Why do they want me to divorce my wife?
-
Salaams all.
Insha'Allah you are all in good health and increasing in knowledge and guidance day by day.
I have a problem, a story first to explain
My wife's family are hard core Barelwi Sunni muslims from Pakistan. Her brother is a member of the dawat-e-islami cult that has become very popular in the UK and in Pakistan.
My beliefs are not a secret. I don't preach to anyone, but if anyone asks me a question, I answer it from my knowledge of the Quran and the reality around me. My brother in law has told my wife (who shares their belief) that our marriage is void because she is married to someone who is not a muslim because I reject hadith as a source of law and guidance.
My wife has no problem with me, I let her practice her beliefs, and she lets me practice mine. I haven't tried to revert her as I believe example is best and she will if God wills learn the correct way. There is no compulsion.
Yet, I have a 'meeting' with my father and brother in law and my father, because they want my dad to persuade me to become a 'muslim' or rather a barelwi. I don't like the anger I am feeling, and to an extent writing this down here is allowing it to be an outlet. I know that I can present my case, but they will never believe. I have been challenged by my brother in law once before and he walked out because I used reason, logic and quranic evidence and he used a story about someone having a dream about the prophet who then converted to Islam because his cancer was miraculously healed. I challenged him to provide quranic evidence for his beliefs, because if he challenged me, I presented my case, he had to then present his case and accept criticism of HIS beliefs if he could that to me.
I am really peed off right now. My wife will do whatever her brother tells her. The barelwi force is strong with her brother.
If anyone can help in guiding me with the best way in dealing with this, please help. My meditation hasnt worked because I can't clear these negative emotions. Fear and anger lead to the dark side. I cannot and will not allow that to control me, yet I fear what I may say.
...
darcus -
peace darcus,
From what you have said, it seems it would be quite difficult to have a reasoned discussion with them and especially to a point where you would convince them otherwise, i.e. to change their view.
Thus, the best option may be to simply highlight solid Quranic principles, not in an attempt to change their opinion, and remain peaceful with them
E.g. freedom of religion/belief, do not insult one who offers you peace, to you your deen to me mine, address/invite people in the nicest manner etc. Sorry I dont have the specific ayatin/verses, I'm sure you could look them up.
One point I want to highlight with you is where they imply you are not a "Muslim". If we look at what The Quran says on this, it is an eye opener and serves to expose the arrogance of this position
O you who believe, let not a people ridicule other people, for they may be better than they. Nor shall any women ridicule other women, for they may be better than they. Nor shall you mock one another, or call each other names. Evil indeed is the reversion to wickedness after attaining faith. And anyone who does not repent, then these are the transgressors.
The above verse is addressed to believers, including the believers of the time. In a nutshell, it is saying do not speak ill of others as they may be better than you. Traditional Muslims regard the believers at the time of the prophet VERY highly but even they were told not to speak ill of others because those others might be better! This means that if Traditional Muslims today speak ill of others, say others are not "Muslim" etc then that directly implies that those Traditional Muslims of today think they know better than the believers of the time of the prophet!
Of course, they may not appreciate/understand this point.
-
Hi Darcus,
"who dares wins" i think this is the motto of the royal air force in the UK.
We aren't baggers but seek what is best - so if your wife thinks divorce is best, let her be the one to take the steps- its simple- if God is at all with her she wouldn't dare!
But as you're not married to your brother in law , let you're missus decide- a brother or a husband or both but gently.........gently though.
Just my two cents worth, but please just bin it if it seems far fetched.
God Bless.
