Why do you beleive the Quran to be the Word of GOD?
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I have never been looking for science in the Qur'an but on the other hand I have never expected either that the Qur'an says anything wrong from any point of view.
What Ahmed Bilal said about the mountains and that the Qur'an says wrong, quite differently, without looking for it I found that the Qur'an i9n fact does very clearly know what it says when it says that mountains are pegs, because that is exactly what they are and what in scientifical terms is called isostasy, mountains are anchored deep into the crust under the level of flat land just as much as they tower over it and that makes for stabilisation of the earth, not the planet earth, the earth.
Was this common knowledge at the time of rebelation of the Qur'an? I doubt it. They did not have means of knowing how deept the mountains bore underneath.
Salaam
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Peace Ahmed Bilal.
Continued...Quote from you
to the concept of ALLAH being responsible for all good and evil vs. ALLAH being only responsible for good and man being responsible for evil to who can be blamed for belief and disbelief, ALLAH or man . For the sake of argument, I won't post the statements made in ahadiyth concerning these passages (verses) being abrogated for other verses...Let us look at
4119
"I will mislead them, I will entice them, I will command them to (forbid the eating of certain meats by) marking the ears of livestock, and I will command them to distort the creation of God." Anyone who accepts the devil as a lord, instead of God, has incurred a profound loss.4120
He promises them and entices them; what the devil promises is no more than an illusion.In here brother, God is saying the majority of the believers will fall into Idolatry!!! And only themselves to blame? why?
Because it is your own decision who you follow. GOD or Satan? Everything that is not GOD s system is Satan s system!!
No one can blame another, GOD or others? Every one is given the faculties and the brain to check and make sure. How else can GOD try us? Who can come up with a better idea and still have justice?
And
1693
Had God willed, He could have made you one congregation. But He sends astray whoever chooses to go astray, and He guides whoever wishes to be guided.* You will surely be asked about everything you have done.GOD is saying here "you make your choice",It is up to you? What is your decision?
HE cannot be fairer than that!!! The fact that HE knows your decision is irrelevant.As for
478
Wherever you are, death will catch up with you, even if you live in formidable castles. When something good happens to them, they say, "This is from God," and when something bad afflicts them, they blame you. Say, "Everything comes from God." Why do these people misunderstand almost everything?479
Anything good that happens to you is from God, and anything bad that happens to you is from you. We have sent you as a messenger to the people,* and God suffices as witness.It simply means that nothing bad comes from GOD. Bad things are consequences of our own deeds!!
612
Say, "To whom belongs everything in the heavens and the earth?" Say, "To God." He has decreed that mercy is His attribute. He will surely summon you all on the Day of Resurrection, which is inevitable. The ones who lose their souls are those who disbelieve.GOD is not responsible for anyone. Everyone is only responsible for their own self. You win or you lose according to your own decisions and deeds.
Abrogation? I will continue in my next post GOD willing.GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Peace Ahmed Bilal.
Continued...
Abrogation of verses!!! A big contradiction . A big excuse . A big lie. A big blasphemy.
There is no abrogation to GOD s words? Only bad understanding that leads to bad translation. Woe to them for inventing such a lie?
This concept invented originally by scholars, claims that there are some verses in the Qoran that have been abrogated and invalidated by other verses!
The verse that is the abrogator they call (Al-Nasekh) while the abrogated verse they call (Al-Mansoukh).
These scholars have come up with hundreds of cases of abrogated verses to the extent that they have formulated a whole science of the subject filling lengthy books and references.
Although the concept was originally invented by Muslim scholars as a result of their poor understanding of the Qoran, yet it has been widely exploited by non-Muslim writers to tarnish the perfection and divinity of the book.
{111] A.L.R. This is a book whose verses have been perfected.
Although God asserts that the Qoran is perfect and harbours no contradictions, yet sadly these scholars have invented the greatest lie about the Qoran, claiming that there are verses in the Qoran that abrogate and invalidate other verses.
They base their claim on a corrupted interpretation of two verses
FIRST VERSE 2106
Whichever Ayah We relinquish or cause to be forgotten We replace it with its equal or with that which is greater, did you not know that God is capable of all things?"
What the interpreters claim is that this verse confirms that some Quranic verses are invalidated by others. They interpret ?Ayah? in this verse to mean a verse in the Quran.
However the word Ayah, as used in the Qoran, can have one of four different meanings
- It could mean a miracle from God as in
And We supported Moses with nine profound Ayah?s (miracles).
