Islamic Calendar Article
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Salaams all ,
i can't see a callander in the quran apart from these ayats-and it doesn't give any details as to a callender system just that we can use the sun and the moon for counting the time,as i can see plus no daught there may be some mistranslation aswell as usual.It is He Who made the sun to be a shining glory and the moon to be a light (of beauty), and measured out stages for her; that ye might know the number of years and the count (of time). Nowise did Allah create this but in truth and righteousness. (Thus) doth He explain His Signs in detail, for those who understand
The number of months in the sight of Allah is twelve (in a year)- so ordained by Him the day He created the heavens and the earth; of them four are sacred that is the straight usage. So wrong not yourselves therein, and fight the Pagans all together as they fight you all together. But know that Allah is with those
Can you see a callender?
Bye.
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ooof. I must disagree here.
Just because we use the Lunar calendar is 11 days shorter than the Solar, doesn't mean that it's out of whack. God knows this and I'm sure it's on purpose. Ramadhan moves around every year, and this in itself is a blessing for a religion that covers the whole world.
The month of fasting is sometimes in the winter months and sometimes in the summer months, depending on where you are located. This is a mercy, so that those who are in the upper lattitudes dont have to deal with long days of fasting every single year. In 19 years, you've fasted Ramadhan in every possible season and length of day.
And yes, the Qur'an BEGAN being revealed on a specific night, but who's to say it's a specific night according to the solar count? The Sun is used to regulate our daily rituals and counting the hours, whereas the Moon is used for counting the years and holy events. I suspect it's the Moon-Earth alignment that is most important here, since night time is constnatly referred to be the best time for praying. While the Sun has always been associated with idolatry, how many times does the Qur'an mention God's prophets coming to a people "Ya3bidoun al-Shams", worhsipping the Sun. The choosing of a Lunar cycle could very well be Divine Wisdom in showing poeple that the Sun is nothing more than a light to set our day of time with.
Wallahu a3lam.
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Salaams Mo,
please see this to know what are the forbidden months and then you might agree that the western callender of twelve months is idealy -quranic.
Because if you believe what this guy is saying then the forbidden months need to be fixed.
http//www.free-minds.org/Arab_Conspiracy.html
Salaams.
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Salaam brother.
Ya i read that article when i first started considering the Qur'an Only movement, which i found very attractive. But after reading it, i got completely turned off from the whole thing and went back to tradition. To me, it shows to what extent people can twist meanings of words in order to make them anytyhing, especially in Arabic because of the root system.
I mean, whatever ) I completely disagree with the whole calendar argument, and i've argued my point quite well on the other thread
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=59133#59133To claim an arab conspiracy against Islam and Allah is waaaay out there. And i should know, because i believe in an NWO/Illuminati conspiracy. But to say that after 1400 years of history, which included 1000 years of cultural, scientific, medical superiority of Arabs and Muslims over the entire world, that all that was based on falsehood is completely CRAZY.
Aidid has shown nothing more than his lack of historical sense and displays a great imagination. Rock worship!? HAHAHA
Granted the Muslims have gone into decadence in the past 200 years due to both external and internal factors, but to say that the whole of Islam is a sham. Not buying it.
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To claim an arab conspiracy against Islam and Allah is waaaay out there. And i should know, because i believe in an NWO/Illuminati conspiracy. But to say that after 1400 years of history, which included 1000 years of cultural, scientific, medical superiority of Arabs and Muslims over the entire world, that all that was based on falsehood is completely CRAZY.
But you have no problem with a brotherhood of ideas who have been manipulating for some 5000 years that we know of.???
Or a manipulative vatican that held christianity hostage for some 1500 years?
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But you have no problem with a brotherhood of ideas who have been manipulating for some 5000 years that we know of.???
Or a manipulative vatican that held christianity hostage for some 1500 years?
No because the proof of that conspiracy is clear as day. and in my mind, the only safe haven against all that has been the Muslim world..and hence its been the focus of so many attacks in the recent past..nameely the last couple hundred years.