-
peace all
jankren it wasnt a case of telling people. It becomes apparent in the way that I do things. I cannot do some of the stuff that they do, like visit the mosque to read naat and stuff and rejoice in them remembering the prophet at every corner, yet when God alone is mentioned, they recoil. Saying that we have no knowledge of that. Sometimes it is very difficult to sit back and take it because when you know it's wrong, its hard to keep quiet. I have been quiet at times when things around me have happened and I have felt worse about myself than anything. Plus, my wife was the first to really know the truth because we used to talk about it, all the time. What is truth, what I am doing, is this right, etc. No one in her family took much notice until her brother turned to this dawat-e-islami group and then he started 'converting' everyone, to wearing white salwar kameez, having a dark brown chadur and wearing a green turban (or imama sharif as he calls it). He grew huge beard and lovely long hair - like sheep so many others in the family turned to this. I know why they do it, because it gives them a sense of brotherhood. That sense of unity and belonging is what lured me into the Naqshbandi tariqa at an early age, with the grace of God Almighty I left that and moved onto something better.
Wakas Thank you for your words. I had planned on doing something along those lines as it seemed the best 'defence'. I know what needs to be done, its just all about remaining focussed on God, remembering Him and I will not falter. He will only do what is best for me.
Simple I've had quite a chat with my wife who doesnt want to leave me and said that she will not unless I do something bad. Which is fair. However, she wants me to explain to her family my beliefs so that they understand. I have told her that they may never understand as you cannot just shrug away 50 years of belief and being on the same path to even allow another idealogy into your life which is so radically different from their own.
Yosemite Funny you should say that - her brother is currently fighting with his own ex-wife to keep hold of his assets, of which most were put into his best friends name a year before declaring divorce! I'm not sure what happened in their case. Its like my father said, he is alone, so he wants me to feel the way he does. I dunno...
I am more focussed now, considerably calmer. Insha'Allah it will work out for the best.
Thank you all for your kind words. Lets see what happens in tomorrow's meeting...
d -
You are selling your relation very cheap, just for religious nonsense? Never try to teach religion, belittle others and try to prove that you are right and they are wrong.Try to understand human psychology on religious matters. Be nice to your wife and her family, never argue about religious nonsense, enjoy your life. At the moment just give them some time and then say sorry and bring your wife back. Think, religion kills relations. The only person you can change is you! Never ever be a fool by trying to change others!
-
Darcus,
Whatever you and your wife's beliefs it should be worked out between the both since it is a marriage we're talking about. What your father said however means that there is something that he understands about your brother in law, would it be too much to ask him to mediate on your behalf to leave your wife out of it as that is just not on? I mean tell him you are prepared to listen and think about things but not using your wife as a prize piece to haggle over (as in if you won't convert to what we think etc, we'll ruin your marriage)? I think your brother in law is too far gone seeing his troubles with his ex-wife to listen rationally at this time.
At this point it's not about discussing religion anymore, it's ego and other factors that have pretty much little to do with what they say it has to do with. If you don't accept what they say, you've already lost imo is what might be going on. You could ask your wife to come back and live with you as she's your wife after all and that you'll explain what you need to to the others in time. Are they keeping her by force? If she thinks it's null and void, so be it but if she doesn't and is being forced into staying away then you both need to decide what to do, maybe some distance between the families might serve? I mean keeping a marriage together when both want to stay together is reason enough, breaking it apart in such a manner is very serious. I can understand your anger, I can only advise you to be calm and collected and to try to get your wife back as the top priority and then use whatever tactics necessary to avoid this sort of thing from happening again.
I hope everything works out for the better. Salaam.
-
peace
RasulHamsa You misunderstand me. I am not a teacher. I do not know everything if anything at all. If I am questioned, should I just shut up, agree with what they say and become a hypocrite? I am not out to belittle others or to prove that I am right and they are wrong. They are forcibly attempting me to conform to their idea of religion. Should I not be prepared, or just go as a sheep to the slaughter of the self? I know I cannot change others. Only God can do that. I do not argue about religion - there is no-one to talk to around me about what I would term islam and what they would term islam. I also do not see why I should be apologetic about my beliefs - I understand what you term the 'psychology on religious matters'. It is in most cases an unmoveable mountain, a burden borne my some. I am not out to prove a point. Just to defend myself against a barrage. I learned earlier today that they think I may be possessed by a demon or some such. Can't wait for them to exorcise it. In the way these people know how - by beating the cr*p out of you.
