Verse About Hitting Women
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The challenge to bring something better or like the Qur'an is totally subjective.
Personally I find Plato's Republic (amongst many others) better than the Qur'an.
I see nothing special about the Qur'an.
Some bits are beautiful - other bits dull - and still other bits make me cringe.
Oh right, because plato's republic isn't sexist, militaristic, xenophobic, sexually perverted, advocating eugenics and the ruthless destruction of family life. Wait a minute, yes it is. Not that I didn't enjoy reading it, but that was partly out of morbid fascination.
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Peace
It's not about bringing something better, because it is simply talking about bringing forth the truth. You cannot bring a truth and challenge the quran because according to it it is a redaction of the truth. Thus if anything, the fools who accept this challenge can only bring forth a falsehood. In other words one will simply be bringing the same truth if anything and rhetoric. So if you ARE truthful you can bring NO antithesis to the quran's doctrines.
Joe
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Not sure that works, Joe, surely the relative truth of the Quran is judged by readers empirically, it isn't the case that everything in it is ontologically certain merely by virtue of being written there.
Thus the verse
2849 Say "Then bring forth a scripture from God that is better in guidance so I may follow it, if you are truthful."
is not automatically rejecting anything different. It isn't saying "You're stupid and wrong for believing anything different". It is saying "If you've got something better, let's see it!" It's trying to encourage a genuine quest for the truth. It is the statement of a true seeker of wisdom, not someone who is closed minded, not someone who believes only he is right and everyone else is wrong.
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Peace
It's not about bringing something better, because it is simply talking about bringing forth the truth. You cannot bring a truth and challenge the quran because according to it it is a redaction of the truth. Thus if anything, the fools who accept this challenge can only bring forth a falsehood. In other words one will simply be bringing the same truth if anything and rhetoric. So if you ARE truthful you can bring NO antithesis to the quran's doctrines.Joe
make sense... yes
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make sense... yes
Salaam
I just can't understand why the discussion seems to divert to other issues brickwall when the problem of domestic violence is the topic ie the subject of ridicule here.
I would invite all to pay attention to the importance of restraint in addressed in verse 34 of Suratun-Nisa,; it has been included in the Qur?an in order to divert a man from abusing his physical strength in favour of using his power of restraint.
Think which is easier; excercising anger which is commonly done by men who hit their wives OR curbing it, which in turn will never result in hitting a woman but could be used by the victim to ask the court to punish the abuser. hmmpeace
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Salaam
I just can't understand why the discussion seems to divert to other issues brickwall when the problem of domestic violence is the topic ie the subject of ridicule here.
I would invite all to pay attention to the importance of restraint in addressed in verse 34 of Suratun-Nisa,; it has been included in the Qur?an in order to divert a man from abusing his physical strength in favour of using his power of restraint.
Think which is easier; excercising anger which is commonly done by men who hit their wives OR curbing it, which in turn will never result in hitting a woman but could be used by the victim to ask the court to punish the abuser. hmm
peaceYou yourself are exercising anger by using this ------> ( brickwall ) Aren't you?
Also its common among those men/women who have some sort of mental weaknesses and they really need to see a psychiatrists at least once every month.
434 says "beat them" which is inhuman of course.
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You yourself are exercising anger by using this ------> ( brickwall ) Aren't you?
Also its common among those men/women who have some sort of mental weaknesses and they really need to see a psychiatrists at least once every month.
434 says "beat them" which is inhuman of course.
Salaam
I would rather brickwall than to hit anyone this is not excersing anger but drawing attention to much misunderstood subject.Ofcorse it is humanly impossible that a man would still maintain his rage and beat his wife despite giving her warning and time to seperate bed such a cooling period will calm down anyone who is angry unless he is inhumane.
However I would rather ask you to think why, according to Quranic instructions, when a man wants to divorce his wife he is supposed to stay close to her until finalising the divorce, but when he fears rebellion from her he is instead asked to separate beds?
peace -
Any idea? According to quran what is rebellion? Does quran say anything about that or it is left on husband to decide that such and such kind of behaviour would be considered as rebellion. You seem very knowledgeable sister, looking forward to learn. hail
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Any idea? According to quran what is rebellion? Does quran say anything about that or it is left on husband to decide that such and such kind of behaviour would be considered as rebellion. You seem very knowledgeable sister, looking forward to learn. hail
Rebellion as I understand is going against ones expectation. I hope now you can respond to my question above.
hmm Domestic violence happens because one party does something against the wishes of another provoking anger on part of the one who expected compliance.
peace
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Rebellion as I understand is going against ones expectation. I hope now you can respond to my question above.
hmm Domestic violence happens because one party does something against the wishes of another provoking anger on part of the one who expected compliance.
peace
My sis, is it what your common sense says or is that what quran says? hail
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Please use your common sense, things will become clear and than try and reply to my question.