One thing i have learned while researching the conspiracies is not to be too gullible of everything, and this specific bit deserves alot more of my scrutiny than any other conspiracy because it would mean that even God's order has been compromised, and if i was a Quranite..then maybe Id find this alot easier to swallow. But im not, at least not yet. The evidence for following Allah and His Messenger are too overwhelming to ignore.
"Allah did confer a great favour on the believers when He sent among them an apostle from among themselves, rehearsing unto them the Signs of Allah, sanctifying them, and instructing them in Scripture and Wisdom, while, before that, they had been in manifest error."
That instruction must've served for something.
"And We have sent down unto thee (also) the Message; that thou mayest explain clearly to men what is sent for them, and that they may give thought."
"And We sent down the Book to thee for the express purpose, that thou should make clear to them those things in which they differ, and that it should be a guide and a mercy to those who believe."The prophet wasn't simply a messenger, but a teach and a judge amongst us.
"Those who follow the apostle, the unlettered Prophet, whom they find mentioned in their own (scriptures),- in the law and the Gospel;- for he commands them what is just and forbids them what is evil; he allows them as lawful what is good (and pure) and prohibits them from what is bad (and impure); He releases them from their heavy burdens and from the yokes that are upon them. So it is those who believe in him, honour him, help him, and follow the light which is sent down with him,- it is they who will prosper."
...And whatsoever the Messenger (Muhammad (sallallaahu`alaihiwasallam) gives you, take it, and whatsoever he forbids you, abstain (from it) , and fear Allah. Verily, Allah is severe in punishment."He tells us what is forbidden and what is lawful..not just the Quran.
And of course there's more. Now im not advocating the blind acceptance of all Hadith. But the Sunna itself, which i maintain is seperate from Hadith, is practice..physical ritual that was passed down generation after generation since the time of the prophet. Much harder to invent than sayings if you ask me. People didnt just start performing the Hajj out of nowhere. Or pray 5 times a day out of nowhere.
There have been many Quranite sects and yet none of them had successfully argued their point, wouldn't God have led them to victory and made His Deen foremost amongst all other beliefs had they been correct? As He promised? No. In fact mainstream Islam fits that profile.
Im not ready to follow the whims of a comfortably fed westernized mind that tells me what Islam should be..1400 after the fact..while denying 1400 years of amazing history for Islam and Muslims....
Nor do i believe its up to anyone to interpret the Qur'an...
We are intelligent enough to see who Allah (swt) is hinting by studying the life of the Holy Prophet (pbuh) and the four Khulafa-e-Rashideen.
There is no clergy in Islam. That is true. So what is an Imam? An imam is appointed or given status by others to one who has reached a high level of Islamic knowledge and one who has enough knowledge and wisdom to lead the Muslims.
Therefore, Imams are people who are "in the know". Anyone cannot become an Imam. That would be pure ignorance. Allah (swt) commands the Holy Prophet (pbuh). Allah (swt) command us that if we have doubt about the message that was sent from Allah (swt), then ASK THOSE WHO KNOW
And before thee also the messengers We sent were but men, to whom We granted inspiration if ye realise this not, ask of those who possess the Message.
The Arabic term here is "AhlaDhikr".. i.e. "those who remember" or "those who know" i.e. those who learn the history and keep knowledge preserved.
Also, we read
If they had referred it to the Messenger and to those of authority among them, then those of them whose task it is to find it out would have known the matter"
so when a person comes to me and says "i think" or "in my opinion" in regards to the Quran..thats the height of arrogance.
So no..you will not see a verse saying "follow Imam Bukhari" (altho i dont agree with Bukhari..but for sake of argument) is not the type of language that the Qur'an uses and you should know that. Allah does not go down to such specific level. He would then have to mention every other shcolar by name too. Also, too much importance would be given to Imam Bukhari if he was commanded to be followed by name. There is wisdom in all this. Allah (swt) is the knower of All things. He uses words of wisdom and that carry an absolute truth meaning in them. He doesn't use words just because some idiot on free-minds.org (sorry) doesn't understand simple language and needs to redefine a word according to the PRL. In fact He delibrately uses words that carry vast meaning so that in His Divine language, the word encompasses many things.
