Tears have come to my eyes
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My goodness, thanks to God that there are similar peoples. I grew up in a non-that-much-practicing muslim family and embraced Islam fully at the beginning of last year; first I read Karen Armstrong's biography of the prophet and then the Quran; it touched me so much I embraced Islam completely. As soon as I began to become involved with the mosques crazy things started happening people were bustling to get to the front because "there is more reward" and people were growing beards because "there is more reward" I read and read the Quran again and again and I could find nothing in there then the word "hadith" came into my life - and it felt like superstition put this foot here, put that hand there, say this and that three times and four times - what?! The love and light that had filled my heart was fast becoming darkness, and I felt a great weight come over me, and a great sadness - my prayers were not being accepted by my Lord? Really? I fell to groups to find like minded people - and everyone had what can only be described as superstitions a lot of rituals and all justified by hadith - people know their hadith better than they knew their Quran. When I asked about the origins of the hadith no one really knew After reading Quran many times over; I felt a strong desire to reject hadith. I prayed and prayed and prayed, and today I found this site. Thank God. And thank you - I feel sane again. If anyone is in the London area - please get in touch.
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Shalom sister ,
welcome to the best way , I hope you'll have more information with your brothers and sisters on this forum , but I advice you for to consult trhe web site www.submission.org , for the hadith is fabricated by devil ( satan) for to deserted the Quran ( the God's word) the hadiths is coming 250 years after the Muhammad's dead ,yes you need to study and study the God's word , then why we reciting everyday the Quran without to hate it . and why God protect his book ?
Shalom -
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In the name of God, most merciful, most compassionate.
Peace be with you, Sister Leyla.I am also new on the free-minds forum. I am not a submitter or nineteener, but if you read my posts you will get an idea of my own faith.
Peace be with you.
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My goodness, thanks to God that there are similar peoples. I grew up in a non-that-much-practicing muslim family and embraced Islam fully at the beginning of last year; first I read Karen Armstrong's biography of the prophet and then the Quran; it touched me so much I embraced Islam completely. As soon as I began to become involved with the mosques crazy things started happening people were bustling to get to the front because "there is more reward" and people were growing beards because "there is more reward" I read and read the Quran again and again and I could find nothing in there then the word "hadith" came into my life - and it felt like superstition put this foot here, put that hand there, say this and that three times and four times - what?! The love and light that had filled my heart was fast becoming darkness, and I felt a great weight come over me, and a great sadness - my prayers were not being accepted by my Lord? Really? I fell to groups to find like minded people - and everyone had what can only be described as superstitions a lot of rituals and all justified by hadith - people know their hadith better than they knew their Quran. When I asked about the origins of the hadith no one really knew After reading Quran many times over; I felt a strong desire to reject hadith. I prayed and prayed and prayed, and today I found this site. Thank God. And thank you - I feel sane again. If anyone is in the London area - please get in touch.
Peace,
Respectfully.welcome to the forum, dear sister and may God The Most Merciful guide you on the Right Path and reward you with Paradise. There is a huge path behind you and even bigger infront of you as you will encounter many enemies, God forbid, but that's life. Most people are ignorat of the True Islam and following Kur'an, most people want to follow they own desires.
I was born Muslim but sunni, thank God AllMighty i got out of that crazy circle. Today, i am a Real Muslim, True Believer, I follow Qur'an and not man-made books written 100s of years ago. Islam is older then the Qur'an, sister, tell them that when they ask you where are the prayers in The Quran.
The first thing that the sunnis will ask you is how do you pray, if you don't follow sunna and hadith? How do i know this? I have been asked the same questions and everyone i know. This is a common thing.
May God AllPowerful help you and give you the best health and more strength.
Pray, read Quran, trust God, He knows what's the best for you.
Rely on God, He will help you, if you ask Him alone.I asked for many things and even for a wife, my prayers got answered very, very, very, very, quickley. Why? Because prayers were sincere and honest.
We are all here to support you, sister.
sun sunPeace.
