Who are the people of the book?
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Peace,
The word nafs can mean pride or desire. Qatala can mean to kill, curse, subdue or beat severely.
Godbless,
AnwarThe above plus, original meaning other than to kill to humiliate. It also means to treat someone as dead
Maqaaees-ul lugha dictionary of classical Arabc
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Peace,
Kill yourself or Kill any Self means Physical death and not Ego.
Why do we have to twist a Stright forward meaning in order to fit our own moral values or our cultural and socity value?
PeacePeace.
The Israelites weren't instructed to physically kill themselves. They were told to kill their ego/pride/desire. If you read the entire passage, you'll see that is says that The God forgave them, even though it didn't mention anything about them killing themselves. That obviously means that killing themselves (PHYSICALLY) wasn't necessary for them to attain God's mercy...
Peace.
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Peace.
The Israelites weren't instructed to physically kill themselves. They were told to kill their ego/pride/desire. If you read the entire passage, you'll see that is says that The God forgave them, even though it didn't mention anything about them killing themselves. That obviously means that killing themselves (PHYSICALLY) wasn't necessary for them to attain God's mercy...
Peace.
Peace,
What Ego has to do with worshiping Idle?And remember Moses said to his people "O my people! Ye have indeed wronged yourselves by your worship of the calf so turn (in repentance) to your Maker and slay yourselves; that will be better for you in the sight of your Maker." Then He turned toward you (in forgiveness); for He is Oft-returning Most Merciful. (2-54)
So, you are saying that because of their Ego, they worshiped the Calf; I do not see an Ego confused
Peace -
Peace,
What Ego has to do with worshiping Idle?And remember Moses said to his people "O my people! Ye have indeed wronged yourselves by your worship of the calf so turn (in repentance) to your Maker and slay yourselves; that will be better for you in the sight of your Maker." Then He turned toward you (in forgiveness); for He is Oft-returning Most Merciful. (2-54)
So, you are saying that because of their Ego, they worshiped the Calf; I do not see an Ego confused
PeaceIts true meaning is humiliation
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Peace,
What Ego has to do with worshiping Idle?And remember Moses said to his people "O my people! Ye have indeed wronged yourselves by your worship of the calf so turn (in repentance) to your Maker and slay yourselves; that will be better for you in the sight of your Maker." Then He turned toward you (in forgiveness); for He is Oft-returning Most Merciful. (2-54)
So, you are saying that because of their Ego, they worshiped the Calf; I do not see an Ego confused
PeaceThis was speaking of their desires, their inclination towards polytheism. They were commanded to slay/kill/eliminate these desires... In this same verse, it says
"...Turn to your Maker and kill yourselves. That will be better for you in the sight of your Maker. Then, He turned toward you, for He is most merciful." (al-Qur'an 254)
Here, it mentions The God forgiving them. It didn't say anything about them actually going through the process of killing themselves physically. It simply says that they received God's mercy after they repented from worshipping the idol. This implies that their repentence from this idolatry did not involve them physically killing themselves, it involved them turning away from the act, killing their desire to associate partners/idols with God.
Peace.
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Peace,
Imaatah/imaatatun means to cause someone to die, not to treat them as dead. Besides that, thanks Samia.
Godbless,
AnwarSalaam Anwar
I know that, and thank you for further clarifying what I already said, that " Kill and humiliate are the original meanings". To treat as dead is also a meaning (mentioned in the classical dictionaries).
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Peace,
Samia, how would you say 'to treat as dead', or better yet how do the dictionaries say that? Because to my knowledge that meaning is not communicated by the word Imaatah/Imaatatun, which was the word you seem to be using to refer to that idea. That is, according to your quote in Arabic.
The above plus, original meaning other than to kill to humiliate. It also means to treat someone as dead
I see humiliation idhlaalun, but I don't see 'to treat as dead', I just see Imaatah/Imaatatun.
Godbless,
Anwar -
Salam,
The followers of Moses are the Jews,
The followers of Jesus are the Christians,
The followers of Mohd are the Muslims,
These are the people of the book,
The same scriptures God gave Moses, Jesus and Mohd...of four scriptures ....these are the three.
It is said in the Quran, that other people will recognize the Quran as they recognize their own child, bcoz each prophet said above were given their own language scriptures.
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Peace,
Samia, how would you say 'to treat as dead', or better yet how do the dictionaries say that? Because to my knowledge that meaning is not communicated by the word Imaatah/Imaatatun, which was the word you seem to be using to refer to that idea. That is, according to your quote in Arabic.
I see humiliation idhlaalun, but I don't see 'to treat as dead', I just see Imaatah/Imaatatun.
Godbless,
Anwarimata is one of the meanings of qaf taa laam (as the entry of the classical dictionaries says and I quoted .
We are talking about "qatala", and imata is an explanation.
Here is where the dictionary says (to treat as dead).
