Lord of Sirius (the Mighty Star)
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I believe this is actually "Surely He, He is the Lord of poetry" ... God is the Lord of EVERYTHING ... and HE is also the Lord of Poetry .... I do not believe this verse refers to Sirius the star ... I had previously thought it did as it had been translated as such ... but not anymore.
Gabriel is narrating the Quran .. it is the saying of Gabriel the Holy Spirit .... remember that .. Mohammad only relayed this message which started with GOD .. then Gabriel ... then Mohammad and then us.
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I believe this is actually "Surely He, He is the Lord of poetry" ... God is the Lord of EVERYTHING ... and HE is also the Lord of Poetry .... I do not believe this verse refers to Sirius the star ... I had previously thought it did as it had been translated as such ... but not anymore.
Gabriel is narrating the Quran .. it is the saying of Gabriel the Holy Spirit .... remember that .. Mohammad only relayed this message which started with GOD .. then Gabriel ... then Mohammad and then us.
I'm trying to get this clear, are you saying, the Qur'an has the words of Gabriel in it?
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Soof-
Have you reflected on the fact that there are different versions of the Bible, that there are different interpretations? The Protestant Bible has 72 books, The Catholic Bible has 66. The Greek Orthodox Bible has different books in it. If you consider this to be the word of God, why has it been allowed to be abrogated and changed? Why is there no Bible in Jesus' language, Aramaic?LOL!! You must look at the Quran with more critical eyes! Haven't you reflected on that fact that the Quran has multiple translations, different versions and some originals destroyed? That it might not even be all arabic?!
The characteristics of the Qur'an that compelled me to it when I was an ATHEIST was that there is a Qur'an in the language of Mohammed, there are not several versions of the Qur'an, no changes have assailed the Qur'an and it has been memorized by muslims worldwide. Who's memorized the Bible, and all its different versions, who's even read the WHOLE bible? The Qur'an has been designed for recitation, ease of understanding and clarity, because it is the final revelation, nothing could be left to conjecture.
You have to read the whole Bible to understand the beautiful miracle of it. It all leads up to Jesus, the WORD of GOD and why we need Jesus.
Give me a quote in the Bible, an explicit quote where it says, "This is the Bible, sent down by God..." There is NO such self-reference. Who made this Bible then? It wasn't God. It is a compilation or a library made by man, where SOME parts of it are the words of God.
LOL!! Anyone can say that!! Did John Smith say that about the mormon book?
The Qur'an claims to be entirely the Word of God, it defends itself with counter-arguments against the disbelievers slanderous remarks and asks us to reflect on the signs of the World around us and our own creation, it does not expect us to rely on blind faith. It asks us to use our reason and our hearts - "have you considered this..." "or have you reflected on that?" "if you have why do you still deny My existence..?". With the changes that has taken place in the Bible, if I was to believe in it, it would have to be through blind faith, because how can I reason with something that has been changed again and again by the hands of man when people claim it to be the Word of God who is free of falsehood and is the eternal Truth?
The Bible defends itself with prophecies. Those example could be just Mohammad trying to convince others to follow him.
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YUSUFALI That He hath promised a Second Creation (Raising of the Dead);
PICKTHAL And that He hath ordained the second bringing forth;
SHAKIR And that on Him is the bringing forth a second time;Where else has Allah promised a second coming? Why doesn't it say I if it is Allah speaking?
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Some believe this is meant for the whole Bible, some say just the Book of Revelations.
Revelation 22
18For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book
19And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book
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Some believe this is meant for the whole Bible, some say just the Book of Revelations.
Revelation 22
18For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book
19And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book
Salam pvb,
That message is in the torah and the Quran as well.
Salam,
Arnab -
Arnab - Have you seen this website? Interesting take.
http//www.angelfire.com/journal/bibleissues/islam/role.htm
Salam pvb,
Here are some brief comments on the above site.
A lot of this site is truth mixed with falsehood mostly due to the author relying on a translation.
But the general idea is summerized at the bottom of the page on the link above....
It would seem the Qur?an confirms that the Bible contains the more ?complete? revelation direct from God.
I would say that a detailed account of the prophets and things mentioned in the Quran is seen in the Tanakh and the words of Jesus in the Gospels (not the letters of Paul).
