Pilgrimage Poll
-
Peace to all,
Asfandyar, i dont believe anything about a specific place, i said they both sound reasonable, i would be hesitant to goto mecca as a Quran aloner though cause I could be harmed if anyone knew, as far as Jeruselam, hey that sounds good too, I know the Quran does mention a specific place but im not expert enough in arabic or Islamic history to tell you where that means, im sure God will accept our pilgrimage anywhere we go and meet as long as we do the good deeds also as Aalmakto pointed out. If we decide that its Jeruselum then lets do it, where at specifically, and when, and what will we do when we are there?
Kurt
-
Peace all,
I should clarify I am not 100% sure about Jerusalem but I am leaning towards it. I have a travel guide to Jerusalem and basically-Everyone must have a passport that is valid for at least six months.
-Europeans, North Americans, Australians and New Zealanders (it is a bit racist) can all enter Israel without a Visa - Please check as I am just typing what I read.
-Most other nations need a visa and must obtain them in advanced from an Israeli consulate in their home country. This visa is usually 3 months but can be extended.
-Note that if you have an Israeli visa in your passport you may be barred from entry into certain Arab Countries notably Syria and Lebanon, but not Egypt or Jordan. You can avoid this by asking at the airport that the visa be stamped on a seperate piece of paper.
-English is very much a second language and all signs are bilingual.
This guide also has information on Airports, transport, Banking/Currency, Communications/Telephones. but it is a bit premature to be discussing this.
-
I am for Jerusalem, and obvioulsy, I am for a physical pilgrimage to be held as per the Quranic instructions
for a few days.I too am for a physical pilgrimage. However, I believe that every year, within the restricted months, mankind (not just Muslims) must get together for debate and discussion. I believe that those who are Muslim must also perform physical pilgrimage to Bakkah - Jerusalem and fulfill the duties set out in the Qur'an (Commemorating Allah, and to peform an animal sacrifice so to thank Allah for His blessings and to feed the hungry and the poor).
-
Peace youll,
I belive Mecca, Im still studyin this thoe.
Ishmael was the son of Abraham by his wifes maid, Hagar. She was driven away from the household when sarahs taunting became unbearable ( Genesis 16 ). God promised that Ishmaels descendants would make a great nation also and Arabs generally trace their ancestry back to him.The Quran states that " Abraham and Ismail built the Kaba ( the house of God in Mecca) as the house of God." This was long before the Temple in Jerusalem was built.
Mr.Wallace
-
I for one think the most obvious choice would be Mecca - since that is where Mohammed started out. But since the Saudis are such nit-pickers in terms of who is/is not Muslim - why not Jerusalem? That city is held in high regards. And if Jerusalem is not financially feasable - why not then a pre-arranged place in the vicinity of where the people live. Maybe rent out a famous hall-for-hire, give it ambience of Mecca or Jerusalem, and call it The Reformed Hajj?
-
I for one think the most obvious choice would be Mecca - since that is where Mohammed started out. But since the Saudis are such nit-pickers in terms of who is/is not Muslim - why not Jerusalem? That city is held in high regards. And if Jerusalem is not financially feasable - why not then a pre-arranged place in the vicinity of where the people live. Maybe rent out a famous hall-for-hire, give it ambience of Mecca or Jerusalem, and call it The Reformed Hajj?
Now who will vote on God Behalf? &
-
peace be upon you,
since Abraham build the Kaaba, and Jerusalem did not exist before Abraham, and there is no Kaaba (Cube) in Jerusalem,
then we must go to Mecca! -
peace be upon you,
The knolls of Safa and Marwah are among the rites decreed by GOD. Anyone who observes Hajj or `Umrah commits no error by traversing the distance between them. If one volunteers more righteous works, then GOD is Appreciative, Omniscient.
there is no place called Safa or Marwah in Jerusalem,
you cannot ignore the word of GOD!
-
peace be upon you,
You commit no error by seeking provisions from your Lord (through commerce). When you file from `Arafaat, you shall commemorate GOD at the Sacred Location (of Muzdalifah). You shall commemorate Him for guiding you; before this, you had gone astray
there is no Arafaat in Jerusalem
GOD has appointed the Ka`bah, the Sacred Masjid,* to be a sanctuary for the people, and also the Sacred Months, the offerings (to the Sacred Masjid), and the garlands marking them. You should know that GOD knows everything in the heavens and the earth, and that GOD is Omniscient
there is no Kaaba in Jerusalem
-
Haj or Pilgrimage is the constant visiting of your own house with keenness about the household holding a fast hold on to your God endowed deepest wish and will in the heart with faith and patience i.e., keeping God with you all the time. This view has been revealed to me from chapter 10 87 and the chapter 106, Al Quraish.
