Who are the people of the book?
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Peace all,
I have noted the following
This can not be in Torah, because David came after the Torah was revealed; moreover God would never accept David if he did something like that; and if he did, God would have never mentioned it.That's correct. This is in the section of the bible referred to as the Writings ....a part of the Tanakh. It was not part of commandments it is a history.
This is not the Bible of Jesus that we were asked to believe in because
At that time, when John 19 were written, Jesus was not on
Earth; thus, this is the writting of a person who saw the CrucifictionArnab, please note that we were asked to believe in what was revealed to Jesus (the Writtings of Jesus = the Bible)
You are correct. Perhaps I wasn't clear enough about this in my post. This is what they THOUGHT they saw. It is a detail of what they THOUGHT occured. This is not commandments etc.
Salam,
Arnab -
That's correct. This is in the section of the bible referred to as the Writings ....a part of the Tanakh. It was not part of commandments it is a history.
You are correct. Perhaps I wasn't clear enough about this in my post. This is what they THOUGHT they saw. It is a detail of what they THOUGHT occured. This is not commandments etc.
Salam,
ArnabThat is Arnab who I know, a Humbled Believer. sun
Arnab, your honest debate and others will always lead us to the Truth; why? Because God will lead the people who are seeking the truth to the right path, if they are willing to accept that they can be wrong sometimes.
May God Bless you, and everybody.peace
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Please note that we were asked to believe in what was revealed to Jesus (the Writtings of Jesus = the Bible)
Peace.
This is incorrect, brother. Esa (Jesus) never wrote ANY PORTION of the Bible, not one book. Al-Qur'an emphasizes that "books" were SENT DOWN to all of the prophets (i.e. Ibraheem, Mousa, Dawud, Esa, Mohammed, etc.), and this is what we are commanded to believe in, the true Scripture from God. However, the "New Testament" of the Bible was not "sent down" to any of them, and none of those writers were called "prophets" in al-Qur'an, NOT ONE... If Esa was a human-prophet, which al-Qur'an upholds, how could he give the details of his death? By the time those Biblical books were written, Esa had been dead for years! These books do not make up the Injeel that al-Qur'an was referring to, they are opinionated sketches of Esa's life and ministry, written by his direct followers ("apostles" and others not so - Luke was never even an apostle of Esa, he was said to be a physician. Most of the remainder of the "New Testament" was written by Paul ("Saul", a man who never even met Esa...
This is in the section of the bible referred to as the Writings ....a part of the Tanakh. It was not part of commandments it is a history.
Where are we instructed by God to follow the complete "Tanakh"? This wasn't part of the Light that God sent down to His messengers. We are commanded to uphold the Torah that God sent down to Mousa, so where do we get this "statute book"? We are reminded of it in al-Qur'an... Most of the Tanakh was written by men - there's really no disputing that. Esa, according to the Bible, said he believed in "the Law (Torah) and the Prophets (Nevi'im)" - this does not include the "Writings" (Ketuvim) that is contained in both the the Jewish and Christian Scriptures. Esa spoke about the Jews using man-made innovations, beliefs that, according to many scholars (not saying they're correct) are based on the Ketuvim. The only Scripture from the Ketuvim that al-Qur'an confirms is the "Psalms" - none of the others are supported in God's message to Mohammed...
Peace,
Ahmad
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That's correct. This is in the section of the bible referred to as the Writings ....a part of the Tanakh. It was not part of commandments it is a history.
Salam,
ArnabSalaam Arnab,
Thank you so much for explaining this, I can see the passages differently now and would come back with my renewed understanding insha?allah.
I have this feeling that something has been missing/cause to be forgotten in this writing of history.
Also I must apologise for being blunt in my last post, I hope I did not cause any offence as that was not my intention.Best of regards
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That is Arnab who I know, a Humbled Believer. sun
Arnab, your honest debate and others will always lead us to the Truth; why? Because God will lead the people who are seeking the truth to the right path, if they are willing to accept that they can be wrong sometimes.
May God Bless you, and everybody.peace
Salaam belalhammadts
Its only recently that I had known Arnab and I am impressed with her humility God bless her
handshake
May God Bless you, and everybody -
Salaam Arnab,
Thank you so much for explaining this, I can see the passages differently now and would come back with my renewed understanding insha?allah.
I have this feeling that something has been missing/cause to be forgotten in this writing of history.
Also I must apologise for being blunt in my last post, I hope I did not cause any offence as that was not my intention.Best of regards
Salam farida,
Thank you for your kind comments.
I don't take offense to others voicing their opinions and you have no need to apologize.