I would not use the words "more complete"
A lot of commentors will use information about Muhammad from Hadith to understand some verses of the Quran. But, in fact, the Quran is often times a summary and a reminder of previous scripture (as the Quran says time and time again).
The Christians make the same mistake with Jesus....they try to make everything in the Bible lead up to Jesus or talk about Jesus. What they should really be doing is reading the message.
The third point above shows the Bible is the universal timeless message.
The parts of the bible that are outlined in the Quran....not the WHOLE bible as the word "Bible" is understood by Christians.
Anyone who accepts the Qur?an must not only accept the Bible, but must also study it.
Yes, the parts of the Bible that are outlined in the Quran...absolutely.
But the opposite is not true. Anyone who holds the ?complete? revelation does not need the Qur?an.
I strongly disagree....the Quran was a needed reminder and clarifier.
There are major differences between these two books.
The only differences are when people rely on translations OR they try to compare the Quran to the parts of the Bible that are NOT in the Tanakh, and the Words of Isa in the Gospels.
So, basically this site is relying on conjecture as opposed to pure fact.But thanks for the link.
Most important to remember is
Love the Lord your GOD with all your heart, all your soul and All your might.
Follow his commandments and DO NOT set up partners/or placing anything or anyone above God.
Salam,
Arnab -
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YUSUFALI That He hath promised a Second Creation (Raising of the Dead);
PICKTHAL And that He hath ordained the second bringing forth;
SHAKIR And that on Him is the bringing forth a second time;Where else has Allah promised a second coming? Why doesn't it say I if it is Allah speaking?
Salam,
It doesn't say I/we because there are different speakers in the Quran.
Salam,
Arnab -
"shi3ra" means knowledge. Arabs say "laita shi3ri " meaning I wish I could know. Lisanul 3arab explains why the alif maksura disappears when a possessive pronoune is suffixed to the word.
This brings me to another word badly translated as "rituals" sha3aa'ir . Could it be related to knowledge (plural of shi3ra)?
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In the Name of God
Pvb
Respectfully, Please try and reason with all I am sayingLike what Arnab said I believe the Qur'an is a reminder and a continuation of the earlier Scriptures. I believe the system in the Qur'an has been perfected and that there will be no more revelations after. I believe that the Bible you refer to is not in its entirety the Word of God because if it was then you would hear God's voice throughout, God would leave no doubt that you are reading His scripture, this Voice is heard in the Old Testament and parts of the New Testament, which is why I said find me a passage that says "This Bible is direct revelation from God." - because in its entirety it is not but parts are - The Qur'an made this exact claim, which compelled me to read it, it is by the message, the voice and the revelations (scientific or otherwise) that are in the Book that make me believe. Of course anyone can write that like the book of Mormons or the Nation of Islam, but can they support that claim? or does it make sense to you? Of course there are followers of the Nation and of the Mormons who it made sense to, but it didn't for me. The Bible does not carry that voice all the way through, there are some bits that are added and its obvious, which casts doubt over me. With the Qur'an I feel no doubt. But that is my belief. Of course you have yours and I will not slander or attack your belief.
What you say about the Qur'an is what is prophesized in the Qur'an to be said by the disbelievers, that "he could have made it up", "he must be mad" "possessed" "had help". All of these pop up and have been since the birth of Islam, so I am not wavered by that comment, it is conjecture at the end of the day and not belief. The nature of the signs and the consistency of their ability to be verified (embryology, big bang, water cycle, wind before rain, layers in the mountains, the hypocrites and their own Hadith) makes me believe God wants us to investigate and use our reason, and not rely on blind faith. The revelation was not written by Muhammad, he was unlettered, Muhammad was chastised in the book, shown to have made mistakes, described as a mortal man, who can only perform miracles by God's leave, who's only duty is to deliver the message and not guide the people if they do not want to be guided. He is not put on a pedestal, he is not put above the other Prophets nor Jesus, God says do not make distinctions with the Prophets. There is no hidden agenda, anything that you may claim to be is guess-work and has no basis. The only proof I have in this debate is the Qur'an which I believe in - but not after reflecting and reasoning with my heart. Glory be to God.