Lets not deny either that each verse has meaning upon meaning upon meaning. This is known...so ur efforts here will end up misleading many..while maybe leading a few..im sorry to say..but that is my assessment so far )
soooooo drop the issue of my acceptance of the Quran Only method for now.
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No because the proof of that conspiracy is clear as day. and in my mind, the only safe haven against all that has been the Muslim world..and hence its been the focus of so many attacks in the recent past..nameely the last couple hundred years.
Another perspective could be that God is telling us something. The muslim world is not excacty a beacon of light, so obviously something did go horribly wrong.
One thing i have learned while researching the conspiracies is not to be too gullible of everything, and this specific bit deserves alot more of my scrutiny than any other conspiracy because it would mean that even God's order has been compromised, and if i was a Quranite..then maybe Id find this alot easier to swallow. But im not, at least not yet. The evidence for following Allah and His Messenger are too overwhelming to ignore.
there is no evidence that following the messenger means to follow scriptures other than Qur'aan
"Allah did confer a great favour on the believers when He sent among them an apostle from among themselves, rehearsing unto them the Signs of Allah, sanctifying them, and instructing them in Scripture and Wisdom, while, before that, they had been in manifest error."
That instruction must've served for something.
Yes obviously, he came to a people who had'nt had a messenger before. So they would indeed need it to be explained. But we can read that other people allready knew e.g salat.
"And We have sent down unto thee (also) the Message; that thou mayest explain clearly to men what is sent for them, and that they may give thought."
"And We sent down the Book to thee for the express purpose, that thou should make clear to them those things in which they differ, and that it should be a guide and a mercy to those who believe."
The prophet wasn't simply a messenger, but a teach and a judge amongst us.
Yes, and he used Qur'aan to do so and nothing else. And he told us to do the same. thank you for proving my point especially with the last verse posted.
"Those who follow the apostle, the unlettered Prophet, whom they find mentioned in their own (scriptures),- in the law and the Gospel;- for he commands them what is just and forbids them what is evil; he allows them as lawful what is good (and pure) and prohibits them from what is bad (and impure); He releases them from their heavy burdens and from the yokes that are upon them. So it is those who believe in him, honour him, help him, and follow the light which is sent down with him,- it is they who will prosper."
I agree, and all we need to do is read Qur'aan to find out what that was all about.
...And whatsoever the Messenger (Muhammad (sallallaahu`alaihiwasallam) gives you, take it, and whatsoever he forbids you, abstain (from it) , and fear Allah. Verily, Allah is severe in punishment."
yes we should indeed share the spoils of war
He tells us what is forbidden and what is lawful..not just the Quran.
"Oh Prophet, WHY do you forbid "TUHARAM" that which God has made lawful "AHAL" in order to please your wives. God is Merciful and Forgiving. God has decreed to you how to revoke your oaths, and God is your Lord. He is most Wise and Knowledgeable" (66/1-2)
He was however not allowed to invent any laws. Several "laws" are added through hadeeth and sunna. The law can be found in Qur'aan
And of course there's more. Now im not advocating the blind acceptance of all Hadith. But the Sunna itself, which i maintain is seperate from Hadith, is practice..physical ritual that was passed down generation after generation since the time of the prophet. Much harder to invent than sayings if you ask me. People didnt just start performing the Hajj out of nowhere. Or pray 5 times a day out of nowhere.
No both practices were likely to have been practiced before the prophet, and then just continued when he died, and ascribed to him. But this is my oppinion, not a fact. You know, in my family we have always cut of the end of the roast of thrown that out. Everybody did this, and told that is because how grandmom did hers, and it was wonderfull.
