israel is a state mandated by god for the jews in the quran.
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i came accross an interview with Prof. Khaleel Mohammed, the assistant professor at the Department of Religious Studies at San Diego State University and author of many books on islam. apparently it caused quite a stir in the muslim world as he teaches that the Koran says Israel belongs to the Jews. below are some excerpts
he starts; The Qur'an in Chapter 5 20-21 states quite clearly Moses said to his people O my people! Remember the bounty of God upon you when He bestowed prophets upon you , and made you kings and gave you that which had not been given to anyone before you amongst the nations. O my people! Enter the Holy Land which God has written for you, and do not turn tail, otherwise you will be losers."
...but the thrust of my analysis is where Moses says that the Holy Land is that which God has "written" for the Israelites. In both Jewish and Islamic understandings of the term "written", there is the meaning of finality, decisiveness and immutability......And in the Qur'an we have "Written upon you is the fast"--to show that this is something that is decreed, and which none can change. So the simple fact is then, from a faith-based point of view If God has "written" Israel for the people of Moses, who can change this?
.....when the Muslims entered that land in the seventh century, they were well aware of its rightful owners, and when they failed to act according to divine mandate (at least as perceived by followers of all Abrahamic faiths), they aided and abetted in a crime. And the present situation shows the fruits of that action--wherein innocent Palestinians and Israelis are being killed on a daily basis.
....The idea that Israel does not belong to the Jews is a modern one, probably based on the Mideast rejection of European colonialism etc, but certainly not having anything to do with the Qur'an. The unfortunate fact is that most Muslims do NOT read the Qur?an and interpret it on the basis of its own words; rather they let imams and preachers do that for them.
...How did the Jews lose their right to live in the Holy Land? All reliable reports show that it was by the looting and burning that followed from 70-135 C.E. When the Muslims entered the place in 638, liberating it from the Byzantines, they knew full well to whom it rightfully belonged. But we find that Muslim chroniclers state that the Muslim caliph accepting the surrender of the Byzantine Christian representative, Sophronius, on certain terms, one of them being that the Jews would not be permitted to enter the city. I personally have a hard time accepting this story, and aspects of its historicity because as modern scholarship has shown, Muslim reports about that time were recorded long after the fact and are not as reliable as once thought. And we know too that when the first Crusaders took possession of the place in 1096-1099, they slaughtered Jews and Muslims. If Umar had indeed signed such a treaty, what were Jews doing there?
By aiding and abetting in a crime, I refer to when Abdul Malik built the mosque there, and had false traditions ascribed to Muhammad wherein the Prophet is supposed to have said that a man should set out for a journey only for three mosques, the ones in Mecca, Medina and Jerusalem. Now how could the prophet have said this when ALL Muslims agree that when the Qur?an states "this day I have completed for you your religion" (Q53), that Jerusalem was not within Muslim geography? The completion means just that...with the Arabic Qur'an for the Arab peoples, and the aspect of conquest of foreign territory NOT an injunction of Qur?anic Islam.
When the Muslims conquered Jerusalem, it should have been left open for the rightful owners to return. It is possible that Jewish beliefs of the time only allowed such return under a Messiah--but that should not have influenced Muslim action. And in contrast to the report of Sophronius above, there are also reports showing that Umar in fact opened the city to the Jews. If this be the case, then the later Muslim occupation and building a mosque on the site of the Temple was something that was not sanctioned by The Qur?an. How honest is contemporary Islam with this? Given the situation in the Middle East, politiking etc stands in the way of honesty.