It is likely that we will agree on some points and disagree on others it's all part of exploring the scriptures.
And it is also likely that we will be passionate about our disagreements.
LOL Its just part of the journey.
group
Salam,
Arnab -
Peace.
This is incorrect, brother. Esa (Jesus) never wrote ANY PORTION of the Bible, not one book.
Peace,
We are ordered to believe in what was revealed to Jesus, as we were ordered to believe in what was revealed to Mohamed and Moses. Thus, any writting that were written after there death are not part of the Book; and that is what I meant.
Peace -
Peace.
This is incorrect, brother. Esa (Jesus) never wrote ANY PORTION of the Bible, not one book. Al-Qur'an emphasizes that "books" were SENT DOWN to all of the prophets (i.e. Ibraheem, Mousa, Dawud, Esa, Mohammed, etc.), and this is what we are commanded to believe in, the true Scripture from God. However, the "New Testament" of the Bible was not "sent down" to any of them, and none of those writers were called "prophets" in al-Qur'an, NOT ONE... If Esa was a human-prophet, which al-Qur'an upholds, how could he give the details of his death? By the time those Biblical books were written, Esa had been dead for years! These books do not make up the Injeel that al-Qur'an was referring to, they are opinionated sketches of Esa's life and ministry, written by his direct followers ("apostles" and others not so - Luke was never even an apostle of Esa, he was said to be a physician. Most of the remainder of the "New Testament" was written by Paul ("Saul", a man who never even met Esa...
I disagree Jesus was given the word of God and the word of God is protected so The words of Jesus are protected in Matthew, Mark, Luke and John
Salam,
Arnab -
Peace,
We are ordered to believe in what was revealed to Jesus, as we were ordered to believe in what was revealed to Mohamed and Moses. Thus, any writting that were written after there death are not part of the Book; and that is what I meant.
PeacePeace.
I agree with this. In al-Qur'an, it tells us to believe in the Scripture that was sent down to all the prophets - this includes Esa, since he was definately one of the prophets. According to the Scripture, the Injeel was sent down to Esa while he was alive, and this is what we are to believe in. Prophets other than Mousa and Mohammed are recorded as receiving a Scripture as well - Ibraheem, Noah, Dawud, Isaac, Ismail, and others are also spoken of in al-Qur'an as receiving a divine message from God, and we're told you believe in all these divine books, some of which are lost. So, what book do you think was al-Qur'an referring to that was sent down to Esa? You are definately correct about writings after his death - there's no way these can be included in the message that was sent down to him. That's why I don't completely accept the writings of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John as being authentic or divine Scripture from God...
Jesus was given the word of God and the word of God is protected so The words of Jesus are protected in Matthew, Mark, Luke and John.
This may be true to an extent, possibly... So, you believe Esa never received his own divine message to bring to the people? There are many other books written by some of Esa's followers that were never included in the Bible cannon we have today, and they provide personal sketches of Esa's life and ministry. What do you think of these books?
Peace,
Ahmad
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I disagree Jesus was given the word of God and the word of God is protected so The words of Jesus are protected in Matthew, Mark, Luke and John
So, you believe Esa never received his own divine message to bring to the people?
I never said that.
I DO believe that Isa received his own divine message to bring to the people.
There are many other books written by some of Esa's followers that were never included in the Bible cannon we have today, and they provide personal sketches of Esa's life and ministry. What do you think of these books?
I think that some of them could be scripture. At this point I have not fully evaluated them to come to a conclusion. But, in The Gospel of Thomas is the story of Isa breathing into the clay birds. Just as we have in the Quran. So I would say that there is a very high possibility that some of the apocrypha is scripture.
Salam,
Arnab -
It is likely that we will agree on some points and disagree on others it's all part of exploring the scriptures.
group
Salam,
ArnabSalaam Arnab,
Of courseAnd it is also likely that we will be passionate about our disagreements.
Of course and, as I said above, I would Insha?allah come back with my renewed understanding that would mean an informative discussion on my view and views of other learned contributors and as a result we are bound to learn more according to our individual grasp of the truth.
I am still trying to reach my understanding of the passages I posted before and it may take longer as I have to think carefully after all we have linguists like yourself and Samia. For now I?ll say this much, although I don?t agree with the newcomer, Anders, on many issues I agreed with his passage ref
http//19.org/forum/index.php/t/7268/1240/Monotheists, in their zeal to profess their monotheism, have a very strong tendency to acknowledge only 2 intelligent parties, man and god. This causes them to think that anything that is too complicated for man to create MUST therefore originate from god.
This is nonsensical, for it over looks the 3rd party known by various names which I shall here refer to as Satan.