I know there are other translations (the reason for some error when people read it) but like the Bible which I believe in parts of, the main message comes to me. The message comes to you and you believe it leads up to Jesus, and thats your belief. So if there are errors in translation, which some are obvious some you have to learn arabic to truly differentiate, even so, the message speaks out to me as a whole and it is clear and does not ask us to just guess or make up other things (Hadith) to clarify. You say there are other versions, where is your proof? where is the other Qur'an in fragments or in its entirety you speak of, what authority do you have or anyone else to say it is the Qur'an or another version? Or is it something you overheard? Something you read on the internet looking for slander for the Qur'an? Tell the truth. And when I mean different versions I don't just mean slight vowel changes or dottage (because Arabic is a language of consonants, the earliest Qur'an is in consonants alone allowing different meanings to arise) like this http//www.answering-islam.org/Green/seven.htm, show me a Qur'an with a different meaning altogether that is against the one Muslims believe in now. I know there are variations in the Pronunciation and grammar and some words are intepreted differently, which will always happen to the Scripture but read Sura 37 please and see what God is saying about this. However there are no Ayats, or Suras missing as in the Bible....NOR has anyone added a sura or an ayat to the Qur'an since its canonization as in the Bible, nor has another man been able to add his own revelation (Saul/Paul) to the Qur'an because it was memorized by so many believers during the time of Muhammad and after, but this is beyond proof, because we were not present at the time of Muhammad, so this part is a matter of faith.
If you show me the book that has unacceptable changes or some fragment and translate it for me, I will show you the book of the believers and we will see falsehood pass away. But God will decide for us all.
Peace
Ps just out of curiosity have you read the Qur'an? I am going to re-read the Bible and other scripture over the summer, God willing.
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Yes, I have read the Quran and some hadith.
As you read the Bible pray that the truth be revealed to you, that you are given insight.
Which Book are you going to start with?
Why would Mohammad verify the Gospel and Torah if verses were missing?
The Holy Bible and the Quran call Jesus the WORD of GOD
Mohammad is a sinnful man like all of us.
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YUSUFALI Patiently, then, persevere for the Promise of Allah is true and ask forgiveness for thy fault, and celebrate the Praises of thy Lord in the evening and in the morning.
PICKTHAL Then have patience (O Muhammad). Lo! the promise of Allah is true. And ask forgiveness of thy sin, and hymn the praise of thy Lord at fall of night and in the early hours.
SHAKIR Therefore be patient; surely the promise of Allah is true; and ask protection for your fault and sing the praise of your Lord in the evening and the morning.018.110
YUSUFALI Say "I am but a man like yourselves, (but) the inspiration has come to me, that your Allah is one Allah whoever expects to meet his Lord, let him work righteousness, and, in the worship of his Lord, admit no one as partner.
PICKTHAL Say I am only a mortal like you. My Lord inspireth in me that your Allah is only One Allah. And whoever hopeth for the meeting with his Lord, let him do righteous work, and make none sharer of the worship due unto his Lord.
SHAKIR Say I am only a mortal like you; it is revealed to me that your god is one Allah, therefore whoever hopes to meet his Lord, he should do good deeds, and not join any one in the service of his Lord.048.002
YUSUFALI That Allah may forgive thee thy faults of the past and those to follow; fulfil His favour to thee; and guide thee on the Straight Way;
PICKTHAL That Allah may forgive thee of thy sin that which is past and that which is to come, and may perfect His favour unto thee, and may guide thee on a right path,
SHAKIR That Allah may forgive your community their past faults and those to follow and complete His favor to you and keep you on a right way,Jesus is the one to follow
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YUSUFALI Behold! Allah said "O Jesus! I will take thee and raise thee to Myself and clear thee (of the falsehoods) of those who blaspheme; I WILL MAKE THOSE WHO FOLLOW THEE SUPERIOR TO THOSE WHO REJECT FAITH, TO THE DAY OF RESURRECTION Then shall ye all return unto me, and I will judge between you of the matters wherein ye dispute.
PICKTHAL (And remember) when Allah said O Jesus! Lo! I am gathering thee and causing thee to ascend unto Me, and am cleansing thee of those who disbelieve and AM SETTING THOSE WHO FOLLOW THEE ABOVE THOSE WHO DISBELIEVE UNTIL THE DAY OF RESURRECTION. Then unto Me ye will (all) return, and I shall judge between you as to that wherein ye used to differ.
