Lord of Sirius (the Mighty Star)

pvb

How do you understand this phrase?

053.049
YUSUFALI That He is the Lord of Sirius (the Mighty Star);
PICKTHAL And that He it is Who is the Lord of Sirius;
SHAKIR And that He is the Lord of the Sirius;

I googled - Lord of Sirius (the Mighty Star)

http//www.crystalinks.com/sirius.html

http//www.crystalinks.com/cube_zoroaster.html
The Cube of Zoroaster

pvb

That is is Allah who is Lord over this star?

But as you move through the verse He destroys Ad, Thamud, over thrown cities it comes to this verse-

053.056
YUSUFALI This is a Warner, of the (series of) Warners of old!
PICKTHAL This is a warner of the warners of old.
SHAKIR This is a warner of the warners of old.

pvb

It comes to "this" being a warner.

Without the Bible how do you know what Ad, is? the overthrown cities? that a raising of the dead wold occur through Jesus?

053.047
YUSUFALI That He hath promised a Second Creation (Raising of the Dead);
PICKTHAL And that He hath ordained the second bringing forth;
SHAKIR And that on Him is the bringing forth a second time;

More proof against multiple wives for men!!
053.045
YUSUFALI That He did create in pairs,- male and female,
PICKTHAL And that He createth the two spouses, the male and the female,
SHAKIR And that He created pairs, the male and the female

huruf

I don't know that these ayas are about about poligamy or monogamy. Bees are not monogamous, neither are ants. Neither are many animals. But they do reproduce through the intervention of two sexes.

On the other hand it is clear that according to the Quran marriage is a covenant between TWO persons.

pvb

Thanks, Also how do you understand this phrase?

053.049
YUSUFALI That He is the Lord of Sirius (the Mighty Star);
PICKTHAL And that He it is Who is the Lord of Sirius;
SHAKIR And that He is the Lord of the Sirius;

That it is Allah that is Lord over this star or He is the star?

Without studying the Bible how do you know what Ad, is? the overthrown cities? that a raising of the dead wold occur through Jesus?

huruf

Thanks, Also how do you understand this phrase?

053.049
YUSUFALI That He is the Lord of Sirius (the Mighty Star);
PICKTHAL And that He it is Who is the Lord of Sirius;
SHAKIR And that He is the Lord of the Sirius;

That it is Allah that is Lord over this star or He is the star?

Without studying the Bible how do you know what Ad, is? the overthrown cities? that a raising of the dead wold occur through Jesus?

Plain that it is rabb asShi3raa, just like rabb al alameen, rabb al 3arsh, rabb everything. Where is the doubt? Besides if you have read all the ayas preceeding this one, there cannot be any confusion whatsoever about what is meant. At least I am completely unable to see any ambiguity and it is completely self-expalanatory Allahu akbar al 3adhim al mussawir???

I do not know with the Bible what Ad is. In fact the Quran has reasons for mentioning Ad and with the mention it is clear what Ad is, as well as the reason why it is mentioned. I do not need, from the point of view of religion, of any other help. From an archeological point of view undoubtedly I would find interesting any knowledge. What is it that the bible should say about it and that you consider related? Same about the overthrown cities.

Your last contention about raising of the dead through Jesus I do not see it in any way whatosever substantiated (not even transubstantiated) in the aya of the Quran that you mention. I am at a loss as to how you have come to that conclusion. There is no mention of beloved Jesus nor of raising anything through him.

Again, reading the whole series of ayas you see perfectly what it is the sense of the whole thing and of the particular ayas.

Salaam

pvb

Good catch, should have read -Without studying the Bible, archeology, history how do you know what Ad is? the overthrown cities? that a raising of the dead would occur through Jesus?

The Bible shows the full reason why the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah were over thrown- Where does the Quran show this?

What do we know about the people, tribe, city of Ad from the Quran?

huruf

I don't know anything about Ad from the bible. Empires, nations, cities, are overthrown all the time, all along history. If you want to study history you may go into each of them. If you want to understand what the Quran is telling you, you can without going into that, or without going into a particular history, because the sunna of God is what it is, and the examples of it are all over, be it in the bible in the Quran oor out of them.