- It could also mean an example for people to take heed from as in
And the folk of Noah, when they disbelieved the messengers, We have drowned them and set an Ayah (example) of them for all people.
- The word ?Ayah can also mean a sign as in
He said, ?My Lord, give me an ?Ayah? (sign).? He said, ?Your Ayah is that you will not speak to people for three consecutive nights.
- It could mean a verse in the Quran, as in
This is a book that We have sent down to you that is sacred, perhaps they will reflect on its ?Ayat? (verses)."
Now if we consider verse 106 of Sura 2, we can easily spot that the word ?Ayah? in this particular verse could not mean a verse in the Quran. It can mean any of the other meanings (miracle, example or sign) but not a verse in the Quran. This is because of the following reasons
- The words "cause to be forgotten" could not be applicable if the word ?Ayah? in this verse meant a verse in the Quran. How can a verse in the Quran become forgotten? For even if the verse was invalidated by another (as the interpreters falsely claim) it will still be part of the Quran and thus could never be forgotten.
- The words "We replace it with its equal" would be meaningless if the word ?Ayah? in this verse meant a Quranic verse, simply because it would make no sense for God to invalidate one verse then replace it with one that is identical to it!
- If the word ?Ayah? in verse 106 meant a miracle an example or a sign, then all the words of the verse would make perfect sense. The words "cause to be forgotten" can apply to all three meanings and that is what actually happens with the passing of time. The miracles of Moses and Jesus have long been forgotten. We only believe in them because they are mentioned in the Quran.
Similarly the words "We replace with its equal or with that which is greater" is in line with the miracles of God. God indeed replaces one miracle with its equal or with one that is greater than it. Consider the following verse
And We have sent Moses with Our Ayah?s (miracles or signs) to Pharaoh and his elders proclaiming ?I am a messenger from the Lord of the universe?. When he brought them our Ayah?s they laughed at him. Every Ayah We showed them was greater than the one that preceded it." 4346-48
SECOND VERSE 1610
When We substitute one Ayat (revelation) in place of another, and God is fully aware of what He reveals, they say, 'You made this up'. Indeed most of them do not know"
The substitution spoken of here is concerned with one of two things
- The substitution of one Scripture in place of another.
- The substitution of one verse or law within a Scripture with another in a subsequent Scripture
The first meaning is given evidence to in the following verse
Then we revealed to you this scripture, truthfully, confirming previous scriptures, and superseding them.
Here, the words "superseding them." confirm that the previous scripture were substituted with the Qoran.
The second meaning is also given evidence to in the Qoran where various issues that were prohibited to the previous people of the book were made lawful in the Qoran.
As an example, we are told in 2187 that sexual intercourse between married couples during the nights of the fasting month was made lawful, while it was prohibited previously.
We are also told in 6146 that God prohibited for the Jews all animals with undivided hoofs; and of the cattle and sheep the fat was prohibited. These were made lawful in the Qoran.
This verse 16101 does not speak about the substitution of one verse in the Qoran with another.
The evidence to that is given within the same verse (16101) The key to the meaning of the verse lies in the words
"........they say, 'You made this up"
Here we must stop and ask, who is likely to tell the messenger "You made this up" ? and why? For sure it cannot be his followers, his followers are not likely to tell him
"You have made it up"................it has to be those who do not believe in him, which focuses on the followers of previous scripture who feared that their scripture was in danger of being "substituted" with the Qoran............
What more evidence to that more than the fact that till this day, the Jews and Christians accuse Muhammad that he fabricated the Qoran himself! If this accusation is from the Jews and Christians we must then ask, are they accusing Muhammad of substituting one verse in the Qoran with another? The Jews and Christians do not care if one verse in the Qoran is substituted for another, after all they do not believe in the whole book............. they will not complain that one verse in the Qoran is being substituted with another! However, and if their Scripture is being substituted by the Qoran, they will immediately accuse the messenger that the Scripture he brings (Qoran) is not from God but that he "made it up" himself.
These glorious words "You have made it up" indeed stand as true indicator from God Almighty that the substitution spoken of in this verse is not related to one within the Qoran, but indeed a substitution between two scripture.
As mentioned before, the substitution of the previous scripture with the Qoran is confirmed in 548
As a result of the corruption of the meaning of 2106 and 16101, and the claim that some Qoranic verses invalidate other verses, the interpreters have demonstrated their failure to uphold two main characteristics of the Qoran, those being that the Qoran is perfect and harbours no contradictions (111) and also that the words of God are unchangeable (1064).
It is well worth inquiring here into the motive behind the interpreters corruption of the meaning of 2106 and 16101. Hadith is the main culprit. Actually hadith is behind all the misunderstanding, contradictions and corruption of GOD s words.