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Salaam Alaikum
From a Quranic perspective People of the Book NOT 'Jews and Christians'
The People of The Book / Al Kitab are the 19 Prophets mentioned in Sura Al Anam 683 - 689
These were the men to whom We gave THE BOOK / Al Kitab, and authority, and prophethood. if these (their descendants) reject them, Behold! We shall entrust their charge to a new people who reject them not.
These Prophets were given The Book / Al Kitab, singular, ONE Book
Muhammed,as was given The Book / Al Kitab also....
To you (i.e. Muhammed) We sent The Book / Al Kitaba in truth, confirming WHAT IS BETWEEN YOUR TWO HANDS from Al Kitab
The Quran explains the details of The Book / Al Kitab....
And this Al-Quran / The Reading is not that can be produced from other than Allah, but it is a confirmation, that is between his two hands and the explanation / details of Al-kitab / The Book there is no doubt in it from the Lord of the worlds.
There are 33+ attributes of The Book / Al Kitab 'detailed' in the Quran in the following ayahs
2.185, 5.44, 3.3, 2.105, 11.96, 2.2, 53.4, 2.75, 6.104, 2.99, 85.21, 72.1, 5.15, 39.23, 12.3, 14.25, 3.138, 15.9, 7.145, 21.48, 2.99, 7.62, 3.44, 23.6, 98.2, 45.18, 9.49, 2.145, 10.35
'The Book' Al Kitab has NOTHING to do with Old Testament or New Testament Bible/Torah
Not all of them are alike. Of the People of the Book are a nation / ommatun that stand / in salat. They rehearse the Signs of Allah all night long, and they prostrate themselves in adoration.
Muslims in this ayah are being identified and confirmed as 'People of the Book'.
Jews and Christians are mentioned as 'reciting from The Book / Al Kitab'
And the Yahood/Jews say, ?That Nasara/Christians are not on anything.? And the Nasara/Christians say? that the Yahood/Jews are not on anything.? And both of them are reciting AL-KITAB/THE BOOK. Like unto their word is what those say who know not; but Allah will judge between them in their quarrel on the Day of Judgment.
Thus Muslims, Jews and Christians are reciting/referring from the guidance of Allah, but creating their own books
And when Allah took a covenant from the People of The Book, to make it known and clear to mankind, and not to hide it; but they threw it away behind their backs (teaching something else), and purchased with it some miserable gain! And vile was the bargain they made!
Say. "Have you seen (these) 'Partners' of yours whom you call upon besides Allah? Show Me what it is they have created in the (wide) earth. Or have they a share in the heavens? Or HAVE WE GIVEN THEM A BOOK FROM WHICH THEY (CAN DERIVE) CLEAR (EVIDENCE)?- NO / Bal, the wrong-doers promise each other nothing but delusions.
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As it relates to Sura Baqarah 254....
And remember Moses said to his people. "O my people! You have indeed wronged yourselves by your worship of the calf. So turn (in repentance) to your Originator, and slay yourselves / faoqtuloo anfusakum ; that will be better for you in the sight of your Maker." Then He turned towards you (in forgiveness). For He is Oft-Returning, Most Merciful.
faoqtuloo (1st person, singular, Imperfect Passive Verb, the subject (Mose's people) is the object of the verb)
Passive means a verb, or form of a verb, which expresses the effect of the action on the Subject of the verb, Not active, but acted upon; suffering or receiving impressions or INTERNAL influences
Its the 'slaying' or severing ties with idolatry within the 'soul', the spiritual body (anfusakum)
O you who believe! Eat not up your property among yourselves in vanities. But let there be amongst you Traffic and trade by mutual good-will. NOR KILL YOURSELVES / la taqtuloo anfusakum . for verily Allah has been to you Most Merciful!
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Peace,
I dont know if anyone here mentioned this before. But the argument that the Torah and Injeel are completly corrupt wouldnt be 100% true. I mean archeologicaly speaking we have the dead sea scrols which was before both jesus and muhammad. and what Torah do you think was used during the time of muhammad? How would those Jews find the truth and confirm if there wasnt truth in the Torah and Injeel at that time? I mean all we would need is to have versions that existed before muhammad was born then they would be valid enough to compare with the Quran right?
Peace
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Peace,
I dont know if anyone here mentioned this before. But the argument that the Torah and Injeel are completly corrupt wouldnt be 100% true. I mean archeologicaly speaking we have the dead sea scrols which was before both jesus and muhammad. and what Torah do you think was used during the time of muhammad? How would those Jews find the truth and confirm if there wasnt truth in the Torah and Injeel at that time? I mean all we would need is to have versions that existed before muhammad was born then they would be valid enough to compare with the Quran right?
Peace
Salam,
Well done Barmack
Salam,
Arnab -
Peace,
I dont know if anyone here mentioned this before. But the argument that the Torah and Injeel are completly corrupt wouldnt be 100% true. I mean archeologicaly speaking we have the dead sea scrols which was before both jesus and muhammad. and what Torah do you think was used during the time of muhammad? How would those Jews find the truth and confirm if there wasnt truth in the Torah and Injeel at that time? I mean all we would need is to have versions that existed before muhammad was born then they would be valid enough to compare with the Quran right?