unknownuser

Salam,

My understanding of 5349 is

And that he is the lord of perception/estimation/measure

My understanding is based on these definitions

The root Shiin-Ayin_Ra has the following definitions for your consideration
H8175

saar
saw-ar'
A rpim root; to storm; by implication to shiver, that is, fear - be (horribly) afraid, fear, hurl as a storm, be tempestuous, come like (take away as with) a whirlwind.
BDB Definition

to storm, shiver, dread, bristle (with horror), be very afraid
1a) (Qal)
1a1) to bristle (with horror)
1a2) to dread
to storm away, sweep away, whirl away
2a) (Qal)
2a1) to sweep away
2a2) to storm away (of God?s action against the wicked) (figuratively)
2b) (Niphal) to be stormy, be tempestuous (exceedingly)
2c) (Piel) to whirl away, be stormed away
2d) (Hithpael) to storm against, come as a storm
Part of Speech verb
A Related Word by BDB/Strong?s Number a primitive root
Same Word by TWOT Number 2274d, 2275, 2276

H8176

shaar
shaw-ar'
A primitive root; to split or open, that is, (literally, but only as denominative from H8179) to act as gate keeper (see H777; (figuratively) to estimate - think.
BDB Definition

to split open, reason out, calculate, reckon, estimate
1a) (Qal) to calculate Pro_237
Part of Speech verb
A Related Word by BDB/Strong?s Number primitive root
Same Word by TWOT Number 2438

H8177

sear
seh-ar'
(Chaldee); corresponding to H8181; hair - hair.
BDB Definition

hair (of head)
Part of Speech noun masculine
A Related Word by BDB/Strong?s Number corresponding to H8181
Same Word by TWOT Number 3011

H8178

saar
sah'-ar
From H8175; a tempest; also a terror - affrighted, X horribly, X sore, storm. See H8181.
BDB Definition

storm, tempest, terror, horror
Part of Speech noun masculine
A Related Word by BDB/Strong?s Number from H8175
Same Word by TWOT Number 2275a

H8179

shaar
shah'-ar
From H8176 in its original sense; an opening, that is, door or gate - city, door, gate, port (X -er).
BDB Definition

gate
1a) gate (of entrance)
1b) gate (of space inside gate, i.e. marketplace, public meeting place)
1b1) city, town
1c) gate (of palace, royal castle, temple, court of tabernacle)
1d) heaven
Part of Speech noun masculine
A Related Word by BDB/Strong?s Number from H8176 in its original sense
Same Word by TWOT Number 2437a

H8180

shaar
shah'-ar
From H8176; a measure (as a section) - fold.
BDB Definition

a unit of measure
1a) 100 measures = 100 for 1 = 100 fold
Part of Speech noun masculine
A Related Word by BDB/Strong?s Number from H8176
Same Word by TWOT Number 2438a

H8181

sear saar
say-awr', sah'-ar
(The second form used in Isa_720); from H8175 in the sense of dishevelling; hair (as if tossed or bristling) - hair (-y), X rough.
BDB Definition

hair
1a) hair (of animals, man)
1b) hair (of garment made of hair)
Part of Speech noun masculine
A Related Word by BDB/Strong?s Number from H8175 in the sense of dishevelling
Same Word by TWOT Number 2274a

H8182

shoar
sho-awr'
From H8176; harsh or horrid, that is, offensive - vile.

H8182

shoar
From H8176; harsh or horrid, that is, offensive - vile.
BDB Definition

horrid, disgusting, vile, offensive
Part of Speech adjective
A Related Word by BDB/Strong?s Number from H8176
Same Word by TWOT Number 2439a

In Arabic can be defined as ?to know, perceive, understand?hair?.a measure?.a place where a thing is said to be??

I do not agree that indicates "a star" or even more specifically the dog star Sirius. I say this due to the history of the word in all the semitic languages and that even in Arabic alone this does not mean ?star? or ?Sirius? or ?dog star.?

I make this statement with the knowledge that there is a section in Lane?s that indicates that this could refer to the Sirius or dog star worshipped by the Arabs in pagan times. I still disagree.

Salam,
Arnab

unknownuser

Salam,

Good catch, should have read -Without studying the Bible, archeology, history how do you know what Ad is?

There are other verses about Ad in the Quran.

the overthrown cities?

There are referrences to cities being destroyed in the Tanakh, The Injeel and The Quran.

that a raising of the dead would occur through Jesus?

I believe in the Resurrection, of course. That is in the Quran.

You assert that this is to happen through Jesus. I agree to the extent that it is through ALL the prophets that we recieve the word of God and are given this and other insights and understandings. Beyond this, we may have different opinions.

The Bible shows the full reason why the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah were over thrown- Where does the Quran show this?

There are many times the Quran relates the story of Sodom and Gomorrah. Do a basic search and you will find the verses.

Salam,
Arnab

pvb

OK I found these 2 verses-

007.080
YUSUFALI We also (sent) Lut He said to his people "Do ye commit lewdness such as no people in creation (ever) committed before you?
PICKTHAL And Lot! (Remember) when he said unto his folk Will ye commit abomination such as no creature ever did before you?
SHAKIR And (We sent) Lut when he said to his people What! do you commit an indecency which any one in the world has not done before you?