Qoran is without contradiction, without nonsense,without faults. The words of GOD are perfect.
GOD bless you.
Peace -
Peace, hawk99.
Where I live the sun rises between the dwellings and sets in the park. Brother Ahmed Bilal, if you are looking for
guidance it is in Quran, if you are looking for errors (excuses) you will find them too!This is actually EXACTLY what I was talking about! As I mentioned previously, I personally DO believe that the Qur'aan is the Word of ALLAH (God). However, many others don't. And, even when it comes to those who do, they generally only accept the Qur'aan as being authentic due to
- It supporting their preexistent beliefs, usually stemming from beliefs they maintained in Judaism and/or Christianity.
- Supposed scientific "miracles" being contained in the text.
- An alleged "miracle" of '19' (as proposed by Dr. Rashad Khalifa), insisting that the Qur'aan contains a 'code' for the believers.
- Their Islamic (whether traditional or otherwise) upbringing, generally due to parental influence or geographical location.
- Their belief that Muhammad was the "Lord of the Prophets" (as stated by ahadiyth) and that they must comply with whatever he said.
There are a few other reasons as well, but those are usually the ones I come across.
The problems with these perspectives are various, and they usually don't stem from the actual Qur'aan at all. For example
- The Qur'aan, contrary to popular opinion, does not support or authenticate Judaism or Christianity at all.
- The supposed scientific "miracles" in the Qur'aan are usually very questionable, and they're typically generated by people 'picking and choosing' which words support their arguments and preconceived notions concerning specific ideas. In reality, the Qur'aan contains many statements that others view as being scientific fallacies.
- The "code 19" is often used to support an ideal similar to numerology, rather than supporting the actual text and ideology promoted in the Qur'aan. (NOTE It wasn't always this way, but this is ultimately what it's turned into in the modern "Submitters" organization, particularly after the death of Dr. Khalifa.)
- Upbringing and geographical location have nothing to do with what the Qur'aan says.
- The idea of Muhammad being the "Lord of the Prophets" is never conveyed in the Qur'aan, nor are the hadiyths promoted (or even supported) in the actual text of the Book.
The skeptics are oftentimes closer to the Truth of the Qur'aan than many of the believers are!
Again, I'm not trying to 'disprove' the Qur'aan in any way. In fact, I'm an avid supporter of it. We just need to be aware of why we're choosing to turn to the Qur'aan as a form of Divine guidance, as well as what we're actually taking (e.g. applying) from it. Otherwise, we're like 'donkeys carrying a load of books'! ALLAH guides whom He chooses to a straight path.
Peace,
Ahmad
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Peace brother Ahmad Bilal,
Glad to see your faith return. And that you keep your critical approach to interpretation.
God bless you
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Peace Ahmed Bilal.
Thank you for your clarification.
I also agree.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Peace Ahmad Bilal,
Being cautious about practices and beliefs that you consider to be "outside"of what the Sustainer has prescribed
for us, is a good approach. Also, the status of others, who you consider astray, is nothing new and will remain
a part of everyday life.God bless
peace
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Peace, Man of Faith.
Glad to see your faith return. And that you keep your critical approach to interpretation.
Thank you, sir! It's been a long journey for me, and I feel like I'm right where I need to be. ALLAH guides who He chooses to a straight path, and I just hope that He continues to guide me on my journey.
Of course, there's always the chance that I'm "led astray" right now too - ALLAH knows best. We're all works in progress.
Peace to you, brother.
Ahmad
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Peace brother Ahmad,
It is good that you have always been critical in your approach to "religion". I would urge you to mostly be suspicious of what people say though and their interpretation of things and do not doubt the ancient Arabic of the so-called Quran (too much).
But, do always remain on your guard despite the exceptional clarity of that recitation of alleged Muhammad which was written down/reorded on parchment (or similar) because some people seem to, when they put it together, to have inserted verse numbering and other things such as diacritical marks. And there may be insertions of words or perhaps even an extra marker with a pen to add a letter to a word etc too because I have got that feeling. In some instances the numbers are causing to split a clause into two even if it belongs to its parent clause I have noticed while learning Arabic.
Just that about verse numbering etc is a sign that it was not the physical book that God promised to protect but the actual decree.
Despite your lack of faith you seemed to never lose your faith completely because you had doubts. I understand that the pathetic impression by those who advocate traditionalism cause you think God is just an invented phenomenon. I would unlearn what you have learned and then just reflect upon existence and perhaps distance yourself from the Quran you know and regard all interpretations available with suspicion.