.
-
Peace Submitter,
GOD has appointed the Ka`bah, the Sacred Masjid,* to be a sanctuary for the people, and also the Sacred Months, the offerings (to the Sacred Masjid), and the garlands marking them. You should know that GOD knows everything in the heavens and the earth, and that GOD is Omniscient
there is no Kaaba in Jerusalem
This is a mistranslation, and many translators have intentionally mistranslated this passage to lead others astray... The Arabic word "kaaba" means ankle, and the passage says that God appointed the "kaabata" (ankles, corners); the word "cube" is a mistranslation. Also, the word "sacred masjid" is incorrect. The words used are "albayta alharaama", meaning literally 'the house of the forbidden'. The word "sanctuary" is not used here either; rather, it implies the word standing (or stance), meaning a position for the people... The next words used are "alshahra alharaama" (the month of the forbidden). What is interesting here is the used of the word "shahr", meaning month (some say it means "full moon", indicating singularity (one month); it's not plural. So, a more correct literal translation would be
God made the ankles the house of the forbidden (or 'the forbidden house', a stance for the people, and the month of the forbidden (or 'the forbidden month' and the guidelines ("alhadya" and the indicators ("alqalaa'-ida" so you know that God knows what is in the heavens and what is in the earth, and God is knowledgeable of all things.
Here's an interesting discussion on this topic
http//mentalbondageinthenameofgod.wordpress.com/2009/01/07/kabata-ankles-become-gods-house/Even if you disagree with the concepts relayed in the article, you should at least check it out, and weigh it against your current understanding. For me, the article was an eye-opener...
Peace,
Ahmad
-
Peace Submitter,
This is a mistranslation, and many translators have intentionally mistranslated this passage to lead others astray... The Arabic word "kaaba" means ankle, and the passage says that God appointed the "kaabata" (ankles, corners); the word "cube" is a mistranslation. Also, the word "sacred masjid" is incorrect. The words used are "albayta alharaama", meaning literally 'the house of the forbidden'. The word "sanctuary" is not used here either; rather, it implies the word standing (or stance), meaning a position for the people... The next words used are "alshahra alharaama" (the month of the forbidden). What is interesting here is the used of the word "shahr", meaning month (some say it means "full moon", indicating singularity (one month); it's not plural. So, a more correct literal translation would be
God made the ankles the house of the forbidden (or 'the forbidden house', a stance for the people, and the month of the forbidden (or 'the forbidden month' and the guidelines ("alhadya" and the indicators ("alqalaa'-ida" so you know that God knows what is in the heavens and what is in the earth, and God is knowledgeable of all things.
I thought kaaba meant house/place/base....?Here's an interesting discussion on this topic
http//mentalbondageinthenameofgod.wordpress.com/2009/01/07/kabata-ankles-become-gods-house/Even if you disagree with the concepts relayed in the article, you should at least check it out, and weigh it against your current understanding. For me, the article was an eye-opener...
Peace,
Ahmad
-
Peace Wakas,
Re 597
I recommend the following thread
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9837.0I looked through the topic you posted, but it contains the same inconsistencies as in this thread. None of the Quranic translators have translated the common Arabic word "kaaba" (in this case kaabata), which literally means "ankles". It doesn't have any references to a stone cube or anything like this. For the passage to mention the "kaabata" (ankles) alongside the concept of standing (or a stance), it can't be coincidental. The ankles do, in fact, play a major role in standing and balancing the body... What's your take on the translators rendering the word "kaaba" as a stone cube?
Peace,
Ahmad
-
peace,
Peace Wakas,
I looked through the topic you posted, but it contains the same inconsistencies as in this thread. None of the Quranic translators have translated the common Arabic word "kaaba" (in this case kaabata), which literally means "ankles". It doesn't have any references to a stone cube or anything like this. For the passage to mention the "kaabata" (ankles) alongside the concept of standing (or a stance), it can't be coincidental. The ankles do, in fact, play a major role in standing and balancing the body... What's your take on the translators rendering the word "kaaba" as a stone cube?
