The 5 stages of a Muslim turning Quran Aloner
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- Questioning of sharia laws (but not of rituals and hadith)
- Questioning of hadith (but not of rituals)
- Questioning of rituals (but not of existence of those rituals, merely a revision of them)
- Questioning of the very existence of rituals (including Mecca itself)
- Questioning the existence of historical personalities (like nabis and rasul).
More or less what I went through except 1 and 2 happened at the same time and I never went through number 5
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Obsession with superficial (and false) historic details about the prophets such as how they looked and what they wore, etc. is the typical Sunni attitude (also was the attitude of Dr. Khalifa as evidenced by his dream). Ayman
Ayman
Your allergy, your ignorance and arrogance, which are in continual competition with each other, against "one of the greatest" signs leads you to take every opportunity to smear a brave monotheist. Rashad was never obsessed about such frivolous details and his books and speeches out there as witnesses. He was critical of these obsessions long before you woke up. If I share my dream with someone and describe what I saw in my dream with some details, if that makes me obsessed, then you are hundred times obsessed with Rashad Khalifa.
Don't you have a sense of decency?
Peace,
Edip -
Ayman
Your allergy, your ignorance and arrogance, which are in continual competition with each other, against "one of the greatest" signs leads you to take every opportunity to smear a brave monotheist. Rashad was never obsessed about such frivolous details and his books and speeches out there as witnesses. He was critical of these obsessions long before you woke up. If I share my dream with someone and describe what I saw in my dream with some details, if that makes me obsessed, then you are hundred times obsessed with Rashad Khalifa.
Don't you have a sense of decency?
Peace,
Edipyea, First it takes hold of your mind. Then it takes over your life and you see it everywhere
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;attach=1463;type=avatar
and then &
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ElUBr6-GLU
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Peace,
Basically, it means the different stages a Muslim who turns to the "Quran Alone" view goes though on their journey of increasing knowledge/discovery, with stage 5 being the highest level
- Questioning of sharia laws (but not of rituals and hadith)
- Questioning of hadith (but not of rituals)
- Questioning of rituals (but not of existence of those rituals, merely a revision of them)
- Questioning of the very existence of rituals (including Mecca itself)
- Questioning the existence of historical personalities (like nabis and rasul).
You may recognise some of the stages in yourself.
None of the above;
- questioned existence of the universe
- deduced everything came about from nothing
- read the Qur?an
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=AzjTKOlZp-I
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yea, First it takes hold of your mind. Then it takes over your life and you see it everywhere
Interesting... If a single lady bug displaying your allergen on its back transforms into "EVERYWHERE" in your mind, then your allergy and phobia is severe. As for 23, it is a movie based on lies and deception, like most movies.
Lady bug, your life, everywhere, and 23? Try again to connect the dots ;D
PS Joke aside, I know that cute bug is not a real lady; it really bugs those who are arrogant innumerate or ingrate
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Interesting... If a single lady bug displaying your allergen on its back transforms into "EVERYWHERE" in your mind, then your allergy and phobia is severe. As for 23, it is a movie based on lies and deception, like most movies.
Lady bug, your life, everywhere, and 23? Try again to connect the dots ;D
PS Joke aside, I know that cute bug is not a real lady; it really bugs those who are arrogant innumerate or ingrate
...and code-19 is not about lies and deception as can be seen that Edip and his messenger didn't hide any of the failed trials and shared them all! bravo
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Peace
Fortunately for me I never came into contact with Hadith, I went straight to the source, So I did not inherit the culture, historical influence of the Stories when investigating devotion to God alone.
Peace,
Respectfully.Same here. I never had hadith books but only The Quran. Later i would read some of the hadiths but they were not only boring but suspicious as they came contradicting The Quran, hence i ditch them.
Peace.
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the historic prophet Mohamed personality is the one given by the books of history of Tabari and Ibn Hisham as well as the numerous Hadith books where he has a beard, wears a short garment, stones monkeys, etc. This "historical" personality never really existed. Obsession with superficial (and false) historic details about the prophets such as how they looked and what they wore, etc. is the typical Sunni attitude (also was the attitude of Dr. Khalifa as evidenced by his dream).
Peace everyone,
I agree. Any preoccupation with the superficial aspects of this low life (money, power, fame, looks, lusts, shiny things, etc.) is the result of not appreciating the god for who the god really is.
You will not long for shiny golden temples or polished black stones for starring at, visiting, spinning around, venerating, kissing and prostrating to/towards if you appreciate that the god is everywhere ( ه and no visions encompass him ( ر. You will not be bothered if conscientious believers - men and women from around the world - assemble in an abandoned warehouse, or even an open field, so long as they assemble for the service of the god. You will not limit the government of the god to any physical location, especially not one in Saudi Arabia - one of the least peaceful and secure places on earth. If we were discussing following the reading alone in so-called Mecca we would be arrested.
47.2. Those who had faith and worked corrective measures and had faith in what was descended to Muhammad/the-praiser, which is the truth from their lord, he erased from them their misdeeds and corrected their condition.
It doesn't matter what lands Muhammad stepped on or what his body looked like. The reading he delivered is what matters.
As for Khalifa, he represents nothing short of false reform. He kept all the traditions with some minor modifications, and he did indeed base his life's work (in maintaining senseless traditions) on a vision he had
During my Hajj pilgrimage to Mecca, and before sunrise on Tuesday, Zul-Hijjah 3, 1391, December 21, 1971, I, Rashad Khalifa, the soul, the real person, not the body, was taken to some place in the universe where I was introduced to all the prophets as God's Messenger of the Covenant.
What I witnessed, in sharp consciousness, was that I was sitting still, while the prophets, one by one, came towards me, looked at my face, then nodded their heads. God showed them to me as they had looked in this world, attired in their respective mode of dress. There was an atmosphere of great awe, joy, and respect.