When I did so I realized Quran is not a book full of rules at all but does not teach much at all but is merely a relief to people that God is really for real. If people know the famous ten commandments and socalled law of Moses, torah/instruction and some inspiration by the works of Jesus then they know what needs to be known and no hocus pocus. And have faith and be a good person.
God bless you
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Peace, hawk99.
Being cautious about practices and beliefs that you consider to be "outside"of what the Sustainer has prescribed
for us, is a good approach. Also, the status of others, who you consider astray, is nothing new and will remain
a part of everyday life.Agreed... However, throughout the course of time, I've noticed that many of us tend to be very skeptical when it comes to everyone's religious beliefs and practices except our own. The Qur'aan instructs us many times to use knowledge and reason to determine the Truth of any ideological ideals, including the ones outlined in the Book itself. In fact, it even insists (implicitly) that, although the Qur'aan guides some people to ALLAH, it also guides some people away from Him. That's why it's important for us to maintain a degree of skepticism (e.g. caution, or even doubt) concerning what we read and study, especially in connection to the modern ideology of "Islam".
"And if you obey most of those on the Earth, they will lead you away from the path of ALLAH. That is because they follow conjecture, and they only guess (or speculate)."
Peace,
Ahmad
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Peace Ahmad,
We have to accept the practices of faith of others, but we can still inform them of what is right if we know better. There is nothing wrong in it. It seems as if messengers of old did so too.
But we should do no more than inform them then we must be peaceful to them and behave in the best manner and stand by our faith. There is no need to force people to adhere to your ways as long as it is not to force them to stop oppression and mischief.
I think native Americans (Indians), for example, have faith in God but they divide the entity that is God into different spirits. I think they regard nature to be God, which is in fact true in a way. Their practice does not neccessarily have to be shirk.
We have to learn to understand others.
God bless you
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I think native Americans (Indians), for example, have faith in God but they divide the entity that is God into different spirits.
Bold But, whether this act is correct?
Do they really have faith in God?
Looks like they're choosing particular animal as patron/secret helper?
I think they regard nature to be God, which is in fact true in a way.
True in a way? Would you kindly explain, brother?
Their practice does not neccessarily have to be shirk.
How about their habit using small objects which they consider special, such as carrying "amulet" to provide good fortune and to protect from harm?
Thank you.
Salm.
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Peace JavaLatte,
How about their habit using small objects which they consider special, such as carrying "amulet" to provide good fortune and to protect from harm?
That is shirk, but is Muhammad not shirk too or the falsehood circulating around him? They are no better or worse than the other.
True in a way? Would you kindly explain, brother?
Because the animals and nature are closer to God than we are. And they do not really possess any free will or consciousness as we do so they are in closer bond with the energy that is God.
I admire Indians respect for nature and the system of life and their often calm nature, but surely there are hypocrites everywhere. You have probably seen much bad reputation about Indian faith as violent and vile but it is not all tribes.
Do they really have faith in God?
They are often "harmonized" in ways, and they tend to see that the animals can be exquisite channels towards God (they do not believe in God the way the monotheist Ibrahimic faiths do but they see God as a spirit among evil spirits) because of the power of the soul. They think a bit weird to an external viewer, but it may not be so "shirky" and I took the opportunity to study the phenomenon once while I could speak to a contact who knew much about Indian faith.
God bless you
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Peace, Man of Faith.
When I did so I realized Quran is not a book full of rules at all but does not teach much at all but is merely a relief to people that God is really for real. If people know the famous ten commandments and socalled law of Moses, torah/instruction and some inspiration by the works of Jesus then they know what needs to be known and no hocus pocus. And have faith and be a good person.
I agree with you to a large degree... However, I actually do believe that the Qur'aan teaches us many things. In fact, interestingly enough, I learn something new every time I read the Qur'aan! My problem was in HOW I was reading the Qur'aan. Over the course of time, I've come to understand that
- The Qur'aan is not a science book.
- The Qur'aan is not a philosophical anomaly.
- The Qur'aan is not a staple for Judaism and Christianity, and it does not "confirm" the Bible.
In fact, from my understanding, the "Tauraat" mentioned in the Qur'aan is NOT the Pentateuch (first five books of Moses), and the "Injeel" is NOT the Biblical gospels and so-called 'new testament' writings of Saul (e.g. Paul) of Tarsus. Understanding, whether correct or incorrect, is what led me to perceive the Qur'aan differently and begin reading it from a different point of view.