First of all, when I post a link to a thread, if I do not provide a comment along with the link, then it is for background reading. For example, I did not say "this link will clear up the inconsistancies brought up" or such like. I am simply providing extra information for consideration.
As far as my Quran studies go, there is no evidence for "kaaba" to mean a stone cube. The key point I was trying to highlight in the thread I referenced was the use of "qiyaman". A true rendering of this word and 597 completely destroys the traditional understanding and, in my view, that is why there is so much inconsistancy when it comes to translations of this verse.
-
Peace,
As far as my Quran studies go, there is no evidence for "kaaba" to mean a stone cube. The key point I was trying to highlight in the thread I referenced was the use of "qiyaman". A true rendering of this word and 597 completely destroys the traditional understanding and, in my view, that is why there is so much inconsistancy when it comes to translations of this verse.
Oh, okay... I partially agree with your understanding of "qiyaaman", even though it's mostly used in the reading to refer to physical standing... But this ties right into the word "kaaba". If "qiyaaman" is referring to a physical stance, then the base of it would be the ankles ("kaabata", right? So, it's possible that this passage is not talking about 'pilgrimage' at all; rather, based on the remained of the chapter, it seems to be talking about hunting... I guess "qiyaaman" could be referring to a form of organization or management, though, depending on the interpretation of the translator... Concerning the inconsistencies in this verse by other translators, I think this is because nobody translates the words "kaabata" and "albayta alharaam" correctly, and all the translators have a preconceived idea that the "kaaba" is referring to a stone cube in Mekka. Therefore, the "qiyaaman" has to be a sanctuary or a place of security, or even a set standard in a designated place... If they had no preconceived notions, they'd probably translate it correctly, and it would make sense...
Peace,
Ahmad
-
peace AB,
Let me again clarify the point I was making
"Allah made the ka'aba , (which is ) albayta alharama a qiyaaman for people. (He also made) alshshahra alharama, alhadya and alqala-ida (qiyaaman)
Thus, whatever meaning you choose for "qiyaman" for "ka'aba" you must also use the same meaning for albayta alharama, alshshahra alharama, alhadya, alqala-ida.
I hope this helps in your studies.
-
submittertoGOD- GOD has appointed the Ka`bah, the Sacred Masjid,* to be a sanctuary for the people, and also the Sacred Months, the offerings (to the Sacred Masjid), and the garlands marking them. You should know that GOD knows everything in the heavens and the earth, and that GOD is Omniscient
Drawing from 2196 & 835, I have been of the view that al-masjid al-haraam is the land surrounding the kaaba (al-bayt al-haraam). I guess I need to look into this some more.
ma'a salaam.
God bless all.
al'hamd li Allaah Rabb al'aalameen
-
peace be upon you,
The knolls of Safa and Marwah are among the rites decreed by GOD. Anyone who observes Hajj or `Umrah commits no error by traversing the distance between them. If one volunteers more righteous works, then GOD is Appreciative, Omniscient.
there is no place called Safa or Marwah in Jerusalem,
you cannot ignore the word of GOD!
This.
Safa and Marwah are signs for the believer. Surah 2158
Peace and blessings.
-
peace be upon you,
You commit no error by seeking provisions from your Lord (through commerce). When you file from `Arafaat, you shall commemorate GOD at the Sacred Location (of Muzdalifah). You shall commemorate Him for guiding you; before this, you had gone astray
there is no Arafaat in Jerusalem
GOD has appointed the Ka`bah, the Sacred Masjid,* to be a sanctuary for the people, and also the Sacred Months, the offerings (to the Sacred Masjid), and the garlands marking them. You should know that GOD knows everything in the heavens and the earth, and that GOD is Omniscient
there is no Kaaba in Jerusalem
Peace, submitter,
What Quran do you read? My Yusif Ali and Maulana Ali translations have Surah 597 as Sacred House, Bayt Al-Haraam, not Sacred Mosque, Masjid Al-Haram. As well my brothers-in-faith from Yemen translate this Surah as well as Sacred House, not Sacred Mosque.
Surah 2225,29,33, 396, 171
Masjid Al-Haram surrounds the Kaaba.
I'm looking forward to your response.
Peace and blessings.