007.081
YUSUFALI "For ye practise your lusts on men in preference to women ye are indeed a people transgressing beyond bounds."
PICKTHAL Lo! ye come with lust unto men instead of women. Nay, but ye are wanton folk.
SHAKIR Most surely you come to males in lust besides females; nay you are an extravagant people.

I didn't find anything about Abraham pleading for Sodom. GOD saying if there are 45 righteous people, 40, 30, 20, 10 GOD would not destroy the city? That really shows you how horrible this city was and how merciful GOD is.

IronSky

Peace to all,,
congratulations pvb, sounds like you are starting to read the Quran for guidance instead of trying to pick it apart, your right God is merciful.

Kurt

unknownuser

I didn't find anything about Abraham pleading for Sodom. GOD saying if there are 45 righteous people, 40, 30, 20, 10 GOD would not destroy the city? That really shows you how horrible this city was and how merciful GOD is.

Salam,

I agree, this important information is in Genesis.

Salam,
Arnab

pvb

IronSky-Sorry but I read the Gospel for guidance. I am still trying to figure out why Muslims hold the Quran higher that the Holy Bible.

Soof

IronSky-Sorry but I read the Gospel for guidance. I am still trying to figure out why Muslims hold the Quran higher that the Holy Bible.

Peace

Have you reflected on the fact that there are different versions of the Bible, that there are different interpretations? The Protestant Bible has 72 books, The Catholic Bible has 66. The Greek Orthodox Bible has different books in it. If you consider this to be the word of God, why has it been allowed to be abrogated and changed? Why is there no Bible in Jesus' language, Aramaic?

The characteristics of the Qur'an that compelled me to it when I was an ATHEIST was that there is a Qur'an in the language of Mohammed, there are not several versions of the Qur'an, no changes have assailed the Qur'an and it has been memorized by muslims worldwide. Who's memorized the Bible, and all its different versions, who's even read the WHOLE bible? The Qur'an has been designed for recitation, ease of understanding and clarity, because it is the final revelation, nothing could be left to conjecture.

Give me a quote in the Bible, an explicit quote where it says, "This is the Bible, sent down by God..." There is NO such self-reference. Who made this Bible then? It wasn't God. It is a compilation or a library made by man, where SOME parts of it are the words of God.

The Qur'an claims to be entirely the Word of God, it defends itself with counter-arguments against the disbelievers slanderous remarks and asks us to reflect on the signs of the World around us and our own creation, it does not expect us to rely on blind faith. It asks us to use our reason and our hearts - "have you considered this..." "or have you reflected on that?" "if you have why do you still deny My existence..?". With the changes that has taken place in the Bible, if I was to believe in it, it would have to be through blind faith, because how can I reason with something that has been changed again and again by the hands of man when people claim it to be the Word of God who is free of falsehood and is the eternal Truth?

Peace

IronSky

Peace to all

Well put Soof. Thanks

Kurt

unknownuser

Peace

Have you reflected on the fact that there are different versions of the Bible, that there are different interpretations? The Protestant Bible has 72 books, The Catholic Bible has 66. The Greek Orthodox Bible has different books in it. If you consider this to be the word of God, why has it been allowed to be abrogated and changed? Why is there no Bible in Jesus' language, Aramaic?

Salam,

The gospels are in Aramaic. It is referred to as the Peshitta.

The characteristics of the Qur'an that compelled me to it when I was an ATHEIST was that there is a Qur'an in the language of Mohammed, there are not several versions of the Qur'an, no changes have assailed the Qur'an and it has been memorized by muslims worldwide. Who's memorized the Bible, and all its different versions, who's even read the WHOLE bible? The Qur'an has been designed for recitation, ease of understanding and clarity, because it is the final revelation, nothing could be left to conjecture.

The Tanakh, The Gospels and The Quran are all in different dialects of the Semitic Language Hebrew, Aramaic, Arabic.

Give me a quote in the Bible, an explicit quote where it says, "This is the Bible, sent down by God..." There is NO such self-reference. Who made this Bible then? It wasn't God. It is a compilation or a library made by man, where SOME parts of it are the words of God.

If you don't believe in parts of the Bible how will a verse help you? But, I did a very quick search and here are two (there are MANY more) Exodus 3118, Deuteronomy 2858.

The modern Christian bible contains things like the writings of Paul and Revelations. So, I have to agree with you that the Christian bible is a compilation of nonsense mixed with scripture. The Quran outlines which parts of the Bible are scripture. But, you must read these parts in the ORIGINAL LANGUAGE and not rely on translations.