here is <a href="http//frontpagemag.com/articles/Read.aspx?GUID=134C7CDA-8B3A-44A2-AC6C-792B0B25F0EE">full interview</a> for anyone interested. he seems like a great professor. and i think i agree with his opinion that israel should be a land run and owned by jewish people as they wish. its unfortunate that so many people are now the victims of atrocities that are being carried out as result of the bad decisions made by people a millenium ago. but there is one question i did have for him. i tried to contact him but he is away from recieving emails at his college address. the question is where exactly should the borders of the state of israel lie? certainly it should encompass jerusalem, all of jerusalem including the temple mount, but where else. the quran doesnt provide any answers...i tried to find a solution in the torah but there are three seperate passages that refer to different borders
one is <a href="http//www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Numbers%20341-15;&version=31;">numbers 34 1-15</a>
another <a href="http//www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=ezekiel%204713-20;&version=31;">exekiel 47 13-20</a>
and still another <a href="http//www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis%201518-21;&version=31;>genesis 15 18-21</a>
there are also alot of references to the holy land being "from dan to beersheba".not sure which version to accept. anyone have any knowledge on which chapters of the torah might be the more legitimate? also anyone have any evidence to the contrary? that israel should ultimately be a nation under the thumb of islamic rule?
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The mistake is that when God says he has given something to 'you', people assume he is talking about them, only about a family or a tribe. This is just selfish wishful thinking. When God says 'You' he means 'Us', the human race. God isn't tribal. He doesn't care who your parents are, as he created all of us. 'The People' God gave the land to are the whole human race.
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Land_(song)
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i think you have a point, but this doesnt seem to be the case when you read that line in context with the verse that contains it.
5 20-21 states quite clearly Moses said to his people O my people! Remember the bounty of God upon you when He bestowed prophets upon you , and made you kings and gave you that which had not been given to anyone before you amongst the nations. O my people! Enter the Holy Land which God has written for you, and do not turn tail, otherwise you will be losers."
moses is clearly speaking only to the people who are being guided by him who had "been given things not given to anyone before them amongst the nations", and now they are havig a land specifically designated for them to live.
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Salam,
For your considerations are some thoughts on verses based on the Hebrew.
The term beni Israel....beni (builders) ysr (straight/most upright) el (God)....based on Hebrew
So when you see "ya beni israel" you can see...oh you buiders of the straight path of God (or something close to that). Anyone who builds/works on the straight path of God is beni israel. It is not a country to wcrhich believers and unbelievers alike can claim residence.
Likewise, when you see ya alanass...you can also see "oh you who are weak/frail." Notice that the verses comment on the state of weakness of mankind. This is also seen in the Old Testament.
Salam,
Arnab -
This is wonderful. The peak of human intelect, of rigorous logic, Christian Zionnism, is soon going to have a companion in the realm of spiritual illumination cum seudo genetics and world wide real estate
meet Muslim Zionnism.
I hope I can avoid vomiting.
Salaam
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So when you see "ya beni israel" you can see...oh you buiders of the straight path of God (or something close to that). Anyone who builds/works on the straight path of God is beni israel. It is not a country to wcrhich believers and unbelievers alike can claim residence.
peace,
the verse from the quran doesnt call israel by name. this is just the name modern jews have given to it. the origins of this word is insignificant. the quran does say though that a specific land has been "written" for the jews for which moses is to lead them to.
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Salam,
the verse from the quran doesnt call israel by name. this is just the name modern jews have given to it. the origins of this word is insignificant. the quran does say though that a specific land has been "written" for the jews for which moses is to lead them to.
I know. I was commenting on the first post.
As far as 520-21 is conceerned...
Please look at the verses carefully before you accept the translation you are using.520
521
Look up each word individually and try not to look at the translations. You may see something differently.
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Peace Everyone
You misunderstood the whole story. The truth is?The Palestinians are not Arabs, they are the Israelis who followed Jesus and became Christian, and the ones who followed the message of Mohamed and became Moslems.?
Thus, The Land belongs to all of them.
Please read the following if you want to know why.
Dear brothers and sisters
I would like to share with you an explanation for the most complicated and misunderstood conflict in our time? The Palestinian & Israelis Conflict. In 2006, during the Israel and Lebanon war, I started a research (using the Qran and other history books) that focused in finding solution for this bloody conflict. My findings were a surprise for me and for every body I shared with.