So i asked grandmom, why? And she told me, well actually its from my mother, out pot was not big enough for the roast so we had to cut off the end. So here we have a ritual that all abide by in the belief that it does something to the quality of the meal, when in fact the explanation was really simple and streight forward.There have been many Quranite sects and yet none of them had successfully argued their point, wouldn't God have led them to victory and made His Deen foremost amongst all other beliefs had they been correct? As He promised? No. In fact mainstream Islam fits that profile.
Yes, as seen on the succes it wields in the world. Im not buying that for a minute. He altso tells us that if we follow THE MAJORITY, we will be wrong.
Im not ready to follow the whims of a comfortably fed westernized mind that tells me what Islam should be..1400 after the fact..while denying 1400 years of amazing history for Islam and Muslims....
There is a lot of historical "facts" that i dont accept. this is just one more of them.
Nor do i believe its up to anyone to interpret the Qur'an...
Then why give it to us? why not just give us the explanation you belive is from the Prophet? and spare the paper of Qur'aan?
We are intelligent enough to see who Allah (swt) is hinting by studying the life of the Holy Prophet (pbuh) and the four Khulafa-e-Rashideen.
There is no clergy in Islam. That is true. So what is an Imam? An imam is appointed or given status by others to one who has reached a high level of Islamic knowledge and one who has enough knowledge and wisdom to lead the Muslims.
But only if he follow the path that you yourself do right?
Therefore, Imams are people who are "in the know". Anyone cannot become an Imam. That would be pure ignorance. Allah (swt) commands the Holy Prophet (pbuh). Allah (swt) command us that if we have doubt about the message that was sent from Allah (swt), then ASK THOSE WHO KNOW
And this would be whom, according to you?
And before thee also the messengers We sent were but men, to whom We granted inspiration if ye realise this not, ask of those who possess the Message.
The Arabic term here is "AhlaDhikr".. i.e. "those who remember" or "those who know" i.e. those who learn the history and keep knowledge preserved.
Also, we read
If they had referred it to the Messenger and to those of authority among them, then those of them whose task it is to find it out would have known the matter"
So who are they, do you reckon?
so when a person comes to me and says "i think" or "in my opinion" in regards to the Quran..thats the height of arrogance.
I find it more arrogant to claim that God cannot communicate a book to his servants that they can understand and use as a practical tool in their lifes. But we can easily understand 50.000 pages of story's written by saintly schoolars. It just doesnt fly...
...In fact He delibrately uses words that carry vast meaning so that in His Divine language, the word encompasses many things.
Thank you for agreeing with us all. Because that is what you do right here. This is why the socalled Quranic movements may appear not to be succesfull. No, they are not succesfull as cults, that is true. But as personal enlightenment they are very.
Lets not deny either that each verse has meaning upon meaning upon meaning. This is known...so ur efforts here will end up misleading many..while maybe leading a few..im sorry to say..but that is my assessment so far )
soooooo drop the issue of my acceptance of the Quran Only method for now.
You are entitled to your oppinion. I disagree though.
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Another perspective could be that God is telling us something. The muslim world is not excacty a beacon of light, so obviously something did go horribly wrong.
Ya not today, nor for the last little while. But any historian will tell you of the great multicultural and rational civilization that existed in Muslim lands. Of course they didn't reinvent the wheel they absorbed greek philosophy and took it to the next level, they adopted indian numerals but applied them to make algebra and calculus, they collected medical knowledge from all poeples and consolidated that and took it further. all based on injunctions to "walk the Earth and see how God began Creation"
Yes obviously, he came to a people who had'nt had a messenger before. So they would indeed need it to be explained. But we can read that other people allready knew e.g salat.
But we are a people who've never had a Messenger. In the same way that the Arabs didn't. They KNEW of other Messengers since you had Yahud and Nasara living among them. And they used to trade with Syria and Abyssinia and Yemen, so they have been exposed to these ideas. And some of the Arabs followed those religions and not all were Kuffar. So i see that all common-folk need it explained.
But ok, lets say we can all interpret it as we please, wouldnt this cause more division than anything. Simple example of the Mu'tazillat. They were Quranites, and in the end they ended up disagreeing amongst each other over everything because there was no standard of interpretation.
btw. So salaat to you is not simply a "commitment" as many say on here?
