals)?
Why does it say "and those women who commit lewdness" "and the two men who commit lewdness"
This to me emphasizes that the verse is about homosexual acts...
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Peace
It is wrong because God says it is wrong in the quran, which some of us here believe in. Just as fornication is wrong, just as adultery is wrong, just as marrying moms and sisters is wrong. Note that the verse says the two men or women who commit lewdness together. You can stay with your situation but just note that as far as I'm concerned it is clearly a forbidden thing. There used to be another vehement homosexual on these boards a few years ago, perhaps you should read his posts, I believe they are here unless they were lost in some of the crashes.
Joe
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Peace,
Regarding the verse
"And those women who commit lewdness, you shall bring four witnesses over them from amongst you; if they bear witness, then you shall restrict them in the homes until death terminates their lives, or God makes for them a way out. And the two men who commit it from amongst you, then you shall punish them. If they repent and amend, then leave them alone. God is Redeemer, Merciful." (415-16)
Why does it not say "and those men and women who commit lewdness" (ie heterosexuals)?
Why does it say "and those women who commit lewdness" "and the two men who commit lewdness"
This to me emphasizes that the verse is about homosexual acts...
Ok, here it is
And as for those of your women who become guilty of immoral conduct, call upon four from among you who have witnessed their guilt and bear witness thereto, confine the guilty women to their houses until death takes them away or God opens for them a way . And punish both of the guilty parties; but f they both repent and mend their ways, leave them alone; for behold, God is an acceptor of repentance, a dispencer of grace Surah 415-16 Muhammad Asad - The message of the Quran.
May I suggest you read the following text
Progressive Muslims, Chapter 8, Sexuality, Diversity, and ethics in the agenda of progressive Muslims, Scott Siraj al-Haqq Kugle (ISBN 1-85168-316-X) which addresses this issue.
The above quotation you provided has nothing to do with homosexuality, but promiscuity, be it between a man and a women, two women or two men.
I know you hate gays, so why not just come out with it rather than resorting to hiding behind scripture.
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Peace to all,
kaiwai, who said we hated you or other gays, hate the sin but love the sinner, I believe it is a sin but its not for me to condemn you or punish you, only God can do that, I do want you to keep it private though, and when I here people say stuff like dont impose your morality on me I answer, dont impose your immorality on me and my family.
Kurt
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Peace to all,
kaiwai, who said we hated you or other gays, hate the sin but love the sinner, I believe it is a sin but its not for me to condemn you or punish you, only God can do that, I do want you to keep it private though, and when I here people say stuff like dont impose your morality on me I answer, dont impose your immorality on me and my family.
Kurt
How am I imposing my immortality on you? don't make such erroneous statements. If you don't like homosexuals, then just jolly well come out with it - stop tip-toeing around the issue finding scriptures which you've interpreted in such a way to back up what you want it to say.
If you're going to take the above approach, you might as well move to Saudi Arabia and embrace Wahhabism wholesale - if you're going to complete divorce yourself from any possible reason when it comes to this topic. When you go around believing that homosexuality is a choice, and we're (all homosexuals) deviant as*holes who should die a horrible death in hell, I truly question whether or not you could be classed as a 'progressive Muslim'.