The following is a brief from my research paperWho are the Children of Israel?
The name ?Israel?, according to the Old Testament, New Testament, and Qur?an refers to the prophet ?Jacob? (peace be upon him), who was the son of prophet ?Isaac? (peace be upon him).
According to history, Jacob lived in the land that is witnessing the conflict, which is known by Palestine or the State of Israel, in our resent days (the same land was known by ?Ard El-Shaam?, in the Arabic language).
According to history, about 1600 years BCE, Jacob and his family (the Children of Israel) migrated to Egypt due to the famine. They lived in Egypt for more than 400 years, until Prophet ?Moses? (peace be upon him) led them back to the Holly Land that God promised them to live in, which is ?Jerusalem? (part of Palestine).
For more than 700 years, the Children of Israel grow in number and continued living in Jerusalem and the surrounding areas (i.e., Lebanon, Jordan, Syria, and Palestine).
From 722 BCE- until the begging of the Christ time period, many tribes and empires, such as, Assyrians, Babylonia, and finally the Roman conquered the Children of Israel land. During that time, the Children of Israel had the same religion, which is Judaism.
When Jesus (peace be upon him) started his message (about 20 CE), the Israelis religion belief, Judaism, was divided. In other words, the children of Israel became Jews and Christians.
In the same period (about year 73 CE), the Roman and the Christian Israelis exiled the Jews Israelis out of Palestine.
In year 636 CE, the Arabs entered the Holly Land in hope of spreading the Islam religion that came through Prophet ?Mohamed? (peace be upon him).
When the religion of Islam started spreading, some of the Children of Israel converted to Islam. In other words, the Children of Israel became Jews, Christians, and Moslems.
Since the exile of the Jews from Palestine by the Christians Israelis and the Romans, in year 73 CE, the Jews Israelis have lost their control over Palestine, and continued living all over the world, until year 1948 CE. All of us know, that 1948 is the time when the conflict started by the return of the Jews Israelis to Palestine.
Today, the Children of Israel are identified by their Jews belief, but the ones who had converted to Christianity or Islam are not.
There is a hope, which can help us to identify the forgotten Christian and Moslem Israelis (no one until today have claimed such an honor relationship), that is the ?DNA? blood analysis (i.e., a blood analysis by which scientists can trace a relationship between humans, or their original ancestors).
There are hundred of studies I came cross, but I will mention one of them, which is the one that was done by Dean Hamer (2004).
In a DNA testing of 1,371 Jewish and non-Jewish people from Africa, Asia, and Europe, it was found that the Jews carried different DNA from the non-Jewish who live in Asia, Europe, and Africa. But the DNA of the Jews is similar to the non-Jews who are living in Lebanon, Syria, and Palestine. In other words, it was proven that a blood relation between the Jews, Lebanese, Syrian, and Palestinian exist. But due to the fact that those people speak Arabic, the researcher raised the question of how can Arabs be related to the Children of Israel? His answer was that they are the descendents of Ishmael, the son of Abraham, who is related to Jacob (i.e., Ishmael is the uncle of Jacob). But, are the people who live in Saudi Arabia, Egypt, or Morocco carry the same DNA as the Jews, Palestinian, Syrian, and Lebanese have? If such match exists, the researcher and the other studies would have mentioned it. Moreover, the language cannot determine a blood relationship. In other words, not every person who speaks Arabic is Arab; the same as every person who speaks English is not native British.
Are the Palestinians, Lebanese, Syrians, and Jordanians whom are living today, are the lost and forgotten Israelis?