Yes, and he used Qur'aan to do so and nothing else. And he told us to do the same. thank you for proving my point especially with the last verse posted.
Ok but since he's the best of the explainer, shouldn't we follow an example or setup some basic sense of a standard? Are we better than him that we can explain it using nothing else, not even the aid of Jibril, as he did? And his companions would refer everything to him so he would judge among them, otherwise they would've disbelieved.
"Those who follow the apostle, the unlettered Prophet, whom they find mentioned in their own (scriptures),- in the law and the Gospel;- for he commands them what is just and forbids them what is evil; he allows them as lawful what is good (and pure) and prohibits them from what is bad (and impure); He releases them from their heavy burdens and from the yokes that are upon them. So it is those who believe in him, honour him, help him, and follow the light which is sent down with him,- it is they who will prosper."
I agree, and all we need to do is read Qur'aan to find out what that was all about.
Qur'an First. But not Qur'an Alone. )
...And whatsoever the Messenger (Muhammad (sallallaahu`alaihiwasallam) gives you, take it, and whatsoever he forbids you, abstain (from it) , and fear Allah. Verily, Allah is severe in punishment."
yes we should indeed share the spoils of war
OK ill give you that one...but im gonna get back at you for it...
"Oh Prophet, WHY do you forbid "TUHARAM" that which God has made lawful "AHAL" in order to please your wives. God is Merciful and Forgiving. God has decreed to you how to revoke your oaths, and God is your Lord. He is most Wise and Knowledgeable" (66/1-2)
He was however not allowed to invent any laws. Several "laws" are added through hadeeth and sunna. The law can be found in Qur'aan
And here it is...Read verse 3 and 4. My quote ended up being about spoils of war, and yours is about back biting and what was said between wives that the prophet was made aware of. So both example don't prove either one of our arguments )
No both practices were likely to have been practiced before the prophet, and then just continued when he died, and ascribed to him. But this is my oppinion, not a fact.
But if that were the case, why would Salaat and Hajj be mentioned in the Qur'an? Not only that, the Salaat and Hajj of the Kuffar is mentioned to be meaningless because it was flawed and the prophet cleansed it. Hence he practiced it in his own life. Wouldn't God have said to cease this practice completely? No. In fact the opposite is what we find. Yes those practices were there, just as the Kaaba was there, all as remnants of the faith/practice that Ismael and Ibrahim taught the nomads as they settled Mecca. And later obviously it became a site of pilgrimmage to pagan idols because the worship of the One God was lost in the sands of time, as has happened so many times before. This may not be Quranic fact, but if the Quran doesn't mention the presence of Sharks in the sea, does that mean they don't exist? )
You know, in my family we have always cut of the end of the roast of thrown that out. Everybody did this, and told that is because how grandmom did hers, and it was wonderfull.
So i asked grandmom, why? And she told me, well actually its from my mother, out pot was not big enough for the roast so we had to cut off the end. So here we have a ritual that all abide by in the belief that it does something to the quality of the meal, when in fact the explanation was really simple and streight forward.Very good example, and i can see how that can happen with religion. But i totally disagree that it has happned in Islam. We can clearly see how it's happened for the People of the Book because even they cannot trace most of their rituals to Isa or Musa or whoever they claim to follow. Our prophet lived in the full light of history and the chain of PRACTICE (forget Hadith for now) is unbroken since.
There have been many Quranite sects and yet none of them had successfully argued their point, wouldn't God have led them to victory and made His Deen foremost amongst all other beliefs had they been correct? As He promised? No. In fact mainstream Islam fits that profile.
Yes, as seen on the succes it wields in the world. Im not buying that for a minute. He altso tells us that if we follow THE MAJORITY, we will be wrong.
But doesn't the Qur'an say that if we follow God we will be successful in THIS world AND the NEXT? Fine when you talk about the majority, but the majority of what? Humankind? Then Muslims are not a majority. And i think that verse is more appropriate when seen in light of what was happening in Mecca, instructing the early Muslims and reassuring them when they were a tiny minority.