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Salam Sisterleyla
Welcome to Islam based on God alone/monotheism. I'll hope you'll enjoy being here, and share your thoughts with us in the forum.
Yes, Hadiths are not a part of islam. I want to give you some information about the history of hadith.
Did you know that all the Hadith-collecters were Persian, and that zoroastrianism was irans biggest religion at the time when Islam came to iran? Here is some information about the Hadith-Colllectors and the history of hadiths.
As you know, shia and sunni Imams/sheykhs claim that hadith should be accepted as divine and set laws for us, and that Hadith is announcedas a undivideable part of islam. 6 different versions of Hadith collections are considered to be the most authentic versions by the sunni muslims, and is called "Sahaa Sitaa". Shia muslims have their own collections and they are all different from the hadiths of sunni's.
A little about the history of hadith
First i want to talk about our Prophet, Prophet Muhammed
The history tells us that Prophet Muhammed was born year 570, and died 8.june year 632 in medina. He died 10 years after Hijrah.
I want to mention what Hijra is
Hijra is an arabic term for the Prophets emigration from Mecca to Medina in year 622, which establish the starting point of the Islamic time. With other words, the islamic time started year 622.
Lets start with some important facts
These 6 Hadith-Versions/collections came with the following titles
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Sahih Bukhari
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Sahih Muslim
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Tirmidhi
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Abu Dawud
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Ibne Maja
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Nisaayee
Introductions to the authours above
Imam Bukhari
He was born year 256 in Hijra, and some people say he was born year 260 (Hijra is the islamic calender as mentioned earlier). We know that Bukhari died in Khartank. It was said that after wandering through different towns and villages, he collected as much as 600 000. and after having grading them, he found 7300 ahadiths that he assumed was authentic. These are repeated in various chapters. If we don't take the repetions, the total number is 2630 or 2762.He is mostly known as Bukhari, Al-Bukhari or Imam bukhari, and he is know to be a Sunni Islamic scholar of persian roots. With other words, bukhari was originally Iranian/Persian.
Imam Muslim
Muslim bin Hajaj came from a city in iran, called Nishapoor. He was born in year 204 in hijra and died 261.Tirmidi
Imam abu isa Muhammed Tirmidhi was from a city by the name Trimz in Iran. He was born in the year 209 in hijra. amd died year 279 hijrah.Abu Dawud
Imam abu dawud, came from Seestan in iran. He was born in year 202 hijra, and died year 275 hijra.Ibne Maja
Abu Abdullah Muhammed bin zai, ibne Maja comes from a city iran by the name Kazdin. He was born hijra 209, and died year 273 in hijra.Imam nisaayee
Imam ABdur Rahma Nisaayee comes from a city in iran Nisa in the eastern province of Khorasan. He died year 303 in Hijra.Some Opinions
After a good introduction to these religious scholars/academicians, we can see that all of them wee iranians. None of these Scholars were of arabic origin. We must also note thaarabs don't have prepared themselves of what these scholars had done. And that is because all of these academicians/scholars were born 200-300 year after prophet Muhammeds died.
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Another question that comes to mind is; all the ahadiths are only heard, they are not written down in an earlier archive until the collections of the Imams came.
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From these thousands of hadiths that are collected, only a few thousand of them are seen as authentic, while most of them are discarded. The criteria for the Hadith-collectors was their own personal Judgments.
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None of these Authours were being inspired by God when it comes to which ahadith that should be discarded, and which of them that should come in "the golden collection". Neither Prophet Muhammed was there to approve the hadiths of the muslims, since hadith was collected 200-400 years after Muhammeds death. With other words, there are no proofs that showes us that Prophet Muhammed has approved the Hadiths to be authentic.
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Again, there was no earlier record/archive where the material could have been "loaned" from an archive and worked with. All the ahadiths, went from mouth to mouth, from city to city, village to village.
Important things
- After personal judgment we can see that some ahadiths were wrote down, and other were thrown away/discared.