I always believed that the study of the conflict between Israelis and Palestinians is not only very complicated, but also challenging in reaching successful solutions; And the reason behind that is the use of the common FALS assumption Arab-Israeli conflict.Refrences
Ami Isseroff (2001). A Brief History of Israel and Palestine and the Conflict. Middle East Web. Retrieved on 07/25/2006 from http//www.mideastweb.org/briefhistory.htm
Children of Israel. Wikipedia wed. Retrieved on 07/25/2006 from http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Children_of_Israel
Hamer, D., (2004), The God Gene How Faith Is Hardwired Into Our Genes. (Page 190) (Doubleday, New York)
History of Israel (2004 edition). Retrieved 07/25/2006 from http//www.israel.org/MFA/Facts+About+Israel/History/Facts+About+Israel-+History.htm History of Christianity. Wikipedia Web. Retrieved on 7/25/2006 from http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Christianity
Israel Science and Technology Homepage. Arab- Israeli Conflict. Retrieved 07/25/2006 from http//www.science.co.il/Arab-Israeli-conflict.asp
Joel Beinin, Lisa Hajjar (2000). Palestine, Israel and the Arab-Israeli Conflict A Primer. The Middle East Research and Information Project. Retrieved 07/25/2006 from http//www.merip.org/palestine-israel_primer/intro-pal-isr-primer.html
Jewish Genetics Abstracts and Summaries, A collection of abstracts and reviews of books, articles, and genetic studies. Kazaria Info Center. Retrieved on 7/31/06 form http//www.khazaria.com/genetics/abstracts.html
& http//www.khazaria.com/genetics/abstracts-cohen-levite.html
Tarak Swidan (2000). The Stories of The Profits. Tape Recordings. -
care to elaborate?
Salam dc2,
I'm at a place in my spiritual development where I have decided not to make translations.
If I use one English word or a group of them to translate the words it limits the verses.
And therefore changes the words from their places.
Also, An arabic word can be understood in many different ways at once. There are few English words that do the same.
have you discovered something yourself?
Yes, I see something differently than has been presented.
If you look up the words one by one, you may, insha Allah, see what I see. peace
Salam,
Arnab -
Salam Belalhammad,
Maybe you can shed some light on a question I have regarding the dna research. I have not read much on the subject.
Since we know that in Judaism, Christianity, and Islam anyone could convert at any time and become one of those faiths, how can anyone say that there could even be a dna link?
Salam,
Arnab -
Salam Belalhammad,
My question is
How can we say that there is a DNA link that scientists can follow to see if someone is a descendant of Jacob?
I don't think an honest scientist can say with certainty that the dna they are sampling actually came from a descendant of Jacob.
This is why I say this
Anyone could convert to judaism at anytime and become jewish (same for christianity and Islam) in which case they would not have the "jewish" dna in their system.
Say that a whole town or group of people converted. Say that of that town some of the people do not marry into people carrying the "jewish" dna.
So therefore you have a group of people who are not carrying the jewish dna yet ARE jewish.Same goes for those who became disbelievers. They have the Jewish dna and it is passed down generation to generation yet that family is not jewish.
There is too much conversion and rejection of the faith that has gone on for thousands of years.
So then this study comes along (in the 20th/21st century) and...
family A says you can count us as jewish we know we have been jewish for hundreds of years (but little did this family know that at some point there was a conversion and no "jewish" dna present in their system)
Then you have family B who says you can count us as non-jewish...we have never been jewish (but little does this family know that at one point they were jewish and they actually HAVE the "jewish" dna).
Then there is family c jewish through and through with the jewish dna
and family d non-jewish through and through with NO jewish dna.
This cannot be a TRUE scientific study then in the first place with so much ambiguity.
I think my question/comment is in support of your post...not in opposition.
This is my observation. But maybe you can clarify something I'm missing.
Salam,
Arnab -
Salam dc2,
I'm at a place in my spiritual development where I have decided not to make translations.
If I use one English word or a group of them to translate the words it limits the verses.
And therefore changes the words from their places.
Also, An arabic word can be understood in many different ways at once. There are few English words that do the same.
Yes, I see something differently than has been presented.
If you look up the words one by one, you may, insha Allah, see what I see. peace
Salam,
Arnabwell how about summarizing what you have observed or concluded without compromising your spiritual development by translating the actual verse?
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Anyone could convert to judaism at anytime and become jewish (same for christianity and Islam) in which case they would not have the "jewish" dna in their system.