See what i mean? Without a basis or a standard, we can fit the Qur'an into any argument we want.
Nor do i believe its up to anyone to interpret the Qur'an...
Then why give it to us? why not just give us the explanation you belive is from the Prophet? and spare the paper of Qur'aan?
Don't go to the other extreme of Hadith Only. Obviously the Qur'an is peace for the hearts of men, and in it is great wisdom and we're still discovering the meanings of many verses that were considered metaphorical back in the day, so the Book itself is timeless. But on specifics and in matters of daily lives, the life of the prophet is a clear example.
We are intelligent enough to see who Allah (swt) is hinting by studying the life of the Holy Prophet (pbuh) and the four Khulafa-e-Rashideen.
There is no clergy in Islam. That is true. So what is an Imam? An imam is appointed or given status by others to one who has reached a high level of Islamic knowledge and one who has enough knowledge and wisdom to lead the Muslims.
But only if he follow the path that you yourself do right?
The paths to Allah are as numerous as the numbers of breaths on Earth. - Ali.
And before thee also the messengers We sent were but men, to whom We granted inspiration if ye realise this not, ask of those who possess the Message.
The Arabic term here is "AhlaDhikr".. i.e. "those who remember" or "those who know" i.e. those who learn the history and keep knowledge preserved.
Also, we read
If they had referred it to the Messenger and to those of authority among them, then those of them whose task it is to find it out would have known the matter"
So who are they, do you reckon?
I don't know yet, but it certainly isn't a freeminder at this point )
so when a person comes to me and says "i think" or "in my opinion" in regards to the Quran..thats the height of arrogance.
I find it more arrogant to claim that God cannot communicate a book to his servants that they can understand and use as a practical tool in their lifes. But we can easily understand 50.000 pages of story's written by saintly schoolars. It just doesnt fly...
If it's that easy to understand on a personal basis, where is the full analysis of the Book? Of every part of it to be used in everyday life? What about all the details of daily life? Ya it can probably be all summed up by the 10 commandments even, but that hardly suffices in our day and age.
Thank you for agreeing with us all. Because that is what you do right here. This is why the socalled Quranic movements may appear not to be succesfull. No, they are not succesfull as cults, that is true. But as personal enlightenment they are very.
Perhaps yes. But then why would the Qur'an call us the best community to ever rise up from mankind, if its only working on a personal enlightenment basis. This is starting to smell like new-ageism....
You are entitled to your oppinion. I disagree though.
Great ) Respect rocks.
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In Muhammad (PBUH)'s last year (11AH) he emphasised that there were twelve months in that year and after. This means the previous year had the intercalary 1st month which used to be called Nasi and that some people believed his last year should also have 13 months. What probably happened was that his announcement was misunderstood and the next year without him around they simply continue the 12 lunar month system every year repeated again year after year. People were probably unsure whether or not they should insert the intercalary month until after 6 years, in the month of Shabban, Caliph Omar decided the 12 lunar month system which they had been following since the death of Muhammad (PBUH) should become official and unchangeable. Traditionally the fact that a man owed him money on a certain date in shabban tipped the scales, and acknowledgement that there had been two intercalary months would have meant waiting another two months for the debt to be repaid.
Omar also decided that the year of the migration 11 years before Muhammad (PBUH)'s death should be the first year. He remembered the day Muhammad arrived in Medina as Monday 8th of Rabi when the 1st of Muharram was (the new year) began on a Thursday. There was no calculation involved other than Muhammad (PBUH) died 6 years ago. 11 years before that was the year of the migration. Therefore the current year was 17 years since the migration, so 1 muharram 17 years ago should be the start of the AH system.