-How can someone based on ahadith which are stories told from mouth to mouth and from ear to ear collection, gove proofs that these are Prophet Muhammeds exact words?
- Not the fact that these words are not give from a father to a son, or a teacher to a student, as memories
It would be stupid to not show people what the number of collected and discarded hadiths.
Ahadith authors founded ahadith collected in their Hadith-collections
Imam bukhari, Found 600 000, Discarded 2,762
imam muslim, Found 300 000 Discarded 4348
imam trimzi, Found 300 000 Discarded 3115
imam abu daw, Found 500 000 Discarded 4800
imam abu Maja Found 400 000 Discarded 4000
imam nisai, Found 200 000 Discarded 4321
Mathematical calculations of collected and Discarded hadiths
Imam Bukhari Collected less than 0,5 % that was authentic,og discarded over 99,5%
Imam Muslim Collected less than 1,5 % authentic, and discarded over 98,5 %
Imam Tirmidhi Collected a lil bit over 1 % that was authentic, and discarded 99%
Imam Dawud Collected under 1 % that was authentic, and discarded over 99%
Imam abu Maja Collected exactly 1% authentic hadiths, discarded exactly 99%
Imam Nisai Collected a collected over 2% authentic hadiths, discarded over 97%
Conclusion
As we can see above, the Imams discarded over 98-99% of all the hadiths they collected. They claimed that all these were not authentic, and were false. Totally they colleced only 1-2 % of the hadiths, and claimed this was authentic. That means that only 1-2 % of the hadiths that were found was collected into the HADITH-COLLECTIONS.The first thing that comes to our mind is; how can we be sure that all these authors did not throw away/discard the
right ones, because the majorit of hadiths that actually are written down as authentic, contradicts/violates Gods word in the Quran. And what about all the hadiths that contradicts other hadiths, contradicts reason, contradicts science, history and many other things.From the results of the research above, we can easily see that the collection and teachings of Prophet muhammed, was nothing but an individual struggle without any garantee from God or approval of muhammed.
It has been discussed that we are lucky that we had people like Bukhari to make a collection like this. Some Scholars even go further and claim that 1/10 of the knowledge is in Quran, while the rest 9/10 is in the Hadith-collections. Its is not hard 2 understand why the 9/10 of the muslim people constantly are in war wich each other in the middle east.
When God tells us in the Quran that the system of deen is complete, and after this, can we even a moment, just a moment imagine that Prophet Muhammed would leave a so important part of his knowledge to the mercy of destiny?
If you want to know more about the history of Hadiths and to see 100's of the false hadiths, visit this link
http//www.submission.org/had-corruption.html
Sisterleyla, you can also read the whole history of hadiths and islam in this great summary written by Wakas
http//www.free-minds.org/articles/hadith/rethink.htm
Peace,
David -
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peace Leyla,
Welcome to the forum.
As far as I'm aware, there are a few people in London. Using the search on www.quranconnection.com I found 4.
To help in your studies, you might find this site useful www.studyquran.org
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Welcome Sister,
May God bless you and keep you on the straight path.
I really like the point that is made in the Nov. 2005 edition of Submitters Perspective. It is mathematically impossible for Bukhari to have collected 600,000 hadiths. Below is an excerpt from the article.
"How reliable was Bukhari? How did he manage to pick the ?genuine? hadiths from his collection of over 600,000 hadiths? Is it possible to achieve this overwhelming task physically in one?s lifetime? It is reported that Bukhari lived 62 years. Had he spent a mere hour per hadith for compilation, checking the authenticity, and for recording it, he would require 600,000 hours total. This translates into more than 68 years! Assuming that he started collecting hadith at birth; if he did not sleep, did not eat, did not do anything else but work, he still would not manage to complete his work before he died. Therefore it certainly defies logic, especially considering the reported instances where he supposedly traveled to places that sometimes took days, or weeks to check the authenticity of a given hadith."
Just the mathematics alone proves that the ridiculousness of the claim and exposes hadith as....well.....BS.
May God Bless All the Believers.