Salam
You are right; and that is why there are people from Ethiopia who carry Israeli Citizenship (they do not have the same DNA !).
I?m 100% sure that God Wrote this land to the Children of Israel in The Quran.
The Jew Children of Israel were out of the Land until 1948, but the Moslem and Christian ones never left the land. Thus, the Palestinian, Lebanese, Syrian, and most of the Jordanian are the Pure Israelis who never left the Promised Land. Nevertheless, the Jews ones have all the right to go back and live in the same land.
We need to make the Christian and Moslem ones, especially the Palestinian, stop claiming that they are Arabs; otherwise they will lose their right to own and live in this Holly Land.My post was to clarify the misunderstanding that was created by the study that was mentioned by dc2. Nevertheless, I admire him or here for bringing this for debate in order for people to know the truth, and stop denying the Quran verse that give the Title of the Land to the Israeli.
Peace peace
By the way, the study that I mentioned (the DNA) that was done by Hamer was done in a Precise way. The Jews people whom he chose, were very carefuly picked (they are very will known in the Jewish community).
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The blessed land surrounding the bait ul ateeq has been written by God to the Progeny of Israel .. the chosen people above those that know for the Grace of GOD. Do not argue with this point, you will fall further into schism. The land was taken away from them at the coming of the "first promise" ... when pharaoh enslaved the progeny of Israel ... until God Himself sent Moses and Aaron with clear authority to take them out form the punishment that was on them.
when the second "promise" comes "We will bring you all together" (i.e. the progeny of Israel (Jacob)) ... that has already happened when they regained the land in 1948 ..... now we wait for the promise of God .. and His punishment .. and for the Messiah to return. Stop your quibbling over this issue, God has chosen the Progeny of Israel (Jacob) above all those that know for His Grace, God has favorites ... just like you and I. Not all are equal in the eyes of GOD ... if you want the truth ... the believers are His loved ones .. the Spirit and the Angels are His closest ones .... Jesus is one of the closest to God .... the only one specifically stated to be of the closest in the Quran from Mankind.
Go and try and dispute with me ... you will fail ....... go and read the Quran .. and stop listening to me and the others .... listen to the Quran .. and nothing else for guidance to GOD .. and confirm it by reading the Torah and the Bible.
Peace!!
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Salam,
For your considerations are some thoughts on verses based on the Hebrew.
The term beni Israel....beni (builders) ysr (straight/most upright) el (God)....based on Hebrew
So when you see "ya beni israel" you can see...oh you buiders of the straight path of God (or something close to that). Anyone who builds/works on the straight path of God is beni israel. It is not a country to wcrhich believers and unbelievers alike can claim residence.
Likewise, when you see ya alanass...you can also see "oh you who are weak/frail." Notice that the verses comment on the state of weakness of mankind. This is also seen in the Old Testament.
Salam,
ArnabSalam sis Arnab
You seem to be attempting to link NAAS to NISAA somehow. Please elaborate if I have misunderstood.
Also, I am trying to get towards the OT in Hebrew (so far I have gotten only uptil the baraasheet)... good observation, however, I personally found the Quran to deviate significantly form the OT if you read betwen the lines so to speak. -
Go to any website which has Qur'anic verses which talks about 'Jews' as you people think. Press Ctrl + F and write 'Jew'. See the word anywhere? Nope. Research first. This Sheikh is a complete moron but it is not suprising. He only knows religion because he is truly primitive and probaly has the ethics and morals of a carpet just like the majority sheikhs. This proves that he knows nothing about the Qur'an. A complete hmar and a failure on his part.
The Qur'an only mentions the children of the Israelites i.e. the Israelites. Not European Jews nor IsraeLIES. But of course this Sheikh will use the Qur'an and then throw it away into the trash can when it no longer suits his purpose. Anything to justify the existance of Israel.
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probaly has the ethics and morals of a carpet just like the majority sheikhs.
So I can pray on top of him?