Except for Abraham, none of the prophets was identified to me. I knew that all the prophets were there, including Moses, Jesus, Muhammad, Aaron, David, Noah, and the rest. I believe that the reason for revealing Abraham's identity was that I asked about him. I was taken aback by the strong resemblance he had with my own family - myself, my father, my uncles. It was the only time that I wondered, "Who is this prophet who looks like my relatives?" The answer came "Abraham." No language was spoken. All communication was done mentally.
In this vision (of his mind, not reality) he was not unable to speak. In fact, he was able to ask a question. Instead of asking how to serve the god, he asked about the "appearance of Ibrahim". He should have been asking for forgiveness, for he had traveled all the way from Egypt to stare at, spin around, venerate and prostrate to/towards stone
http//img25.imageshack.us/img25/70/kabahghilaaf.jpg
Note that the keyword is "preoccupied" - we must not be preoccupied with superficial things. For example, there is nothing wrong with liking a building, so long as you appreciate it as a gift from the god, you know that it has no value at the god in the end time (yawm al-akhir), and you do not think it will in itself bring you closer to the god. But there is absolutely nothing to like about the so-called Kaabah in so-called Mecca; it's a symbol of goddess worship
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9598169.msg239716#msg239716
Peace,
-David R. S. Aitken
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Those who are introduced to Quran alone by witnessing "one of the greatest signs" (7430-37), skip some and follow some additional steps. But again any generalization will have problems and ranking will be controversial. An atheist can easily add a few more steps.
Though I disagree with your step 3 and 4, yet I find the step 5 completely ridiculous. Any person who could reach to such a step, in my opinion, has lost touch with reality and has problem with rudimentary principles of common sense.
Peace,
Edipbravo bravo
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Ayman
Your allergy, your ignorance and arrogance, which are in continual competition with each other, against "one of the greatest" signs leads you to take every opportunity to smear a brave monotheist. Rashad was never obsessed about such frivolous details and his books and speeches out there as witnesses. He was critical of these obsessions long before you woke up. If I share my dream with someone and describe what I saw in my dream with some details, if that makes me obsessed, then you are hundred times obsessed with Rashad Khalifa.
Don't you have a sense of decency?
Peace,
EdipSee my reply here in the appropriate forum section
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9600417.0
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questioning is prohibited ;D
It has been narrated through Abu Hurairah that one day, a man came to the Holy Prophet to ask him a question. Unfortunately the man did not know enough tafseer and he did not read Sahih Bukhari, nor was he learned in the fiqh. So the Holy Prophet told the man "bugger off mate, you know nothing, don't come back to me until you have consulted an Islamic Scholar".
People need to be a bit more open minded. There is absolutely nothing wrong with questioning anything and everything. This way there is no room for any "Holy Ulema" to bullshit anyone. It is a fundamental truth of this reality that no honest observers will ever disagree. That is to say that if you measure something to be a metre long, then a trillion trillion trillion trillion people can come along and not a single one will say anything to the contrary, that is quite the testimony! So is there a problem with questioning if something is a metre long? No. Yet two "Muslims" will argue over a single hadeeth.
This extends to essentially everything and it is self-evident that there is NO ROOM for blind faith or belief in reality, what one can do is only rely on the truth that they know and based on that, make a calculated guess as to what is probably the truth. This is a reasonable form of faith. Remember however that it is a CALCULATED guess, you update the calculations each and every time new information appears at hand. This also means that atheism and many other things could be considered "islam" for a determined period if in a person's subjective reality that is the only logical explanation (ref at bottom).
When you lie, you don't decieve reality, you decieve yourself and a bunch of gullible idiots who lack the ability to question your bullshit. Reality is not something to be fucked with and distorted and no amount of self-appointed Guardians Of Allah is ever going to be able to change that. And of course, it is promised by the all-hearing that your very own bullshit will be questioned in the end, by the most authoritative questioner of them all. I can imagine it now, God almighty asks a hadeethist what the hell he was playing at and there comes the response "You're not qualified to judge, sorry, go speak to a scholar".
How is it that people can know of messengers with grey beards from 1500 years ago so well that they can kill others for challenging their concept yet they only popped out of their mother's vaginas in this century and had their perception of reality clearly shaped by those around them, of whom the same applied? Ironically the quran curses this very mode of thinking at every chance it gets.
In fact I'd say there are two steps for a muslim by birth (all of us, it is self evident in the meaning of the term) to stay a muslim by birth (one who submits to the will of the sole omnipotent force)
1.) Questioning
2.) Go to Step 1
548 And We have revealed to you the Book with the truth, verifying what is before it of the Book and a guardian over it, therefore judge between them by what Allah has revealed, and do not follow their low desires (to turn away) from the truth that has come to you; for every one of you did We appoint a law and a way, and if Allah had pleased He would have made you (all) a single people, but that He might try you in what He gave you, therefore strive with one another to hasten to virtuous deeds; to Allah is your return, of all (of you), so He will let you know that in which you differed;
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In fact I'd say there are two steps for a muslim by birth (all of us, it is self evident in the meaning of the term) to stay a muslim by birth (one who submits to the will of the sole omnipotent force)
Agree... everyone is a muslim by birth, his/her society turns him/her into a sunni, shiites, muhammedans, christians, judaism, hinduism etc..
1.) Questioning
2.) Go to Step 1
That's why nearly every 'religious' / 'sectarian' folks is always at odd with 'scientific method' / 'scientific community', as
- What really fascinating about science is the question and not the answer.
- A scientist is not a person who gives the right answers, but he's the one who asks the right questions.
- Most religious institutions demand unqualified faith; but the institution of science makes skepticism a virtue.
Salam / Peace