Satan is known to be far beyond the intelligence of man, and no one who considers the ongoing suffering on this planet can rationally deny that.
Rationally therefore, we can not conclude without further evidence that something found to be beyond the creative abilities of man must therefore originate from god.It could very well originate from Satan!...............andersI do believe all scripts, directly from God, are protected and Satan has been barred from inserting his input into them, but any Hadith or so called history(story/report/narration/statement/tale/) is told by historians and to think that Satan had no part in that would be a very easy ride for Adam.
LOL Its just part of the journey.
So as part of the journey we have a very difficult job to comb out, with a fine tooth comb, what appears to be wispers from Satan.
Those unto whom We gave the Scripture recognise it as they recognise their sons. Those who ruin their own souls will not believe.
peace
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Peace.
I agree with this. In al-Qur'an, it tells us to believe in the Scripture that was sent down to all the prophets - this includes Esa, since he was definately one of the prophets. According to the Scripture, the Injeel was sent down to Esa while he was alive, and this is what we are to believe in.
Peace all,
I agree; and as Arnab said and others, such teachings exist in many writtings. thus we have to accept only what the Quran confirms. But, we also have to understand that the Quran came to change some of the laws that were given in the Bible and the Torah (God made it more easier); Thus, some of the Bible and Torah Laws can be different from what in Quran, therefore, we can not say that such Laws are man made but we should thank God for changing it for us to a more easier ones.
PeacePeace
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Salam belal hammad. Stick to your CORRECT statement "we have to accept only what the Quran confirms" The Quran does not confirm that laws of the Bible were changed, the Quran does not confirm that god made it easier.
Allah is the lawgiver.
Never will the Jews or the Christians be satisfied with thee unless thou follow their form of religion. Say "The Guidance of Allah,-that is the (only) Guidance." Wert thou to follow their desires after the knowledge which hath reached thee, then wouldst thou find neither Protector nor helper against Allah
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Peace all,
I agree; and as Arnab said and others, such teachings exist in many writtings. thus we have to accept only what the Quran confirms. But, we also have to understand that the Quran came to change some of the laws that were given in the Bible and the Torah (God made it more easier); Thus, some of the Bible and Torah Laws can be different from what in Quran, therefore, we can not say that such Laws are man made but we should thank God for changing it for us to a more easier ones.
PeacePeace
Salaam belalhammad
16118 To the JEWS We prohibited such things as We have mentioned to thee before We did them no wrong, but they were used to doing wrong to themselves.
peace -
Salam belal hammad. Stick to your CORRECT statement "we have to accept only what the Quran confirms" The Quran does not confirm that laws of the Bible were changed, the Quran does not confirm that god made it easier.
Allah is the lawgiver.
Peace'
My answer isSalaam belalhammad
16118 To the JEWS We prohibited such things as We have mentioned to thee before We did them no wrong, but they were used to doing wrong to themselves.
peaceThanks
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I DO believe that Isa received his own divine message to bring to the people.
I think that some of them could be scripture. At this point I have not fully evaluated them to come to a conclusion. But, in The Gospel of Thomas is the story of Isa breathing into the clay birds. Just as we have in the Quran. So I would say that there is a very high possibility that some of the apocrypha is scripture.
Peace.
I can partially agree with this. I've read through a few of the apocrypha, and some of it is confirmed by al-Qur'an. I haven't gotten a chance to read all of it, though, but I'm definately trying to do so to determine what's accurate and what's not... Is the Gospel of Thomas the only book that confirms Esa breathing into the birds? Al-Qur'an mentions it repeatedly, so it must be an important act, and it's not even mentioned in the 4 books (M,M,L,J) we have in the Bible cannon of today...
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Salam belal hammad. Yes the Jews were prohibited the same things as Muslims are prohibited.
Peace,
Please forgive me, but you are very wrong.Here what God porhibited for the Jews
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For those who followed the Jewish Law, We forbade every (animal) with undivided hoof, and We forbade them the fat of the ox and the sheep, except what adheres to their backs or their entrails, or is mixed up with a bone this in recompense for their wilful disobedience for We are True (in Our ordinances). (6-146)
But for me I will say what God ordered prophet Mohamed to say
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Say "I find not in the Message received by me by inspiration any (meat) forbidden to be eaten by one who wishes to eat it, unless it be dead meat, or blood poured forth, or the flesh of swine for it is an abomination or what is impious, (meat) on which a name has been invoked, other than Allah's." But (even so) if a person is forced by necessity, without wilful disobedience nor transgressing due limits thy Lord is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. (6-145)
Peace