-
peace
SavageCarrot thanks for the words. I have thought that there is always more to any situation than what meets the eye. My wife is with me. Her family are really taking the proverbial with this one. My father will be mediating the meeting later on today. He understands my beliefs and we have both agreed that we disagree. End of story.
My wife isnt being kept away by force, no-one can force her to do anything she doesnt want to do, strong willed women you see. Easily manipulated by her family though. We've been talking most of this evening and she stated that she didn't know if the marriage was void or not. It also seems like there are other people turning on the thumbscrews with my wife at the moment. Other members of her extended family. I just hope she sees what they are trying to do to us before it is too late. My son (he's only 2) is too young to get it, yet they dress him up in these green turbans and white clothes and make him repeat their naats. He doesn't know what he's saying, he's an innocent. yet they seem to use him and my wife as tools to get at me and my family for some reason.
I am quite focussed about what we intend to achieve. There's no point moving away because I would miss my family. They mean the world to me. Its not like I've been rude to my in-laws or done anything I should'nt have. If anything I've been the model son-in-law. It might be time to show them that my family cannot be pushed around. My brother-in-law has already tried to mess with my older brother, suffice to say we didn't hear or see my brother-in-law around these parts for 6 months. It angers me beyond belief - but I am control of that. That energy will be channeled to ensure this sort of thing doesnt happen again...
-
(١ (٢ (٣
By (the Token of) time (through the Ages), (1) Verily Man is in loss, (2) Except such as have Faith, and do righteous deeds, and (join together) in the mutual teaching of Truth, and of Patience and Constancy. (3)Any one who choose to teach and defend the truth?our God?s words, according to the last Sora (and many other verses) has to have patience. He has to understand that it is not an easy bath, but the reward is great. I have no doubt that God will complete his light, and I have no doubt that God will give victory to those who defend his book.
May God be with you. sun -
Salam darcus,
Thanks for clarifying. "not being pushed around" might be what's needed, I feel for your son though, not sure I could stand back and let them interfere with my kids if I was in your situation. You've been quite patient. I wish you and your family all the best ).
-
Peace darcus,
I read your original post and skimmed through the others. My first thought was what sc wrote... this is between you. your wife and your son. Just knowing where you (both) stand is not enough, IMHO. A line has to be drawn, where others cannot interfere, including religion. The decisions you come to should be between the two of you with your son in mind. But once you let others sway you, and further decide you fate, then I believe you will only end up in regret.
Ask the God for guidance and help, and do what you (both) know to be best for you.
I wish you all the best for you and your family.
peace
-
Peace
savage_carrot Its been the hardest thing in the world allowing my in laws to dress him up like them and the poor thing singing 'noor wala aya hai' with no mention of teaching him any of the Glorious Names of God. The problem I have is ensuring that my wife is not swayed by their beliefs. Which she is. She never used to pray 5 times a day and only recently she has started. Which is fine. It is difficult not to offend her family. I do not intend to offend, but it seems my very existence offends them. The meeting is later tonight. I just pray that I keep calm and they allow me to have my say. If they bring some twat in a beard who thinks I am possessed by a djinn and that it needs to be exorcised, I feel like I will have to resort to other means to shut them up.
Zenje I agree with you that the decisions we make should be between me, my wife and my son. However, life is never that simple is it. I have a large extended family who mean the world to me. She also has a large extended family who mean the world to her. It would be so good to just cut off contact with her family as then we could be happy. I will never blindly allow anyone to sway me, this is the thing that gets them, I always ask for evidence when they talk their nonsense and expect me to agree. I cannot agree to a fallacy. I cannot agree to the blatant shirk they commit daily. I am not pure myself, but at least I try to be aware of myself and try to reprogramme my behaviour so that it runs in line with that required in the Quran laws and common sense.
-
You have to keep in mind that they also feel religiously convicted to split you apart. I don't know how your marriage was conducted but in the traditional circles I know they appoint an arbiter/"wali" from each side to decide, just like the more traditional Sunni idealogy who has every right to split you apart should anything go wrong. I mean, there isn't any difference in their eyes between say, physical abuse or some other genuine form of abuse and a religious difference.