If the year before Muhammad (PBUH) died was the intercalary month then by the time Omar made his decision 2 intercalary months had probebly passed. If on the other hand anyone believes thaty it would be the year after Muhammad (PBUH) died that was supposed to include the intercalary month then still by the time Omar made his decision only 2 intercalary months would have been lost. So all we have to do to pinpoint Ramadhan in the last year of Muhammad (PBUH) is to push the date Ramadan occurred in 17AH forward by two lunar months. Simple!
Not at all surprisingly, the answer we arrive at is that the Islamic 9th month Ramadaan corresponds exactly with the 9th Jewish month Kislev -always has, always will. Thus the 1st of Muharram corresponds exactly with the 1st of Nissan. This by the way is no new discovery at all. Any retrocalculation software will tell you that in 632AD the year Muhammad (PBUH) died Ramadaan began around 22 Nov.
The day Muhammad arrived in Medina on Monday 8th of Rabi (1) in the year when the 1st of Muharram (new year's day) was on a Thursday was the 27th of May 622AD. Because this is the only year that 1 Nissan which we have already established was the 1st of Muharram was on a Thursday (Thursday the 21st of March 622AD which also happened to be the spring equinox).
It is all very simple mathematics really and does not need elaborate Quranic exegesis to establish the date. You could have asked any Sufi.
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Salaam all!
I started out liking this idea about the calendar,but the more I Read the replies Im against it.......- Quran says---12 months,correct?,with no mention of a intercalery month,to add one would be to add to what Allah has stated,and the Quran is Complete..
- There is to much contraversy as to when to begin the yr,if its a certain time or date then the Quran has to say so,for Allah has left nothing out.Therefore if its not mentioned then there is no rule to set the exact date.If we try to then that would be saying Allah left something out that is relevent.
So by reason there is no reason to accept another way besides what is generally accepted..So No real need for change on this subject,imo...
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Peace Hamza,
i don't know if you've read the whole threads. There is a lot of stuff to ingest and for sure a lot of controversy. But , even though fasting with the rest of the "muslim" world might be ok, the calendar is purely manmade and for sure not one initiated in the times of the prophet, but after his death, by Kalif Omar.
lk
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Peace Hamza,
i don't know if you've read the whole threads. There is a lot of stuff to ingest and for sure a lot of controversy. But , even though fasting with the rest of the "muslim" world might be ok, the calendar is purely manmade and for sure not one initiated in the times of the prophet, but after his death, by Kalif Omar.
lk
Peace Elke,
Yes I read the entire thread and just got through reading the article on FM/PM site again,and most of it seems reasonable,but The Sufi made some better arguments for the the beginning of Muharam and when Ramadan is..Because Ramadan suggests an autumn month like the FM/PM article says,therfore it makes since that Ramadan would fall in Nov/Dec..since Winter doesnt begin until Dec 21st in the Northern Hemisphere.Beginning the yr in Autumn like the article says doesnt make since based on the fact that would put Ramadan in Apr-May in the spring and not autumn like the name Ramadan implies..
So I agree with the view that if the calendar is to be a fixed one then the new year would began at the spring equinox at the same time that Allah led the Isralites out of Egypt.And Ramadan(an autumn month) would fall in Nov-Dec.,the last month of Autumn. -
Preocupation with when the intercalary month should occur is something the Quran seems to be against. The year divides very naturally into 4 equal quarters with the two equinoxes and two solstices. Even without the sun and the moon these quaters exist because they are stellar phenomena. There are 12 moths in Allah(SWT)'s reckoning, so each quater must naturally have 3 months. We are not told that new moons are for the beginnings of the months, but that the new moons are for the beginnings of festivals (in the 12 months). So the new moon of the last third of the autumn quater (21 Sept-21Dec) whether it be near the beginning of that last third, or near the end, was clearly when Ramadan began, every year until the death of Muhammad (SAW).
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I just read on here http//www.eretzyisroel.org/~jkatz/The%20Islamic%20Jewish%20Calendar.pdf that Ramadan means heat,if thats true then Ramadan means the month of heat not autumn and falls in line with it being in Apr/May and Muharram being in Aug/Sept corresponding with the Hebrew New Year of Rosh Hashanna.