;D
It seems you don't want to share your knowledge with us, ah.. ok... no worries, I ask my other brothers and sisters to share if they know according to quran what is rebellion? Does quran say anything about that or it is left on each individual to decide that such and such kind of behaviour would be considered as rebellion. As my sister farida thinks rebellion is going against ones expectations, so can every individual using one's own common sense decide like that and act?
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;D
It seems you don't want to share your knowledge with us, ah.. ok... no worries, I ask my other brothers and sisters to share if they know according to quran what is rebellion? Does quran say anything about that or it is left on each individual to decide that such and such kind of behaviour would be considered as rebellion. As my sister farida thinks rebellion is going against ones expectations, so can every individual using one's own common sense decide like that and act?
Haven?t you heard about case of such husband who beats his wife simply because she did not put salt to his expectation in the food she cooked? )
I would ask again to think why, according to Quranic instructions, when a man wants to divorce his wife he is supposed to stay close to her until finalising the divorce, but when he fears rebellion from her he is instead instructed to separate beds?
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Haven?t you heard about case of such husband who beats his wife simply because she did not put salt to his expectation in the food she cooked?
I would ask again to think why, according to Quranic instructions, when a man wants to divorce his wife he is supposed to stay close to her until finalising the divorce, but when he fears rebellion from her he is instead asked to separate beds?
By not replying ur question am I going against ur expectations? soon you'll get angry and will show ur anger by this ------> ( brickwall) caution hitting ur ownself is as bad as hitting others.
As for your "havn't u heard" part, I have also heard that Prophet Mohammad said if a wife refuses the husband angels curse her whole night!
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By not replying ur question am I going against ur expectations? soon you'll get angry and will show ur anger by this ------> ( brickwall caution hitting ur ownself is as bad as hitting others.
As for your "havn't u heard" part, I have also heard that Prophet Mohammad said if a wife refuses the husband angels curse her whole night!
I have knowledge about such men who hit their wives for not putting enogh salt in their food.(the current case studies with evidence)
However when did you hear this "I have also heard that Prophet Mohammad said if a wife refuses the husband angels curse her whole nightthat"
And what proof do you have the Prophet Mohammad said any such thing? brickwall
peace -
I have knowledge about such men who hit their wives for not putting enogh salt in their food.(the current case studies with evidence)
peaceyou are kidding aren't you? where are you from?
However when did you hear this "I have also heard that Prophet Mohammad said if a wife refuses the husband angels curse her whole nightthat"
And what proof do you have the Prophet Mohammad said any such thing? brickwalllong story, but do you want the link of that amazing hadith? and please dont use that anger showing smiley rather use this -----> ;D its better trust me!
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o you are kidding aren't you? where are you from?
I am not kidding I work with the victim of domestic violence in UK
Domestic violence happens in every class tribe and causes of domestic violence are still being researched civilised countries are now taking notice of such abuse. However a Muslim woman always had the opportunity to challenge her husband?s loss of self control where he did not allow a cooling off period which not only gives women time to protect herself from violence and where such period is not allowed she should ask for punishment for the man who ignored it.
I have cited a current case in reply 15 of this thread wher the wife could have asked for punishment for her husband who hits her regularly.long story, but do you want the link of that amazing hadith? and please dont use that anger showing smiley rather use this -----> ;D its better trust me!
I only follow Quran and do not believe in what was said for the convenience of men by some men.
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Now you have studied the quran extensively IN ITS LANGUAGE to come to your conclusions, no?
Yes
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Yes
Salaam
Studying the language of the Qur?an is one thing, but comprehending the depth and reasons behind its commandments is another. I would suggest that you Google ?Domestic violence?; it?s within your reach and you would find lots of studies. Do a bit of reading on the causes of the cycle of violence which seems to go on and on where, somehow both man and woman get trapped in violent relationships, often connected with an urge to control. This awful and deep-rooted problem of violence against woman is rampant among all classes and all sections of society.
Then apply Al- Nisah 34 to this issue; remember, Alcohol is not labelled as haram in the HQ we are only advised to shun it and it is considered haram by most because we are aware of its evil effect. Similarly one ayah may appear to allow the man to control a rebellious woman by force but, in fact it is, quite to the contrary, asking the man to control his temper.
The problem rests with Muslim women who never understood the protection given to them or how they can challenge a violent man who have not allowed himself a cooling off period. This is beneficial for the man too, offering him a chance to curb his anger, thus saving him from falling into a vicious cycle of violence.
peace