In this day and time, I don't think those "10 commandments" were actually authored by ALLAH (God), at least not in that fashion; and I don't think all of the Biblical stories and characterizations of Jesus in the four Biblical gospels are entirely accurate either. The Qur'aan greatly simplifies the concept of "peaceful submission" (or however else people choose to define 'islam' by saying that the general requirements for happiness and 'salvation' are for people to
- Believe in, or acknowledge, one Supreme Being, generally recognized as ALLAH in the Qur'aan;
- Believe in the "last day", or recognize that justice will be served to everyone equitably, whether good or bad; and
- Live righteous, peaceful and productive lives, generally in the pursuit of helping others.
Everything else is just commentary - elaboration on the points mentioned above.
Peace,
Ahmad
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I think Quran and all of the Books were the inspired word of God, meaning that the words were filtered through humans. This does not mean they are any less sacred. ALLAH/God is infinitely more radiant than what can be contained in the word that took many years to compile. The Book did not just fall out of the sky. His word needed to be comprehended by humanity, finite beings. Additionally, Quran states that it is 'a guidance', indicating that it is not the 'only guidance', in my humble opinion. This does not diminish its sacred relevance to humanity. I have a problem when some people read into Quran to assert that Islam is exclusive...A merciful and compassionate Allah, which is written at the heading of all but one or two Surrah, would never will his creation to experience eternal hellfire. Human will is not stronger than the will of Allah. Human frailties will never thwart the will of Allah for universal salvation of humanity. That would mean Shaitan has more power than Allah, let it never be so, to corrupt Allah's creation and claim them from Allah. Allah created the world and saw that it was good...and humanity is part of this world. Would a merciful and loving Allah hand over part of His creation to Shaitan for eternal punishment? No, because Allah is not a liar. Allah created the world and saw that it was good...Allah did not see that in was partially good. And so, I think interpretations of ayah have been corrupted. And most importantly, Allah is bigger than the Book. When we confine our knowledge of Allah to the Book, we ultimately commit idolatry and spiritual adultery.
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Peace,
And most importantly, Allah is bigger than the Book. When we confine our knowledge of Allah to the Book, we ultimately commit idolatry and spiritual adultery.
I see someone has understood something important. bravo
Have faith
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Peace, Nazrani.
I think Quran and all of the Books were the inspired word of God, meaning that the words were filtered through humans. This does not mean they are any less sacred.
If all of the books were inspired by God but filtered through humans, then how can any of them be held "sacred"? Doesn't this defeat the purpose of an "inspired" work? More specifically, if these people (e.g. prophets, messengers, scribes, exc.) received a specific inspiration from God, or at least what they believed to have come from God, but they interpreted and wrote these words according to their personal understandings and ideas, then how can these books be said to come from God at all?
I have a problem when some people read into Quran to assert that Islam is exclusive...
Actually, according to the Qur'aan, Islam (or submission to God) is the least "exclusive" of all of the predominant ideologies of time. The Qur'aan ultimately claims that anyone who (a) believes in one Divinity, (b) believes in a final day of judgment, and (3) practices righteousness earns a reward with God, being considered among the "muslimoon"/submitters. I haven't seen any other theological, monotheistic ideologies propose this idea, especially during the time in which the Qur'aan was written.
A merciful and compassionate Allah, which is written at the heading of all but one or two Surrah, would never will his creation to experience eternal hellfire.
That depends entirely on the perspective of the individual. It's best not to say things about ALLAH (God) unless we absolutely know them to be true and accurate. We can make our own interpretations of what God will do in the future, but we ultimately don't know. Some of His works and pronouncements are beyond our comprehension.
Allah created the world and saw that it was good...Allah did not see that in was partially good.
Where does the book say that ALLAH proclaimed the world to be "good"?
Peace,
Ahmad
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Actually, according to the Qur'aan, Islam (or submission to God) is the least "exclusive" of all of the predominant ideologies of time. The Qur'aan ultimately claims that anyone who (a) believes in one Divinity, (b) believes in a final day of judgment, and (3) practices righteousness earns a reward with God, being considered among the "muslimoon"/submitters. I haven't seen any other theological, monotheistic ideologies propose this idea, especially during the time in which the Qur'aan was written.
Peace Ahmad Bilal,
One of my initial attractions to Islam was it's inclusiveness as per Quran regardless of sectarian ideologies.
My question to you is as follows Previously you attributed the pejorative "Blind Faith" to others, and you now
claim to submit to the lord of the worlds yourself, Is your faith "blind" or is your arrival to faith based on
something else?God bless
peace