Peace
Assalaam Alaikum
Dead Sea Scrolls are 'fragments'
Secondly, Muusa,as was inspired by Al Toori NOT by a Torah
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salam. allah commands the following
567
a very direct command from allah to deliver the following
538
a severe command from allah to observe the torah and the injeel , and a statement from allah that without the torah and injeel people stand on nothing.
and to those who deny the torah and injeel allah says
548
allah has said the book he has revealed is a guardian over what he has revealed before.
those who claim the torah and injeel are unguarded and not reliable dispute with allah.
allah is the posessor of power over all things.
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salam. allah commands the following
567
a very direct command from allah to deliver the following
538
a severe command from allah to observe the torah and the injeel , and a statement from allah that without the torah and injeel people stand on nothing.
and to those who deny the torah and injeel allah says
548
allah has said the book he has revealed is a guardian over what he has revealed before.
those who claim the torah and injeel are unguarded and not reliable dispute with allah.
allah is the posessor of power over all things.
Assalaam Alaikum
Its NOT 'Torah' that Muusa,as was given by Allah,swt it was 'Al Toori'......
There came to you Moses with clear (Signs); Yet you worshipped the calf (Even) after that, and you did behave wrongfully.
And remember We took your covenant and We raised above you of Mount / fawqakumu al-toora (Saying). "Hold firmly to what We have given you, and adhere / listen to the guidance / ismaAAoo ". They said." We hear, and we disobey." And they had to drink into their hearts (of the taint) of the calf because of their Faithlessness. Say. "Vile indeed are the behests of your Faith if you have any faith!"
Fawqa superior in rank, excellence, overcome surpass
toori manner, way of action, kind, class, limit, time(repeated action), stage, state
Dictionary of the Holy Quran page 345 (tara)And remember MOOSA/MOSES in AL-KITAB/THE BOOK, surely he was devout/sincere and a Messenger, Prophet.
Allah,swt continues in the next ayah.....
Wa nadaynahu min janibi al-toori al-aymani waqarrabnahu najiyyan
Janiba means one who is in a temporary state from submission and recognition of guidance; one who is being led or called to guidance or recognition
Dictionary of the Holy Quran page 102-103 (janaba)toori manner, way of action, kind, class, limit, time(repeated action), stage, state
Dictionary of the Holy Quran page 345 (tara)aymani; means trust, security, faithful, steadfast;Root word Amina meaning to trust, be secure, be in safety, confide in Related Forms Aimanun Right Hands, Oath; Aimana meaning Right, Blessed; Maimanah meaning People of the Right Hand, that are blessed; Hans Wehr Arabic English Dictionary 4th Ed. Page 35 (amuna); Dictionary of the Holy Quran Page 33 (Amina)
Those who claim 'Torah' is 'Al-Tawrat', you have another problem, 'Al-Toori'......
Which one is it? 'Al-Tawrat' or 'Al-Toori'?
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The word "Torah" in Hebrew "is derived from the root which in the hifil conjugation means "to teach" (cf. Lev. 1011). The meaning of the word is therefore "teaching," "doctrine," or "instruction"; the commonly accepted "law" gives a wrong impression."
Rabinowitz, Louis Isaac and Harvey, Warren. "Torah." Encyclopaedia Judaica. EdThe term "Torah" is therefore also used in the general sense to include both Judaism's written law and oral law, serving to encompass the entire spectrum of authoritative Jewish religious teachings throughout history, including the Mishnah, the Talmud, the Midrash and more, and the inaccurate rendering of "Torah" as "Law" may be an obstacle to "understanding the ideal that is summed up in the term talmud torah ( , "study of Torah,", characterized in Jewish tradition as excelling all things."
pp.164-165, Scherman, Exodus 1249
Moed Erubin 21b
"?.And furthermore, my son, be admonished of making many books. My son be more careful in the observance of the words of the Scribes than in the words of the Torah, for in the laws of the Torah there are positive and negative precepts, but, as to the laws of the Scribes whoever transgresses any of the enactments of the Scribes incurs the penalty of death."KOHELETH 1211-14
The words of the wise are as goads, and as nails well fastened are those that are composed in collections; they are given from one shepherd.
And furthermore, My son, be admonished of making many books there is no end; and much study is a weariness of the flesh.
The end of the matter, all having been heard fear G-d, and keep His commandments; for this is the whole man.
For G-d shall bring every work into the judgment concerning every hidden thing, whether it be good or whether it be evil."Isaiah 2913-15
And the L-rd said Forasmuch as this people draw near, and with their mouth and with their lips do honor Me, but have removed their heart far from Me, and their fear of Me is a commandment of men learned by rote (in writing);
Therefore, behold, I will again do a marvelous work among this people, even a marvelous work and a wonder; and the wisdom of their wise men shall perish, and the prudence of their prudent men shall be hid.
Woe unto them that seek deep to hide their counsel from the L-RD, and their works are in the dark, and they say 'Who seeth us? and who knoweth us?'
The 'Torah' has absolutely NOTHING to do with the Quran!