? ? ?And what about
"And who would abandon the creed of Abraham except one who fools himself? We have selected him in this world, and in the Hereafter he is of the righteous." (2130)
Its a well known fact that Abraham kept the Hebrew calendar and Muhammad adopted Ros e Ashura(Yom Kippur) which falls in the Hebrew month of Tishri(Sept/Oct),so Muharram should be the same as Tishri.
So the Islamic year of 1427 would begin on Sept 22nd this yr the same day that the Hebrew festival of Rosh Hashana is on..
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Fine, except it goes against the historical fact that Ramadaan coincided with Chislev in the last year that The Prophet (PBUH) was alive when he declared the absence of the intercaliary month. Thus up until this year (632) Ramadaan would have naturally coincided with Chislev every year.
BTW Chislev is also the month of burning for the festival of lights.
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Fine, except it goes against the historical fact that Ramadaan coincided with Chislev in the last year that The Prophet (PBUH) was alive when he declared the absence of the intercaliary month. Thus up until this year (632) Ramadaan would have naturally coincided with Chislev every year.
BTW Chislev is also the month of burning for the festival of lights.
I see what your saying but didnt Muhammad adopt Ashura which falls on Muharram 10,and the yr that he adopted it was the same date as the Jewish Yom Kippur which always falls on the 10th day of the Jewish month of Tishri (usually late September or early October)?This would place Muharram in Sept/Oct not Mar/Apr,which Muharram would fall if Ramadan is in Nov/Dec...which Chislev always falls????
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Maybe Im missing something but where in the Quran does it say we have to use lunar timeing to determine months,I know the Hebrews did it that way but,no where in the Judeo Scriptures that I can recall does it say they should determine months by the new moon.It does say that the sun and moon and stars where created for signs of the seasons and years though..
What Im asking is where in the Quran does it specifically say to determine months by the moon alone?It does say that we should use the Sun and the Moon..
"And We made the night and the day as two signs, so We erased the sign of night and We made the sign of day to see-in, that you may seek bounty from your Lord,and that you may know the number of the years and the count. And everything We have detailed completely." (1712)
Here's Khalifa's version
We rendered the night and the day two signs. We made the night dark, and the day lighted, that you may seek provisions from your Lord therein. This also establishes for you a timing system, and the means of calculation. We thus explain everything in detail.
So we are to use the sun and the moon to determine the yrs.
By using the sun and the moon as our guides,we would have a calendar with 12 months and have no need for an extra month like the Jews have encountered..But we might still have to add an extra day every four yrs to one of the months..
Or we could simply begin yrs at the fall equinox and have some months having 31 days and some months having 30 days..You would have a 365 calendar every yr...then if for some reason we need to add or remove an extra day in the future that I may have over looked then it can be done to one of the months..Unless theres a Surah that says we have to begin months on the new moon or a moon...and have 30 & 29 days.
2189 says They are but signs to mark fixed periods of time in (the affairs of) men, and for Pilgrimage
1025 says He it is Who appointed the sun a splendour and the moon a light, and measured for her stages, that ye might know the number of the years, and the reckoning. Allah created not (all) that save in truth. He detaileth the revelations for people who have knowledge
937 speaks of postponing a sacred/prohibited month;Verily the transposing (of a prohibited month) is an addition to Unbelief the Unbelievers are led to wrong thereby for they make it lawful one year, and forbidden another year, in order to adjust the number of months forbidden by God and make such forbidden ones lawful. The evil of their course seems pleasing to them. But God guideth not those who reject Faith.
Nothing about the starting of months on the new moon..not unless you read into it what you wish..
- Muharram; 31
- Safar;30
- Rabi`a I/Rabi al-Awal;30
- Rabi`a II/Rabi al-Thanni;31
- Jumada I/Jumada al-Awal;30
- Jumada II/Jumada al-Thanni;31
- Rajab al Murajjab;30
- Sha`ban;30
- Ramadan;31
- Shawwal al-Mukarram;30
- Dhul al Qida;31
- Dhul Hijja;30