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My goodness, thanks to God that there are similar peoples. I grew up in a non-that-much-practicing muslim family and embraced Islam fully at the beginning of last year; first I read Karen Armstrong's biography of the prophet and then the Quran; it touched me so much I embraced Islam completely. As soon as I began to become involved with the mosques crazy things started happening people were bustling to get to the front because "there is more reward" and people were growing beards because "there is more reward" I read and read the Quran again and again and I could find nothing in there then the word "hadith" came into my life - and it felt like superstition put this foot here, put that hand there, say this and that three times and four times - what?! The love and light that had filled my heart was fast becoming darkness, and I felt a great weight come over me, and a great sadness - my prayers were not being accepted by my Lord? Really? I fell to groups to find like minded people - and everyone had what can only be described as superstitions a lot of rituals and all justified by hadith - people know their hadith better than they knew their Quran. When I asked about the origins of the hadith no one really knew After reading Quran many times over; I felt a strong desire to reject hadith. I prayed and prayed and prayed, and today I found this site. Thank God. And thank you - I feel sane again. If anyone is in the London area - please get in touch.
aaah, one more kaafir......"congratulations"...... estaghfirullah!
welcome
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aaah, one more kaafir......"congratulations"...... estaghfirullah!
welcome
Yeah, thats something u must get used to leyla P Because according to many sunnies and shia muslims those who don't follow hadiths are kafirs. This is what the quran says about those who mock others for their belief
Quran 2212
This worldly life has been made pleasing to the disbelievers, and they mock those who believe. And those who are righteous will be above them on the Day of Resurrection; God provides for whoever He wishes without a price.Below is some interesting verses to reflect upon
Followers of hadith following every old tradition
Quran 543 And they disbelieved, and followed their desires, and every old tradition.
Sunni and shia muslims should come to read the Quran, come to what God has sent down
5104 And if they are told "Come to what God has sent down, and to the messenger;" they say "We are content with what we found our fathers doing." What if their fathers did not know anything nor were guided?
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dear sis leyla.. salam
welcome.. i loved ur post, i could relate to it so much. Im in Manchester . My email address is [email protected]. plz feel free to email i'd love to hear from you.. luv n peace
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alhamdulillah, sister! welcome! peace
i am very glad that you feel again the light and peace of Islam. you are right, so much of hadith does feel like dark superstition, and it makes me sad, too. especially to see it taught rigidly to children.
welcome to free-minds, and may God bless you and keep you well, and in good iman.
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peace Sister Leyla
Thank you for the intorduction and welcome welcome to the forum.
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Shalom handshake sister Leyla I have a question
do you believe that Rashad was a messenger ?
take care
Shalom -
As'Salam Alaykum, Sis... I am not from the London area, but I cerainly can identify with your feelings. I am also new to Islam, although I now realize that I have ALWAYS been a Muslim... only misled by men (ie. family, friends, community, etc.)
I lived as a Christian for several years... feeling quite out of place there too! I could never find it within myself to associate anyone or anything on the same level as God! I could never accept anyone's ideas or explanations on pairing anyone or anything with, along side, along with... even in the same sentence as GOD! Now I fully understand why! Allahu Akbar!!!!
Once I did find myself digging deeper into Islam and the Qur'an... I found myself again asking questions about why NOW do I find the Muslims paying special attention to Mohammad (pbuh) as the Christians did Jesus (pbuh). I felt it was exactly the same act! And I could not for the life of me understand why it was so necessary to recite the Shahada to be considered a Muslim at all. Although, in my heart and mind... I felt that only God (ALLAH) could judge whether or not I was indeed a Muslim. I felt all I needed to do was what the Qur'an said that I must do... SUBMIT to ALLAH!
Now that I am coming along further in the Qur'an and understanding what I am reading (ALLAH has made it so clear!), I have no doubt that I am on the right Path... the Straight Path... and it is such a relief to know that there indeed are others out there like myself!
Allahu Akbar!!!!
Peace and blessings, Sis!