Salam,
Arnab

huruf

Salam,

The gospels are in Aramaic. It is referred to as the Peshitta.

The Tanakh, The Gospels and The Quran are all in different dialects of the Semitic Language Hebrew, Aramaic, Arabic.

If you don't believe in parts of the Bible how will a verse help you? But, I did a very quick search and here are two (there are MANY more) Exodus 3118, Deuteronomy 2858.

The modern Christian bible contains things like the writings of Paul and Revelations. So, I have to agree with you that the Christian bible is a compilation of nonsense mixed with scripture. The Quran outlines which parts of the Bible are scripture. But, you must read these parts in the ORIGINAL LANGUAGE and not rely on translations.

Salam,
Arnab

Would it be much trouble for you to put those books of the bible that you consider authentic in its entirety and their name in the Quran?

As to the gospels, ?what do you call the gospels? ?The narrative of John, Matthew, etc. as they recount in their own words the life of Jeses? ?Or only the words of Jesus without the narrative? I think the distinction is important.

Salaam

Soof

Peace

Let me clarify. I believe parts of the Bible are the words of God. Parts of it are from the Torah. Your reference to the Tanakh and the Gospels of Matthew Mark Luke and John are irrelevant because they do not claim to be divine revelation. The Tanakh is a collection like the Bible, collated by men, where some parts were not sent down in its entirety as Words from God, the Gospel and the New Testament in the Bible and the New Testament in the Tanakh are inspirations and recollections by people who were not alive at the time of Jesus Christ. On the other hand the first Torah is the Word of God, the lost Gospel of Jesus Christ is, The Psalms are and the Qur'an is. And like Huruf said you give me the books that you think are authentic, ie sent down from God to Moses and Jesus and the other prophets and are not just inspirations and I will read them.

The Peshitta was written and had the influence of man who were not even necessarily Christian

"Although previous studies had suggested that it was translated from Aramaic Targumim, this is now rejected. However, some isolated targumic influences can be seen in the text (especially in the Pentateuch and Books of Chronicles), with the addition of little interpretive asides. The style and quality of translation in the Peshitta Old Testament varies quite widely. Some parts may have been translated by Syriac-speaking Jews before being taken over by the church, while other parts may have been worked on by early Jewish converts to Christianity."
Peshitta - Wikipedia, see references below

Even if this isnt true, why has claims like these allowed to have been made in history, why have hands of man been able to change the Old Testament? The main issue of debate is the Qur'an is above all these scriptures because it is unnassailable, God has protected it from change. These books you refer to without you knowing have been changed, errors in translation have been kept in this Peshitta in SYRIAC, errors you may read and think are truthful. Which cannot be accepted when FAITH is based on these scriptures. You stating that the Gospels are in the Peshitta does not answer my question, why isn't the BIBLE in Aramaic, word for word, just like the earliest Qur'an is in Arabic word for word. The answer is because the Bible has man-made parts in it. My debate isn't directed towards the Gospel in the Peshitta, but the Bible how much truth is in it.

When you say how will a verse help me when I do not believe in parts of the Bible you missed my point. The Bible ITSELF does not include its own name, even if its truthful or not. Which makes it blindingly obvious that it is not the Word of God but contains fragments of it. Because man himself could not have even lied as the Bible was being devised and said "This Bible is the Word of God in its entirety" The quotes you give me are quotes from the 5 books of the Torah, and the name of the Bible is not said, which you still have not given me.
You give me one line from the Bible where it refers to ITSELF, where it states its name as the Bible, like the Qur'an states its name. Bring me some fragment of what you think is true. The name Bible is not put along side "divine revelation" in the Bible itself, so how can I read it believing it is the Word of God?

Peace

belH

I didn't find anything about Abraham pleading for Sodom. GOD saying if there are 45 righteous people, 40, 30, 20, 10 GOD would not destroy the city? That really shows you how horrible this city was and how merciful GOD is.

Peace

The following are the verses that shows Abraham Pleading

When fear had passed from (the mind of) Abraham and the glad tidings had reached him, he began to plead with Us for Lut's people. (11-74) For Abraham was, without doubt forbearing (of faults), compassionate, and given to look to Allah. (75) O Abraham! seek not this. The decree of thy Lord hath gone forth for them there cometh a Penalty that cannot be turned back! (76)

In order to be a true submitters, one has to believe in the Original Bible, the Old Testment and the Quran as they represent the truth from God. As were said before, the problem with the Bible and the Old Testment is the translation and not the books themselfs; as the case with some of the Quran translation,
Peace