SHAKIR And when Allah said O Isa, I am going to terminate the period of your stay (on earth) and cause you to ascend unto Me and purify you of those who disbelieve and MAKE THOSE WHO FOLLOW YOU ABOVE THOSE WHO DISBELIEVE TO THE DAY OF RESURRECTION; then to Me shall be your return, so l will decide between you concerning that in which you differed. -
You are using quotes to satisfy your point, but you are not using the whole Qur'an to show what God is really saying. So you are only reading what you want to read. Reflect on these
"Obey God, obey the Messenger, and always be on your guard if you pay no head, bear in mind that the sole duty of Our Messenger is to deliver the message clearly."
592
This shows that although Muhammad made mistakes his only purpose was to deliver the Qur'an (recitation) which is pure in its original form."The Messiah, son of Mary, was only a messenger; other messengers had come and gone before him.."
575"People of the Book, do not go to excess in your religion, and do not say anything about God except the truth the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, was nothing more than a messenger of God, His word, directed to Mary, a spirit from Him. So believe in God and His messengers and do not speak of a 'Trinity' - stop, that is better for you - God is only one God.."
4171From this I believe Jesus is God's Word and that he breathed His spirit into Mary by His word. But he is not the Son of God, he is not a partner alongside God. That is the excess God is talking about. He was a messenger first and foremost.
Those who follow the messengers and do not make any greater than the other will be rightly guided. And God will judge us accordingly.
"For the believers, the Jews, the Sabians, and the Christians - those who believe in God and the Last Day and do good deeds - there is no fear they will not grieve."
569"All the messengers We sent were meant to be obeyed, by God's leave."
464Finally
"Say, "We believe in God and in what has been sent down to us and to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob and the Tribes. We believe in what has been given to Moses, Jesus, and the prophets from their Lord. We do not make a distinction between any of the prophets. It is to Him that we devote ourselves.' If anyone seeks a religion other than complete devotion to God, it will not be accepted from him he will be one of the losers in the Hereafter."
384-85A believer by any other name is still a believer, regardless of what messenger they follow. The believers will see paradise. That is God's promise.
Peace.
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What are your thoughts on why Jesus is the Messiah and Mohammad was a warner? Are other prophets labeled with a second term?
Soof that is a very liberal statement-"A believer by any other name is still a believer, regardless of what messenger they follow. The believers will see paradise. That is God's promise."
I don't think I have ever heard a Muslim say that!!
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I believe Jesus is the Messiah, but Messiah means Annointed One/Chosen One. Its Greek look it up. He is not the Saviour, He is a messenger. Messiah can be used for anyone who is chosen to do something, the Kings of Israel were messiah, they were annointed by God. but you choose to use capital Messiah to diffrentiate and therefore imply he is the Only Messiah and the Saviour for all man. But this is my belief. You believe what you believe I do not want to offend you. I believe Mohammad was sent a reminder, a guide and a light for all time. Jesus is the Chosen One to deliver the Gospel to the World and to perform miracles. But no distinctions should be made I.E. they should be obeyed the SAME WAY. Only GOD has these distinctions, you cannot diffrentiate, you should believe in them equally and make no distinctions. Like I cannot denounce Moses or Jesus as a messenger you should not denounce Muhmmad as a messenger if you are a believer. Make sense?
What I am saying is in the Qur'an, but I'm not saying I'm judging all of man based on my own principles. Only God can judge, but He says in the Qur'an that those who believe and do good deeds will see His mercy. But those who believe will be those who do good deeds will have God's mercy. Read the Qur'an and see for yourself, it is very literal. God is the Judgement and God will help the believers. Ask any believer. Bottom line, this religion Islam is not a religion of the Prophet, it is COMPLETE devotion to God. Christianity should not be called as such. Christians have made a religion based on Jesus Christ and not his message and belief in God. So that is why God says do NOT make any distinctions because God says we should only believe in God and if messengers are sending a message about belief then IT IS the message we should obey not the actions or personality of the Prophets.
But I grow tired of this debate. I do not know if what I am saying is getting through so I will cease.
Peace
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The Quran is the narration of the the Holy Spirit Gabriel ... he is the one narrating it. It is all the Words of God spoken by whosoever GOD choses and He Himself also speaks to us .. you have to figure out where ... some places it is very evident .. others it takes understanding and concentration. Not for the light hearted though -)