To be honest you should have been well aware of what would happen. Maybe a little al-taqiyya would go well, after all you're very much under duress. Good luck and god's blessings in whatever you do. Remember that time is not restricted in the least, maybe you should hold back for a while, put the proverbial cake in the refrigerator for later.
-
Peace
OPF I understand that they have this religious conviction to split us. Its a shame really. Its the life of my wife, son and I. Nobody else should factor into our decisions unless we request it.
The fabled meeting didnt take place. I got home from work early, my father was here, yet my father in law wasnt coming because his son was too busy 'working', and wanted him present. He even said that there was no point in talking because if my father accepted me for who I was then he wasnt going to say anything.
Every saturday I go and visit my in-laws with my wife as a family. I think I will have to raise my objections to them butting into my relationship with my wife. The line must be drawn somewhere. What I don't get is their real motivation. I understand what you said OPF, its just that they are the worst kind of people. My father even apologised to me saying that they shouldn't have got my wife from that family. At the end of the day, I have a half-decent relationship with my wife and an adorable little boy who means the world to me.
Anyway, must sleep now. I've got a poorly rabbit to take care of in the morning.
d
-
Peace
Tay I had an arranged marriage in the Pakistani sense, so I didn't know her before getting married. I slowly introduced her to my beliefs later on in the relationship because she started asking questions, so I answered. Her family thought for a very long time I was Salafi/Wahabi, whom Barelwi's really hate. But because I didn't wear the short trousers, it was all ok.
They've backed off now. I will still be going round their house on Saturday on my normal visit and I am sure they will bring it up, at which time I will bring forth a copy of the Quran and we can talk. Will need to invite my father round at the same time to ensure an arbiter is there. I will adhere to the correct code of conduct for debate, they will not.
-
Peace darcus,
I will never blindly allow anyone to sway me, this is the thing that gets them, I always ask for evidence when they talk their nonsense and expect me to agree. I cannot agree to a fallacy. I cannot agree to the blatant shirk they commit daily.
Is your wife the same way?peace
-
Peace
Zenje This is the crux of the matter, she does not believe as I do. I have been very gentle in explaining to her, but she has never really shown an interest. She knows very little about her own core beliefs, just that she should do them because her brother told her to. It is a shame. Something my wife said to me a few days ago - 'Why are you so rebellious?' I explained to her that I have to rebel against something I do not agree with.
Most of my life I have not felt at satisfied with what I believed. At one point I felt that there was no point to any of this, so why believe in the Almighty? Thank the Lord to guiding me back to the path. Everything happens for a reason, I do not believe in coincidence. This situation with my wife's family is I am sure, trying to tell me something about myself. Its all about growing. To be fair, I probably haven't remembered God as much for some time. I have gone back to studying, looking for the answers, asking Him. So something good is coming of this. I am sure that He is just gently bringing me back to what I should be doing.
My wife recently has been going to more of these weekly meetings that the local dawat-e-islami mosque holds for women. She has learnt many naats and even started doing namaz five times a day. Which is great for her as it makes her feel good. Just wish she would actually HEAR what I am saying, rather than just listen to it when she asks me questions. She even said that I am like Dr Zakir Naik, able to quote verses and give references for my point of view. I have advised her that it would be good for her to read the Quran with the meaning, rather than the arabic method she knows. Counting how many ayats she has read as if that is an achievement. I so pray that she gets guided before it is too late.
My father-in-law and brother-in-law don't seem to want to meet up. The situation is that they have lit the blue touch-paper and just walked away. I feel that I must act. However, I fear a trap that they are laying. If I have God on my side and the Quran in my heart, I don't see how I could fail in defending my beliefs. I feel like just telling them to let us be. It isn't really any business of any one else's what I believe, so long as my wife wants to be with me.
My rabbit isn't any better today. Must take her to the vet tomorrow if I can get time off work. She's only 3 months old, one of a litter of 5. Will write again when I can. I feel like i'm having an OOBE whilst writing this - kinda freaky.
d
